Laijin
Smash Hero
Everyone who thinks Falco is not a counter Young Link has clearly never played a good Falco with Young Link.
End of argument.
End of argument.
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Young Link vs Falco
- Thread starter bloodvayne
- Start date
pockyD
Smash Legend
i'm sure you have good points; you're just doing a bad job of explaining them
Renth
Smash Hero
anyone who thinks DaShizWiz and Mathos are bad falco players have no idea what they're talking about
End of arguement.
CStrife187
Smash Journeyman
post some vids of a yl holding its own against shiz. I just don't know if I believe that shiz was afraid to play yl with falco. Maybe he was sandbagging and trying to make you feel good at the same time. falco vs yl is not even at all.
D20
Smash Lord
Ok... here's how it went down.
Shiz is in my pool. He sits down at my TV and asks...
Shiz: Who do you main?
D20: It's a secret, you'll find out, haha.
Shiz: You know I main Falco?
D20: Yeah, you're kind of a big deal.
Shiz: Haha, let's play.
D20: Sounds good.
Shiz: *Picks Falco*
D20: *Picks YL*
Shiz: No... I know what I'm getting into there. *Picks Fox*
D20: Are you serious?
Shiz: My brother plays him all the time, that matchup is rough.
D20: Ok, be like that, haha. *Picks Marth*
Shiz: *Picks Falco*
D20: Whatever, we're going to go double blind.
Both matches ended up being Fox/Marth. I think he 2-stocked me both games. It would have been worse had I gone YL against his Fox though.
Still, Falco counters YL. Generally, I'd say 3 out of 4 games go to Falco. For me, I lose maybe 2 out of 3. Against Fox? I'll win maybe 1 out of 20.
Shiz is in my pool. He sits down at my TV and asks...
Shiz: Who do you main?
D20: It's a secret, you'll find out, haha.
Shiz: You know I main Falco?
D20: Yeah, you're kind of a big deal.
Shiz: Haha, let's play.
D20: Sounds good.
Shiz: *Picks Falco*
D20: *Picks YL*
Shiz: No... I know what I'm getting into there. *Picks Fox*
D20: Are you serious?
Shiz: My brother plays him all the time, that matchup is rough.
D20: Ok, be like that, haha. *Picks Marth*
Shiz: *Picks Falco*
D20: Whatever, we're going to go double blind.
Both matches ended up being Fox/Marth. I think he 2-stocked me both games. It would have been worse had I gone YL against his Fox though.
Still, Falco counters YL. Generally, I'd say 3 out of 4 games go to Falco. For me, I lose maybe 2 out of 3. Against Fox? I'll win maybe 1 out of 20.
Giggidax
Smash Ace
lol @ shiz scared of the youngin! but i understand, nair edgeguarding pwns falco.
Laijin
Smash Hero
Uhh..wow.
I dunno about Shiz's Falco then. How does a Falco be afraid to play Young Link? That does'nt make any sense at all.
I dunno..to be afraid to play a Young Link when your Falco, maybe the Shiz is'nt all as great as everyone claims him to be?
I dunno about Shiz's Falco then. How does a Falco be afraid to play Young Link? That does'nt make any sense at all.
I dunno..to be afraid to play a Young Link when your Falco, maybe the Shiz is'nt all as great as everyone claims him to be?
Miharu
Smash Hero
I just browsed through this. It says that Shiz doesn't want to play Falco against YL in tourney, and opts to go Fox instead. If you thought about it a little bit, maybe he just prefers the Fox vs. Y Link matchup instead of the Falco vs. Y. Link matchup. Don't bash on his Falco just because a character matchup choice. That's just stupid.
Laijin
Smash Hero
Oh. .__.
Well, I still don't see why as Young Link handles Fox a lot~ easier than Falco. With Fox, it can go either way. :\ But whatever..
I think I actually have play Shiz before. Like a year ago. o_0
Jiraiya_Inc
Smash Apprentice
wth its much harder to play fox than falco **** those shine kills
pockyD
Smash Legend
Laijin
Smash Hero
I dunno dood.
I've never even seen him play before.
So i'm just basing this off the fact that he does'nt like playing YL against Falco. xD
takieddine
Smash Master
Tournaments are about playing to win.
Apparently shiz thought he'd have an easier time with fox as opposed to falco, otherwise why would he choose fox, its not his main.
That is the point if you missed it.
Apparently shiz thought he'd have an easier time with fox as opposed to falco, otherwise why would he choose fox, its not his main.
