Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Locke 06]

I'm more of the "to each his own" way of thinking. So, like, if you wanna be cancerous that's fine, I just won't play you :'D. Just wanna make it clear that it's nothing against you, though. I actually think you're pretty cool, but I'd rather not have zoning matches on friendlies because I play Smash to get my mind off work and life-stress related stuff.

That's the reason I personally don't like to make friendlies annoying when one's playing for fun. Being super defensive, campy or going for a timeout in a recreational environment is imo a really d*cky thing to do because it takes the fun out of having fun for one of the two sides. Unless both like camping and that kinda ****, then go crazy I guess. I am ok with it in a tournament environment, but yeah.

Nah, I totally get that. I was trying to be a little funny, but I guess I came off as kind of a ****. I won't time people out unless we're playing serious friendlies (which I consider different from normal friendlies). I play for fun too, and mostly to relax from work (zoning can be really therapeutic at times for me).

On the serious note: Most practice/play is friendlies. How do you develop a time out strategy if the only time you time out people is in tournaments? I time Spirst out because I love him, but I'm having trouble finding people who want to be timed out are okay with being timed out in serious friendlies (do they exist?).

 

[Rizen]

Anecdotal evidence also points to viewers non-tourney goers wanting customs because it's more "exciting" (less about fundamentals and more about handling a character's toolkit), while I have always preferred watching and playing a match of fundamentals.

Well tourney players will just have to put the 'fun' in 'fundamentals'
...I suck. Seriously though I think the extreme nature of customs paired with tourney players' tactics to exploit effective options to win will prove less fun than games without customs. Killing at 40% or extreme avoidance/camping seems like less fun than how the non custom game was balanced.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm having trouble finding people who want to be timed out (do they exist?).

I wonder why

 

[thehard]

That's not what I'm trying to imply (I would never say all either, as it would make the statement automatically false). Simply, I feel the customs metagame as a whole is completely different to non-customs, and we're stuck with making that choice on which we prefer. People like me will probably do both, but I can confidently bet on my savings and say the tournament community will not be united on this.

I speak of viewers because we're also trying to grow as an e-sport, which is why 2-stock vs 3-stock exists for the most part. Anecdotal evidence also points to viewers non-tourney goers wanting customs because it's more "exciting" (less about fundamentals and more about handling a character's toolkit), while I have always preferred watching and playing a match of fundamentals.

It's definitely a shame that certain groups still think customs are Diddy and Sheik-killers and that Smash 4 is "saved" through means of customs. I love this game with or without them and I don't care who's top tier. Implementing customs, IMO, has always been about increasing character viability, allowing more people to play who they love, while the entertainment of seeing spectacular specials and diverse tournament results was a secondary factor.

I feel as though the community at large is experiencing growing pains as far as customs go. Certain custom strategies are being revealed to the public in quick succession. It's information overload. It looks crazy, but will it remain crazy? Makes me wish we had them legal from Day 1 so feelings would be tempered or confirmed by now.

I like both of the things you listed and my hope is that custom play finds a balance between the two. I have not seen custom games turn into B-spam fests and I think they'll become even less so as players get better (minus like, DK, but that's because Cyclone is now his preferred method of transfer. Even Will doesn't get away with overuse.)

 

[HeroMystic]

On the serious note: Most practice/play is friendlies. How do you develop a time out strategy if the only time you time out people is in tournaments? I time Spirst out because I love him, but I'm having trouble finding people who want to be timed out are okay with being timed out in serious friendlies (do they exist?).

I actually don't care about time-outs. I'm apparently the most patient player in all of SA.

 

[Fernosaur]

To be fair Megaman doesn't really have other options.

But they bring it on themselves. 8'D

I'm pretty sure there are other options that aren't using the lemon wall for 8 minutes straight.

Nah, I totally get that. I was trying to be a little funny, but I guess I came off as kind of a ****. I won't time people out unless we're playing serious friendlies (which I consider different from normal friendlies). I play for fun too, and mostly to relax from work (zoning can be really therapeutic at times for me).

On the serious note: Most practice/play is friendlies. How do you develop a time out strategy if the only time you time out people is in tournaments? I time Spirst out because I love him, but I'm having trouble finding people who want to be timed out are okay with being timed out in serious friendlies (do they exist?).

