Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Nu~]

Heh...
I have a special hatred for online samus.
Played on smash ladder against a lower ranking player using samus. Had a feeling it would be a standard for glory samus...
And my intuition was right.

Nothing but standard charge shot and missle spam. Not to mention the internet was choppy. I decided to throw out fruits to try and stop his spam/give me a stronger approach without relying on shield, but I could not time anything right. It's also extremely hard to set up any traps when you are on lylat cruise online.

And in the end, he called me the spammiest player he has ever fought.
I almost lost it

 

[Lavani]

@ Lavani Do you have information on how the height and weight of the Miis affects their attacks? Cause I'm pretty sure the endlag on their attacks is bigger the heavier and taller they are. On the flipside, they seem to get much more range by being taller, so...

I'd just like to know if there's any exact estimate. I just saw a thinnest/smallest Mii Brawler do a nair offstage without dying, and if I do that with mine it's suicide.

I'm going to preface this by saying that I dislike Miis so I never bothered to learn their specifics, but I know a bit on this subject. Off the top of my head...

Increasing height: Increases range, increases end lag, minorly increases damage?
Increasing weight: Decreases move speeds/jump height, increases damage, increases weight (duh)

There may be more, idk. People generally prefer min weight and 1/4 height iirc

Fighting against DH, Villager, Ike, DDD, Samus, and pretty much any character you must react to is a terrible thing to do online.

I tend to ignore the results themselves, save the replays, watch them a couple times and try to spot my own habits.

lol I just got done with playing a Dedede

The delay wasn't...awful...but it was enough to make nair hard to punish and certain other things really unsafe to try. Ironically he also died trying to ff uair below the ledge and fell too far lol

They played Megaman against my Lucario and MK, legit good player that was picking up on my habits and punishing them. Would've loved to play them offline...

There was a horribly laggy Ike before that, unreactable Ike dsmash/bair is some BS.

EDIT: Checked win%s for my top 5 characters after that session for giggles.

86%
83%
80%
79%
71%

Lucario kind of cheats by still being in double digit game count, but I guess I'm making progress with him regardless!

 

[IsmaR]

I don't play For Glory much, much less use Zelda seriously.

It's weird systematically destroying someone (not terribad) with her.

 

[FullMoon]

That's for certain, and could be said for most people. Offline is ALWAYS better than online. Greninja feels like a completely different character to me in lag vs no lag. Even with the best connection online you can get, the slightest delay will hurt him.

Considering I have a reasonably good track record with playing online with Greninja, I wonder just how much better I would play offline, heheh.

I'm far from being a pro, but I do seem to be doing a lot better in this meta than I thought I would. I honestly expected to be destroyed in Anther's Ladder by the top players there but even then I can usually give them a good fight if I lose.

Speaking of which, there's someone in top 15 in the ladder that played with only Zelda, wow.

 

[Locke 06]

The rare good connection good player on for glory keeps me going back. Also a good way to test new strategies. Offline is always 100% better than online, but I don't find it to be too different on the best connections, even when doing things like perfect shield>utilt punishes. I could adjust better than most though due to the fact that the majority of my games are played online.

Actual bad lag is awful and makes you a worse player.

 

[Mocha]

Considering I have a reasonably good track record with playing online with Greninja, I wonder just how much better I would play offline, heheh.

I'm far from being a pro, but I do seem to be doing a lot better in this meta than I thought I would. I honestly expected to be destroyed in Anther's Ladder by the top players there but even then I can usually give them a good fight if I lose.

Speaking of which, there's someone in top 15 in the ladder that played with only Zelda, wow.

I've been giving some serious thought to trying out this ladder, but I have premonitions of much headache and frustration, along with the fact that I get discouraged so easily. Where is this ladder, exactly? Is it here on Smashboards, or on Nintendo Dojo/All is Brawl? Or is it on some other kind of Smash site?