That is the point if you missed it.
Laijin
Smash Hero
But the point I am making is that Fox does not have an easy time against YL.
Falco does.
Falco does.
pockyD
Smash Legend
and everyone else's point is that fox has a much easier time vs YL than falco does
I dont really play y.link or falco, but i know shiz has been playing a hell of alot more fox at tournies lately.
Went up to pound2, he didnt play that much falco in pools (Maybe in singles brackets, i didnt stay).
went down to Gigabits in FL, he barely played Falco at all.
So it's not like he doesnt play fox or anything.
Went up to pound2, he didnt play that much falco in pools (Maybe in singles brackets, i didnt stay).
went down to Gigabits in FL, he barely played Falco at all.
So it's not like he doesnt play fox or anything.
takieddine
Smash Master
HAHAHAHA oh wow...
DaShizWiz not using Falco against Ylink is far from concrete evidence. As stated before, he chose to use a character he was already familiar with, Fox, instead of his main, which isn't that big of a deal. Seeing PC Chris change to Marth or Fox doesn't really change anything. It just means he doesn't like that character matchup. KDJ switches to Sheik over Fox, nothing to talk about. But why is it different when DaShizWiz changes from Falco to Fox?
L33teHaxor
Smash Apprentice
OK here's what I think,
1. Space Animals are a bad match up for ylink in general.
2. And how did a big argument come out of Bloodvayne asking for videos of ylink vs Falco. He didn't ask if falco was a bad match up.
3. Terr13 makes a good point.
1. Space Animals are a bad match up for ylink in general.
2. And how did a big argument come out of Bloodvayne asking for videos of ylink vs Falco. He didn't ask if falco was a bad match up.
3. Terr13 makes a good point.
Jiraiya_Inc
Smash Apprentice
nice sig ... confused on the confo now
pockyD
Smash Legend
wtf that sounds EXACTLY like evidence
Jiraiya_Inc
Smash Apprentice
well for now i like the falco vs y.link match up (coming from a player who mains y.link )
bloodvayne
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2007
- Messages
- 150
All these posts and still no videos?
:/
:/
Miharu
Smash Hero
Uh, he doesn't? Jesus, I have to spell it out for you.
Falco's pressure game relies on his lasers quite a bit. Without constant application of pressure, the opponent is free to do whatever he/she wants. Most characters don't have an answer to constant SHL spam, but Y. Link is one of the few who do. Ever tried play against a projectile spamming Y. Link as Falco? It's not as easy as it seems. It's hard to combo them if you can never hit them in the first place, and projectiles help to keep Falco away.
Fox, on the other hand, is relatively unaffected (compared to Falco) by the barrage of projectiles, since his game doesn't rely on using lasers to keep the opponent in check. It's more about his shine and grab game, and Fox is in general more maneuverable than Falco is.
Then there's the part about personal preference. Have you ever even taken into consideration that maybe he doesn't like the Y. Link vs. Falco matchup? You also have to take into mind that Shiz doesn't represent all Falco players.
Now if Shiz would just come in and explain to us, I'm sure it'd shut a lot of people up, since that's what a large part of the argument seems to be hinged upon.
Not liking a matchup doesn't mean its a bad matchup. Falco vs. Falco is not a bad matchup, but PC goes Marth. Fox vs. Falco is not a bad matchup, but KDJ goes Marth against PC. Fox vs. Marth is not a bad matchup, but he changes. Falco vs. Doc is not a bad matchup, but Forward went Sheik against Bob$.
Laijin called me(as well as every other Falco on the boards....Much Like a Guild request or somethin) here ALL the way from the Falco forums to Shed some light on this issue.
Now The 1st time I played a GOOD Y.Link I compared it to one of those Cheap Megaman Zero Bosses who have Nine projectile FLying around and when you get close the STILL find a way to PWN you...Until I beat them (in the very 1st match-up) While Falco is not THE counter to YL He DEFINTLY has the Advantage. I can Argue your Point: SHL Not as effective, DI pillaring, UP-B,Bad Falco Recovery. BUT Falco's Storng points simply outweigh YL's Yes the SHL Spam isnt ALWAYS effective but it is DISRUPTING and FRUSTRATING. SPamming the SHL as I run into you can
A.Cancel the Boomerang during the opening animation
B.Make you Hold your Bomb
C.Force YOur Arrows back into the Quiver
D.MOST IMPORTANTLY cover the Range your Prjectiles CANT.
