Data Zelda’s Smash Ultimate Moveset /Move Viability Discussion: Phantom Slash = Huge Neutral Buff

[Katy Parry]

Yeah, a lot of properties we've already gotten footage or people talking about it, but some stuff was only an isolated footage or based on a comment so I'm trying not to believe 100% as this moment (but I think I came to the same conclusions you described). I think there's still like 1-2 seconds of downtime after phantom is destroyed as shown in one case, but we need someone to try summoning phantom instantly after it's destroyed and see what happens. Have we seen any footage of zelda canceling phantom with second jump? That would be amazing.

My understanding is once the Phantom is gone, it can be cast again?

 

[KlicKlac]

My understanding is once the Phantom is gone, it can be cast again?

Yeah, you can see in some footage the destroyed armor fall to the ground and it disappears like a couple seconds later. That's probably the moment zelda can start building another one.
I'm glad sakurai didn't add that unnecessary respawn time from smash 4. That and the new victory pose makes me think sakurai wanted zelda to integrate phantom into her neutral.

 

[Katy Parry]

[edited, smash boards mobile is not mobile friendly]

 

[Katy Parry]

I’m hitting the placebo alarm. Phantom could pass through attacks/aerials and hit as long as the attack didn’t kill phantom in SSB4. Same as this. 99% certain of it. Doesn’t mean this isn’t good news because that was a good characteristic.

But if anyone knows off the top, was DK’s BAir staled in that video? Because in SSB4 DK BAir does 13% base dmg, which...would kill phantom, would it not?


Ew no that term name proposal was horrible and confusing.

Yeah but again, the Phantom forms *behind* her now, and it's a wall that you can pass through.
Therefore it's better because it won't zip right past someone on *reaction*

Yeah, you can see in some footage the destroyed armor fall to the ground and it disappears like a couple seconds later. That's probably the moment zelda can start building another one.
I'm glad sakurai didn't add that unnecessary respawn time from smash 4. That and the new victory pose makes me think sakurai wanted zelda to integrate phantom into her neutral.

Exactly, I mean it's reinforcing that that's her "thing" that makes her special and defines her

Finally...

 

[Mocha]

Ledge cancels still work: https://twitter.com/cayiika/status/1013093068717940737

Youtube upload if Twitter is iffy

 

[SethTheMage]

Ledge cancels still work: https://twitter.com/cayiika/status/1013093068717940737

Nice. Though, they also mention that ledge cancelling is precise. It already was with Zelda in Smash 4, so I hope it's not even more so. LCing is one of my favorite mixups with characters who have teleport recoveries, so I hope it's not too precise to be consistent.

 

[Mocha]

Nice. Though, they also mention that ledge cancelling is precise. It already was with Zelda in Smash 4, so I hope it's not even more so. LCing is one of my favorite mixups with characters who have teleport recoveries, so I hope it's not too precise to be consistent.

Yeah, he did say it was more precise, which is scary when you think about how precise it already was. Maybe it just takes some practice, same with the platform cancels. But I've been hearing that other characters with teleport recoveries may not be able to teleport cancel, so if this was exclusive to Zelda, that would be interesting. I'm kind of skeptical about it though.

 

[KlicKlac]

Nice. Though, they also mention that ledge cancelling is precise. It already was with Zelda in Smash 4, so I hope it's not even more so. LCing is one of my favorite mixups with characters who have teleport recoveries, so I hope it's not too precise to be consistent.

For a lot of my ledge cancels, I usually use the stage as a marker and then the rest is muscle memory with jump inputs and using the 8 directions on the stick with the GC controller , so precision isn't going to affect that. But it's going to make aerial ledge cancels so much more risky now...

 

[Katy Parry]

For a lot of my ledge cancels, I usually use the stage as a marker and then the rest is muscle memory with jump inputs and using the 8 directions on the stick with the GC controller , so precision isn't going to affect that. But it's going to make aerial ledge cancels so much more risky now...

Sactly

I also have a notched controller I won at rubicon helps immensely with that.

Just reminds me of how you have to have accuracy with inputs in street fighter. Precision also refers to execution.

Zelda has always had a high skill cap. Imo.

 

[Squii The Fish]

Ledge cancels still work: https://twitter.com/cayiika/status/1013093068717940737

Youtube upload if Twitter is iffy

 

[Katy Parry]

What’s going on here?

