Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Cenizas]

I think I'm going to get eo4 now that it's on sale, what say you @Lavani?

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

:^)

Squall helps a lot of her bad MUs. Flare is a direct upgrade and so is strike.

Of course she improves but not by much compared to every other low tier like Palutena, Ganon, Doc, DK, etc. Flare is still Din's - it isn't amazing. Strike is great but doesn't improve her gameplan much. The loss of Wind makes it questionable of Squall is an upgrade. In a custom metagame, I fully expect Zelda to be the worst character

 

[LRodC]

So is there any use for Zelda's up Smash? It feels way too laggy and not powerful enough to justify it. The hitbox is also pretty weak on her sides. I sometimes use it to catch people that try to air dodge out of my down throw combos and that's about it.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Of course she improves but not by much compared to every other low tier like Palutena, Ganon, Doc, DK, etc. Flare is still Din's - it isn't amazing. Strike is great but doesn't improve her gameplan much. The loss of Wind makes it questionable of Squall is an upgrade. In a custom metagame, I fully expect Zelda to be the worst character

?

 

[Macchiato]

Of course she improves but not by much compared to every other low tier like Palutena, Ganon, Doc, DK, etc. Flare is still Din's - it isn't amazing. Strike is great but doesn't improve her gameplan much. The loss of Wind makes it questionable of Squall is an upgrade. In a custom metagame, I fully expect Zelda to be the worst character

Against Diddy ZSS and peach it's nearly impossible to get an elevator anyways.

Diddy - escapes Hoo hah and smashes.

Peach - escapes pressure

ZSS - limits her kill options severely

Her match ups with improve making her better overall.

 

[Berserker.]

I wasn't sure to challenge this myself. In a non-custom environment, you are right. Shulk's superior range will wall Kirby out. I will have to trick you in order to Inhale and get your power. Then from there its SKY HIGH BABY and Kirby becomes top tier!

I'd usually trust anyone's word with customs match up. From the sound of it, customs Kirby is nuts and Shulk's power exploits can't do much about what Kirby gains from customs. Sounds like Kirby's favor from the looks of it. Being able to get Shulk's ability easily is a game changer

Customs-off, I'm really not seeing it. You have to be really patient with Kirby to win it

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

?

Gets a guaranteed kill off of a fthrow/grab release at 50-60% at the ledge with cancer slash Crescent Slash and she can often recover from it

 

[LRodC]

Against Diddy ZSS and peach it's nearly impossible to get an elevator anyways.

Diddy - escapes Hoo hah and smashes.

Peach - escapes pressure

ZSS - limits her kill options severely

Her match ups with improve making her better overall.

And Sheik as well. If you land an elevator against her, you're either the master of hard reads or it's a bad player. May as well take the recovery and combo/pressure escape potential at that point.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Speed Buster Kirby's SH FF fair2>fsmash>upper cutter
Lawd that damage rack
Without buster that string does about 23% iirc

Gets a guaranteed kill off of a fthrow/grab release at 50-60% at the ledge with cancer slash Crescent Slash and she can often recover from it

Oh right I completely forgot about cancer slash lmao

 

[FullMoon]

It's funny, Ness used to be a "oh my god no" kind of MU to me but all of sudden it became a lot easier. I guess I just improved between the times I had to go against a Ness player.

That B-Throw is still dumb though.

 

[Kofu]

If I had to weaken Diddy I would lower the KBG on his UAir and slow it down (startup or cooldown is fine), weaken his FSmash, nerf FAir's range, and do something with UThrow.

Also @ Macchiato DK being low tier lol

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

I posted this in another thread, but I wanted to share this picture with you all

-removed cause reasons-

 

[Soul.]

Really unfortunate to see Brawl in a weird spot.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

@ KuroganeHammer what do you think about Sheik vs Diddy?

The general consensus now is that no one is even against Diddy

neutral or slightly diddy's favour

 

[NairWizard]

Really unfortunate to see Brawl in a weird spot.

I know this is evil, but I wish that Pikachu could still chaingrab Sheik.

Only Sheik, though.


Only Sheik.

 

[Soul.]

I know this is evil, but I wish that Pikachu could still chaingrab Sheik.

Only Sheik, though.


Only Sheik.

Chain grab Diddy pls

 

[FullMoon]

So it turns out that Greninja's D-Air beats Ness's PK Thunder 2

Still never going to try doing that again.

 

[Locke 06]

So it turns out that Greninja's D-Air beats Ness's PK Thunder 2

Still never going to try doing that again.

Kind looks like you got him while he ledge grabbed instead of while he was pkt2...ing

 

[FullMoon]

Kind looks like you got him while he ledge grabbed instead of while he was pkt2...ing

He hadn't grabbed the ledge before though so if he had grabbed the ledge then invicibility would've happened and I would've fallen to my death.