This Kinda Takes Care of your projectile spamming. ALSO, When you DI the Shine @ a low percentage your a waveshine away from another one. Its not like We cant Jump out of the shine or anything. (Falco Pursues his Prey MINI SAUSAGE LINKS) {Lolz My bad}
The Up B....Simply Jump over it. Aerial? Nair!
Hmm. Mobility Needless to say that Falco is undeniably Faster, More Moblie, and more Agile than the boy.(No matter your method of Movement)
Weight and strength Difference; YL Hits softer AND is light, Falco is Heavy and is known for knockback.
Falco's Taunt is shorter{lolz Hahaha}
Hrm.....Yah thats about it. If anyone can argue against me PLEASE do. AND If you wonder why Shiz Doesnt use Falco in YL matches PM him....Dont assume THANKS
.......Waiting for a counter argument
BTW Laijin whats the Hardest Falco Youve played?
And someone who thinks opposite...Whats the Hardest Falco youve beaten?
Now The 1st time I played a GOOD Y.Link I compared it to one of those Cheap Megaman Zero Bosses who have Nine projectile FLying around and when you get close the STILL find a way to PWN you...Until I beat them (in the very 1st match-up) While Falco is not THE counter to YL He DEFINTLY has the Advantage. I can Argue your Point: SHL Not as effective, DI pillaring, UP-B,Bad Falco Recovery. BUT Falco's Storng points simply outweigh YL's Yes the SHL Spam isnt ALWAYS effective but it is DISRUPTING and FRUSTRATING. SPamming the SHL as I run into you can
A.Cancel the Boomerang during the opening animation
B.Make you Hold your Bomb
C.Force YOur Arrows back into the Quiver
D.MOST IMPORTANTLY cover the Range your Prjectiles CANT.
This Kinda Takes Care of your projectile spamming. ALSO, When you DI the Shine @ a low percentage your a waveshine away from another one. Its not like We cant Jump out of the shine or anything. (Falco Pursues his Prey MINI SAUSAGE LINKS) {Lolz My bad}
The Up B....Simply Jump over it. Aerial? Nair!
Hmm. Mobility Needless to say that Falco is undeniably Faster, More Moblie, and more Agile than the boy.(No matter your method of Movement)
Weight and strength Difference; YL Hits softer AND is light, Falco is Heavy and is known for knockback.
Falco's Taunt is shorter{lolz Hahaha}
Hrm.....Yah thats about it. If anyone can argue against me PLEASE do. AND If you wonder why Shiz Doesnt use Falco in YL matches PM him....Dont assume THANKS
.......Waiting for a counter argument
BTW Laijin whats the Hardest Falco Youve played?
And someone who thinks opposite...Whats the Hardest Falco youve beaten?
Laijin
Smash Hero
Hardest Falco?
This unknown Falco player from Savannah named Articanus. He has only been to one tournament, but his Falco is a friggin beast. srsly. Best Falco in GA by far.
I'll have some match vids up against him soon from the tournament. xD
This unknown Falco player from Savannah named Articanus. He has only been to one tournament, but his Falco is a friggin beast. srsly. Best Falco in GA by far.
I'll have some match vids up against him soon from the tournament. xD
pockyD
Smash Legend
the main points we presented (or attempted to present) were
1. young link can hold his own against falco. NOT counter, just be capable of winning, not unlike any of your other typical one-side-has-an-advantage-but-the-other-can-still-win matchups (falco vs. falcon, fox vs. samus, etc)
2. young link does significantly worse against fox than against falco
just makign sure we're on the same page here; i'm fairly certain no one believes young link COUNTERS falco
1. young link can hold his own against falco. NOT counter, just be capable of winning, not unlike any of your other typical one-side-has-an-advantage-but-the-other-can-still-win matchups (falco vs. falcon, fox vs. samus, etc)
2. young link does significantly worse against fox than against falco
just makign sure we're on the same page here; i'm fairly certain no one believes young link COUNTERS falco
yah we are (well actually im on page 59) *lol @ your Sig being a book an the page thing*
And I would Argue point two but my Friend is a Fox user not me
Oh and Laijin your "unknown" Smasher KILLED the Logos part of my Argument but no hard feelings lolz. BTW come back to the Falco Forum (Renth was mad @ You)
And I would Argue point two but my Friend is a Fox user not me
Oh and Laijin your "unknown" Smasher KILLED the Logos part of my Argument but no hard feelings lolz. BTW come back to the Falco Forum (Renth was mad @ You)
Renth
Smash Hero
I'm not mad at anyone i just think if your going to drag a ka-jillion other people in an argument focus on the points of it and not the trash talk.
