Official Zelda Patch and Changes Discussion Thread

[JigglyZelda003]

So i get from this discussion pretty much what we have been able to determine for every charcter: bc shieldstun increased, any stupid ridonk strong move Zelda got is pretty much safe on shield. So, in theory, fastfall bair, one pixel off the ground should have enough kb to keep us in control, amirite? (and fsmash, but yeah, we been chidori'ing forever)

...sounds a little lackluster.

Any of us ladies considered the nair options against an opponent shielding on a platform? sounds like with proper timing and/or placement, we can whittle down shield? or even potentially Heaven Kick of F-air them, ON their shield, and push them off said platform, leading to jab reset?

its a stretch, but cmon sisters, Zelda is literally all about conforming to crappy conditions

i don't think we can really Nair shield pressure that well even with the extra shield stun because Zelda still has bad landing lag and the move last a long time. like i'm sure we can rough up a shield but it would require them to be afraid and stay in it to get a serious shield pressure scare

 

[Valamway]

i don't think we can really Nair shield pressure that well even with the extra shield stun because Zelda still has bad landing lag and the move last a long time. like i'm sure we can rough up a shield but it would require them to be afraid and stay in it to get a serious shield pressure scare

He said on an opponent on a platform, and a fullhop nair autocancels on platforms.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

He said on an opponent on a platform, and a fullhop nair autocancels on platforms.

oh! i guess i was confused lol.

 

[Jaguar360]

1.11 Impressions:

• F-smash is incredible now...definitely one of Zelda's most important spacing moves and kill moves.
• Jab and D-tilt are also safer spacing moves
  
• F-tilt isn't safe on block as I'd hoped it would be, but it's mostly used for quick punishes anyway so no biggie.
• I've been getting punished for most of my sweetspot LKs on shield. Perhaps it's the online lag or me not spacing correctly, but it doesn't seem safe on shield against most of the cast.
• Sweetspot d-air is safe enough against certain characters to not get punished
• Customs: Naryu's Passion is much more usable now, but still mostly outclassed by the other neutral Bs (especially default)

EDIT: Mistaken on d-air. Should have omitted that :/

 

[Freelance Spy]

1.11 Impressions:

• F-smash is incredible now...definitely one of Zelda's most important spacing moves and kill moves.
• Jab and D-tilt are also safer spacing moves
  
• F-tilt isn't safe on block as I'd hoped it would be, but it's mostly used for quick punishes anyway so no biggie.
• I've been getting punished for most of my sweetspot LKs on shield. Perhaps it's the online lag or me not spacing correctly, but it doesn't seem safe on shield against most of the cast.
• Sweetspot d-air is safe enough against certain characters to not get punished
• Customs: Naryu's Passion is much more usable now, but still mostly outclassed by the other neutral Bs (especially default)

Speaking of default, think it is a good shield finisher? Does it keep people locked?

 

[Valamway]

Speaking of default, think it is a good shield finisher? Does it keep people locked?

If I remember right, the re-hit rate is four frames...
So I think if your opponent tries to buffer a natural OoS option, they get out of their shield and start taking the hits.
So, like it's always been.

 

[Freelance Spy]

So, like it's always been.

This is not the sort of thing I like to hear when it comes to Zelda. I thought she was my best option before. (Got me better results than my Marth). But this patch she feels worse in comparison to everyone else.

I pray for buffs.

 

[CNMNE]

1.11 Impressions:

• F-smash is incredible now...definitely one of Zelda's most important spacing moves and kill moves.
• Jab and D-tilt are also safer spacing moves
  
• F-tilt isn't safe on block as I'd hoped it would be, but it's mostly used for quick punishes anyway so no biggie.
• I've been getting punished for most of my sweetspot LKs on shield. Perhaps it's the online lag or me not spacing correctly, but it doesn't seem safe on shield against most of the cast.
• Sweetspot d-air is safe enough against certain characters to not get punished
• Customs: Naryu's Passion is much more usable now, but still mostly outclassed by the other neutral Bs (especially default)

wai-wai-wait, sweetspot dair is safe on shield now? are you kidding? that literally doesnt make sense if a retreating fair isnt.

 

[Valamway]

wai-wai-wait, sweetspot dair is safe on shield now? are you kidding? that literally doesnt make sense if a retreating fair isnt.

You can't autocancel fair, no matter how you space it.
But it seems pretty safe to me if you space it right.
Dair is better not autocanceled anyway, and it's only decently safe.

 

[KarmaCastle]

1.11 Impressions:

• Sweetspot d-air is safe enough against certain characters to not get punishe

I have to contest this.

You can ask @CPU 3 or @Suicidal_Donuts (if he survives the flood in his house) I love dairing on stage. Even if it's stupid and bad and I get punished. It's a bizarre habit I have but I can't break.

This leads to getting a lot of sweet spot dairs, only to get grabbed or punished hardcore afterwards.