Yeah I don't know how you do it with this character in lag. Especially considering you frequently have to put up with bad connection due to country.

And who's the Zelda? Ven?

 

[Ffamran]

Hmm... I might try Anther's Ladder and joining online tournaments like Macchi if I have time and if and when I get a Wii U since I'd rather not wreck my 3DS, but I might mess around on Anther's Ladder on the 3DS.

I've been giving some serious thought to trying out this ladder, but I have premonitions of much headache and frustration, along with the fact that I get discouraged so easily. Where is this ladder, exactly? Is it here on Smashboards, or on Nintendo Dojo/All is Brawl? Or is it on some other kind of Smash site?

Yeah I don't know how you do it with this character in lag. Especially considering you frequently have to put up with bad connection due to country.

And who's the Zelda? Ven?

Google is a nice friend... except when safe search isn't on and you get unsavory images...

Link to the ladder: http://www.smashladder.com/.

 

[Lavani]

Online tournaments are usually horribly run, and I don't trust people to not do things like tampering with their connection.

tbh I should probably just start playing the game with friends

 

[Spirst]

I only played Anther's Ladder once or twice but it was decent. I might do it again when I have more time though I don't expect too much.

@ Mocha www.smashladder.com is the site for Anther's ladder.

Online tournaments are usually horribly run, and I don't trust people to not do things like tampering with their connection.

tbh I should probably just start playing the game with friends

Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly (@ Locke 06 ) but I remember I once took part in an online tournament that lasted over like 5 hours and ran into midnight including delays with the tourney itself and then Nintendo server maintenance. After that, I pretty much stopped bothering with online tournaments since that was a horrible experience.

 

[FullMoon]

I've been giving some serious thought to trying out this ladder, but I have premonitions of much headache and frustration, along with the fact that I get discouraged so easily. Where is this ladder, exactly? Is it here on Smashboards, or on Nintendo Dojo/All is Brawl? Or is it on some other kind of Smash site?

Yeah I don't know how you do it with this character in lag. Especially considering you frequently have to put up with bad connection due to country.

And who's the Zelda? Ven?

Ven, yes. I just played him and managed to win 2-0. I guess the matches with Macchiatto left me prepared for dealing with Zelda =P

I guess I just adapted to the lag to the point where sometimes I see people complain about the input lag while to me it's playing just fine.

 

[Ffamran]

Online tournaments are usually horribly run, and I don't trust people to not do things like tampering with their connection.

tbh I should probably just start playing the game with friends

I know only like 2 people who play SSB and I don't think either of them play competitively. As for my area having a SSB4 scene, I'll have to look into it, but I think Red Ryu said that Melee's the focus here. The only reason I want to compete is basically to prove something with Falco. That and it'd be fun playing offline since online's... yeah...

 

[Lavani]

When I say "with friends" I still mean people online because nobody plays video games around here unless it's Call of Duty.

When I went to buy Smash 3DS at release the people at Wal-Mart didn't even know what I was talking about, then after half an hour of talking to four different employees (jesus christ) one of them was like "Isn't that a children's game?"

like, really

Like I was saying earlier there's a monthly I could be going to halfway across the state, but I'm nowhere near confident enough.

 

[Locke 06]

The tournament was way too ambitious and poorly run. Online tourneys with 250+ people should not happen with only 1 person organizing.

Online tourneys are fun, but I wouldn't take them too seriously or have high expectations about their organization. If you lose in lag or win in lag, the match doesn't accurately depict what would happen offline. But they also have the benefit of convenience, so you take the good with the bad.

 

[Mocha]

Thanks for the link @ Ffamran and @ Spirst

Ven, yes. I just played him and managed to win 2-0. I guess the matches with Macchiatto left me prepared for dealing with Zelda =P

I guess I just adapted to the lag to the point where sometimes I see people complain about the input lag while to me it's playing just fine.