Practice matches are a totally different thing from friendlies, though. Like, if I came up to you and told you "dude I wanna practice the MM match-up," then that's because I wanna get timed out.

Well, I don't WANNA get timed out, but I know I'm gonna get timed out if I run into a MM in a tournament, so I better suck it up.

I'll also make it clear that the above scenario is actually completely possible, but not something I wanna be on the recieving end of every time I play with a friend . It's just a matter of making what's "cool" clear before you play I guess. Another thing is that playing online lacks the amicability of presence, and being timed out when you don't have your friend by your side to punch them after it is more frustrating.


Also also, I totally understand the "I time you out cause I love you" line, hahaha. My best friend and bro hates the elevator with a passion. Like, he genuinely hates it, and I make an effort to kill him exclusively with the elevator every time we play, even if I could get any other kind of kill.

But that kinda dickishness is only for sworn bros (?). If you and I ever come to that level of bro-ness, you'll have the right to time me out all you want

 

[Locke 06]

I actually don't care about time-outs. I'm apparently the most patient player in all of SA.

Yeah, you're on my list of people who I think would be okay with me playing hyper defensive/safe. Especially after all the Samus testing. But Mario's not the easiest character to time out. >.>

Edit:

I'll also make it clear that the above scenario is actually completely possible, but not something I wanna be on the recieving end of every time I play with a friend . It's just a matter of making what's "cool" clear before you play I guess. Another thing is that playing online lacks the amicability of presence, and being timed out when you don't have your friend by your side to punch them after it is more frustrating.

I feel like such an ass when I play sometimes, even in friendlies. Dash attack on shield? I will "nope" out loud while I launch them with a utilt. A lot of my shield drop>utilts are preceded with a very audible "nope," that I could imagine getting really frustrating/annoying. I try my best not do it out loud in person, but it slips out sometimes.

 

[IsmaR]

Having both played against and played as "cancer," I have no strong opinion towards or against it.

Then again, I played as Brawl Spamus. Timing someone out is hardly a foreign concept. And that was with an 8-minute timer.

Cluck.

 

[Fernosaur]

@ Locke 06 I also remember that going through the lemon wall wasn't nearly as hard when I was playing Brawler. I SD a lot less now than back when we played, hahahaha, so in all honesty I wouldn't even try to go Villager or Zelda when playing you unless you started using other characters.

I'd also like to practice more with Ness, so I guess there's that.

Do lemons get absorbed by Psi Magnet?

 

[HeroMystic]

Yeah, you're on my list of people who I think would be okay with me playing hyper defensive/safe. Especially after all the Samus testing. But Mario's not the easiest character to time out. >.>

I timed out a Luigi with spamming fireballs and caping his own back.

He was at 70%, last stock.
I was at 200%, 2 stocks.

That was practice.

 

[Rizen]

Cluck.

Hey look, a harmless Coocoo. I'm going to kick it, ha ha! What? Oh dear god; they're everywhere! Nooooo!

 

[McKnightlíght]

I could never be timed out, I would exhaust all of my stocks through FW SDs way before 8 minutes.

 

[Berserker.]

My style is spacing oriented but I'm really impatient and hungry for them gimps and KO's, which is why most of my successful KO attempts are from jump art

 

[Locke 06]

Do lemons get absorbed by Psi Magnet?

Yessir. Magnet loses to Metal Blades/Shadow Blade (not my favorite) & Ice Slasher (and leaf shield/variants, lol) but absorbs fsmash, lemons, crash bomb, and danger wrap. I don't know about hyper bomb, but I assume you can since you can absorb Link's bombs too.

 

[IsmaR]

Hey look, a harmless Coocoo. I'm going to kick it, ha ha! What? Oh dear god; they're everywhere! Nooooo!

We are going to cluck you up.

Chirp.

 

[UkeNicky]

Hmm o^o talking about Megaman huh

 

[Berserker.]

