Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Blossom ✿]

Zelda's kinda unusable. Only Nairo and Ven have the ability to use her.

Yeah, everytime I try to use Zelda it's pretty much a failure trying to make progress with her.
That, and I can't stand it when people fall out of fsmash and usmash.

 

[PUK]

I never use usmash myself.
But Zelda is going to be the best low tier i believe, and will always be my secondarie.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

I only go Zelda if items are on :^)

 

[Macchiato]

Can't wait to see you talk to the Green Lesbian

Who?

 

[Berserker.]

Who?

Ask @ IsmaR

It seems like you have identified who it was

 

[Macchiato]

Samus has some pretty good tourney results too.

 

[IsmaR]

The notMelee/noSuperWaveDash/10 crowd isn't as vocal as they used to be, but Samus is pretty much held in the same regard if not worse than she was in Brawl.

Plus why bother when you could get more naked and in turn become an infinitely more viable character.

 

[warionumbah2]

Well since we talking about how we play, this is how I currently play MK.

 

[UkeNicky]

Edit:

I regret nothing
View attachment 44087

Because this is actually relevant

 

[SBphiloz4]

Well since we talking about how we play, this is how I currently play MK.

Legit MK, I'm taking notes haha.

UpB is more abusable than I thought,

 

[Berserker.]

Dayum. Dem Shuttle loop KO's at halberd.

At least it requires some sort of set up UNLIKE A CERTAIN MONKEY IN THIS GAME WHO CAN NET A KO WITH A BRAIN DEAD THROW COMBO

 

[Locke 06]

Legit MK, I'm taking notes haha.

UpB is more abusable than I thought,

Literally the post I was about to make. UpB OoS made me laugh.

Peach looks difficult though as far as MU's go. Yeah she dies to shuttle loop early, but she seems to be able to Nair combo break or drift away from MK's combo game.

 

[Berserker.]

F Five Nights 3

F it to the depths of hell

F the effective cheap jump scares

 

[warionumbah2]

He also used Zelda on me and won 2/5 games when he used her, my experience against her is so low i got caught off guard from her F-Smash and such. Then he switched to Peach and started float cancelling and i was like 'wut' we went at it probably 20 games back to back, i wouldn't say she's a difficult MU so long as you know how to tornado properly since that move is the reason i got the most games under my belt. Its even until she gets bs turnips and bomb-ombs. Mr Saturn actually sets up combo's for MK and serves as a good OOS option lol.

I feel bad when he asked for advice since i never played a MK ditto at a decent level so i never know how it feels to get combo'd by down throw into grounded shuttle loop. Like Seagall asked how to DI uair strings into shuttle loop and i felt like my answer was complete poop.

After that one game on Helberd i never picked it again due to how one sided it was. Need to play more customs tbh.

 

[FullMoon]

So that one guy who bought all those Rosalina Amiibo just made an entire video talking about Rosalina and it's 14 minutes long.

My. God.

 

[Kofu]

Last night I tested something I had a suspicion about and found I was right.

Hyper Smash Shulk's DThrow kills earlier than Ness's BThrow. I mean, HS Shulk shouldn't need to kill with a throw but that's pretty insane for an attack that does 2.5%.

 

[Berserker.]

HSmash Shulk's b-throw KO's at 119% at mid stage and 79% at starting position on Mario
HSmash Shulk's d-throw KO's at 122% at mid stage and 83% at starting position on Mario

Some things about Hyper arts

 

[evmaxy54]

Hail at the end of March is p weird lol

Since, we're on the topic on how we play our characters, I try to play by not making as much inputs as I can tbh (not like Zelda or Ganon really needs to do much technically). Plus I have time to think about stuff like what I should do, what might my opponent do & so on :3

 

[Latte]

>>Stays up until 6 AM
>>Realizes that I promised to take my sister somewhere at 8 in the morning
>>Weeps quietly

Now I'm dead tired, but the coffee I drank earlier won't let me sleep. kofi y u du dis2me..:^(

@ Macchiato You main Samus now? I've been wanting to try out Samus for awhile now, so swag

#coffeepals

EDIT: @ Macchiato Do you have any Samus guides you can recommend? Do you think it would be better for me to simply experiment with Samus myself, without the help of a guide?

how2learn new characters

pls send help

 

[Mr. Johan]

How I play Robin....