 

[Locke 06]

He hadn't grabbed the ledge before though so if he had grabbed the ledge then invicibility would've happened and I would've fallen to my death.

#1frameofvulnerability

 

[FullMoon]

#1frameofvulnerability

That's a thing? If that's what happened then I just did a frame perfect meteor, wow.

 

[Cenizas]

Greninja's dair is dumb. Like how the hell do you bounce off Villager's u-smash it's damn light.

 

[Soul.]

Greninja's DAir is what Toon Link's DAir should have been

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Greninja's DAir is what Toon Link's DAir should have been

Pls no, I have a friend that play since Melee and still love to spam Toon Link / ZSS and now Greninja Dair.

Seriously, Dair and Smash spam was his only Toon Link tactic in Brawl. It was awful.

 

[Soul.]

Pls no, I have a friend that play since Melee and still love to spam Toon Link / ZSS and now Greninja Dair.

Seriously, Dair and Smash spam was his only Toon Link tactic in Brawl. It was awful.

bouncing dair tho
i cri evertim

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

bouncing dair tho
i cri evertim

At least, there's still the windbox.

Also, about that friend, he absolutely hate playing against me. No wonder why as he almost only spam...

 

[PUK]

FG player are something. I just played a spam to win player.
ZSS: dash grab Dthrow up b. Some laser too
Ike: fsmash (actually this is the worst thing to spam)
Marth: fsmash too, never hit with the tipper
Lucario: aurasphere, i was playing Zelda, and killed him twice by reflecting his things.
And so it continues, really boring

 

[Cenizas]

The EO4 sale ended while I was out, even though it was still running this morning.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

FG player are something. I just played a spam to win player.
ZSS: dash grab Dthrow up b. Some laser too
Ike: fsmash (actually this is the worst thing to spam)
Marth: fsmash too, never hit with the tipper
Lucario: aurasphere, i was playing Zelda, and killed him twice by reflecting his things.
And so it continues, really boring

No Falcon? Weird. I thought it was Falcon Glory.

 

[Antonykun]

Pls no, I have a friend that play since Melee and still love to spam Toon Link / ZSS and now Greninja Dair.

Seriously, Dair and Smash spam was his only Toon Link tactic in Brawl. It was awful.

That sounded like me in early brawl (i was a pre-teen back then)

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Link's DAir is what Toon Link's DAir should have been

Fixed

 

[kenniky]

Everyone thinks customs can save Smash 4. No one knows.
Yes, they buff lower tier characters. Yes, they are this game's big thing. Yes, they make the game better as a spectator sport.
But then you have logistics. Complaints (), complaints and more complaints.

I mean Final Smashes were Brawl's big thing

Although Brawl died
uh

#LegalizeFinalSmash it will help Brawl metagame

MK is no longer op
Ice Climbers go to #1 due to iceberg shenanigans

Also, today I lost my 3DS stylus so I made a replacement:

Spoiler

/deardiary

 

[Soul.]

Ice Climbers go to #1 due to iceberg shenanigans

#neverstopclimbing

 

[warionumbah2]

Greninja's dair is dumb. Like how the hell do you bounce off Villager's u-smash it's damn light.

Because...ninja

 

[Tilk]

FG player are something. I just played a spam to win player.
ZSS: dash grab Dthrow up b. Some laser too
Ike: fsmash (actually this is the worst thing to spam)
Marth: fsmash too, never hit with the tipper
Lucario: aurasphere, i was playing Zelda, and killed him twice by reflecting his things.
And so it continues, really boring

ZSS DThrow is pretty repetitive, but can be varied in the air. I only ever upB out of it if I know for sure I'll get the kill.

Ike's FSmash.... Ike's FSmash... Smh

Actually whenever I run into a Lucario spammer I usually just go MM because I know they'll use counter. Then BAM. Right into the UTilt they go.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

That sounded like me in early brawl (i was a pre-teen back then)

Well, I think it's okay in this situation.
But as a 20+ years old guy, not so much.

 

[Brinzy]

@ Macchiato I was distracted with things, but now that I'm really looking at this list, I gotta question you.

Imo Zelda beats

kills far earlier than Zelda and can build easy damage just by running around her and constantly dropping bombs. It forces Zelda to shield, reflect, or try to pick up the items, which all basically lead into easy follow ups for him. This is especially true in this matchup because Zelda's so slow that the only way to punish him at times will be hard reads with Farore's.

Also Zelda gets destroyed by him in the air. Can't agree here.

literally does not have to approach. You say Zelda doesn't have to approach either - so one of us is lying. Bowser has godly OoS options and his jab sets up his grab very easily. Literally all Bowser should do is force Zelda above him or force Zelda to stay about a character length away. Zelda has absolutely no answers to Bowser when she is airborne, and Zelda's only reliable action on the ground is to grab, because if you hit his shield or roll he can get a free Up B on you at the very least.

