Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Spirst]

I'd play Pikachu in Smash because I love Pokemon but I don't because I'm tired of seeing his face everywhere and hearing "PIKA PI!" over and over again.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

I'd play Pikachu in Smash because I love Pokemon but I don't because I'm tired of seeing his face everywhere and hearing "PIKA PI!" over and over again.

 

[Lavani]

I will say though, Thunder spiking at the cloud is an amazing change

Things like the uthrow>Thunder combo look so cool

 

[Ffamran]

I just unlocked Falco Charge... What are you supposed to do with it? I should check the data, but I don't even know if it's good for shield pressuring which it's probably not since it would just stall and the opponent would just punish him afterward. I don't even know if it has I-frames and I'm sure it doesn't have super armor. It's like a more ranged version of Side Smash, but weaker and has a horrible, horrible late hit. Should I mention it makes Falco's recovery worse and it doesn't meteor from what I checked?

Well, all I'm missing is Distant Fire Bird and Explosive Blaster.

Edit: Also Falco Phase, but I have Explosive Blaster now.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Always loved that mash-up with Butterfly. Makes the song incredibly. <3

 

[Soul.]

I will say though, Thunder spiking at the cloud is an amazing change

Things like the uthrow>Thunder combo look so cool

lmao when they thought it was a nerf but it wasn't
I was hype for Distant Thunder because usmash > thunder would come back but it didn't. Distant Thunder is meh

 

[Lavani]

I just unlocked Falco Charge... What are you supposed to do with it? I should check the data, but I don't even know if it's good for shield pressuring which it's probably not since it would just stall and the opponent would just punish him afterward. I don't even know if it has I-frames and I'm sure it doesn't have super armor. It's like a more ranged version of Side Smash, but weaker and has a horrible, horrible late hit. Should I mention it makes Falco's recovery worse and it doesn't meteor from what I checked?

Well, all I'm missing is Distant Fire Bird and Explosive Blaster.

I just tried it for the first time, since I've had it for a long time but ignored it since I heard the sideB customs sucked

This thing seems really bad lol

 

[Aunt Jemima]

 

[Ffamran]

I just tried it for the first time, since I've had it for a long time but ignored it since I heard the sideB customs sucked

This thing seems really bad lol

The only time when it's useful is on Smash Run or whatever special mode that makes Falco's recovery irrelevant since he can fly like beast with +500 Speed or whatever. If it had super armor or I-frames while it traveled, it would have been much better.

Anyway, Fast Fire Bird is literally a third jump and it's almost like Hydro Pump where it has really fast start up. On the 3DS, it's kind of hard to control, but I don't think it would be an issue on the Wii U. It does take into momentum, especially since it launches Falco so fast. Frankly, as of now, I would take Fast Fire Bird over default Fire Bird since it gives Falco two burst movement options: Falco Phantasm/Phase and Fast Fire Bird. As for recovery loss because it travels less, well, Falco didn't have a good recovery in Melee, so whatever. I think Fast Fire Bird travels the same distance as Fire Bird in Melee did and because of its lack of damage on start up, it really is Melee Fire Bird.

Seriously, it's literally a third jump with some start up. It reminds me of Air Hike in Devil May Cry 1, 3, and 4. The only time someone in DMC had a "instant" double jump was in DMC2 and Vergil in DMC3 and DmC since double jump was handled like every other game in DMC2 and Vergil of all people - he was considered to be better in using his demonic powers - couldn't "double jump". He could, but only through Trick Up which is almost instantaneous since it was a teleport instead of a summon a platform to jump off.

 

[FullMoon]

Good games, @ Nammy12 , those were a lot of fun. Playing on Gamer was really funny though.

The lag was getting really bad in that last match too.

 

[Nammy12]

Good games, @ Nammy12 , those were a lot of fun. Playing on Gamer was really funny though.

The lag was getting really bad in that last match too.

GG
Had a ton of fun.

I really need to get better lol.
Greninja's grab game is scary tho.

