Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Locke 06]

My mind just exploded. Splatoon was amazing. I was good, not great, but I can see how matchmaking can make a huge difference. My teammates were generally poor strategists; I sat at a choke hold with a completely uncovered area behind me fending off opponents with a sniper, and yet nobody wanted to go paint the 1/4th of the map that was unpainted. I know it's hard to look at the map and play, but you gotta look down every once and a while. Snipers aren't meant to paint the map, which is good design.

Highlights:
-10 kill round
- Balanced team vs team of 4 paint rollers. Snipe city.

 

[Jestar]

@ Shrokatii You just summoned a demon to this place.

Now I gotta go bring light to his lair and send him into the pit where it burns.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

what are the op guns so I can main them?

 

[Furret]

good evening everyone

I merely in my torture chamber, chaining up 14 year old squid girls for.... Future use....
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

would they just turn to ink and get out?

 

[Gay Ginger]

Technically most moves are unsafe on shield that's true. Ffamram asked about endlag (although I guess he wanted to talk about falco), not what's safe on shields so I meant U/Fsmash don't have horrible endlag (as in lag after the hitbubbles end) but if they wiff they are very laggy. Where Zelda's landing lag and specials have bad endlag.

Sorry I don't really see the usefulness in making a distinction between end lag frames and not talking about how safe/unsafe they are on whiff and shield.

But let's look at her frame data.

Jab hits on 11, 13, 15 with a FAF of 24 = 9 frames of end lag
Dash attack hits on 6-10 with a FAF of 39 = 29 frames of end lag
Forward tilt hits on 12-13 with a FAF of 40 = 27 frames of end lag
Down tilt hits on 5-11 with a FAF of 25 = 14 frames of end lag
Up tilt hits on 7-18 with a FAF of 33 = 15 frames of end lag
Forward smash hits on 16, 18, 20, 22, 24 with a FAF of 50 = 26 frames of end lag
Down smash hits on 5-6 & 13-14 with a FAF of 41 = 27 frames of end lag
Up smash his on 9, 11, 13, 15, 25, 27, 29, 32 with a FAF of 64 = 32 frames of end lag

N-air hits on 6-7, 10-11, 14-15, 18-19, 22-23 with a FAF of 51 = 28 frames of end lag (and 22 frames of landing lag)
Forward Lightning Kick hits on 9-13 with a FAF of 53 = 40 frames of end lag (23 frames of landing lag)
Back Lightning Kick hits on 6-9 with a FAF of 53 = 44 frames of end lag (25 frames of landing lag)
D-air hits on 14-24 with a FAF of 45 = 21 frames of end lag (21 frames of landing lag)
"Finger bang" hits on 14-16 with a FAF of 55 = 39 frames of end lag (22 frames of landing lag)

Standing grab hits on 10-11 with a FAF of 38 = 27 frames of end lag
Dash grab hits on 11-12 with a FAF of 47 = 35 frames of end lag
Pivot grab hits on 11-12 with a FAF of 44 = 32 frames of end lag

We know her specials are super laggy.

She only has 3 moves that have less than 20 frames of end lag (and only one with less than 10 frames).
Not counting her specials, she has 13 moves with 20+ frames of end lag, 6 moves with 30+ frames of end lag, and 2 moves with 40+ frames of end lag (which increases if we include her specials)

Any way you look at it, her end lag is atrocious.

 

[Antonykun]

Unless we talk about SMASH pairings lol should we?

rugby shirt x Ness
aka blue and yellow shipping

 

[Rizen]

Cool, I'll make the room

GGs My thumb is getting sore lol.

 

[EODM07]

what are the op guns so I can main them?

Funny thing is, each seems balanced. But I feel like the Splat Roller is VERY good. You can deflect projectiles with it, plus if you hit someone with it. It's an instant-kill, but if you are using it against another Splat Roller, high chance is you'll get killed at the same time.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

what are the op guns so I can main them?

reposting because I'm an ass

also yeah re: zelda's end lag, everything aside from jab is unsafe on shield.

Even your precious dtilt.

Funny thing is, each seems balanced. But I feel like the Splat Roller is VERY good. You can deflect projectiles with it, plus if you hit someone with it. It's an instant-kill, but if you are using it against another Splat Roller, high chance is you'll get killed at the same time.

wtf is this **** melee or something

 

[Koiba]

rugby shirt x Ness
aka blue and yellow shipping

I looked up villagerxness and this is what I found

Other than that it's really cute (no rugby shirt )

 

[Estel Elessar]

GGs My thumb is getting sore lol.