How I play Mario... Hmm.. Throw out fire ball/s occasionally when rushing down or when running away. OoS b-air/n-air/u-smash. Falling n-air to approach or b-air poke. Bait and make them reads mostly. Use d-throw and see how they act after they're thrown. If they air dodge or if they try to attack after getting d-thrown, pivot f-smash. If they try to jump away, chase them down. U-throw to u-air if I want guaranteed damage

It's really hard to describe how I use Mario but it all comes down to dissecting habits then exploiting them. I don't use FLUDD that much though but I'm working on trying to implement FLUDD.

 

[HeroMystic]

My style is spacing oriented but I'm really impatient and hungry for them gimps and KO's, which is why most of my successful KO attempts are from jump art

I actually prefer a rushdown style. However, I camp when I feel it's necessary and take a shift in mentality. Camping is much more taxing than rushing down because it only takes a few mistakes for all that camping to become nullified.

Edit: Waifu, U-Throw > U-air only works from 0 - 4%. D-throw > U-air works on all characters from ~30% to 110%+.

 

[Locke 06]

I want to play more of a rushdown neutral game. My DK is more of spacing/poke character in neutral (which stems from my Mega), but once I get a hit, I'm in with a full head of steam.

Also, I think the top Mega's all are pretty offensive oriented in neutral. Zucc0, N!njaL!nk, and Gr3ward, are the Mega's with the most exposure and they play pretty offensive pressure/read based always trying to go in from what I've seen. Se!brik, the 4th mega to make it out of pools at APEX, plays an "in your face" mega man according to the TO in the online tourney I participated in. I can get some momentum and stuff off a grab and play aggressive, but my neutral game is very much defensive oriented.

 

[Fernosaur]

I'd go straight for NinjaL's Megaman.

Wait...

 

[Furret]

Dear: everyone who is talking about play style,
my style talk big

that's kinda it :D

Much love,
Furret

 

[Berserker.]

Edit: Waifu, U-Throw > U-air only works from 0 - 4%. D-throw > U-air works on all characters from ~30% to 110%+.

Oh. Well, I sort of knew about d-throw > u-air working from that range, but u-throw > u-air? Oh boy. I'll try to avoid doing u-throw > u-air that much (I was wondering why I was getting whacked while I try to follow up u-air from u-throw at times. No wonder lol.)

 

[HeroMystic]

Oh. Well, I sort of knew about d-throw > u-air working from that range, but u-throw > u-air? Oh boy. I'll try to avoid doing u-throw > u-air that much (I was wondering why I was getting whacked while I try to follow up u-air from u-throw at times. No wonder lol.)

Last post before I go to bed (because holy crap 3 AM lol).

You basically only want to use U-throw at 0 - 7% because D-throw is pretty terrible at low percents. The majority of characters, especially Fox/Falco/Sheik, can DI down and powershield your follow-up. U-Throw not only makes this impossible to powershield, but it also fudges their DI because it guarantees a D-air true combo follow-up, which true combos into any aerial including F-air (I prefer B-air though).

Once you hit 20%, you're pretty safe to rely on D-throw for combos, though I do suggest if you're near the ledge to use F-Throw to set up edgeguards, which I feel Mario truly shines.

 

[Mericus]

Hay gorl! Sorry to hear you haven't been sleeping well, but that increase in health, even in the slightest, is amazing to know! I hope it keeps getting better, it's good to see you every now and then. :3

When you're able to play again, I'll definitely take you up on some casual Smash. I feel bad for not joining in on the idea before, so I'll make it up to you. For now, just keep on fighting, we're all here for you. <3

That'd be nice ^^
I notice some of the past anxious members have overcome a bit of it and were asking for casuals/friendlies, and as a person living with severe anxiety, it made me happy to see them reaching out.

Btw,
don't feel bad for not joining in since only one person of the WHOLE social did lol ( man it sure bummed me out tho ).
Ty for the kind sentiments Twili + everyone, means alot and is why I've liked this social <3

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

I like how when Seagull Joe posts something about customs, people just assume that it's a troll/bait statement. Good way to respect an opinion

We should all be happy that no one uses Shulk. I mean, power vision is a counter and counters can be dealt with by grabbing BUT... when you land power vision, your probably dead at like ~60% if you jabbed power vision. ~50% if you f-smash'd power vision. ~40% with smash art activated. ~5% with hyper smash activated.