 

[Macchiato]

I feel like sakurai planned Diddy to be OP. Like he's the only character that has no good customs. The one character that's customs are horrible is the best character

 

[Lavani]

My limited Falco time tells me the only sets I'd consider on him are 1123, 1133, 3123, 3133. Both upB customs are upgrades depending on matchup and preference, Void Reflector is Void Reflector, and the Fox-like Blaster feels like it has rather low end lag though I haven't formally timed it.

 

[FullMoon]

GG
Had a ton of fun.

I really need to get better lol.
Greninja's grab game is scary tho.

I honestly don't know how I ended up playing so well. I did some combos and stuff I had never tried before and I even managed to get some nice stage spikes, which I almost never do usually.

Though now I can short hop consistently and oh my god, being able always short hop N-Air is just divine.

Also edgeguarding Air Slash with Substitute never gets old =V

 

[Aunt Jemima]

I feel like sakurai planned Diddy to be OP. Like he's the only character that has no good customs. The one character that's customs are horrible is the best character

Diddy gets nothing out of custom moves because his default specials are already outrageous.

 

[Lavani]

Battering Banana still technically helps him against Rosalina, and isn't otherwise bad in its own right since it combos into uair and stuff though its not otherwise better than the default banana.

Meta Knight, Jigglypuff, and Lucario also have pretty butt customs.

 

[Nammy12]

I honestly don't know how I ended up playing so well. I did some combos and stuff I had never tried before and I even managed to get some nice stage spikes, which I almost never do usually.

Though now I can short hop consistently and oh my god, being able always short hop N-Air is just divine.

Also edgeguarding Air Slash with Substitute never gets old =V

Just wondering, but how are you supposed to punish Greninja's dair on block?

 

[Lavani]

Just wondering, but how are you supposed to punish Greninja's dair on block?

You don't, you punish it on whiff. It's safe on block.

 

[Mocha]

Just wondering, but how are you supposed to punish Greninja's dair on block?

Roll

 

[Aunt Jemima]

LOL.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

I feel like sakurai planned Diddy to be OP. Like he's the only character that has no good customs. The one character that's customs are horrible is the best character

Jigglypuff's customs aren't exactly anything to brag about and she obviously isn't top tier

Plus, Sheik and Rosalina are also top/high and omg have you seen Rosalina's stupid Luma teleport and Falco laser??? Sheik also gets a grenade that pulls her opponent toward her to continue combos or get a tipper usmash. I really don't think he planned for Diddy to be broken if those two are very close in the tier list and get helpful customs.
But who knows, this is Sakurai. He's done crazier things than plan a broken character

 

[FullMoon]

Yeah Greninja's D-Air is completely safe on block, that's the one thing that it has going fo rit. That and it comboes into F-Air or B-Air. It's a situational move but I quite like it, I tend to use it a lot to get back to the ground, which is kind of a bad habit.

I've fought Shulk a lot before, both in Anther's Ladder and between friends, so I think that one is the MU I know the most about.

I also didn't know that you can block the 5-Volt's attack in Gamer, or at least I managed to powershield it the one time I got hit by it.

 

[Lavani]

Plus, Sheik and Rosalina are also top/high and omg have you seen Rosalina's stupid Luma teleport and Falco laser??? Sheik also gets a grenade that pulls her opponent toward her to continue combos or get a tipper usmash. I really don't think he planned for Diddy to be broken if those two are very close in the tier list and get helpful customs.

To be fair, Luma Warp doesn't cover the inbetween like the other customs do (I've actually been using Power Luma Shot when I play her with customs more often lately), and Shooting Star Bit is really good but it has its limitations (I'd go quote a post detailing this but I'm lazy). Sheik's Gravity Grenades have good potential reward but they're still easy to see coming, and the hitbox doesn't linger or have a vacuum effect like the default does; imo her good custom is Penetrating Needles, which let her bypass Luma/Pikmin/Bonus Fruit/etc meatshielding and have dumb shield damage (three needles can = nearly 34% shield damage; shields have 50 HP). Also pierces and actually reflects Gordos, though that's w/e

I also didn't know that you can block the 5-Volt's attack in Gamer, or at least I managed to powershield it the one time I got hit by it.