This ignores the obvious factors, such as Bowser being stronger and heavier than Zelda and his general range advantage on her. The only time Zelda is able to actually deal with Bowser is when he's off stage.

I think is a slight disadvantage, but it's definitely easier than the other strong characters, because if he isn't in jab range Zelda has some decent options against him. It's less about the character and more about the player here, because Falcon doesn't have a lot of depth to him and has no tricks of any kind unique to him and not other fast characters.

isn't a real character.

's disadvantages to Zelda involve him doing things he has no business doing. For example, sure, Din's > Gordos for the most part, but why would he constantly throw these out and let Zelda get free Din's?

Instead, he should abuse his tilts, fair/bair, and grab to force Zelda to approach.

"But why does she approach"

Because he also has more range than Zelda, has an actual good projectile that can lead to easy traps or force an easy reaction, and has no reason to actually be right next to Zelda. At absolute best this matchup is even, but it's not in Zelda's favor.

... no. If Zelda doesn't beat Pit thanks to mere kill options, she doesn't magically beat someone else who supposedly has less kill options.

That only kill change is ftilt, which kills like 30% later. That singular difference does not mean Zelda beats Dark Pit. That's kinda a joke, actually. Zelda cannot fight him in CQC and Zelda cannot challenge his aerials. It's like a solid 6:4 matchup, and I've faced lots of Dark Pit players that I was able to beat easily on other characters. Even if Dark Pit can't sit back and lob arrows all day, he just has to be close enough to Zelda to the point where he can throw out attacks safely against her.

's downfall is his general lack of kill potential and reliance on his opponents being put in bad situations to get anything done. With that being said, the only time he should be running at Zelda is to punish something she whiffed or to follow up a combo. I have no earthly idea how Zelda wins this matchup. You can make an argument for even if you want, but the fact that Zelda is approaching in this matchup 100% of the time is bad news for her. Also, his Fsmash, as janky as it is, is pretty safe against Zelda, and the third hit (with the most reach) is the only one that matters for killing. Same thing in general with Dsmash.

loses if he's drunk I guess. Rather than explain why Falco wins this matchup, can you explain to me why you think Zelda wins?

baseline is even to in his favor. These characters thrive off of someone making a crucial mistake, but the main difference here is Ganon actually has much better tech chasing potential. Oh, and his uair is better than all five of Zelda's aerial's combined, so don't challenge him in the air unless he leaves himself wide open.

With customs it isn't even close to even. Dark Fists gives him a safe recovery that can potentially flat out kill Zelda. The aerial down B thingamajig is a strong punish to a lot of Zelda's attacks except her shield, which Ganon can answer to with Flame Choke. Also the neutral B with the sword can hit Zelda through Phantom Strike I'm pretty sure. The main saving grace is Zelda doesn't have to approach as much in this fight. I can't see how Ganon loses.

sux.

's recovery is easily gimpable, but earlier you said his kill moves are slow... did you forget about bair? Also Ike has a much, much better neutral game and plays footsies ton better than Zelda. I'm not gonna argue a disadvantage yet, but Zelda certainly does not beat him.

is pretty awful, yeah.

isn't a bad matchup by any means for Zelda. This one I could see her having a slight advantage if the Rob is impatient and doesn't know how to bait Nayru's. Honestly this matchup is very similar to the D3 matchup, which I think Zelda also doesn't win. I have not faced many in this game, though I have won against all the ones I did fight... but only over WiFi, so I'll just leave it alone.

I will agree with. There's just no reason to challenge Robin's strengths when Robin can't actually force Zelda to challenge them.

No. I don't care what happened on the Rosalina board. I refuse to believe a literal better version of Zelda loses to Zelda. That doesn't even make sense to me. Everytime this matchup has shown up in tourney among good players, the Rosalina won.

Why is Samus approaching? Not the worst matchup but Zelda does not 60:40 this on a good day.

just has to stand there sucking his thumb until you realize that you are never going to get him to run at you unsafely. This is literally a harder version of . Oh and if it's customs, you lose. Exploding balloons + counter tree + pocketing your silly Phantom Strike attempts = you're not winning this ever.

I guess Zelda wins against all of these opponents if it's friendly matches. In situations that actually matter, Zelda is far too easy to force an approach on and too slow to actually approach with. That last sentence will always remain true for Zelda at this rate and will always be why she's a bad character.

I have to go to lab for several hours, but I'll respond to anything later on.

I'm just gonna wait for @ Brinzy to make my new sig for me

Oh lord.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Today on FG
I went to time with this Sonic player
Spin2Win doesn't work when jab literally stops that and gives me a free uair or usmash
I could argue why Kirby beats Zelda but @Reserved will pop in eventually and say

 

[Soul.]

Because...ninja

is that Naruto? the weeaboo ninja?

 

[Antonykun]

IMO Zelda beats:

Explain now