It depends on the angle it hits the shield and Zelda's momentum. If the Dair Sweetspot hits juuuust right, it slides the target a whee bit left or right. If it hits directly, it's a guaranteed punish. 50/50 if it's a small slide. 30/70 if it's a decent slide.

Trust me. I love Dair and it's ingrained to my playstyle to the point of stupidity.

I've had a lot of practice and seen a lot of Sweetspot dairs get punished, even after this patch. ;^;

 

[Wiimas123]

Like something someone said earlier, her walking and running speed should be faster. Also Din's fire should not put you into freefall, Phantom Slash should go full screen, and less lag on a lot of her moves like Din's fire. Did I mention Din's fire?

 

[CNMNE]

You can't autocancel fair, no matter how you space it.
But it seems pretty safe to me if you space it right.
Dair is better not autocanceled anyway, and it's only decently safe.

Arent all of our aerials' autocancel frames 1-3? (except nair)

 

[Valamway]

Arent all of our aerials' autocancel frames 1-3? (except nair)

Dair can AC frame 40, which is conveniently also the amount of time it takes to do a short hop.
But for safety on shield, it's much better to FFdair.
I personally prefer full hopping to bait a shield, then FFfairing it.
Seems safer than dair.

 

[CNMNE]

Dair can AC frame 40, which is conveniently also the amount of time it takes to do a short hop.
But for safety on shield, it's much better to FFdair.
I personally prefer full hopping to bait a shield, then FFfairing it.
Seems safer than dair.

that makes sense, thx, didnt know that.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Yeah, popping in to say that any fully charged variation of DownB can still be rolled/dodged out of after blocking the first hit. This includes Phantom Strike which does the most damage. I was looking forward to getting some shield breaks with fully charged Phantom Breaker, too...

Also I'm all ears if anyone can make Nayru's Rejection sound useful.

 

[BJN39]

Yeah, they couldn't manage to make the shield changes fix Phantom slash... :\ I guess we'll just stick with Strike.

Also I'm all ears if anyone can make Nayru's Rejection sound useful.

No one can.

It's completely worthless.

The only thing it 'has' over Love is a longer intangibility window. (Something like 7-17 for Rejection and 5-12 for Love.) But in return you lose the range, damage, hit duration, reflect duration, and knockback, of Nayru's Love. All of which combined are more useful than a few frames longer intagibility and a turning effect.

 

[Macchiato]

Yeah, they couldn't manage to make the shield changes fix Phantom slash... :\ I guess we'll just stick with Strike.



No one can.

It's completely worthless.

The only thing it 'has' over Love is a longer intangibility window. (Something like 7-17 for Rejection and 5-12 for Love.) But in return you lose the range, damage, hit duration, reflect duration, and knockback, of Nayru's Love. All of which combined are more useful than a few frames longer intagibility and a turning effect.

Maybe if the intangibility frames and the first active hitbox frames overlapped, then maybe it'd be better since it'd beat everything. For now, Rejection is bad.

Squall may be better than Wind though. Since the elevator is almost a thing of the past due to DI and shieldstun changes, maybe Squall is better.

 

[Rickster]

Squall may be better than Wind though.

the elevator is a thing of the past due to DI and shieldstun changes

Gorl...thing of the past? Come on now.

 

[Macchiato]

View attachment 77684
Gorl...thing of the past? Come on now.

People are learning to DI the elevator and it's very hard to get it oos. It's better to use JC usmash oos because you won't get punished as hard for missing it.

Squall does still have things going for it. Frame 1 windbox to escape some strings and rapid jabs. Gimping is a use. Possibly OOS and to escape bad situations. It also seems hard to gimp due to the windbox pushing the char away from the ledge when they try to hit you in the 2 frames.

The endlag and duration was buffed last patch too.

 

[BJN39]

People are learning to DI the elevator and it's very hard to get it oos. It's better to use JC usmash oos because you won't get punished as hard for missing it.

You just have to be able to react to DI or hit 1 misses for FW. Basically if you mess up the elevator you can instead choose to then escape by teleportation. If you mess up Usmash you're a 30-50F sitting duck.

One of the core things a Zelda should try to be good at is reacting to someone while using FW.

 

[Katy Parry]

I use FW after down tilt grab mix ups. I'll do two or three in a row often, and either grab or Nayru's. or Shield to grab again. But some will try to air dodge your 2nd or 3rd dtilt and that's when you use it.

FW is a very useful tool with her double jump still. That momentum allows you to jump and start it imediately out of hitstun to space for a counter attack.

If you get hit to the right and Up, double jump to the right and start as you jump and direct FW right back at them. IT's super quick but perfect when used once or twice per match. Or set, even.

You just can't reveal all your tricks in the first match. And as Zelda, its hard not to. I throw out Phantom like crazy.

 

[Meru.]

Posting this in designated thread.

I looked up on the Patch Note changes on the SSBWiki.

Apparently, Zelda got a damage buff for the loop for Nayru's Love. And she travels further from doing the Elevator after a Midair Jump.

And Phantom Slash's damage got reduced from 26 → 24.

