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Zelda Pride: Just An Idea

Shy Guy!

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
240
Location
Wappingers Falls, NY
It would just be me and FluffyG ( you can find him on here lol) But im about to post a thread somewhere im trying to find and plan out like a huge monthlongish trip lol where me and him and whoever wanst to join go around the states meeting up for tournys and just smashin! it will be mad epic
 

Zone

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
2,483
Location
Pensacola, FL
@Espilon: apparently I need help with Zelda vs Falcon too haha. I mean I did good agaisnt some falcons. But the REAL falcons. I got *****. But nah I think I mostly got ***** because of failed techs I was trying to do but messed it up from lack of warm-up/playing. I mean this tournament only had like maybe 12Melee TVs? if that. and like 60ish smashers = Real hard to play friendlies.

Also I have made a "zelda concept" video back in 05 so I know how to make a combo video. But I can't make it as cool as Vectorman does it.

@Mow: Mow >.> upload some vids of your Zelda please. I'm tired of "hearing" about how good you are. But never being able to witness it myself. It's like listening to someone tell you about how the football game went. When I'd much rather see it. All there is on youtube are matches of really outdated matches.
 
Joined
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@Mow: Mow >.> upload some vids of your Zelda please. I'm tired of "hearing" about how good you are. But never being able to witness it myself. It's like listening to someone tell you about how the football game went. When I'd much rather see it. All there is on youtube are matches of really outdated matches.
Hey, Umbreon. see if I can get invited to Chu's while you're there. I can record stuff.
 

Shy Guy!

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
240
Location
Wappingers Falls, NY
You should, zelda needs to become more played lol

ANYBODY ELSE KNOW A STOP FOR THIS SMASHROAD TRIP OR ANYONE ELSE WANT TO JOIN OR WE MAKE A STOP AT YOUR HOUSE TO PLAY?

we have a few stops already and lunar and epsilion(ihope) are comming! all leading to apex
 

Zone

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
2,483
Location
Pensacola, FL
I started playing Zelda in some friendlies again. She's so lulzy
Nice



In other news:
You know when like falco jumps at you with a N-air and lands behind you? IF you start punishing them with kick out of shield. They'll start shielding after N-air. So what I've been doing is wavedashing In place out of shield to scare them into shield into turn around grab.

:D Gotta scare them with the kick out of shield though.
 
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Do you use zelda's wavedash? I find it useless almost, at least for the way i play her.
There are still uses. It's a spacing tool, like all characters, but for Zelda, since she's always so slow, you'll have to depend on prediction more than most characters.

Say I expect a player to get up close and hit me but only with the tip of their attack. I would wavedash back and fsmash them. During her fsmash, she pulls back a lot of her body so it's a Gimpyfish combo, which is an added bonus.

Or say I wanted to approach with short how double bairs (because her bair is 3 frames faster than fair). I could just wavedash backwards and then do it.
 

Shy Guy!

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
240
Location
Wappingers Falls, NY
That makes sense. i suppose its more of a experience and reflex type thing. But nobody ever explained it like that so, as always, thank you epsilon! lol

I will say though i am a fan of her wavelands

ALSO I feel like smashboards is part of the reason zelda is not advancing in skill. I dont know how you guys learned but I learned through videos and practice but my friend learns through here and practice so he breaks the game down into a science going for the combos he read about and the best moves he was told to use.

So when i watch Zelda i see alot, mostly, whisked back airs all over or just using back airs. I know that is her best move but, at least with me, she can do many more and better things leading to more combos. I dont know how well i explained this i am very tired lol but please give your opinions

Especially you Epsilon and Zone lolol
 
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Messages
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That makes sense. i suppose its more of a experience and reflex type thing. But nobody ever explained it like that so, as always, thank you epsilon! lol

I will say though i am a fan of her wavelands

ALSO I feel like smashboards is part of the reason zelda is not advancing in skill. I dont know how you guys learned but I learned through videos and practice but my friend learns through here and practice so he breaks the game down into a science going for the combos he read about and the best moves he was told to use.

So when i watch Zelda i see alot, mostly, whisked back airs all over or just using back airs. I know that is her best move but, at least with me, she can do many more and better things leading to more combos. I dont know how well i explained this i am very tired lol but please give your opinions

Especially you Epsilon and Zone lolol
Zelda is stereotyped to be a move spamming character, but at higher levels, your opponent will learn the timing and be able to counter it. Competitive Smash is a game about fighting your opponent more than fighting your opponent's character. You always have to change your strategy so your opponent can never have a chance to figure out how to counter it.

