Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[JigglyZelda003]

i still think its 45:55 Peach

 

[NinjaLink]

Time to end this convo since no one understands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siSk4Y3Dehc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbJ_I9JKxb4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9uuvgo7FD4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWnpBscGoDk

Done. This is peach being totally defensive and me tryin to figure out what to do against it. This was one of the most frustrating moments i've had.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

peach has a moveset that's very difficult for zelda to get around while peach's unique movement style allows her to get around zelda's pretty easily.

I don't see how there's much question here.

 

[Kataefi]

NL, I thought the first round was before you knew the matchup and round 4 was when you did know it. If you 2 stocked peach on round 4 when you knew how to deal with her, does that make the matchup less in Peach's favour than it already is?

 

[NinjaLink]

The fact is Peach herself forces Zelda to fight her competely different than i normally fight makes it in her favor. Peach doesnt really have to change at all. Most peachs spam fair and turnips anyway.

ITs like wolf vs olimar. Olimar has to do EVERYTHING in his power to stop wolf from spamming. His gun beats all of his approachs. The only move wolf cant beat is olimars uptilt and attacks that doesnt use pikmin. The fact that olimar has to completely change his style is a disadvantage. Wolf can just do his normal stuff or be gay with the gun. Not much change for him.

U understand ?

 

[Villi]

I completely understand the Peach matchup. You were doin it wrong, obviously. The matchup is in Peach's favor, but it's not 60-40 like it is with Sheik.

 

[GodAtHand]

What exactly pertains to the decision of match-up anyways? Is there some kind of direct definition from the SBR or something that we could follow because this type of issue that I am about to bring up comes up a lot in one form or another.

So NL figured out how to deal with Peach and then proceeded to win... right? Well what if the style he ended up beating Peach with happens to be the typical playing style for some Zelda's? Not all Zelda's play the same way anyways so I don't understand how having to change your style to win would constitute it being a difficult match-up for the character. I happen to have a hard time with Falco although we said it was in our favor, perhaps my play style is not suited for dealing with his moves?

So is the match-up based on under perfect conditioning what the characters arsenal have to deal with each other? Or is it based on one character fighting another using what could be considered a standard playstyle for said characters.

Consider this example: Character A when playing his typical style loses consistently to character B. The match-up decided was 80-20 in favor of character B... Later on it is discovered that through playing the complete opposite of Character A usually plays he can beat Character B consistently. Would the match-up stay 80-20 or would it be in favor of character A now that he has a play-style that, although nonconventional, allows him to win against character B consistently?

 

[Kataefi]

I really don't see this as 60:40 peach's favour at all. And I agree with everything Villi has said. 55:45 peach for definite in my eyes. I know I can get Peach whenever I fight her, and it is tough, but in no way is her fair as bad as GnW's bair.

She has to change in this matchup as well. She has to bait. If Zelda doesn't fall for those baits, then it's closer to even. This is what edrees was saying.



EDIT: GodatHand I really enjoyed reading your post ^^. It's very true.

 

[Mocha19]

So who's the next character we're gonna discuss? =D

 

[Kataefi]

pika-pika-pikachu >.> possibly?

 

[Mocha19]

Sweeeeeeet

 

[Kataefi]

Wait it's not for certain yet >.> It's royalblood's call!

 

[Mocha19]

Well whatever he decides is fine with me. =]

 

[RoyalBlood]

There you go! >;3

 

[Kataefi]

This is my favourite matchup in the entire game! Both wreck each other! I'll post things I know tomorrow because it's so late here. I'm off to bed ^^

 

[RoyalBlood]

Someone go get the Pikachus NAO! >>>

 

[Kaffei]

Ew........ I hate this match up.

 

[Lord Yawgmoth]

again, I don't have experience with this matchup,


just wanted to point something out that probably won't even happen: You can reflect his lighting that comes down from the sky, and it will damage him.


(sorry for not being much help )

 

[Kaffei]

again, I don't have experience with this matchup,


just wanted to point something out that probably won't even happen: You can reflect his lighting that comes down from the sky, and it will damage him.


(sorry for not being much help )

I found the timing quite difficult.

& I hate his QaC. So annoying, all I can do is roll or Nayrus. >_>

AND HIS JOLT THINGY. How the fk do you avoid that.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I don't play a lot of pikachus, but when I do, I don't have any special problems with them. We naturally get around a lot of their irritating quirks.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

all i've fought is the Pika spammers, so i can't help out here.

 

[NinjaLink]

What exactly pertains to the decision of match-up anyways? Is there some kind of direct definition from the SBR or something that we could follow because this type of issue that I am about to bring up comes up a lot in one form or another.