I can't say for sure about Nayru's damage buff and distance buff. I'll need to further test this.

Is this true???

If it is Im going to punch a wall and drop Zelda immediately not even gonna wait till February

 

[EODM07]

Posting this in designated thread.

Is this true???

If it is Im going to punch a wall and drop Zelda immediately not even gonna wait till February

It is.

Zelda's Neutral B now does 11% instead of 8%, each hit aside from the final hit does an extra 1% of damage. Elevator has increased distance if used after a midair jump. And I checked the Phantom Slash in-game. And it does do 24% instead of 26%.

The Elevator does feel like it travels further now from that.

 

[buzzard]

Nayru's Love already did 11% max damage if I recall correctly.

I don't know what that means for the eleveator is it good, bad, changes nothing?

The nerf to phantom however....

 

[Meru.]

It is.

Zelda's Neutral B now does 11% instead of 8%, each hit aside from the final hit does an extra 1% of damage. Elevator has increased distance if used after a midair jump. And I checked the Phantom Slash in-game. And it does do 24% instead of 26%.

The Elevator does feel like it travels further now from that.

Great. One useless buff and an equally meaningless nerf.

I wonder why they didn't find these changes in the character files though. Perhaps there are more useless buffs we haven't discovered yet?

Edit: yeah Im also prettu sure Nayru's did more than 8 damage before.

 

[EODM07]

Great. One useless buff and an equally meaningless nerf.

I wonder why they didn't find these changes in the character files though. Perhaps there are more useless buffs we haven't discovered yet?

Edit: yeah Im also prettu sure Nayru's did more than 8 damage before.

Yeah, seems like Zelda got the short straw from these buffs.

Most likely seem like Nayru's Love was unchanged, I did check the Wiki earlier today; so it may get changed to fit with the proper changes. Seems like Ganon, Bowser, Shulk and Mewtwo got some good benefits from the buffs.

 

[buzzard]

Also I'm pretty sure that Phantom was doing 24.8% damage at full charge already...

 

[Valamway]

None of those things are new...
Unless someone finds some FAF changes, we got nothing.

 

[Rebel13]

So I've been messing around in training mode (which I almost never do) and I am wondering a few things now.

1. Could you always double jump after FH Fair/Bair?
2. Can anyone confirm if phantom has less endlag, to compensate for reduced damage?
3. Can anyone confirm if Nyaru's also seems has less endlag? (though I suspect this one is just placebo.)

I'm still kinda upset Zelda didn't get anything more out of this patch

 

[Valamway]

Questions

There are literally zero changes confirmed, and no damage or hitbox changes period.
So,
1. Yes, you could.
2. Phantom might have less endlag; I haven't seen anyone claim to have tested it. HOWEVER, it deals the same amount of damage it did last patch.
3. Nayru's endlag may have changed a bit (see answer 1), but I think it's unlikely since they did not change the damage of it or of anything.

Don't spread misinformation kids.

 

[buzzard]

Nothing changed at all.

So I've been messing around in training mode (which I almost never do) and I am wondering a few things now.

1. Could you always double jump after FH Fair/Bair?
2. Can anyone confirm if phantom has less endlag, to compensate for reduced damage?
3. Can anyone confirm if Nyaru's also seems has less endlag? (though I suspect this one is just placebo.)

I'm still kinda upset Zelda didn't get anything more out of this patch

No changes there.

 

[BJN39]

Most of the time people who edit smash wiki are complete idiots and the work there always needs to be verified.

Fairy Fountain is up to date too and has the info. The good sistren buzzard is noT being fooled <3

Nayru's always did 11%, (and always COULD DO LESS.)

No FW distance changes,

No Phantom damage nerf.

These are like, the most placebo alarm-sounding changes I've ever heard SMH.

 

[Rickster]

I'm blaming all of you for not getting buffs.

Obvs somebody didn't sacrifice enough Phantoms to Sakurai SMH
secretkpop

 

[Macchiato]

This was a very disappointing patch

 

[ZombieBran]

Sorry sistren for perpetuating placebo "buffs".

The placebo changes were so bad it might as well have been no changes anyway

 

[Rickster]

Have you seen the patch changes on her SmashWiki page? They have nonsense like "Farore's make you jump higher when combined with a jump" and "Din's Fire travel speed increased".

Are we so desperate we have to resort to...that?

 

[ZombieBran]

Are we so desperate we have to resort to...that?

Yes.

Every patch it feels like Din's gets faster but that's because it's so awful our memory of it is a slow moving taunt and then we're mildly surprised when it's slightly faster than a turtle (a turtle being Robin, who I love <3)

 

[BJN39]

It looks like we'll be on the watch for Zelda buffs any changes along with the release of Bayonetta and Corrin.

This is your daily reminder that I'll infract people for making threads to talk about patch changes here.

 

[Valamway]

C'mon SoccerGuy!
This might be our last chance, or maybe penultimate.

At this point, I'd take anything.

 

[MOI-ARI]

Waits patiently for buffs.

Violently cries*