I guess I'm a go-with-the-flow kind of Robin?

I'll play defensive if I need to, but I'm more often than not at midrange, SHing and taking advantage of Robin's max aerial range and abusing whatever speed Robin has. If I'm pressured, I'll drift back; if I have the advantage, I'll press it. A measly 4 frames of landing lag on Robin's aerial kit is a beaut and is really complementary to that.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

I play aggressively with most of my characters
Cept
I actually try to sit back and play a bit more defensively
My problem is, I'm bad at reads. I'm prone to bad habits as well

 

[warionumbah2]

I also love going mid range on these guys:

I know and get good mid range tools in customs, thus giving MK more trouble theoretically.

@ FullMoon If G-Boards want help with the MK MU i suggest tagging Katakiri and Ito. What they say is more reliable since they are better and have much more experience against Greninja who i thought was rare af.

 

[Kofu]

HSmash Shulk's b-throw KO's at 119% at mid stage and 79% at starting position on Mario
HSmash Shulk's d-throw KO's at 122% at mid stage and 83% at starting position on Mario

Some things about Hyper arts

I did my testing on 3DS and found that, with Shulk at mid-stage, DThrow would kill Mario at 123%. BThrow killed later than that actually. An interesting thing is that BThrow has higher KBG than DThrow so it kills earlier with arts other than Smash.

And then I messed around with +Attack equipment, critical hit equipment, Hyper Buster and Power Vision. I couldn't get Ganon to use a strong attack so I never got to 999% (only 873% cri).

 

[Brinzy]

The best thing about this thread is I don't have to actually be in the Zelda forum to get here, because it's almost always the most recently replied to thread. >_>

 

[FullMoon]

@ FullMoon If G-Boards want help with the MK MU i suggest tagging Katakiri and Ito. What they say is more reliable since they are better and have much more experience against Greninja who i thought was rare af.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks.

 

[SBphiloz4]

Zelda should never push a lot of buttons. It's all about capitalizing on opponent mistakes, and you really have to go for it and know it will work out because all her moves are so punishable. The only problem is that she is so damn slow so hyper aggression is bad, but she gets out-camped if she goes all out defensive. It's finding that fine balance between the two playstyles, which what makes Zelda such a difficult character to play.

My Zelda I guess I consider is a passive aggressive that relies on Dthrow into everything and hard reads from the Dthrow, haha. Again, can't press too many buttons, but it's a style that fits me, which is why I'll still be loyal with da waifu this game. :^)

 

[Brinzy]

I'll still be loyal with da waifu this game. :^)

Oh.

I've been cheating on Zelda with Falcon.

sry

 

[BJN39]

Zelda should never push a lot of buttons. It's all about capitalizing on opponent mistakes, and you really have to go for it and know it will work out because all her moves are so punishable. The only problem is that she is so damn slow so hyper aggression is bad, but she gets out-camped if she goes all out defensive. It's finding that fine balance between the two playstyles, which what makes Zelda such a difficult character to play.

My Zelda I guess I consider is a passive aggressive that relies on Dthrow into everything and hard reads from the Dthrow, haha. Again, can't press too many buttons, but it's a style that fits me, which is why I'll still be loyal with da waifu this game. :^)

How often do you successfully manage a Dthrow read? Whether it be LKs, or like, just staying grounded and scoring another grab or an Usmash? Because it feels like I get the Dthrow read only super rarely.

Wait I probably just have trash luck. :^) seems right to me.

 

[Lavani]

Who's Marina?

stop being so y(ry

Well since we talking about how we play, this is how I currently play MK.