Out of curiosity, how did you play? Aggro, defensive, bit of both? Did you wait more for him to whiff something, or did you try to overwhelm him as soon as you could? I actually find this MU very weird on wifi for me, which is ironic, cause as I was telling Ricky, I'm horrible fighting my own mains, may that be dittos or each other.

 

[IsmaR]

I have not bothered with ladders/tourneys since Brawl days whatsoever. I did "one" online tournament for Smash 4, which was more like a challenge between some friends than anything.

IRL I play Monster Hunter and occasionally Pokemon with co-workers. Haven't been in touch with my local Smash scene since they moved to FB.

 

[FullMoon]

When I say "with friends" I still mean people online because nobody plays video games around here unless it's Call of Duty.

When I went to buy Smash 3DS at release the people at Wal-Mart didn't even know what I was talking about, then after half an hour of talking to four different employees (jesus christ) one of them was like "Isn't that a children's game?"

like, really

Like I was saying earlier there's a monthly I could be going to halfway across the state, but I'm nowhere near confident enough.

Wow.

When I was buying the game in a store that usually sells games before they're actually widely distributed here in Brazil, there was a long line of people wanting to buy the 3DS version and I think I got my copy because my dad had pre-ordered mine.

In fact I think I even saw some dude about my age or older crying of joy when he got his copy. It was pretty surreal.

Thanks for the link @ Ffamran and @ Spirst



Out of curiosity, how did you play? Aggro, defensive, bit of both? Did you wait more for him to whiff something, or did you try to overwhelm him as soon as you could? I actually find this MU very weird on wifi for me, which is ironic, cause as I was telling Ricky, I'm horrible fighting my own mains, may that be dittos or each other.

I was pretty aggressive for the most part but I did get a bit more defensive as my damage got higher, trying to bait his attacks and all that.

I also managed to bait two Farore's and punish them with Substitute and netting the kill each time, with the first one even giving me the win. Feels good, sis.

 

[Spirst]

When I say "with friends" I still mean people online because nobody plays video games around here unless it's Call of Duty.

When I went to buy Smash 3DS at release the people at Wal-Mart didn't even know what I was talking about, then after half an hour of talking to four different employees (jesus christ) one of them was like "Isn't that a children's game?"

like, really

Like I was saying earlier there's a monthly I could be going to halfway across the state, but I'm nowhere near confident enough.

Wow, that's awful.

One of the benefits of living in NYC I suppose is that stuff like this seldom happens. I went to the midnight release for both versions at Gamestop (blahblah gamestop is evil but whatever i just wanted smash) and the line, before 12 AM, had a number of people there most of whom were visibly in their 20s at least. And for the Wii U release, the people in the line were playing each other on the 3DS. Since I pre-ordered, I got this paper belt thing which admittedly looks quite nice with my Burger King crown.

 

[Mocha]

Wow.

I also managed to bait two Farore's and punish them with Substitute and netting the kill each time, with the first one even giving me the win. Feels good, sis.

Guuuurl...
you got some Guts to do that on wifi. That ain't Protean.

Maybe that's my problem on weefee. I respect my opponent's space too much, mostly cause I'm afraid to commit in lag. Then I miss opportunities. Even offline, my bf says my Greninja playstyle is "cat-and-mouse". Though coming from someone using Sonic and complaining about Greninja being "too fast", I find that ironic as hell.

 

[Fernosaur]

I'm going to preface this by saying that I dislike Miis so I never bothered to learn their specifics, but I know a bit on this subject. Off the top of my head...

Increasing height: Increases range, increases end lag, minorly increases damage?
Increasing weight: Decreases move speeds/jump height, increases damage, increases weight (duh)

There may be more, idk. People generally prefer min weight and 1/4 height iirc

Ah alright, yeah that explains why my Mii has so much end lag on everything. He's tallest/thinnest. I see the potential of the smallest/thinest, but I also think sacrificing the range is a bit disadvantageous. Like the taller Miis can actually have decent spacing whereas the smaller ones have a bit of a hard time with that, and some vertical combos are easier with the longer reach.