So NL figured out how to deal with Peach and then proceeded to win... right? Well what if the style he ended up beating Peach with happens to be the typical playing style for some Zelda's? Not all Zelda's play the same way anyways so I don't understand how having to change your style to win would constitute it being a difficult match-up for the character. I happen to have a hard time with Falco although we said it was in our favor, perhaps my play style is not suited for dealing with his moves?

So is the match-up based on under perfect conditioning what the characters arsenal have to deal with each other? Or is it based on one character fighting another using what could be considered a standard playstyle for said characters.

Consider this example: Character A when playing his typical style loses consistently to character B. The match-up decided was 80-20 in favor of character B... Later on it is discovered that through playing the complete opposite of Character A usually plays he can beat Character B consistently. Would the match-up stay 80-20 or would it be in favor of character A now that he has a play-style that, although nonconventional, allows him to win against character B consistently?

The matchup is based on the full arsenal of both characters being used at full potential. If one said character makes most of ur approachs/Moveset useless, it obviously forces u to change how u would play the character. Makes sense right? Thats why i mentioned the Wolf/Olimar matchup. Pikmin are useless against wolf but everyone knows Pikmin are the staple of Olimars game. If they are useless then of course he'd have to change up alot nor would it be in his favor.


Pikachu?! How random. Yea Reflect the thunder. Its not timing really. U can just space it in the air. If he knocks u in the air, u can time it for the invincibility frames if thats what u mean. Always Smash DI up the dsmash. Prolly best to rapidly tap both sticks up for an easier escape.


Not many good pikas out there. The midwest Zeldas go play anther. I could play my crewmate as well.

 

[GreyFox86]

My only experience against a Pikachu is a Spam-chu. We have a really good pikachu here, though I have yet to play him.

And while we are on the topic, I just want to point out that Naryu-ing his Thunder isn't hard. It's more on wither or not you want to do that and keep you safe in the end. His Dsmash can be easily DI'd out of.

The only thing I see, so far, is the fact that most of his stuff kills at low percentage and a much faster projectile. Not saying that this is all he has against Zelda, cause that's far from that. I'm only saying what I know and see for now. That can easily be changed

 

[NinjaLink]

Chasing a campy one is the problem. Hes so **** fast. QAC........dammit

My sig is sexy now.

 

[GodAtHand]

Question: When Nayru's hits thunder does it turn the thunder ours? So if Pika did a thunder while jumping and I Nayru's through it and then for some reason Pika ran into it would he get hurt? AND if Zelda for some reason ran into it too would it hurt her as well?

Edit: Honestly sometimes I type like English is not my native language...

 

[NinjaLink]

Pikachu cant move so its a guaranteed hit if he stays in place while doing the thunder. Yes its becomes zeldas thunder.

 

[GreyFox86]

Question: When Nayru's hits thunder does it turn the thunder ours? So if Pika did a thunder while jumping and I Nayru's through it and then for some reason Pika ran into it would he get hurt? AND if Zelda for some reason ran into it too would it hurt her as well?

Edit: Honestly sometimes I type like English is not my native language...

To answer that is quite simple. Everything about that thunder becomes ours when reflected by Naryu's. Pika gets hurt if he runs into Naryu's Thunder. We dont suffer from damage by Naryu's Thunder cause it becomes ours. In other words, as long as your Naryu's Pika's Thunder, you don't catch the bad end of that deal.

EDIT: **** it, NL beat me to it LOL

 

[Mi1oo]

Pikachu can move if his in air

 

[NinjaLink]

Pikachu can move if his in air

Yea i kinda mentioned that but not really. He still cant move until the thunder is over. Thats just momentum carrying over.

 

[Mi1oo]

Yeah you can't control it, only use the momentum you had when you started the thunder. Same as the last 2 games i think

 

[Kataefi]

I think this is a weird and really amazing matchup. I love it! Both have the tools to wreck each other.

He won't ko her with thunder. Naryu's > Thunder the majority of cases. If Zelda's reflexes are bad he may be able to get them in but he won't be using thunder a lot.

His QAC fails against Zelda as we've discussed in the moves thread. USmash, Utilt any other lingering hitboxes of Zelda's, even Nair, knock him out of it and do far more damage that the QAC will do to us. So that's another downfall of his.

He can't really edgeguard Zelda too well. She'll bypass his thunder and land on the ground, and then the momentum will switch. His aerial game also has bad range, so Zelda's nair will often override a lot of his attacks. Also... again Zelda's USmash outprioritise all his aerials, so him going aerial can be a bad move at times.

He also succumbs to the dtilt lock really really well. Dtilt > Fresh Utilt will ko him at around 80% because he's so light. With DI he may be able to recover, but regardless anything above 80% and he's kill fodder for Zelda.