Fun games man. It's hard to get past those Link projectiles lol.

Any tips?

 

[Lozjam]

would they just turn to ink and get out?

Nope, I have already made the proper modifications to my torture chamber. As to what modifications, I will not say, for I don't want any girl to get out. Let's just say that it will keep the inklings in and it will allow me to... Do my business...
However, I need to correct you, Inklings turn into squids, not Ink.

reposting because I'm an ***

Ah, Aerodrome. *Licks Lips*
I wouldn't mind having you visit my little utopia in my torture chamber...
BAHAHAHAhAHA!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Hmm.

No.

 

[Kofu]

@ kenniky I can play now. It'd be easier for me if we just communicated here :V

 

[Rizen]

She only has 3 moves that have less than 20 frames of end lag (and only one with less than 10 frames).
Not counting her specials, she has 13 moves with 20+ frames of end lag, 6 moves with 30+ frames of end lag, and 2 moves with 40+ frames of end lag (which increases if we include her specials)

Any way you look at it, her end lag is atrocious.

We're throwing out subjective terms like bad and atrocious. I agree with what you're saying but to me atrocious is more like Link's Usmash. 20 frames of endlag depending on the move isn't terrible but at this point we're arguing terminology.

 

[Antonykun]

I looked up villagerxness and this is what I found

Other than that it's really cute (no rugby shirt )

someone ships daisy shirt x ness pretty hard

found this as well

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Funny thing is, each seems balanced. But I feel like the Splat Roller is VERY good. You can deflect projectiles with it, plus if you hit someone with it. It's an instant-kill, but if you are using it against another Splat Roller, high chance is you'll get killed at the same time.

If I recall, only the dynamo roller can do that. They mentioned that when they were showing the dynamo roller after all.

 

[Koiba]

someone ships daisy shirt x ness pretty hard

found this as well

Daisy shirt is my choice of villager so I ain't mad. But seriously this is adorable

 

[Lozjam]

Hmm.

No.

Come on! Just think of the old times we had, me and you.
Remember when I kidnapped your girls here, and you went to rescue them. And then things went steamy with you, myself, Ganondorf, and the girls I kidnapped?!
Those were good times, why can't we relive that?
I will even bring the Chateau Romani, just the way you liked it during that time

 

[Indigo Jeans]

smash stories
how can you have an empty user title

It is a mystery

Just one sentence?

boooooo

I was leaving to work in ten minutes

 

[Gay Ginger]

We're throwing out subjective terms like bad and atrocious. I agree with what you're saying but to me atrocious is more like Link's Usmash. 20 frames of endlag depending on the move isn't terrible but at this point we're arguing terminology.

Maybe 20 frames isn't terrible if you look at each move individually, but when you look at her move-set as a whole and almost everything is 20+ then it's terrible imo

 

[warionumbah2]

Mfw MK gets shipped with weaboo emblem

 

[PUK]

Sorry I don't really see the usefulness in making a distinction between end lag frames and not talking about how safe/unsafe they are on whiff and shield.

But let's look at her frame data.

Jab hits on 11, 13, 15 with a FAF of 24 = 9 frames of end lag
Dash attack hits on 6-10 with a FAF of 39 = 29 frames of end lag
Forward tilt hits on 12-13 with a FAF of 40 = 27 frames of end lag
Down tilt hits on 5-11 with a FAF of 25 = 14 frames of end lag
Up tilt hits on 7-18 with a FAF of 33 = 15 frames of end lag
Forward smash hits on 16, 18, 20, 22, 24 with a FAF of 50 = 26 frames of end lag
Down smash hits on 5-6 & 13-14 with a FAF of 41 = 27 frames of end lag
Up smash his on 9, 11, 13, 15, 25, 27, 29, 32 with a FAF of 64 = 32 frames of end lag

N-air hits on 6-7, 10-11, 14-15, 18-19, 22-23 with a FAF of 51 = 28 frames of end lag (and 22 frames of landing lag)
Forward Lightning Kick hits on 9-13 with a FAF of 53 = 40 frames of end lag (23 frames of landing lag)
Back Lightning Kick hits on 6-9 with a FAF of 53 = 44 frames of end lag (25 frames of landing lag)
D-air hits on 14-24 with a FAF of 45 = 21 frames of end lag (21 frames of landing lag)
"Finger bang" hits on 14-16 with a FAF of 55 = 39 frames of end lag (22 frames of landing lag)

Standing grab hits on 10-11 with a FAF of 38 = 27 frames of end lag
Dash grab hits on 11-12 with a FAF of 47 = 35 frames of end lag
Pivot grab hits on 11-12 with a FAF of 44 = 32 frames of end lag

We know her specials are super laggy.

