Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Berserker.]

3 stocks is the way to go. Especially since rage is a thing, we really need 3 stocks. More time to adapt mid-match, and rage won't be as threatening. Just my opinion.

I'm interested to see Seagull Joe or Nairo's thoughts on the whole 3 stocks or 2 stocks debate.

 

[IsmaR]

My only purpose here is @Macchiato 's avatar called to me.

Cluck.

 

[FullMoon]

... I wonder if Shofu plays in Anther's Ladder because if nothing else I went against some guy in Anther's Ladder named shofu that played Fox and looking at shofu's twitter the guys Mii is identical to the photo he has in his twitter.

This is weird.

 

[Berserker.]

My painting skills are top notch

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

My painting skills are top notch
View attachment 44077

We are Sp00ky scary skeletons

 

[thehard]

To be brutally honest, this is the only thread where Seagull could voice his discontent with customs without getting **** all over with #adapt posts. I can understand the frustration, though I wouldn't have posted in the Impressions Thread when they just got done with bashing anti-custom people.

First impressions are key. He's never entered a thread with a post that explained his reasoning. Just clickbait stuff designed to annoy people ("Customs suck. Customs are dumb. Customs force timeouts. Customs are like items." [Real quotes!])

He'll go on to flesh out his argument somewhat but the damage has already been done in a sense. I was also pretty annoyed that he seemingly wrote off AA's Custom Project as a complete nothing, just because he doesn't like customs. So much work went into that, you know? It's disrespectful.

I've asked him to actually go out and "ruin" a tournament with "jank" customs but haven't gotten a response yet. I legitimately want to see it happen. He's a great player. Much better than me. But I can't shake the feeling his motivations for trying to stifle the custom movement are selfish, or otherwise. He says he doesn't even practice Smash 4- even if that's a joke, why should I take his posts seriously? It seems like he's trying to scare people more than anything, and trying to use recent showcased "jank" as his ammunition. (Even if this "jank" has been cut down to size by professional players who fought with it)

I like customs but I will NEVER downplay the feelings of someone who doesn't. Unless they have nothing useful to say. We've had veritable ESSAYS written for the pro-customs side (by active players). Essays that have shot down certain arguments before they were even written.

I don't have any real beef with Joe, and I don't want to make this thread about him, haha. I just hate all the recent knee-jerk attitudes and community semi-split.

 

[Locke 06]

Too much causalities. Several demoddings, bans, and such. It's not worth risking it.

I hope people understood I was joking. It's not worth it at all, but would be a hilarious sight for all the brooklyn 99 gifs and stuff in that thread. Definitely the Rosalina no fun gif.

We constantly go back 'n forth with this in SA. General consensus is:

-3 Stock is better for players.
-2 Stock is better for viewers.

We would only consider 2 stocks for time constraints.

8 minutes is a really long time to time someone out/play defensively. Not only that, but to do it over a whole set (or worse... a grand finals bracket reset). I guess that's somewhat the point of increasing the timer is to weaken timeouts as a strategy... but when both players are living until +180% and someone gets killed by a crash bomb. >.>

Just watching this matchup again drains me.

Ehh, I guess not +180%. More like +150% of chip damage. Ugh.

 

[Berserker.]

I think this post will enlighten all of you about customs legality/meta

 

[kaazers]

HA! Take this!

And this!

Dear Lord....
UH.

TAKE THIS?

And maybe some of this?

....

Spoiler

I read 10 pages of this social before I stopped and accepted defeat. I dunno how Twi, Dan and Rick do it.

 

[Furret]

I think this post will enlighten all of you about customs

but this has nothing to do with customs

 

[KuroganeHammer]

i drew little mac

i require praise

 

[Berserker.]

but this has nothing to do with customs

Customs legality/meta/whatever. As long as you get the message.

 

[Fernosaur]

I hope people understood I was joking. It's not worth it at all, but would be a hilarious sight for all the brooklyn 99 gifs and stuff in that thread. Definitely the Rosalina no fun gif.