Comparing your MK to mine, I think I feel too much like I have to be pressing buttons at neutral instead of just being more patient, and I probably get predictable about when I decide to approach. I also go for dash grab over dash attack way more than you do for an approach, maybe I should be less afraid to rely on dash attack.

Sh bair at neutral was interesting to me, what's the purpose of that? Fastfall if it hits then shuttle loop/etc?

Unsure if you already know since you threw out that Shuttle Loop really quickly and probably didn't have time to react, but if they DI dthrow like he did at 4:35 you hit them by running forward and using grounded SL.

EDIT: On the subject of , dtilt>SL can be jumped out of with DI it seems. I lost a game to a Rosalina when I dtilted her at 100% then went for SL, but she double jumped before hitting the ground and killed me instead with fsmash. Might be floaty characters only, but something to keep in mind.

 

[warionumbah2]

Comparing your MK to mine, I think I feel too much like I have to be pressing buttons at neutral instead of just being more patient, and I probably get predictable about when I decide to approach. I also go for dash grab over dash attack way more than you do for an approach, maybe I should be less afraid to rely on dash attack.

Yeah i realize that error when i realized how neutral heavy this game is, also i had no choice but to wait because Peach has the best movement option in the game. Dash grab is good but not that safe, dash attack is safe and clanks with alot of moves and the range on his DA is silly(cartoonish foot extension is a blessing from Sakurai).

Sh bair at neutral was interesting to me, what's the purpose of that? Fastfall if it hits then shuttle loop/etc?

I never do this to any other character, i only do it to Jigglypuff and Peach because of disjoints. It keeps Peach out and conditions my opponent to use another method in approaching, i actually do combo out of sh bair on my next video im uploading.

SH fast fall bair --> DA --> Shuttle Loop is legit.

Unsure if you already know since you threw out that Shuttle Loop really quickly and probably didn't have time to react, but if they DI dthrow like he did at 4:35 you hit them by running forward and using grounded SL.

I do that in my next video, i start following his DI then SL from the ground. First stock i got bodied but i reset it really well only taking 9%.

 

[SBphiloz4]

How often do you successfully manage a Dthrow read? Whether it be LKs, or like, just staying grounded and scoring another grab or an Usmash? Because it feels like I get the Dthrow read only super rarely.

Wait I probably just have trash luck. :^) seems right to me.

It's really all about seeing the opponent's defensive patterns after a Dthrow. If you notice their DI pattern and that they air dodge right after the throw, you can read the dodge and Uair if they DI'd up, or a possible LK or Nair if they DI'd away. If you see them jumping after the throw or attacking, just do regular Dthrow to Nair combos to condition them to think air dodge works.

Also, @Aleate showed me that you can also punish opponents who roll back onstage from the ledge with FW. INCREDIBLY useful stuff. c:

 

[TTTTTsd]

Well gorls I think Doc's Down-B 2 has won me over with 19 frames of active hitbox that is a kill move on-stage reliably (middle stage 100 some % with no rage LOL) and how easy it is to hit with once setup. I also did some experimentation and I'll be back on it after class today, I want to see and confirm if Down-B 2 actually covers all platform tech options (it will cover getup attack if you delay it). If it does I will start fishing for setups to force people to plat-tech on BF and cover it with Down-B 2. If they tech in the wrong direction they'll die, no matter what they get knocked far away and disadvantageous position both being in the air and likely giving up lots of stage space.

Down-B 2 also has the active frames to trump every ledge getup option outside of a roll when spaced properly, and if they're at a % over like 65, they're likely dead. You can initiate it on stage next to ledge OR below them (use the upwards momentum to whip up and hit them off the ledge/out of their option thanks to the long arm hitbox).

Holy cow this move. Regular Nado is still god in some MUs (and you can still use both nados interchangeably I believe) but Down-B 2 gets better the more I experiment.