Looks like Zelda cannot be grabbed or attacked before the Phantom comes out, or it will die. Makes more sense now. She can’t control it if she’s preoccupied.

In this clip, Zelda has the choice to:

Pop Phantom early
Roll/dash/downtilt spam immediately after frame 76 (gorl doesn’t know in the clip)

 

[KlicKlac]

What’s going on here?

Looks like Zelda cannot be grabbed or attacked before the Phantom comes out, or it will die. Makes more sense now. She can’t control it if she’s preoccupied.

In this clip, Zelda has the choice to:

Pop Phantom early
Roll/dash/downtilt spam immediately after frame 76 (gorl doesn’t know in the clip)

I'm going to assume it was Mario's pummel that hit the phantom. Just to make me feel better as it's hard to tell lol

 

[Katy Parry]

I'm going to assume it was Mario's pummel that hit the phantom. Just to make me feel better as it's hard to tell lol

So if the phantom is hit at all before it comes out it diez? Wonder how the health truly wirks now, so confusing >\\>

I mean you'd think it could tank a pummel at the very least...that's why I'm convinced if she's hit before it comes out it stops...but maybe it's a bug. If she gets the charge off, nothing should stop it, because she risked charging and got it off. Like that's such a huge disadvantage it's kind of ridiculous, makes charging a lot less safe. Def a good but specific-use move. I still will be spamming it anyway. XD

 

[otheusrex]

Apologies in advance for a long diatribe on what amounts to be a simple Point of Order statement...

I'm not sure if anyone has ever mentioned this here yet, but 'priority' isn't a real quality that any move has in smash. People use it as a convenient yet misleading shorthand to describe the relative likelihood of advantage between different hitboxes. Wavebuster (one of the Project M designers for Zelda) had an infamous pet peeve with people using the term 'priority,' and I'm inclined to agree as I find it suggests things about smash's game engine that aren't true. This should be evident by the differing situations people describe when they say a certain move has 'priority.' For instance, I've heard people say Marth's attacks have lots of priority, when most likely, that person is thinking specifically about the disjointed quality of many of his attacks being hard for other characters to outspace safely, or I've heard someone say that Peach's moves have lots of priority, which most likely refers to how her attacks have so much knockback that even when she trades in an interaction, the effect of her hitboxes are often more harmful for the other character she traded hits with.

In either of these cases, and most cases where I hear people use the term 'priority,' people are just using a shorthand term to describe some other quality of hitboxes and not actually suggesting that smash's engine ranks hitboxes that overlap each other according to numerical criteria to see which attack will trump the other. However, I have heard enough people speaking as though smash's engine actually does this to infer that the term 'priority' has directly fostered this misinterpretation. Since 'priority' is just a stand-in term for more correct qualities, and because the term leads to confusion, I think people should try to avoid using it when talking about hitboxes.

 

[Katy Parry]

Apologies in advance for a long diatribe on what amounts to be a simple Point of Order statement...

I'm not sure if anyone has ever mentioned this here yet, but 'priority' isn't a real quality that any move has in smash. People use it as a convenient yet misleading shorthand to describe the relative likelihood of advantage between different hitboxes. Wavebuster (one of the Project M designers for Zelda) had an infamous pet peeve with people using the term 'priority,' and I'm inclined to agree as I find it suggests things about smash's game engine that aren't true. This should be evident by the differing situations people describe when they say a certain move has 'priority.' For instance, I've heard people say Marth's attacks have lots of priority, when most likely, that person is thinking specifically about the disjointed quality of many of his attacks being hard for other characters to outspace safely, or I've heard someone say that Peach's moves have lots of priority, which most likely refers to how her attacks have so much knockback that even when she trades in an interaction, the effect of her hitboxes are often more harmful for the other character she traded hits with.

In either of these cases, and most cases where I hear people use the term 'priority,' people are just using a shorthand term to describe some other quality of hitboxes and not actually suggesting that smash's engine ranks hitboxes that overlap each other according to numerical criteria to see which attack will trump the other. However, I have heard enough people speaking as though smash's engine actually does this to infer that the term 'priority' has directly fostered this misinterpretation. Since 'priority' is just a stand-in term for more correct qualities, and because the term leads to confusion, I think people should try to avoid using it when talking about hitboxes.

