Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Erotic&Heretic]

So I had a teleburn KO today. Off the top of the screen. Against an opponent on ground level. Who only had 50 damage.

Granted he was charging a Smash attack, but still. I'm not entirely a fan of the design choice of putting the best kill move she has there while everything else is what it is.

Had this too. The smash attack your opponent was charging was an Up-smash, right?

 

[ZombieBran]

To me, Zelda is still a character with a quite good game design (there's flaws, of course), but absolutely not made for competitive plays.

Unless they drastically change her, she'll probably never be good in official Smash Bros games.
I'm okay with that. I just don't want facepalm worthy design choices like the ones we've been given for the last three games.

I hope they learn that balancing a character for FFA and 1v1 is simply not possible.

 

[Rion]

Ahh that thread title change... I am guilty as charged. Bad habit most likely!

I actually would like to get better at timing her Ftilt really, since it's actually had favourable trade offs compared to FSmash, and kills at a "average" %. Though the accuracy required is a bit unforgiving, especially if you miss oy.

To be fair about the Up B killing at 50%, the initial hit -does- send your opponent really high up in the first place, so sending through to the blast zone at that height isn't too much of a stretch!

Also, isn't it true that while you're charging Smash Attacks, you get much more knockback if you're hit during the charge? I could have sworn I read that somewhere.

 

[ZombieBran]

20% more knockback when hit in the middle of a charge, yes. Maybe they increased that.

 

[Rion]

Ergh, I just can't do tap jump on with the 3DS. It's just too sensitive with this pad.

I'm already imagining the offputness of going back to a gamecube controller in a couple months. Ahh...

 

[KuroganeHammer]

20% more knockback when hit in the middle of a charge, yes. Maybe they increased that.

Let me check~

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

To be fair about the Up B killing at 50%, the initial hit -does- send your opponent really high up in the first place, so sending through to the blast zone at that height isn't too much of a stretch!

It's quite weird, I recorded the video just for that. Maybe this have to do with how DI is handled in this game (but it's called vectoring now, right? Me and the smash jargon...)

 

[Rion]

Don't forget in that KO, you hit Lucina while she was charging a Smash (therefore, making it much easier to knock her back)!

And that definitely could have been vectored to survive as there was no "death bolt" so to speak. Usually if there's just the cannonball trail, it's survivable unless you vector incorrectly.

BUT I see your point, haha.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Don't forget in that KO, you hit Lucina while she was charging a Smash (therefore, making it much easier to knock her back)!

And that definitely could have been vectored to survive as there was no "death bolt" so to speak. Usually if there's just the cannonball trail, it's survivable unless you vector incorrectly.

BUT I see your point, haha.

Oh, I didn't knew that charging a Smash made characters easier to send! (that damn Little Mac and his super-armors...) But yeah, I definitely put that on bad vectoring, it was an Up-Smash after all.

 

[Kataefi]

She's really hurt by the mechanics in this game. She just can't land, and teleport has too much lag to land safely against the faster characters. I fought against a very good sheik and I just didn't know what to do =/ I had to rely on nayru's and always shoot for the ledge every time I was launched to avoid followups.

Saying this I think Dsmash is underrated, and I seem to clip a lot of limbs OoS. This is a godsend against mac, who can't recover well from it even if it doesn't outright kill him.

They definitely put in work to make her better... like I think overall she has much better range and you can really abuse her normals/phantom to space, but kick nerfs, attempting to land on the ground and her overall lack of combos hurt her a lot. I mean someone like falcon is heavier, faster, has legit combos and also a sweetspot he can combo into... >__>

Honestly I think they should have kept SH double bair/fair, and not make them THAT laggy. Thank GOD for nayru's which is great this time!

I think throws into teleport, dtilt into kicks/uair/teleport are the way forward! I also think she needs to be way more aggressive off stage with dair because she can flawlessly recover and intercept loads of recoveries! I'm getting decent kills here!

 

[Rizen]

Doesn't the extra launch distance only apply to charging Usmashes?

 

[BJN39]

In this game, if your opponent is charging an Usmash, they're automatically vectoring the wrong way for a FW reappear as well if they're still holding up.
So, if smashes really do weaken you temporarily, then they were ALSO stacking on bad vectoring if they were holding up. So, don't charge an Usmash near Zelda.

Tbh that super early KO just looks so good tho... <3

 

[ZombieBran]

Shh, let's not tell anyone outside of the Zelda boards this.

(but who even charges usmashes for that long and expects to connect against a character that can teleport?!)

 

[Meru.]

i am scared this will be unplayable

Why would it be unplayable based on this? Your ping is amazing!

Even though she's still bad, it makes me happy to see Zelda evolve from only having two moves in Melee to having usable projectiles, grab combos, and no more jokes about down-B being her best move.