I'm told it's an instant shieldbreak if you don't powershield but don't quote me on that, I don't have a Wii U.

 

[Furret]

I wanted to try and learn Pikachu but gave up on it. He's so hard to use for me, I don't wanna learn all this Quick Attack stuff...

Play pit

 

[Macchiato]

Should I learn how to play bowser jr?

 

[Nammy12]

Yeah Greninja's D-Air is completely safe on block, that's the one thing that it has going fo rit. That and it comboes into F-Air or B-Air. It's a situational move but I quite like it, I tend to use it a lot to get back to the ground, which is kind of a bad habit.

I've fought Shulk a lot before, both in Anther's Ladder and between friends, so I think that one is the MU I know the most about.

I also didn't know that you can block the 5-Volt's attack in Gamer, or at least I managed to powershield it the one time I got hit by it.

I haven't really faced that many Greninjas before.
I really should play more people.

I think I'll give Anther's Ladder a try.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

To be fair, Luma Warp doesn't cover the inbetween like the other customs do (I've actually been using Power Luma Shot when I play her with customs more often lately), and Shooting Star Bit is really good but it has its limitations (I'd go quote a post detailing this but I'm lazy). Sheik's Gravity Grenades have good potential reward but they're still easy to see coming, and the hitbox doesn't linger or have a vacuum effect like the default does; imo her good custom is Penetrating Needles, which let her bypass Luma/Pikmin/Bonus Fruit/etc meatshielding and have dumb shield damage (three needles can = nearly 34% shield damage; shields have 50 HP). Also pierces and actually reflects Gordos, though that's w/e


I'm told it's an instant shieldbreak if you don't powershield but don't quote me on that, I don't have a Wii U.

Oh yeah I'm totally aware they're not *broken* or anything, just really good haha.

Btw how are you using Power Luma Shot? That's the custom of hers I'm most interested in. I thought it might be good to cover a landing or use for edgeguarding, but default can cover a landing and also edgeguard by using an attack with Luma so I'm not sure what you can achieve with it that default doesn't already do.

 

[FullMoon]

I haven't really faced that many Greninjas before.
I really should play more people.

I think I'll give Anther's Ladder a try.

Well, you still won't see much Greninja there from what I've seen. I think most of the Greninja I've seen there are people who frequent the Greninja boards.

 

[Lavani]

Btw how are you using Power Luma Shot? That's the custom of hers I'm most interested in. I thought it might be good to cover a landing or use for edgeguarding, but default can cover a landing and also edgeguard by using an attack with Luma so I'm not sure what you can achieve with it that default doesn't already do.

Luma Shot vs Power Luma Shot is really just like Samus' Charge Shot vs Dense Charge Shot, really; it's slower, but it's stronger and it lingers, and Luma doesn't stop on hit, so it can actually hit multiple times if your opponent screws up badly or you throw them back into Luma. Just like the default, Luma becomes invincible at full charge too.

I think it's useful for stuffing approaches and controlling space against characters that want to be in her face, like Sonic and C.Falcon.

 

[Macchiato]

So I'm gonna pick up bowser jr

 

[UkeNicky]

Should I learn how to play bowser jr?

No

 

[Lavani]

sideB>upB>hammer is the truth

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

So I'm gonna pick up bowser jr

Have fun~ Whatever you do don't use Wendy tho cuz she's tacky af lol

 

[UkeNicky]

Have fun~ Whatever you do don't use Wendy tho cuz she's tacky af lol

Wendy plus Up Taunt is awkward

 

[McKnightlíght]

Add meeee. (Anyone can, really).

But I'm gonna go play piano. So...

@ Lavani - I don't know much about Brawl/didn't follow or play it seriously, but according to my source*, his aerials combo'd into each other, better airspeed, a quick bow glitch, and item tossing shenanigans up the butt. All of which went poof.