It's just a different definition of the word. Priority is a catch all term. Sorry for any confusion confusion, but while I understand your point, it is a word that gets a certain message across. Priority is usually always followed by the explanation of what that person specifically means. If I hear priority in a Melee tournament, I'll perk up and pay attention. Most players understand priority isn't the actual definition of the word, more of a catch all, point across term. There's a ton of depth to Melee let alone all smash games.

Anyway, i do believe down air DOES IN FACT HAVE TWO HITS. THE HITS ARE AUDIBLE IN THIS NEW VIDEO AT 0:45.

This is just conjecture on my end but I feel you can hear a sound play each time she throws a kick out. Her down air plays two sounds

https://youtu.be/kV3Uzuqr3tM

 

[evmaxy54]

It's just a different definition of the word. Priority is a catch all term. Sorry for any confusion confusion, but while I understand your point, it is a word that gets a certain message across. Priority is usually always followed by the explanation of what that person specifically means. If I hear priority in a Melee tournament, I'll perk up and pay attention. Most players understand priority isn't the actual definition of the word, more of a catch all, point across term. There's a ton of depth to Melee let alone all smash games.

Anyway, i do believe down air DOES IN FACT HAVE TWO HITS. THE HITS ARE AUDIBLE IN THIS NEW VIDEO AT 0:45.

This is just conjecture on my end but I feel you can hear a sound play each time she throws a kick out. Her down air plays two sounds

https://youtu.be/kV3Uzuqr3tM

It's one hit.

It's an echo

 

[Katy Parry]

It's one hit.

It's an echo

I think the sound indicates she's starting the sweespot, but the sour spot seems to be larger and easier to hit

 

[BJN39]

It’s two hit-boxes, but not literally two hits. It has a really weird visual and sound effect. Same as S4.


I don’t mean this as a drag on anyone but this happened last game where people suddenly forgot everything about Zelda’s moveset and sounds/gfx and jumped to like, a hundred conclusions.

 

[Katy Parry]

It’s two hit-boxes, but not literally two hits. It has a really weird visual and sound effect. Same as S4.


I don’t mean this as a drag on anyone but this happened last game where people suddenly forgot everything about Zelda’s moveset and sounds/gfx and jumped to like, a hundred conclusions.

Yeah sorry, I'm probably the most guilty gorl here in regards to that haha. But phantom is looking interesting...if it's invincible in front but can be destroyed by hitting Zelda/hitting it from behind...what would do you think of that?

 

[BJN39]

Yeah sorry, I'm probably the most guilty gorl here in regards to that haha. But phantom is looking interesting...if it's invincible in front but can be destroyed by hitting Zelda/hitting it from behind...what would do you think of that?

It would be nice to be invincible even partially, so would bring just all around higher in durability tbh. I feel like this is the kind of thoughtful design (the frequent enemy weakness to being hit behind) that actually...wouldn’t end up happening, particularly on Zelda because she gets done dirty so much, but I couldn’t say for sure it isn’t a thing so maybe she’s getting more love now.

Competitively the invincibility would be lovely for a projectile since that would be very much like non-clank projectiles, aka good. I’m just waiting to hear if you can still reflect a phantom....because that would just kill this. Then it would just be invincible at Zelda.

Side thought, being able to act a bit before the full charge launch makes a reflectable phantom less of a total fail. At least you won’t just be sitting there ready to take the reverses phantom like before lol. No more opponents sitting in reflector and making her look dumb. That is, if it’s still reflectable. Haven’t seen ANYTHING about that

 

[Katy Parry]

It would be nice to be invincible even partially, so would bring just all around higher in durability tbh. I feel like this is the kind of thoughtful design (the frequent enemy weakness to being hit behind) that actually...wouldn’t end up happening, particularly on Zelda because she gets done dirty so much, but I couldn’t say for sure it isn’t a thing so maybe she’s getting more love now.

Competitively the invincibility would be lovely for a projectile since that would be very much like non-clank projectiles, aka good. I’m just waiting to hear if you can still reflect a phantom....because that would just kill this. Then it would just be invincible at Zelda.