Anyways, thanks, I won't bother you about Miis anymore then

Nobody likes the poor things

 

[Lavani]

Ah alright, yeah that explains why my Mii has so much end lag on everything. He's tallest/thinnest. I see the potential of the smallest/thinest, but I also think sacrificing the range is a bit disadvantageous. Like the taller Miis can actually have decent spacing whereas the smaller ones have a bit of a hard time with that, and some vertical combos are easier with the longer reach.

Anyways, thanks, I won't bother you about Miis anymore then

Nobody likes the poor things

You should mess with a min weight 1/4 height one, I'll bet you'll change your mind. When I was first experimenting with them at release I tried tall/thin, going to short/thin made worlds of difference. Not to mention that their mobility at min height is absurd; Brawler gets more air speed than Shulk during Monado Speed.

I think the movesets themselves are somewhat interesting, I just think Miis look hella ghetto and out-of-place.

 

[Rickster]

When I say "with friends" I still mean people online because nobody plays video games around here unless it's Call of Duty.

When I went to buy Smash 3DS at release the people at Wal-Mart didn't even know what I was talking about, then after half an hour of talking to four different employees (jesus christ) one of them was like "Isn't that a children's game?"

like, really

Like I was saying earlier there's a monthly I could be going to halfway across the state, but I'm nowhere near confident enough.

This describes my school life very accurately. I'm the weird one that doesnt play Call of Duty, lol. It's sad that some people have no idea what the game is...even sadder when they say its a kids' game.

Welp bedtime for me. 6 hours of sleep lessgo.

 

[Spirst]

The best part about Miis for me is making ridiculous looking ones and loading them with OP equipment. I have a Gandhi mii (with min weight of course) that I stuck equipment to so he can do like 30%+ from one fsmash. Every now and then, I'll use it vs friends so I can see their reactions.

 

[Ffamran]

Huh, that's really, really interesting. Apparently Falco's Rapid Jab Finisher allows him to dodge Pac-Man's Bonus Fruit. I think it's the same dealio with Yoshi's er... which taunt is that? There's also Fox's Uair beating Captain Falcon's Knee... Is that because of priority? Wouldn't Captain Falcon's Knee have more priority or is it because Fox flipping upside skewed the hurtbox? Oh, and something weird happened where a ZSS just slid down the stage's slope. I think it was Falco's laser that might have done it, but I don't remember laser ever doing something like that. Perhaps a fast fall input? Replays are shared on the 3DS... Why does stupid stuff always happen to me?

 

[Fernosaur]

You should mess with a min weight 1/4 height one, I'll bet you'll change your mind. When I was first experimenting with them at release I tried tall/thin, going to short/thin made worlds of difference. Not to mention that their mobility at min height is absurd; Brawler gets more air speed than Shulk during Monado Speed.

I think the movesets themselves are somewhat interesting, I just think Miis look hella ghetto and out-of-place.

Yeah I messed around with the short Mii. The mobility is ridiculous, but I feel like I'd be betraying the character's identity I DON'T EXPECT YOU TO UNDERSTAND IT'S AN OC THING oTL

I actually had a bit of trouble controlling him, tbh, hahaha. I'm NOT used to characters being so fast.

 

[Lavani]

Huh, that's really, really interesting. Apparently Falco's Rapid Jab Finisher allows him to dodge Pac-Man's Bonus Fruit. I think it's the same dealio with Yoshi's er... which taunt is that? There's also Fox's Uair beating Captain Falcon's Knee... Is that because of priority? Wouldn't Captain Falcon's Knee have more priority or is it because Fox flipping upside skewed the hurtbox? Oh, and something weird happened where a ZSS just slid down the stage's slope. I think it was Falco's laser that might have done it, but I don't remember laser ever doing something like that. Perhaps a fast fall input? Replays are shared on the 3DS... Why does stupid stuff always happen to me?