She only has 3 moves that have less than 20 frames of end lag (and only one with less than 10 frames).
Not counting her specials, she has 13 moves with 20+ frames of end lag, 6 moves with 30+ frames of end lag, and 2 moves with 40+ frames of end lag (which increases if we include her specials)

Any way you look at it, her end lag is atrocious.

you know when i look to rob frame data or metaknight landlag it's okay, really. I mean if you're not shiek, ZSS and a few other you should not try to throw move for nothing anyway

 

[Soul.]

It is a mystery

**** dammit

 

[Rizen]

Maybe 20 frames isn't terrible if you look at each move individually, but when you look at her move-set as a whole and almost everything is 20+ then it's terrible imo

It's pointless to argue about what defines terrible. Personally I'd say her lag is mediocre and characters like ganon are terrible. But there are characters who are better than Zelda with worse frame data, like Shulk. Safe on shield isn't based entirely on endlag anyway, so looking at moves as good or bad based on endlag isn't the full story. You say terrible, I say mediocre. Tomato/tomoto.

 

[SBphiloz4]

We talking ships now!? *sigh* Here we go again...

 

[Ffamran]

Has anyone figured out how tether recoveries work? I mean, you can swing around with momentum and because of Jungle Japes and then there's this.

 

[Koiba]

Mfw MK gets shipped with weaboo emblem

MK ships exists for some reason..

idk why

 

[EODM07]

We talking ships now!? *sigh* Here we go again...

I'd post that pic of Palutena & Lucina kissing. But that'd be a bit too much for the chat. x3

 

[FullMoon]

Ggs @ S.F.L.R_9 your Zelda and Shulk are pretty beast!

Hydro Pump tho =V

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

@ FullMoon GG! What do I need to improve on?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

**** dammit

Ctrl+C my friend

 

[FullMoon]

@ FullMoon GG! What do I need to improve on?

The only thing I really noticed is that you sit in shield a lot more often than other players I've played with. I managed to get a lot of grabs on you because of it.

Also, recover with Shulk so that you don't peek above the ledge with Air Slash or you're gonna drown. Not even Jump art can save you there =V

 

[kenniky]

@ kenniky I can play now. It'd be easier for me if we just communicated here :V

Sorry, had to step out for a bit.

You still here?

 

[BJN39]

@ Gay Ginger to be fair, it's actually pretty rare to find a move with less-then 20 frames of endlag aside Jabs and some tilts. (Ofc unless you're looking at the absolutely broken frame-data characters.)

Before you protest about Zelda still sucking I'll save you the trouble of saying that doesn't excuse the fact her moves are still on the generally longer end of above 20F of endlag, and the moves mostly don't have the redeeming qualities to make up for the endlag.

 

[Shrokatii]

Has anyone figured out how tether recoveries work? I mean, you can swing around with momentum and because of Jungle Japes and then there's this.

as someone who plays tink, I need to practice this. Not only for comedic value but mind games

 

[kenniky]

as someone who plays tink, I need to practice this. Not only for comedic value but mind games

Pretty sure it's just jump --> zair

EDIT I have tested this

jump + tilt in direction of stage + zair at the same time

 

[KuroganeHammer]

LEVNei GUNVOLT IS SO FUN Wtf

 

[Ffamran]

Mustaches make almost everything better! Can we commission @Twili to sew mustaches on Luma plushies?

 

[Rizen]

Has anyone figured out how tether recoveries work? I mean, you can swing around with momentum and because of Jungle Japes and then there's this.

Tethers will start searching for a ledge within range and if one's there they grapple it but preserve the character's momentum. TL jumped before he tethered so it flung him up in a weird way. ^This is unsafe so you don't see it often. It doesn't matter how fast a character is moving, only that they start the tether in range of the ledge. I think tethers still work like tethers (as opposed to attacks) slightly out of ledge range which is why you see the animation when they miss.