If you know spacing toes is not the right option, even when you alter the timing, she does have other options as well. Her dash attack has a disjointed hitbox which gives it pretty good priority, I try to use it when I think my opponent expects a toe just outside their reach. If I expect my opponent to run at me and hit me with something, I tend to use jab to help neutralize the game. On Marth, and maybe Sheik too (haven't had a chance to test her), a jab can lead into a short hop toe. However, I don't think hitstun lasts long enough for it to be a combo. If I know I'm going to get hit, but I'm at a low enough percent, I can crouch cancel and dsmash. Her right leg (the kicking leg) is invincible from frames 4-16 which can help you out prioritize many attacks. Basically, Zelda isn't always guaranteed to get *****. She has responses to strategies, the trick is knowing what strategies your opponent is using so you can counter accordingly. Or at least that's how I play,

I learned Zelda by just playing as her with friends. Strategies are just realized as I play. Also, about a month ago, I said I could be one of the top 2 Zelda players in MD/VA, tied with Plank. Well, I'm wrong. There could be better players out there. When I pride matched Plank, I was in my uber focus burnout (read the link) after playing 4 money matches in a row. I thought my Zelda would be dead, performance-wise, but I guess Zelda's performance doesn't drop like technical characters like Fox. Maybe that's why MaNg0 and Hungrybox placed so high at *Pound* 4 and Genesis?


B-Air

Total: 35
Hit: 5-8
IASA: 33
Auto cancel: <4 25>
Landlag: 18
Lcanceled: 9

Shield stun: 18
Shield hit lag: 8
Advantage: +1

--weak hit--
Shield stun: 11
Shield hit lag: 5
Advantage: -3

Frames of punishibility from missed toes.
--Missed toe: 30
--Toe on shield stun: 20
--Not Toe on shield stun: 24

__________________________________________________________________________
F-Air

Total: 39
Hit: 8-11
IASA: 36
Auto cancel: <7 25>
Landlag: 18
Lcanceled: 9

Shield stun: 18
Shield hit lag: 8
Advantage: +1

--weak hit--
Shield stun: 11
Shield hit lag: 5
Advantage: -3

Frames of punishibility from missed toes.
--Missed toe: 33
--Toe on shield stun: 23
--Not Toe on shield stun: 27

I'm not shure if I calculated this right?

Zelda hitboxes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4W7V5qlb18

I 1 stocked Plank, the got JV3'ed, then got JV2'ed in the pride match, by the way.
 

Shy Guy!

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
240
Location
Wappingers Falls, NY
all im saying is if anybody introduces somebody to smash and is teaching them. Dont tell them of smashboards. It will give him a chance to develop his own play style that hasnt been calculated to a science.

Maybe if a trend like that started the metagame would change more
 
Joined
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all im saying is if anybody introduces somebody to smash and is teaching them. Dont tell them of smashboards. It will give him a chance to develop his own play style that hasnt been calculated to a science.

Maybe if a trend like that started the metagame would change more
I've tried that. I had a roommate back at college where I didn't teach him much of anything. He's heard about L-Canceling and doesn't know how to do it. He can't even wavedash. He plays like a novice Marth, which is space fsmash, and he's pretty good at it. Because of his inability to L-Cancel, he doesn't play a good air game and since he's on the ground so often, grabbing him as Samus is really easy which shouldn't be. He does edgeguard his own way which is neutral-B's, jumps up and nairs if he expects a high recovery, and of course fsmash. The only thing I really taught him was to shield pressure with dtilt, so now he starts approaching with tipper dtilts instead of well spaced tipper dash attacks. You may have a point about creating your own style, however, it's not going to be as effective as learning from tried and tested styles first.

Old videos of him if your curious to see how he plays.

MarthDude (Marth) vs EPsilon933 (Zelda)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L29HVwaWiFc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxVtf6iiTMk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1EpUV4eIxI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2L6vB9j9JQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QxtGEMtcAY

MarthDude (Marth) vs EPsilon933 (Peach)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58MnPbSZs88

MarthDude (Marth) vs EPsilon933 (Fox)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=385dD0pufKM

MarthDude (Marth) vs EPsilon933 (Falcon)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2bmmbHgoRg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk_fLp4NrVE

MarthDude (Marth) vs EPsilon933 (Falco)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v7BomIiOg0

MarthDude (red) vs EPsilon933 (green) Falcon Dittos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD1puqsbIvk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YThbrtwppJ4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJO8ixnBdyQ

Playlist

http://www.youtube.com/user/galciv12#g/u
 

Shy Guy!

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
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Location
Wappingers Falls, NY
Lets say i find someone who wants to learn. Ill teach him all the tech things to practice and a few good combos and whatnot. Then that's it. He will develop his own style of play instead of using the broken down science playstyle that smashboards created for every character. That way he could help advance metagame and if it continued with different players the metagame would constantly change.