The Yoshi thing was down taunt.

"Priority" is just a made-up term and not actually something that numerically exists. Usually when something has more priority it's because it's disjointed (you hit them while they don't reach you; your attack outprioritizes theirs). Worth noting that the first hit of Fox's uair uses his tail, which is disjointed.

Speaking of Z-axis dodges, I had Palutena dodge my Lucario's Aura Sphere charge when she dash grabbed to the right. The orb was overlapping her legs, but she didn't take damage or hitstun until her dash grab animation ended. Mind you, I was at low aura, but it was amusing.

 

[FullMoon]

Guuuurl...
you got some Guts to do that on wifi. That ain't Protean.

Maybe that's my problem on weefee. I respect my opponent's space too much, mostly cause I'm afraid to commit in lag. Then I miss opportunities. Even offline, my bf says my Greninja playstyle is "cat-and-mouse". Though coming from someone using Sonic and complaining about Greninja being "too fast", I find that ironic as hell.

Gurl, have you even watched my highlights video? What other reason would I have to use Substitute other than style (and super early kills)?

 

[Fernosaur]

I honestly had NO idea Greninja had a counterattack. Shows how much I care about the character.

 

[Lavani]

Greninja's counter is the best counter. Even if it's slow to come out, there's no better way to end a match than you and your opponent both flying off the top of the screen while a doll falls on the floor.

 

[Ffamran]

The Yoshi thing was down taunt.

"Priority" is just a made-up term and not actually something that numerically exists. Usually when something has more priority it's because it's disjointed (you hit them while they don't reach you; your attack outprioritizes theirs). Worth noting that the first hit of Fox's uair uses his tail, which is disjointed.

Speaking of Z-axis dodges, I had Palutena dodge my Lucario's Aura Sphere charge when she dash grabbed to the right. The orb was overlapping her legs, but she didn't take damage or hitstun until her dash grab animation ended. Mind you, I was at low aura, but it was amusing.

Cool, then why do people throw out the word priority? Falco's Fair is slightly disjointed, but not enough to say he can do wacky things with it. The disjoint is like a bit slightly away from his beak and he can hit people above his head. Fair's landing, however, is disjointed since I've hit people about a step away with it. Anyway, I digress.

Well, that sort of makes sense except for that the Captain Falcon was right next to me and the Knee looked like it connected. Is there a way to interrupt hit lag? Fox went from being close to the Capt. to being a bit away and upside down because of Uair and it killed him even though the Capt. had that kill.

The key going pass Falco was like, "Wut." It just happened and then, I just continued fighting. Also, apparently, Falco can survive a lot of punishment since the Pac-Man let me live pass 150% and I think I managed a 170% as Falco once. Falco being able to tank things was strange at first and then it became normal to me now.

Edit: I always thought Fox's Uair involved him doing a kick sort of like what Falco's Up Smash is now where he'd kick with one leg and follow with the other. Never knew it was his tail and then his leg(s).

 

[Alacion]

Did Bikram Yoga for the first time today. Difficulty of lifting doesn't even come close.

Limbs were numb after my first session today.

 

[IsmaR]

You're probably thinking it'll get easier with time/experience

It won't.

 

[2004Zilla]

I just ate a delicious pizza

WHAT DID YOU DO TO @ Fernosaur IMPOSTER

 

[FullMoon]

I finally got to the Top 100 in Anther's Ladder, geez, this took way too long.

It's also kinda sad that I'm only 80th yet the best Greninja in the ladder right now.

 

[Lavani]

Cool, then why do people throw out the word priority? Falco's Fair is slightly disjointed, but not enough to say he can do wacky things with it. The disjoint is like a bit slightly away from his beak and he can hit people above his head. Fair's landing, however, is disjointed since I've hit people about a step away with it. Anyway, I digress.