I mean, I'm not being biased or I'm not trying to suck off my own main's sausage but really, power vision is stupid.

Well, on my end, the whole reason he posted what he did was because of my post. So, if he wanted a debate I went ahead and made a counter post.

Alright, I get it but you guys should take it better next time

Also, no one was really acting too bad in this thread during that. People were generally decent about it. I myself did not see it as a troll statement. I stated that multiple times. I wanted a clean debate. Do I think he should have presented himself better though? Absolutely.



Honestly, looking at all these discussions on custom moves, there doesn't look like there will be anymore healthy discussion on custom moves. It has pretty much become political. With both sides acting like they are superior to the other. I just want to have a discussion myself.

As for me, I'm not saying #Adapt, I'm saying I want to see if people can adapt or not. I want to see if it is really as unfun as they say. I want to see where the meta goes. What people go for.

While I'm still for customs, it's not like I'm 100% customs no matter what they do.

I want this game to be the best it can be, and if it custom moves help, GREAT! If they don't, ok. We tried to make the most of it, but it didn't work. Oh well.




Also, I'm very sad I missed the Kirby discussion a while back. ;_;

 

[Berserker.]

@ CatRaccoonBL

I was referring specifically to the users at the CCI thread. Not you.

 

[McKnightlíght]

Well, on my end, the whole reason he posted what he did was because of my post. So, if he wanted a debate I went ahead and made a counter post.


Also, no one was really acting too bad in this thread during that. People were generally decent about it. I myself did not see it as a troll statement. I stated that multiple times. I wanted a clean debate. Do I think he should have presented himself better though? Absolutely.



Honestly, looking at all these discussions on custom moves, there doesn't look like there will be anymore healthy discussion on custom moves. It has pretty much become political. With both sides acting like they are superior to the other. I just want to have a discussion myself.

As for me, I'm not saying #Adapt, I'm saying I want to see if people can adapt or not. I want to see if it is really as unfun as they say. I want to see where the meta goes. What people go for.

While I'm still for customs, it's not like I'm 100% customs no matter what they do.

I want this game to be the best it can be, and if it custom moves help, GREAT! If they don't, ok. We tried to make the most of it, but it didn't work. Oh well.




Also, I'm very sad I missed the Kirby discussion a while back. ;_;

I'll talk Kirby. As long as it is specifically about Smash Bros. or Return to Dreamland

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

@ CatRaccoonBL

I was referring specifically to the users at the CCI thread. Not you.

Ohh, thought you were referring to this thread. Eh. Just making sure and putting my end just in case.

Sorry about that. ;^^

 

[Cenizas]

Who's Marina?

 

[Berserker.]

Who's Marina?

The girl with the green hair

 

[Macchiato]

My only purpose here is @ Macchiato 's avatar called to me.

Cluck.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

 

[Berserker.]

Star Wars rebels is surprisingly impressive. Some lame episodes but there were those nice episodes and all. Final episode was amazing. Kainan is based on Kyle Katarn which is cool because Kyle Katarn is my personal favorite SW character

8/10

 

[PUK]

So how far is the macchiato's main character discussion? He decided to main Samus?

 

[Blossom ✿]

Mornin' to you all. How's it going?

 

[Berserker.]

So how far is the macchiato's main character discussion? He decided to main Samus?

He said if he stays with the character for 2 months, he's perma-maining the character

Mornin' to you all. How's it going?

Foine


Edit:

I regret nothing

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Hay peeps
How goes it here?

 

[Blossom ✿]

Foine

Ahh, good to know.
Also, I love how even though this is the Zelda Social, more than half the people who frequent here aren't even Zelda Mains.
And I'm becoming a frequent here, too and it's hard to explain why.

 

[Macchiato]

The samus boards are really optimistic. I love it

 

[Berserker.]

Ahh, good to know.
Also, I love how even though this is the Zelda Social, more than half the people who frequent here aren't even Zelda Mains.
And I'm becoming a frequent here, too and it's hard to explain why.

Zelda's kinda unusable. Only Nairo and Ven have the ability to use her.

The samus boards are really optimistic. I love it

Can't wait to see you talk to the Green Lesbian