8 minutes is a really long time to time someone out/play defensively. Not only that, but to do it over a whole set (or worse... a grand finals bracket reset). I guess that's somewhat the point of increasing the timer is to weaken timeouts as a strategy... but when both players are living until +180% and someone gets killed by a crash bomb. >.>

Dude.

That was painful to watch.

 

[Ffamran]

Some characters carry so much momentum from their Dash Grab that if they slide to the edge and break out, the grabber and the grabbee both go flying off. I know Meta Knight can do it, it's not surprising Falcon can do it too.

The thing is that when he grabbed me, he stopped at the ledge. Only when I got out did we both slide off the stage.

Only if the hydrant's stale, I would imagine.

You clanked it later in the match with uair too, if you didn't notice.

The match was from a while ago so... yeah... I don't remember that. Also, I just had this weird thing where Dr. Mario's Side Smash clanked with Ness's PKT2 or something and it basically let me live while Ness moved to the left. I forgot to save a replay...

If someone jumps and you hit them with say, Falco's Blaster and they're moved away from the ledge, do they lose their second jump? I had a match against a Captain Falcon and I ended up gimping him like that when I fired Blaster and the laser hit him right when he jumped, moved him a bit from the ledge, and he fell to his death... Wow, apparently "gimp" is an inappropriate word. Really, Nintendo? Fine, "Weird laser fall", Nintendo.

Also, I have no idea how this Down Smash killed Little Mac. I'm pretty sure that Falco's Down Smash isn't disjointed, but it somehow hits Little Mac when Falco's foot is away from the ledge... I... This franchise's hitboxes, man. Replays are shared for whenever anyone wants to analyze them. Oh, and screw lag. I hate input lag so goddamn much.

 

[Berserker.]

@ HeroMystic

The link on your post at the CCI thread is incomplete. Here's a complete link

http://smashboards.com/threads/zeld...-went-on-strike.344739/page-743#post-18807885

 

[Lavani]

I think this post will enlighten all of you about customs legality/meta

I think
these
posts
were actually the most convincing anti-custom posts I've read.

I'm still pretty w/e about customs though, there's jank without them anyway. Customs just mean more jank distribution, which does mean wider character viability but isn't exactly an ideal way to go about doing so.

"As a spectator I'd prefer customs but as a player I think I'd rather not have them" would probably sum up my thoughts.

The thing is that when he grabbed me, he stopped at the ledge. Only when I got out did we both slide off the stage.

So, characters with a lot of movement during their dash grab (Falcon and Meta Knight are the main two that come to mind) can slide to the ledge. If they pummel and still have forward momentum while at the ledge, it forces a grab break and both characters will fall off.

Going deeper: the grab break is caused by the character who initiated the grab being forced offstage. If the grabber has their back to the ledge and is pushed offstage post-grab by a windbox, they'll be ejected offstage while the grabee stays onstage with a grounded release.

Also, I have no idea how this Down Smash killed Little Mac. I'm pretty sure that Falco's Down Smash isn't disjointed, but it somehow hits Little Mac when Falco's foot is away from the ledge... I... This franchise's hitboxes, man. Replays are shared for whenever anyone wants to analyze them. Oh, and screw lag. I hate input lag so goddamn much.

Falco's legs are intangible during dsmash, and if it's like Fox's dsmash (too lazy/drunk to look at mastercore) it has a lot of downwards reach as well.

Not really sure what you're describing with the lasers, if they're hit out of their double jump then they lose their double jump but if they don't use it they'll still have it. Grabbing the ledge (or being hit during ledgesnap vulnerability) refreshes double jumps.

 

[Rizen]

I like 2 stocks because tourneys can take forever but I also see how 3 stocks can be better as SSB4 moves faster than Brawl. I'd be okay with either but slightly prefer 2.

 

[Furret]

I think this post will enlighten all of you about customs legality/meta

but this has nothing to do with customs

Customs legality/meta/whatever. As long as you get the message.

but you don't get it. This post

Why is @Seagull Joe addressing this thread like its posters make the rules? Why don't you talk to someone at Xanadu or someth-


Oh.