Side thought, being able to act a bit before the full charge launch makes a reflectable phantom less of a total fail. At least you won’t just be sitting there ready to take the reverses phantom like before lol. No more opponents sitting in reflector and making her look dumb. That is, if it’s still reflectable. Haven’t seen ANYTHING about that

Come to think of it I haven't seen that either. If it is reflectable, it would make sense to me that if it's not delayed, she's screwed. But if it's delayed and they go for a reflect, they're screwed even more. The damage implication/multiplier would be nuts, being reflected TWICE. Plus, Nayrus can still cover someone trying to roll behind the phantom or you for a hit.

by the way is it just me or does Nayrus keep your momentum? I've seen a Zelda jump and fall with nayrus and it seems like a better option now. In smash 4 it was good IMO but punishable of course

all I know is Melee and it's a lifesaver out of shield option. You can even buffer it out of farores wind to punish a slow punish attempt

 

[KlicKlac]

I want to know more details know about the uncompleted stages of the phantom. Like, does the kick or punch stages still block attacks and projectiles? And how much end lag does zelda have for the non-fully charged stages because it was super laggy in smash 4.

 

[Luminario]

That is, if it’s still reflectable. Haven’t seen ANYTHING about that

During the Treehouse stream the first hit bounced off Link's shield before he shielded the second hit, so I assume it's still counted as a projectile.
I wonder how strong Nayru is compared to other reflectors. Would it be able to go past the breaking point of other reflectors due to the fact it only lasts for like a second? Or would trying to reflect the Phantom just be suicide as it bounces back and forther before breaking Nayru first?

 

[Rickster]

I want to know more details know about the uncompleted stages of the phantom. Like, does the kick or punch stages still block attacks and projectiles? And how much end lag does zelda have for the non-fully charged stages because it was super laggy in smash 4.

From the footage I saw from the Treehouse, the endlag looked waaay better. The animation for using the Phantom while it's already summoned was much less punishing as well. It looks a bit different though. She points instead of...doing that dramatic wave thing. That makes me wonder if you can have the delayed Phantom attack immediately if you hit DownB again

 

[KlicKlac]

From the footage I saw from the Treehouse, the endlag looked waaay better. The animation for using the Phantom while it's already summoned was much less punishing as well. It looks a bit different though. She points instead of...doing that dramatic wave thing. That makes me wonder if you can have the delayed Phantom attack immediately if you hit DownB again

yeah I took another look at the treehouse footage and it looks faster, hopefully. Less endlag + plus instant ability to summon another phantom if one is destroyed would be great.

The lag was really holding the phantom back in smash 4.

 

[Nethermoosen]

So, I watched this Zelda vs Ridley match and noticed that it seems like the Phantom doesn’t take damage from Ridley, but if Ridley hits Zelda, she loses concentration on the Phantom.

Edit: To clarify, Ridley hits a fully charged Phantom just before its attack animation and it does nothing from what I could tell. However, even a grab on Zelda made the Phantom collapse. Seems like she has to “concentrate” on the spell. Grabs and attacks landed on Zelda seem to break her “concentration” on the Phantom spell.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NtY6DGrSKJo

 

[Katy Parry]

So, I watched this Zelda vs Ridley match and noticed that it seems like the Phantom doesn’t take damage from Ridley, but if Ridley hits Zelda, she loses concentration on the Phantom.

Edit: To clarify, Ridley hits a fully charged Phantom just before its attack animation and it does nothing from what I could tell. However, even a grab on Zelda made the Phantom collapse. Seems like she has to “concentrate” on the spell. Grabs and attacks landed on Zelda seem to break her “concentration” on the Phantom spell.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NtY6DGrSKJo

Yeah, that's what I've gathered too. Because of this, it seems invulnerable. If it's hit from BEHIND it dies as well.

 

[Rickster]

Just gonna copy paste this here since it could be pretty major and I don't wanna type more

Anyone else see that massive blindspot like 15 seconds in? I hope so badly that gets fixed; if it doesn't the move will be horribly underwhelming. It's happened in several other Zelda videos as well...against large characters no less.

Also, I've been watching this gif a few more times now:

Notice how the Phantom attacks much earlier than it has in other footage despite being fully charged. It attacks perfectly in tandem with Zelda's dtilt. My theory is that if Zelda takes any action beyond moving, the Phantom goes on to attack (grabs could maybe be an exception?). If so, that debunks my previous theory that pressing downb again will command the Phantom to attack earlier. Still, this could be pretty major if I'm correct. I honestly hope I'm wrong for the sake of Zelda...