 

[Lavani]

@ TTTTTsd I dunno if you saw it when I posted it before (this thread moves fast) but it's downright dumb with rage:

Not sure what the hitboxes on the move look like exactly, but considering it has 19 active frames and kills so early offstage, I would think doing Soaring Nado directly under the ledge would catch characters during ledgesnap and kill them for free (possibly stagespike for even more fun) or just straight-up beat out their recovery moves.

 

[warionumbah2]

@ Lavani The percents for that kill setup is so precise on lightweights, if you don't do it around 96%(i posted a list for all characters somewhere) it will not work. But Rosalina dies around 90-100 from bread and butter combo's like Pikachu so i never get to do it on them.

Dtilt tends to whiff her too because she floats above the ground.

 

[TTTTTsd]

@ TTTTTsd I dunno if you saw it when I posted it before (this thread moves fast) but it's downright dumb with rage:

Not sure what the hitboxes on the move look like exactly, but considering it has 19 active frames and kills so early offstage, I would think doing Soaring Nado directly under the ledge would catch characters during ledgesnap invuln and kill them for free (possibly stagespike for even more fun) or just straight-up beat out their recovery moves.

It's a VERY strong move. When I said Doc is way better with customs I was more right than I thought. This move covers SO much, I've even had it beat getup attacks thanks to its Nado disjoint range (<3 u hitbox).

If customs keep being legal nobody is going to make fun of this character =3.

But yeah I'm going to check if it covers techrolls on platforms. The setup potential is real, and it's not hard to force plat landing with Doc if you can get someone above you because they don't want to land next to you given your kill power, and it's hard to challenge USmash when you're high above him and coming down. The fact that Nado-2 covers ledge options that aren't a ledge roll forces them to rely on it (in theory) and if they don't they're screwed, which also removes the idea of wanting to go for the ledge too often in fear of the move if they know what it can do....If it covers techrolls and plat distance on BF I'll then start checking for specific percents where Utilt or etc. moves that pop up can force a plat-tech.

It's a seriously scary move the more I think about it. Setups can be difficult but the reward and the options it covers are IMMENSE when you figure out exactly how it ticks.

The best part is that you get all of this AND one of the best OoS options (if not the best) in the game, it's so delightful! God bless you Up+B 1.

 

[spiderfreak1011]

What if...

we raided the CCI thread.

We're already gonna raid the ***** and ***** threads (bleeped out names cause its a secret) at the same time, so maybe another time Locke. Maybeeeeeeee. Unless you wanna join us in raiding some other threads? : 3

Nah, I totally get that. I was trying to be a little funny, but I guess I came off as kind of a ****. I won't time people out unless we're playing serious friendlies (which I consider different from normal friendlies). I play for fun too, and mostly to relax from work (zoning can be really therapeutic at times for me).

On the serious note: Most practice/play is friendlies. How do you develop a time out strategy if the only time you time out people is in tournaments? I time Spirst out because I love him, but I'm having trouble finding people who want to be timed out are okay with being timed out in serious friendlies (do they exist?).

Just letting you know, next time we play, i wouldn't mind if you wanna try timing me out. It'd be nice to see if my Shulk could stop you from pulling that off with his mobility, lol.

 

[Lavani]

@ Berserker. Do you use perfect pivots at all with Shulk?

EDIT: Well, now that I think about it a lot of the applications I was thinking of are either bad or wouldn't require a perfect pivot. I guess pp away>jab/grab against approaches or pp forward>fsmash? idk

There probably isn't really much there, I just got a little excited while playing with perfect pivots during speed lol. Sad that dsmash stops sliding momentum.

EDIT2: Random unrelated lab stuff, Bowser Jr's fsmash has like no end lag. Not sure if it's safe on shield though, the last hit is only 11% so no pushback/weak shieldstun.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Today, I came to the realisation that Zelda's approach is so bad that it's hard to approach Zelda.

 

[SBphiloz4]

Done ze photoshop~

Accurate representation of Robin's struggles.

 

[Cenizas]

Today, I came to the realisation that Zelda's approach is so bad that it's hard to approach Zelda.

What does this even mean.