Tantalus and I talk daily (He's in my crew). That was pure troll bait on his part.

Tantalus: And this isn't in general towards customs. Like, if we have to do an LGL to keep customs that is borderline insane to me

Do you only post blanket statements, or do you actually participate in discussion and give your reasoning? Don't think I've seen anything discussion-worthy from you yet.

I've given my reasoning on multiple occasions. I'm honestly tired of posting the same things over and over. I will if you really want me to.

Is this a troll/bait post, or did you have twitch chat open in another tab and typed here by accident?

Care to explain your reasoning please?

I don't expect someone with a join date of two days ago to assume anything intelligent when one of their posts discusses me trolling or posting like it was twitch chat. Like what...? This is a public forum. This is not a place for idiocy like twitch chat.

I've been a long time active poster on smashboards.

is more about people being rude then asking for opinions (thanks internet). While yes he didn't paint a very clear picture as I go back and read his posts they didn't need to be so well, rude

I think
these
posts
were actually the most convincing anti-custom posts I've read.

Thanks for the posts I was lookin' for XD

i drew little mac

i require praise

and all I made was this gif...

 

[HeroMystic]

First impressions are key. He's never entered a thread with a post that explained his reasoning. Just clickbait stuff designed to annoy people ("Customs suck. Customs are dumb. Customs force timeouts. Customs are like items." [Real quotes!])

He'll go on to flesh out his argument somewhat but the damage has already been done in a sense. I was also pretty annoyed that he seemingly wrote off AA's Custom Project as a complete nothing, just because he doesn't like customs. So much work went into that, you know? It's disrespectful.

I've asked him to actually go out and "ruin" a tournament with "jank" customs but haven't gotten a response yet. I legitimately want to see it happen. He's a great player. Much better than me. But I can't shake the feeling his motivations for trying to stifle the custom movement are selfish, or otherwise. He says he doesn't even practice Smash 4- even if that's a joke, why should I take his posts seriously? It seems like he's trying to scare people more than anything, and trying to use recent showcased "jank" as his ammunition. (Even if this "jank" has been cut down to size by professional players who fought with it)

I like customs but I will NEVER downplay the feelings of someone who doesn't. Unless they have nothing useful to say. We've had veritable ESSAYS written for the pro-customs side (by active players). Essays that have shot down certain arguments before they were even written.

I don't have any real beef with Joe, and I don't want to make this thread about him, haha. I just hate all the recent knee-jerk attitudes and community semi-split.

I don't read his twitter. However, let me go on to say plenty of top level players actually don't practice Smash 4. Some don't even have the game. I know for sure Boss doesn't have the game, and neither does M2K (though he plays at Zero's place). Some people who place high at my scene doesn't either. This is mainly due to transferrable skills (Smash 4 has the least tech of any Smash game thus far, which makes basic fundamentals the most important) and just playing a lot of friendlies and trading character-specific information.

Lets be realistic though. No tournament is going to be ruined with customs. The question here as a whole is, is it fun to play, and more importantly, counterplay these customs? It's literally a player vs viewer dilemma.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I know the Robin social is all about the ships, but I never realized how delicious some of the pictures they post are.

Spoiler

mmm.

YOU LITTLE sjafkasjfasbf

Now I'll never look at that brand the same EVER AGAIN.
And I liked it

 

[Locke 06]

Dude.

That was painful to watch.

lol. I really enjoyed it, but there's only so much of that I can take. But that Final Destination game is how I see the MU playing out. Olimar has to be incredibly careful after he hits mega upper KO%, and he loses off stage hard so he kind of needs to camp out Mega. Meanwhile, Mega loses to Olimar's combos on stage and his ranged fsmash/kill throw, so Mega needs to camp him out.

Now imagine that with 3-stock 8 minutes. And you realize why I'm on the fence about 3-stocks.

 

[Fernosaur]

I'm also on the side that doesn't like customs. They remind me a little bit too much of Brawl minus to allow me to play comfortably. I don't mind if people want to play with customs, but I think custom Sm4sh should be a different game than regular Sm4sh on exhibition tournaments.