Sigh, this move is looking less and less impressive each video...

Edit: welp the gif didn't quote over but my post in the video thread can be viewed if you click the small white arrow at the top of the quote

Editmore: alternatively, it's possible that the Phantom won't auto attack unless Zelda actually lands a move, which is slightly better but still unfortunate

 

[Nethermoosen]

Yeah, that's what I've gathered too. Because of this, it seems invulnerable. If it's hit from BEHIND it dies as well.

It does if hit from behind? Was it clear that Zelda wasn’t in the hitbox?

Just gonna copy paste this here since it could be pretty major and I don't wanna type more



Edit: welp the gif didn't quote over but my post in the video thread can be viewed if you click the small white arrow at the top of the quote

Editmore: alternatively, it's possible that the Phantom won't auto attack unless Zelda actually lands a move, which is slightly better but still unfortunate

That would be unfortunate, but it doesn’t have me worried either. This iteration of Phantom Slash is already loads better than the last.

 

[Rickster]

It does if hit from behind? Was it clear that Zelda wasn’t in the hitbox?



That would be unfortunate, but it doesn’t have me worried either. This iteration of Phantom Slash is already loads better than the last.

I just watched the Treehouse section again, and Zelda was able to Nayru's without the Phantom auto attacking. It probably attacks if she lands a move

 

[Nethermoosen]

I just watched the Treehouse section again, and Zelda was able to Nayru's without the Phantom auto attacking. It probably attacks if she lands a move

I’ll check out some vids and see if I can help confirm.

 

[Rickster]

I’ll check out some vids and see if I can help confirm.

I watched the gif more closely (again lol) and the Phantom does indeed attack in tandem with the first dtilt that misses. It's possible that the move actually wasn't fully charged at this point. If so, it looks like Zelda can attack directly out of the charge, which would be really nice

This move is making me have an emotional rollercoaster lmao

Edit: if anyone is interested I've made like 10 edits to the linked post trying to figure out this thing

 

[Katy Parry]

I watched the gif more closely (again lol) and the Phantom does indeed attack in tandem with the first dtilt that misses. It's possible that the move actually wasn't fully charged at this point. If so, it looks like Zelda can attack directly out of the charge, which would be really nice

This move is making me have an emotional rollercoaster lmao

Edit: if anyone is interested I've made like 10 edits to the linked post trying to figure out this thing

I think its apparent now why I've been freaking out, this is going to make her mid tier at Least but her neutral is insanely powerful with this new tool.

Now, I'm not understanding the Nayrus auto attack thing. So are you saying if she FULLY charges and then Nayrus, it DOESNT attack?

Can you post the gif in question?

Also first hit of jab is like frame 7 cooldown, I'll have to double check

 

[Rickster]

I think its apparent now why I've been freaking out, this is going to make her mid tier at Least but her neutral is insanely powerful with this new tool.

Now, I'm not understanding the Nayrus auto attack thing. So are you saying if she FULLY charges and then Nayrus, it DOESNT attack?

Can you post the gif in question?

Also first hit of jab is like frame 7 cooldown, I'll have to double check

In the Nairo video (KlicKlac's gif) the Phantom attacks in tandem with her dtilt without a delay. I thought it was possible that the move wasn't fully charged, but then I remembered that Zelda has a hand wave animation that plays when it's released early. The animation did not happen so we can only assume the move was in fact fully charged. But then I watched this Treehouse footage again and she is able to Nayru's without the Phantom attacking early (https://youtu.be/5r-snDBcXJE?t=7m52s). So that seems to somewhat debunk the "Phantom will attack if Zelda does anything other than move" theory. But it still doesn't explain why Nairo's Phantom had no delay or release endlag in the gif. It seems to be some sort of hybrid full charge, where it has properties of both being full charge (no release endlag) and partially charged (immediate attack)

 

[Nethermoosen]