*Spirst

A fellow piano player eh? I was Chopin someone like you would show up, this thread needed a major improvement.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Have fun~ Whatever you do don't use Wendy tho cuz she's tacky af lol

 

[FullMoon]

By the way, I think I'm starting a habit of using Substitute as a taunt. That pose Greninja makes while using it just works too well for a taunt. As far as I'm concerned he has four taunts now =V

 

[SBphiloz4]

I'm finding now incredibly unfortunate that my Falco is feeling really solid, but I don't think he'll make Zelda's MUs much better as a secondary. :/

My Zero Skill Spamus is trash too because lol high tier don't want to put the effort in actually learning her instead of styling. >u>

Maybe I'll counter pick Ike opponents with Falco, because last time I fought my friend's Ike, my queen got dominated. But idk feels like a secondary that might not do much. :^(

 

[McKnightlíght]

By the way, I think I'm starting a habit of using Substitute as a taunt. That pose Greninja makes while using it just works too well for a taunt. As far as I'm concerned he has four taunts now =V

Zelda has like 10 bro.

 

[Ffamran]

My limited Falco time tells me the only sets I'd consider on him are 1123, 1133, 3123, 3133. Both upB customs are upgrades depending on matchup and preference, Void Reflector is Void Reflector, and the Fox-like Blaster feels like it has rather low end lag though I haven't formally timed it.

Conda said that Falco's Burst Blaster does less damage, has less range, and less end lag compared to Fox's default Blaster while Fox's Impact Blaster has less end lag than Falco's default Blaster. I think that's what he said. As for Explosive Blaster, Shaya used it more for edgeguarding. If anything, Explosive Blaster is like Burst Grenade or Gravity Grenade - that's the one that pulls you in, right?

Accele-Reflector is weird... It looks faster, but I believe it's slower since it comes out at frame 7 instead of frame 5 like default Reflector and I think it might have slight less end lag to compensate. The lowered knockback, however, kills it. I wouldn't use even against Duck Hunt, Link, Toon Link, etc. because of that lack of knockback. Reflector Void - it's not Void Reflector for some reason since when I unlocked it, the move was called Reflector Void -, however, has a use for kills, especially as another aerial kill option and the knockback is great, but Falco will have to rely on Ftilt (frame 6) and Dtilt (frame 7) for faster, safer spacing now since it comes out at frame 9.

Then there's Falco Phase which I feel like is play style dependent and probably match up dependent. Some people don't care for Falco Phantasm's meteor and damage, so they might want an I-frame dash. I could it being used against say, Duck Hunt to go through their projectiles at the right time, but I don't know about the end lag and landing lag. As for recovering, it's probably the safest option since Falco won't be hit at all, but being able to meteor and punish someone for messing up their off stage follow up is nice. And then there's Falco Charge. Why? Fox Burst is better because of the explosion, right? Hell, why not give Falco the opposite of Wolf Flash and have him go diagonally downwards like Wizard's Dropkick and call it Falco Dive or Falco Swoop or something?

For me, 1111 would work whenever since it doesn't have much of an issue, but I would run something with X12X or X22X since it would allow him to access to two burst movements. Default Blaster (1) and Burst (3) would be dependent on the player. Some people want the hit stun and other want the fast DPS. Default Reflector (1) and Reflector (3) are sort of dependent on play style, but more dependent on match up. For one, I might take default against Captain Falcon and Sonic because of their speed and having a ranged and fast spacer would be nice, but I would take Reflector Void for Ganondorf and Fox since Ganondorf's lack of projectiles and being able to launch him would be nice and Fox won't be camping much like Link and even then, it might be negligible, so damage and knockback would be better.

For deep, off-stage gameplay, it'd be X13X and X23X or X11X and X21X. Why default Fire Bird? Some characters attack fast and it might not be worth it to have that chance of screwing up and charging a Distant Fire Bird only for them to come back and gimp you or you're off stage and they can gimp you quickly. Case in point, Captain Falcon, the Pits, Luigi, and Ganondorf. It might be better to stay on stage with them while against say, Mega Man, Greninja?, and Mario, it might be all right to have a slow recovery. Granted, Falco shouldn't be recovering too close to the stage because of stage strikes, but at the right angle and the right distance, they would never want to go that deep and lose a stock because they were desperate and/or greedy for a kill.

Hmm... I should post this in the Falco customs thread...