The only reason I'd go positive on customs would be for Brawler's 2222 set, but I'm not even sure if they allow that on regular tournaments because no one answered my question before

Saying I don't like customs doesn't mean I endorse people being d*cks, though.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

but you don't get it. This post

is more about people being rude then asking for opinions (thanks internet). While yes he didn't paint a very clear picture as I go back and read his posts they didn't need to be so well, rude

Thanks for the posts I was lookin' for XD


and all I made was this gif...

why does that do so much damage

regarding customs:

 

[Fernosaur]

^GLOL at Mr Clean's face when that thing kills!!

lol. I really enjoyed it, but there's only so much of that I can take. But that Final Destination game is how I see the MU playing out. Olimar has to be incredibly careful after he hits mega upper KO%, and he loses off stage hard so he kind of needs to camp out Mega. Meanwhile, Mega loses to Olimar's combos on stage and his ranged fsmash/kill throw, so Mega needs to camp him out.

Now imagine that with 3-stock 8 minutes. And you realize why I'm on the fence about 3-stocks.

If we ever play friendlies again and you try to time me out, that's it.

I'm finding you.

And I'm cutting you.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Megaman is pretty much cancer

Honestly we need to stand up against these threats

and ban Megaman/Yoshi and Sonic.

 

[Furret]

why does that do so much damage

no clue raw ultra with opponent over half should be doing like 40% of her health, instead it's doing like 80% XD. and yang isn't Zangief so it really isn't adding up for me

 

[FullMoon]

Huh, there's a Falco main in top 20 in Anther's Ladder.

... Or I think he's a Falco main because he went full Mii Brawler on me. I barely lost to him. Piston Punch is really scary and he managed to kill me three times because of stage transitions in Delfino Plaza.

 

[Lavani]

speaking of jank and "why does that do so much damage"

a friend of mine that plays P4AU was comparing that game's characters to sm4sh

"Sonic is like Shadow Chie; not the absolute best character, but nobody wants to fight it."

 

[Fernosaur]

speaking of jank and "why does that do so much damage"

a friend of mine that plays P4AU was comparing that game's characters to sm4sh

"Sonic is like Shadow Chie; not the absolute best character, but nobody wants to fight it."

WOW.

The character sprite animations in that game are seriously godawful. They're missing like 3 frames in each move.

 

[Rizen]

and all I made was this gif...

Is that a girl, a guy in a skirt or a shaved Scotsman?

 

[thehard]

I don't read his twitter. However, let me go on to say plenty of top level players actually don't practice Smash 4. Some don't even have the game. I know for sure Boss doesn't have the game, and neither does M2K (though he plays at Zero's place). Some people who place high at my scene doesn't either. This is mainly due to transferrable skills (Smash 4 has the least tech of any Smash game thus far, which makes basic fundamentals the most important) and just playing a lot of friendlies and trading character-specific information.

Lets be realistic though. No tournament is going to be ruined with customs. The question here as a whole is, is it fun to play, and more importantly, counterplay these customs? It's literally a player vs viewer dilemma.

If they practiced Smash 4, they might have different opinions on the matter. Knowledge is power and all that

That's a really open-ended question. But are you really implying all (top) players dislike them? And that all viewers like them?

 

[HeroMystic]

@ HeroMystic

The link on your post at the CCI thread is incomplete. Here's a complete link

http://smashboards.com/threads/zeld...-went-on-strike.344739/page-743#post-18807885

Thanks, waifu. Totally didn't notice.

 

[Locke 06]

^GLOL at Mr Clean's face when that thing kills!!



If we ever play friendlies again and you try to time me out, that's it.

I'm finding you.

And I'm cutting you.

http://www.twitch.tv/hurricanessb/b/640345191?t=52m37s - You can try. At least we'll avoid a time out.

lol, but yeah. I'm cancerous and I feel kind of bad. But meh. Just ask me to play DK when you don't want to get timed out. Otherwise, deal with it.

 

[Ffamran]

Dear Lord....
UH.