I'm probably the only one, but I think I like Melee Zelda the best actually. She only has three moves she used (Fair, Bair Dsmash) but at least those moves were REALLY good and reliable. Surely she was still awful since having only three moves is not enough to compete, but I actually like that better than her Brawl and Smash 4 version where she doesn't have any move that's really good. Her moves are either bad or just ok.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Why would it be unplayable based on this? Your ping is amazing!

it's usually lower than that, but it still has over 9000 miles between us, but it was ok, surprisingly.

I'm capped now though.

I should have been uncapped 5 hours ago, but I can't even load speedtest.net to show you all how bad my internet is while capped. ;___;

 

[Rion]

Oof, I don't think I've been bodied this hard in a while.

Was playing this Lucario player named Max. At first he was switching around to different characters, which was kind of a 50~% chance of me winning, but then he switched to Lucario... and then well you know.

Yeah, it's a very tough match up. I hadn't really fought good Lucarios until this one.

There's nothing worse than watching the "death bolt" animation on Lucario when you smash him but him surviving. All that added % for aura serious really, really hurts. I've definitely had some under 100% deaths because he got high % but I couldn't finish him off. Particularly Force Palm, Aura Sphere, Bair, F/DSmash.

I won twice, one time was because he SD'd by accident so he was down a stock.

So many hard to punish moves! And no Dair gimping since Extreme Speed goes ridiculously far after a certain % plus it has hitboxes now...

I was certainly nervous, haha. But it was a very interesting thrashing that made me want to keep an eye out for this particular character in the future. There were a lot of bad habits I should try to stop doing when I'm panicking like rolling excessively or airdodging too close to the ground when I mean to land then shield (that's a killer).

For the most part though, at least they were sort of close-ish games and I didn't get -utterly- crushed (maybe except at the end, when I got 2 stocked twice though, sigh~)! He was definitely reading me like a book.

I wish I got to play him more though. Maybe after a nap, hahaha.

 

[Toadallstar2]

I notice a lot of the time with Zelda's death bolts, they will survive. idk if it's the same for others.

Yas at that technique where I can fsmash and ftilt, it has been useful already.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I'm pretty sure that Lucario's side-B is reflectable, and that's quite surprising.

 

[ZombieBran]

I notice a lot of the time with Zelda's death bolts, they will survive. idk if it's the same for others.

It is the same for everyone.
And sometimes they die without the red lightning of death.

It probably doesn't take into account VI/DI/whatever it's called. And it'd probably be unreliable anyway.

 

[Toadallstar2]

If we didn't have our teleport, our kill power would have went down. Our smashes aren't as good as they once were for numerous reasons. At least with the playstyle of this game, we don't spam them as much as the smashes are fresher.

 

[ZombieBran]

The real reason our fsmashes are always fresh is because it's so unreliable that using it to rack up damage is dubious. =(

 

[PrimalCarnage]

Aww, I like fsmash. Sure it's annoying that people will get knocked out of it, but it still leaves you in a good position for a dash or grab. Now up smash and down smash... there's just no positives there.

I feel like FW is only a good kill-move in certain match ups. Mostly projectile spam characters. It's a god send against Duck Hunt Dog or Rosalina for example. Against speedy characters not so much. Dair, fsmash and ftilt are more reliable for them. Still a good tool tho.

 

[ZombieBran]

D smash has a great launch angle.

I really miss the range though.

 

[PrimalCarnage]

I have fond memories of dsmashes disjointed hitbox. That plus the dtilt lock into dsmash made it my least fresh smash! It's range nerf and the buff to rolls has killed it's usage for me.

But yeah, I do still like the low horizontal angle, against like Little Mac I should probably at least try and hit him with it.

 

[Toadallstar2]

Yeah the nerfed range is disappointing. I noticed this with every character though, the range has been reduced. I guess for more up-close combat kind of battle.

Dair is our new best friend though, I'm starting to incorporate it into grounded opponents too

 

[Meru.]

Range has been universally reduced. Dsmash is amazing and imo by far her best smash since it's really fast, strong, still has decent range and hits reliably, unlike her other smashes. Usmash is her worst now... I want Brawl Usmash back x_x.

 

[Upke]

I'm probably the only one, but I think I like Melee Zelda the best actually. She only has three moves she used (Fair, Bair Dsmash) but at least those moves were REALLY good and reliable. Surely she was still awful since having only three moves is not enough to compete, but I actually like that better than her Brawl and Smash 4 version where she doesn't have any move that's really good. Her moves are either bad or just ok.

Oh believe me, I'm a big fan of Melee Zelda. <3

 

[ZombieBran]

Mega Man got our old usmash range and I want to steal it from him.

 

[ぱみゅ]

http://smashboards.com/threads/questions-ask-me-id-love-to-help.372465/#post-17749936

When hasn't this ever applied to Zelda, lol?