In the Nairo video (KlicKlac's gif) the Phantom attacks in tandem with her dtilt without a delay. I thought it was possible that the move wasn't fully charged, but then I remembered that Zelda has a hand wave animation that plays when it's released early. The animation did not happen so we can only assume the move was in fact fully charged. But then I watched this Treehouse footage again and she is able to Nayru's without the Phantom attacking early (https://youtu.be/5r-snDBcXJE?t=7m52s). So that seems to somewhat debunk the "Phantom will attack if Zelda does anything other than move" theory. But it still doesn't explain why Nairo's Phantom had no delay or release endlag in the gif. It seems to be some sort of hybrid full charge, where it has properties of both being full charge (no release endlag) and partially charged (immediate attack)

I watched the original video of the gif you posted and when she dtilts that first time, she missed and yet the Phantom still attacked. It’s an anomaly for the time being. It was fully charged because it did have a delay. Or it was a bug. Either way, she did not land the first stilt and hit with a second one right after, but the phantom had already attacked by then.

It almost looks as if he Dtilt canceled, because he goes straight to crouching

Edit: I watched 10 videos and could not find another situation that is relevant.

Ninja’d. I missed the replies. Lol. But I agree. It’s either something akin to a bug or programming issues, or she really can cancel the charge to do something else.

It’s exciting at the very least.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

How is that low key confirmed as a bug? They would have to have intentionally made new data for the characters stage collision boxes to detect other characters as a “wall”.

Mark my words, it will stay. It Is just another new mechanic that forces stage control. In any other fighting game you cannot run through your opponent. You walk around them, or jump around them, or hell be like Link in Soul Calibur and slide under their legs. It doesn’t make sense. It is clearly intentional, they’ve even show Marth on Treehouse being able to not run past Donkey Kong, like, on purpose... if anything, maybe this is another mechanic buff overall. This prevents losing stage control. You don’t work as hard zoning because they can’t run past you if you’re grounded. Allows you to call out jumps, or don’t call it out and punish etc. but a bug of this....um, creation...that affects every character wouldn’t have made in this far into the development of the game. Sakurai wouldn’t have not noticed that. Maybe wavedashing not working correctly, and bayou witch twist still not having increased KBG the last hit (so it doesn’t always combo into itself or anything rather) yeah those are glitches.

I think it's misinterpreted; I think they MEANT Fox Side-B or other moves that typically goes through things is suppose to but the actual characters cannot when shielding. It would make more sense.

Can you move past a character when they're not shielding??

 

[Katy Parry]

I think it's misinterpreted; I think they MEANT Fox Side-B or other moves that typically goes through things is suppose to but the actual characters cannot when shielding. It would make more sense.

Can you move past a character when they're not shielding??

No. You cannot. You will drag them. Even if they're grounded. If they're in a tech situation you can run and they will get pushed, like any normal fighting game.

I watched the original video of the gif you posted and when she dtilts that first time, she missed and yet the Phantom still attacked. It’s an anomaly for the time being. It was fully charged because it did have a delay. Or it was a bug. Either way, she did not land the first stilt and hit with a second one right after, but the phantom had already attacked by then.

It almost looks as if he Dtilt canceled, because he goes straight to crouching

Edit: I watched 10 videos and could not find another situation that is relevant.

Ninja’d. I missed the replies. Lol. But I agree. It’s either something akin to a bug or programming issues, or she really can cancel the charge to do something else.

It’s exciting at the very least.

In the Nairo video (KlicKlac's gif) the Phantom attacks in tandem with her dtilt without a delay. I thought it was possible that the move wasn't fully charged, but then I remembered that Zelda has a hand wave animation that plays when it's released early. The animation did not happen so we can only assume the move was in fact fully charged. But then I watched this Treehouse footage again and she is able to Nayru's without the Phantom attacking early (https://youtu.be/5r-snDBcXJE?t=7m52s). So that seems to somewhat debunk the "Phantom will attack if Zelda does anything other than move" theory. But it still doesn't explain why Nairo's Phantom had no delay or release endlag in the gif. It seems to be some sort of hybrid full charge, where it has properties of both being full charge (no release endlag) and partially charged (immediate attack)

What’s happening is Zelda is able to cancel the end animation frames (throwing her arm out and back down to her side) as soon as she releases Phantom.
He released the Phantom manually at Stage 5, and then mashed down A, for down tilt.