TAKE THIS?

And maybe some of this?

....

Spoiler

I read 10 pages of this social before I stopped and accepted defeat. I dunno how Twi, Dan and Rick do it.

Question: Why do you use Gladiolus to counter my Lightning posts? Also, never surrender.

Falco's legs are intangible during dsmash, and if it's like Fox's dsmash (too lazy/drunk to look at mastercore) it has a lot of downwards reach as well.

Not really sure what you're describing with the lasers, if they're hit out of their double jump then they lose their double jump but if they don't use it they'll still have it. Grabbing the ledge (or being hit during ledgesnap vulnerability) refreshes double jumps.

So, I just pulled a Snake Utilt with Falco, didn't I? Falco's foot wasn't even close to the ledge and Little Mac was hit by it.

As for laser thing, I have no idea, it's the same with the other one involving ZSS. I think they both jumped while on stage, the laser hit, it pushed them back, and they just fell. There is absolutely no reason they should lose their second jump if that happens unless the game's coding is so messed up it thinks that a second jump was performed while on stage.

@ HeroMystic , did you abandon Marina?

 

[Furret]

Is that a girl, a guy in a skirt or a shaved Scotsman?

Makoto is a girl and I love the animations in street fighter have another

 

[UkeNicky]

Is that a girl, a guy in a skirt or a shaved Scotsman?

Certainly not a Scotsman, otherwise they wouldn't be wearing anything under the kilt

 

[Fernosaur]

http://www.twitch.tv/hurricanessb/b/640345191?t=52m37s - You can try. At least we'll avoid a time out.

lol, but yeah. I'm cancerous and I feel kind of bad. But meh. Just ask me to play DK when you don't want to get timed out. Otherwise, deal with it.

I'm more of the "to each his own" way of thinking. So, like, if you wanna be cancerous that's fine, I just won't play you :'D. Just wanna make it clear that it's nothing against you, though. I actually think you're pretty cool, but I'd rather not have zoning matches on friendlies because I play Smash to get my mind off work and life-stress related stuff.

That's the reason I personally don't like to make friendlies annoying when one's playing for fun. Being super defensive, campy or going for a timeout in a recreational environment is imo a really d*cky thing to do because it takes the fun out of having fun for one of the two sides. Unless both like camping and that kinda ****, then go crazy I guess. I am ok with it in a tournament environment, but yeah.

 

[HeroMystic]

If they practiced Smash 4, they might have different opinions on the matter. Knowledge is power and all that

That's a really open-ended question. But are you really implying all (top) players dislike them? And that all viewers like them?

That's not what I'm trying to imply (I would never say all either, as it would make the statement automatically false). Simply, I feel the customs metagame as a whole is completely different to non-customs, and we're stuck with making that choice on which we prefer. People like me will probably do both, but I can confidently bet on my savings and say the tournament community will not be united on this.

I speak of viewers because we're also trying to grow as an e-sport, which is why 2-stock vs 3-stock exists for the most part. Anecdotal evidence also points to viewers non-tourney goers wanting customs because it's more "exciting" (less about fundamentals and more about handling a character's toolkit), while I have always preferred watching and playing a match of fundamentals.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm more of the "to each his own" way of thinking. So, like, if you wanna be cancerous that's fine, I just won't play you :'D. Just wanna make it clear that it's nothing against you, though. I actually think you're pretty cool, but I'd rather not have zoning matches on friendlies because I play Smash to get my mind off work and life-stress related stuff.

That's the reason I personally don't like to make friendlies annoying when one's playing for fun. Being super defensive, campy or going for a timeout in a recreational environment is imo a really d*cky thing to do because it takes the fun out of having fun for one of the two sides. Unless both like camping and that kinda ****, then go crazy I guess. I am ok with it in a tournament environment, but yeah.

To be fair Megaman doesn't really have other options.

But they bring it on themselves. 8'D

 

[HeroMystic]

@ HeroMystic , did you abandon Marina?

Marina's still in my sig, yo.

She will never be abandoned. I just need to give my milf Rosie some love.