That is how i look at it, or am i wrong?
 

Cosmo!

nerf zelda's dsmash
Joined
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Chicago, Illinois
my zelda style is almost entirely self invented, using whatever intuitively comes. I also take advice from the board and try to see where things can fit in (like magus's dtilt tricks, etc)
 
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My Zelda game is also self discovered as well. After you get ***** a lot, you can start to really understand how to play against characters. Captain Falcon I'd say is the easiest to learn. Just always try something different. But I have learned a few tricks from the boards, like Magus's fsmash punish on a sleeping Jigglypuff. You'll learn better by self discovery than by reading.
 
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Deleted member

Guest
for a character as simple and linear as zelda I guess it's acceptable to say that you are self-taught and moderately successful on your own initiative. for more complex characters, exchanging in-depth information is functionally required to continually advance with that character in any meaningful way.
 

Zone

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Pensacola, FL
Uh, you kind of have to teach yourself Zelda guys. I mean... it's not like there are many vids or players out there for you to study from.

Also waiting for someone to learn a whole character and develop them by themselves will take FOREVER. Even if he knows the basic techs. The process only speeding up, if he/she is already knowledge-able when it comes to fighters, knowing about baiting and priority, and counters, and spacing ect ect.

Do you use zelda's wavedash? I find it useless almost, at least for the way i play her.
Don't look at wavedash by itself. It's completely lame by itself. But in conjunction with Dash-dancing/Fox Trotting, It is very useful. Using her wavedash like you would marth or luigi to space yourself for like a smash attack while sliding is not so good. But her wavedash lets you reset your dash dance/fox trot if you run for too long. Run for too long and you will have to spend forever turning back around. So right befor you want to turn around wavedash a bit early then re-dash dance again/fox-trot. w/o wave-dash My spacing would be crap if all I could do is fox-trot and dash dance.

EDIT: her wavedash becomes more and more useless however the faster the character is. I mean fox and Falcon can Fly across the stage(Especially falcon). And easily catch you before you can gain more space. So you end up having to stay away farther than normal just to even try to outspace a flying N-air from falcon. And since falcon is very fast, he can juke you alot easier than you can juke him. If Falcon whiffs a aerial, he's much safer than you are if you whiff one against falcon. So yeah if your practicing against characters that can cover horizontal distances very fast. I can see why you might think wave-dash is almost pointless.
 

Shy Guy!

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
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Wappingers Falls, NY
It's not that You can't use boards to talk and further a character it's tht smashboards makes a character a broken down science. THIS is how you approach THIS is how to combo and THIS to ledgeguard. You know what I'm saying? Zelda or not self taught the way I explained self taught to be will result in a fast changing metagame and way more uniqueness and unpredictability to the game, at least that's what I think....

And that is needed in melee to continue this game and continue it with a big fanbase and the popularity it used to have.
Anybody agree?? Or am I just to burnt right now lol
 

PNaleek

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
365
Location
San Diego, California
Run for too long and you will have to spend forever turning back around.
Yes. I agree completely. That's pretty much the only time I use her wavedash.

And Shy Guy!, I agree with you too! I think if I would have learned of Smashboards before I learned of Smash, I would have been turned off by it.
 

Zone

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Pensacola, FL
I'm waiting on my big boss to approve my days off, and I WILL BUY A PLANE TICKET TO APEX.

Anyone wanna share a hotel room? >>
 

TheLake

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
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Location
Butler PA
all the zelda players

should get a hotel room together

and discuss strats

dittoos alll daii
 

Zone

Smash Champion
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Jan 3, 2006
Messages
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Pensacola, FL
all the zelda players

should get a hotel room together

and discuss strats

dittoos alll daii
I'm totally down, I'm booked and ready to go. Registered+Plane ticket has been bought.

I just need to rent out a hotel. waiting to find pple to share a room with.

EDIT: I also need a partner. I can play Falcon and falco and Marth pretty good. My fox is really good if I warm up enough.
 

Zone

Smash Champion
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Jan 3, 2006
Messages
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Pensacola, FL
I need advice for Apex.

Should I enter (singles only, I dislike teams) or should I not? I want to record A LOT of tournament footage, and yet I also want to play and make it out of round 1 pools. Choices...

http://www.youtube.com/user/UsurperKingZant
Do both? I think if you're going to go you should enter. Just so you can see how far you can progress in a serious environment with the best of the best there. and just ask if you can record your matches anytime you play someone.
 

PNaleek

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
365
Location
San Diego, California
Zone, I think your Zelda is pretty solid. I watched some of your videos and I must say you're pretty good.
As for you EPsilon933, you should definitely enter both if you can get a decent partner!
 
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