He outranges us on the ground with FSmash and Tjolt, but his FSmash hits on roughly frame 21 and is not a lingering hitbox. It's very weak from the tip and won't do much damage. Spotdodge to whatever will take care of this. Zelda's is lingering but can be DI'd out of.

His DSmash isn't a problem because it's very to SDI out of. He can only really kill us with smashes and these will stale greatly. Thunder won't work. Edgeguarding won't work. He'll attempt to build up damage with Tjolt and then move in for the kill. His Fair also leads to some ridiculously good combos, but our USmash > his Fair. Also, Ftilt outprioritises it and is even more effective when angled upwards.

I think this is 50:50, maybe slightly in Zelda's advantage. He can move fast and he outcamps, but he's never been a big problem for me. Then again, I've never faced Anther, but I've fought tourney pika's before in friendlies ^^

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I've never lost to a pikachu, but I haven't fought a whole lot of them. none who are great.

we seem to have an answer to his everything though, and kill easier than him. His speed is nice but I don't think it's enough to overcome our advantages.

60:40 Zelda would be my rough estimate.

 

[-Mars-]

I agree, Pikachu loses to any character that outranges and outprioritizes him. Getting inside Zelda for him is hard. Add the fact that he can't chaingrab her or combo as effectively out of his grabs and she's taken a lot of his options away.

I'll post more on the matchup later, but i'd say 60:40 as well.

 

[GodAtHand]

Completely Off-Topic post commencing: The Pit boards and some others have this cool looking pic up on their match-up threads with the characters set up like a character select screen. It shows under each character what the current percent is that has been decided by the boards. I could make one and try to get it to be more Zelda-esqe, but I don't want to waste my time if no one would want it or think it would look bad.

So simply, Character select pic w/ match-ups listed? yes or no?

 

[Lord Yawgmoth]

And while we are on the topic, I just want to point out that Naryu-ing his Thunder isn't hard. It's more on wither or not you want to do that and keep you safe in the end. His Dsmash can be easily DI'd out of.

haha, sorry. I didn't mean it was hard to do, I meant that it was situational. I didn't think many pikachus stay in place while using thunder.

And yeah ^_^ his downsmash is ridiculously easy to DI out of, I think you just have to push and hold up even once and you are out.

@ Riot: I think that those things look rather pretty. It might be nice to have at the begining of the thread before all the summaries.

 

[GreyFox86]

@LordY: Yea I get what your saying.

As far as Pika v Zelda, I wanna say 60:40 Zelda as well. He just doesn't have the options against Zelda like he would against anyone else. Since Zelda is a HUGE floaty, chain-throws are cut short as well as combos for Pika.

I have yet to test if her Ftilt can beat Pika's Fair, but his best approach is to Tjolt then attack. I do have concerns about his Dair, cause it hits in the air and on the ground. I don't have enough info for this just yet so imma go with the 60:40

 

[Kataefi]

If someone can test the up-angled ftilt against his fair approach that would be grand!

 

[RoyalBlood]

Completely Off-Topic post commencing: The Pit boards and some others have this cool looking pic up on their match-up threads with the characters set up like a character select screen. It shows under each character what the current percent is that has been decided by the boards. I could make one and try to get it to be more Zelda-esqe, but I don't want to waste my time if no one would want it or think it would look bad.

So simply, Character select pic w/ match-ups listed? yes or no?

It's like a match-up chart? :D If so, then but of course!! :3

I can add it here (but it would look horrible) so I advice that you make your own thread and post it there and then request an sticky so they don't have to look at the first post of this thread, they just go to your pic right? D: But you decide of course ^3^

 

[Kataefi]

Guys! I can do one if you want! I'll do it on photoshop! Would you let me?

 

[Stealth Raptor]

ok. so. i am sure both of us get the old OMG WE CAN DI YOUR SMASHES THEY ARE USELESS! i also know that we both know how wrong there are for our respective moves. i am sure we can both dispense that notion for both of our smash attacks. now the basics of this matchup are-zelda has a lot of strong moves that have great ko potential and rangel. pikachu is also very light. however pikachu also has one of the best momentum cancel abilites in the game, helpinghim live longer. what we have over you is speed. we can dash in, attack, sheild, or whatever. and we can combo. our fsmash outranges everything you guys have i belive. tbh i havent played a zelda in months, and when i did it wasnt too bad. anyone care for some friendlies? and i will say it is definitly not 60-40 on either side. it is somwehre in the middle, imo 50-50. we both of a lot of crap we can do to each other like kataefi said. btw your ftilt should destroy our fair. the fair has little priority. btw we can also land our fairs behind you so an ftilt will miss.

EDIT: our qac is really hampered by your large hitbox attacks. QAC should be used sparingly by pikachus, but in this case i dont think it hurts pikachu much.