So the input was:

(from platform) Smash Down [HOLD] & B, (charge to fifth level) B (to release Phantom,) A, A

I think most people who are playing the demo are still holding down and B when you only have to single press the input. This has been confirmed on the Nintendo Treehouse, as well as the Smash Direct. (All charge moves are now single press moves)

So something simple would be....we can do the first level charge and if they block it, we can grab. Zelda is a zoning character so that makes sense to me. No different than jab to grab in Melee with Peach. Or float cancelling. So we can start charge in the air, they block it, you get a grab. They have to attack Zelda from behind moreso than the front now in the neutral. If you read the roll after they block phantom, you input turn grab. Zelda cannot turn the direction of the Phantom, so allowing her to cancel the animation allows her a shot at the neutral if they roll.

I am really excited. I’ve been playing Soul Calibur for years, as well as Blazblue Xtag currently. =)

Here’s another clip showcasing Platform canceling with Phantom. Zelda is Player 1.

We should call this a Phantom Fall. it’s fun to say fast, too.

 

[Nethermoosen]

No. You cannot. You will drag them. Even if they're grounded. If they're in a tech situation you can run and they will get pushed, like any normal fighting game.





What’s happening is Zelda is able to cancel the end animation frames (throwing her arm out and back down to her side) as soon as she releases Phantom.
He released the Phantom manually at Stage 5, and then mashed down A, for down tilt.

So the input was:

(from platform) Smash Down [HOLD] & B, (charge to fifth level) B (to release Phantom,) A, A

I think most people who are playing the demo are still holding down and B when you only have to single press the input. This has been confirmed on the Nintendo Treehouse, as well as the Smash Direct. (All charge moves are now single press moves)

So something simple would be....we can do the first level charge and if they block it, we can grab. Zelda is a zoning character so that makes sense to me. No different than jab to grab in Melee with Peach. Or float cancelling. So we can start charge in the air, they block it, you get a grab. They have to attack Zelda from behind moreso than the front now in the neutral. If you read the roll after they block phantom, you input turn grab. Zelda cannot turn the direction of the Phantom, so allowing her to cancel the animation allows her a shot at the neutral if they roll.

I am really excited. I’ve been playing Soul Calibur for years, as well as Blazblue Xtag currently. =)

Here’s another clip showcasing Platform canceling with Phantom. Zelda is Player 1.

We should call this a Phantom Fall. it’s fun to say fast, too.

So, Marth’s neutral special is also single press over hold?

Still, funny we can’t find anything like Nairo did. Those guys above are platform canceling, but they still aren’t getting the Phantom to attack while they attack in such a way that we can’t even tell whether it was a full charge or not.

Where did you get the information that it can be cancelled mid charge? Can it be canceled into another move, say, at stage 3? Stage 1?

 

[Katy Parry]

So, Marth’s neutral special is also single press over hold?

Still, funny we can’t find anything like Nairo did. Those guys above are platform canceling, but they still aren’t getting the Phantom to attack while they attack in such a way that we can’t even tell whether it was a full charge or not.

Where did you get the information that it can be cancelled mid charge? Can it be canceled into another move, say, at stage 3? Stage 1?

So, Marth’s neutral special is also single press over hold?

Still, funny we can’t find anything like Nairo did. Those guys above are platform canceling, but they still aren’t getting the Phantom to attack while they attack in such a way that we can’t even tell whether it was a full charge or not.

Where did you get the information that it can be cancelled mid charge? Can it be canceled into another move, say, at stage 3? Stage 1?

The END ANIMATION (end lag) can be cancelled. You release the phantom at whatever stage you want. That’s how Nario was able to down tilt. He didn’t just cancel phantom with an attack, but he happened to release at stage 5 and then cancelled the rest of the moves animation because he was mashing down tilt. This means the move has IASA frames, just like Uptilt, downtilt, etc

 

[Airswimmer]

The END ANIMATION (end lag) can be cancelled. You release the phantom at whatever stage you want. That’s how Nario was able to down tilt. He didn’t just cancel phantom with an attack, but he happened to release at stage 5 and then cancelled the rest of the moves animation because he was mashing down tilt. This means the move has IASA frames, just like Uptilt, downtilt, etc

Actually, Nairo held the charge for the full 69 frames that are needed for the Phantom to be fully charged before the first Dtilt.
Zelda is able to act on frame 70 after charging for 69 frames in all instances.
Whether or not Phantom being released that early is a function of Phantom's release being controllable or a bug associated with dropping through a platform is up in the air, but I don't think there's any kind of animation cancelling happening.