Well, that sort of makes sense except for that the Captain Falcon was right next to me and the Knee looked like it connected. Is there a way to interrupt hit lag? Fox went from being close to the Capt. to being a bit away and upside down because of Uair and it killed him even though the Capt. had that kill.

The key going pass Falco was like, "Wut." It just happened and then, I just continued fighting. Also, apparently, Falco can survive a lot of punishment since the Pac-Man let me live pass 150% and I think I managed a 170% as Falco once. Falco being able to tank things was strange at first and then it became normal to me now.

Edit: I always thought Fox's Uair involved him doing a kick sort of like what Falco's Up Smash is now where he'd kick with one leg and follow with the other. Never knew it was his tail and then his leg(s).

It's just an easy way of saying which move is more liable to win in potential trade situations. "Falco's fair outranges and beats out Meta Knight's nair" → "Falco's fair outprioritizes Meta Knight's nair"

Honestly it probably wouldn't be as bad for me if I labbed out the range on that thing (or maybe just played offline lol) but I swear I lose every trade with Falco's fair no matter who I'm playing.

I finally got to the Top 100 in Anther's Ladder, geez, this took way too long.

It's also kinda sad that I'm only 85th yet the best Greninja in the ladder right now.

Greninja is a bottom 5 character, didn't you know?

In all seriousness, nice job! Someone's gotta give the frog some rep

 

[Locke 06]

I finally got to the Top 100 in Anther's Ladder, geez, this took way too long.

It's also kinda sad that I'm only 85th yet the best Greninja in the ladder right now.

I didn't know you played Samus. o.o

Edit: Forgot... Good job!

Edit harder: @ Ffamran - I have to thank you. I'm starting to try and PP jab more to space better and I like it better than pivot ftilt (although I'm not great at it yet). Also, I'm uploading my Samus videos. It's such a sad matchup.

 

[Rizen]

@ Rickster It's hard to say what to work on on wifi. Mainly the things you already knew like ledge get ups being grabbed.

I'm back, anyone want to wifi on the wii u?

 

[Ffamran]

It's just an easy way of saying which move is more liable to win in potential trade situations. "Falco's fair outranges and beats out Meta Knight's nair" → "Falco's fair outprioritizes Meta Knight's nair"

Honestly it probably wouldn't be as bad for me if I labbed out the range on that thing (or maybe just played offline lol) but I swear I lose every trade with Falco's fair no matter who I'm playing.

Falco's Fair is probably the weirdest move next to Up Smash's shenanigans and Dtilt's disjoint that surprises people. Anyway, you just reminded me - I should have saved that replay - that apparently, Falco's Fair can beat Pac-Man's Power Pellet. There's a certain point where Pac-Man's Dash Attack and Power Pellet are invincible, right? At the start, it's easy to interrupt it. Well, I think I caught it in the middle, but if it was caught at the end then there's some serious **** going on with Falco's Fair. It eats a lot of things if it connects a hurtbox. Funny how Fair went from being a bad or mediocre move in Brawl and now is an essential part of Falco's game plan.

Welp, I can't wait for Fair to get nerfed again... It'll just be come at frame 20 move where people fall out the moment Falco touches it meaning 0% and the landing hit is remove. Yay...

Edit harder: @ Ffamran - I have to thank you. I'm starting to try and PP jab more to space better and I like it better than pivot ftilt (although I'm not great at it yet). Also, I'm uploading my Samus videos. It's such a sad matchup.

What I did I do?

 

[Lavani]

Anyway, you just reminded me - I should have saved that replay - that apparently, Falco's Fair can beat Pac-Man's Power Pellet. There's a certain point where Pac-Man's Dash Attack and Power Pellet are invincible, right?

@ Nu~ help

 

[Ffamran]

@ Nu~ help

I thought you knew all! Has my life been a lie?!

 

[Locke 06]

What I did I do?

You got me thinking about PP's for Mega Man outside of PP dsmash (which was the only thing I was using it for).

PP jab is different enough from pivot ftilt for me to want to learn how to use it.