The thing that concerns me about that one post is that her kicks ****CAN**** get combo'ed into.
[/snip]

 

[Kataefi]

Fsmash is still really good tho! I love it! It kills well and seems they made hurt boxes overall larger/ range on everyone's attacks smaller so you can catch more things with it now.

It's not so hot during trades so I'm trying to avoid using it against Mac and greninja who seem to plough through it with their attacks. Ftilt is the way to go here imo!!

usmash on the other hand IS awful! I miss the brawl one ;_;

 

[mountain_tiger]

My basic strategy nowadays is basically lots of spaced ground pokes. The issue with only the first two or three hits of FSmash connecting, whilst annoying, doesn't hugely detriment Zelda IMO - you just have to be careful about not doing the move too close your opponent. DTilt into FSmash is something I'm starting to do a lot more often.

As for recovering, I learned the hard way that there's literally no good reason not to be aiming for the ledge. A decent chance of being gimped vs a practical certainty of being gimped? Clearly a tough choice lol.

She's still fairly obviously low tier, but with FTilt, DTilt, FSmash, Dair gimping and the occasional USmash, I think she has the tools to have at least a vague chance of competing.

 

[*JuriHan*]

My basic strategy nowadays is basically lots of spaced ground pokes. The issue with only the first two or three hits of FSmash connecting, whilst annoying, doesn't hugely detriment Zelda IMO - you just have to be careful about not doing the move too close your opponent. DTilt into FSmash is something I'm starting to do a lot more often.

As for recovering, I learned the hard way that there's literally no good reason not to be aiming for the ledge. A decent chance of being gimped vs a practical certainty of being gimped? Clearly a tough choice lol.

She's still fairly obviously low tier, but with FTilt, DTilt, FSmash, Dair gimping and the occasional USmash, I think she has the tools to have at least a vague chance of competing.

yeah just go for the ledge, she's so floaty vs a fast opponent you'll get hit with a dash attack or something before you land and get juggled.

 

[Rion]

So I discovered a nice place to practice my Zelda (actual practice mind you), at the Allisbrawl/Nintendodojo Freeplay chatroom.

It's pretty interesting~! I had a lot of good matches today vs a particularly tough Palutena and a Mario as well.

Palutena
I don't think I've ever had to deal with such a fast Palutena before... they were definitely outplaying me a bunch. I was getting grabbed a crapton as usual, oy. A lot of pivot grabs when I sat in shield. Lots of fast fall Fairs and Jab1 pokes to grabs/fairs/etc. She's also tough to edgeguard! So no Dair gimping there. Also Christ, I forgot how fast her Teleport is. It's tough to punish!

Surprisingly, I got hit a ton by Auto Reticle. That was no good. I definitely could have reacted to those much better with Farore punishes, but my mind was more focused on trying to not get so mixed up all the time, haha. Her ground speed is very much a bane towards us.

Thankfully, I did manage to win a few here and there, so I wasn't completely incompetent. I could definitely use Zelda's pivot grab much more.

Mario
Ahh, Mario. It was almost like fighting a Jiggly with how many bairs I had to deal with. I seem to usually get very nervous around "walls" of aerials like this since punishing them is a bit difficult as it requires a bit of patience and a lot of accuracy (it's doable though)! Utilt is a lot more annoying that I imagined, especially out of a dthrow.

Dair-ing Mario however, is rather easy heh heh! Though he was starting to catch on. It's amazing how good Zelda can be at punishing these types of recoveries where a trade really is so much in your favor in this situation.

Mario can be pretty slick though. He can definitely run circles around you with his aerial game and leave you a bit flustered if you aren't careful. Just make sure to give yourself space to compose yourself when you're getting a bit too pressured.

A few things that come to mind recently from these:

- Nayru's from above can be a bit finicky. It does not make you fall very fast, so if you do it too early you'll kinda just be floating there like a sitting duck. I sometimes panic and mash Nayru's when I'm getting aerial combo'd, and I get mixed results most of the time. Hmm...

- Roll Cancel Pivot Grab =

The range.

Is real.

Done!

 

[Rizen]

AiB will have much better players than randoms. I went there for Brawl matches.
^Nice grab range.

 

[Rion]

Pivot grabs.

Pivot grabs more.

Pivot grabs for days.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

this technique is super easy to do, it's greati just run, turn around and mash my Y and R button like I'm DACUS'ing lal

 

[Rion]

F'ing lol at the thread name change, ahahaha.

 

[ZombieBran]

Now that Zelda has magnet hands, I can almost forgive Sakurai for not actually speeding up her grab.

 

[BJN39]

Now that Zelda has magnet hands, I can almost forgive Sakurai for not actually speeding up her grab.

buT... Not quite. ^_^

 

[Rizen]

Who changes the title? Fujin was banned.