Jash
Smash Lord
I'm not going to say Falco has the advantage i'm not going to say young link has the advantage either for that matter. It's a very even match in my opinion but in most cases i've seen D20 destroy falcos on FD with ease. If someone as refined as DaShizWiz wouldn't play Falco vs. young link doesn't that tell you something? Pillar combos are easy to get out with young link him being a tiny character ever hear of Smash DI?However characters like Bowser GG good luck next time.
Falco is not a hard match for Young Link
Young Link is not a hard match for Falco
It's a scary match for both parties.
Nuff Said.
Out of every post i have seen here, i could not agree more with this then anything. It is quite possible for a Young Link to destroy Falco and a Falco to destroy a Young Link. All we have to do is look at the advantages they both have against eachother. Now im hearing our fellow Young Link user D20 beating Falcos in FD just brings my heart to joy
nice work man. Now my opinion is....if Falco double jumps and Young Link catches him with a Up air once.....Falco is brown bread after that. Any good Young Link would just spam Up airs, kick him off the stage and edgeguard/edgehog and its all over. Now read Renths post again, think about it, and any good Falco player would know how hard this matchup can be for them.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
this was a funny read..not a young link player..waht's with all the bashing..it's like a herd of animals..i am curious though as to who the top dog ylink players are..i recognize a lot of the names but i don't know how they stacked up in tourneys compared ot hte others
as for dashizwiz...where have you been...most technical falco ever
or he was at least..just my opinion..pretty amazingly good...i don't think he's beaten forward yet..but he's still an extremely upper level falco..top 5-10 i would think
i would say with enough smash di a lot of falco's combos can be ended...even with anticipation..even so overall i agree with the falco player..this match favors falco
as for dashizwiz...where have you been...most technical falco ever
or he was at least..just my opinion..pretty amazingly good...i don't think he's beaten forward yet..but he's still an extremely upper level falco..top 5-10 i would thinki would say with enough smash di a lot of falco's combos can be ended...even with anticipation..even so overall i agree with the falco player..this match favors falco
Timat the Slayer
Smash Journeyman
I'd like to add in my few cents. I don't post very often, so this is obviously worth mentioning.
Young link has a few advantages against falco. Most notably he has the small size, which just helps him get away from pillaring. He's also a relatively mobile character, which helps get rid of the speed that most falco players utilize. He can also gimp 1/2 of falco's recovery options due to his n-air shutting down falco's illusion.
Falco has a decent amount of advantages against Y.link. He can still pillar the **** out of him if he's good enough and the Y.Link player doesn't DI well enough. Falco has priority on almost all of his ground moves. Due to him being a fast faller, he can get out of a lot of good combos that y.link can do to most people.
There are plenty of more things each side has. For example, Y.Links up air is just amazing. it kinda crushes falcos when the Y.Link L-cancels all of them correctly and just bounces falco around for about 80% (I know, Just ask renth how fun it was for him :D ). But just as easily, falco can shut down Y.Link cause his d-air still ***** recovery.
I know this match, and it is difficult for both parties. I've won this match quite a few times, and I've lost just as equally, but almost every time it was a close match.
I think most players here who are experienced Y.link players can agree that while falco is still gay, the lon lon powered milk chugger can still give him hell.
Young link has a few advantages against falco. Most notably he has the small size, which just helps him get away from pillaring. He's also a relatively mobile character, which helps get rid of the speed that most falco players utilize. He can also gimp 1/2 of falco's recovery options due to his n-air shutting down falco's illusion.
Falco has a decent amount of advantages against Y.link. He can still pillar the **** out of him if he's good enough and the Y.Link player doesn't DI well enough. Falco has priority on almost all of his ground moves. Due to him being a fast faller, he can get out of a lot of good combos that y.link can do to most people.
There are plenty of more things each side has. For example, Y.Links up air is just amazing. it kinda crushes falcos when the Y.Link L-cancels all of them correctly and just bounces falco around for about 80% (I know, Just ask renth how fun it was for him :D ). But just as easily, falco can shut down Y.Link cause his d-air still ***** recovery.
I know this match, and it is difficult for both parties. I've won this match quite a few times, and I've lost just as equally, but almost every time it was a close match.
I think most players here who are experienced Y.link players can agree that while falco is still gay, the lon lon powered milk chugger can still give him hell.
DaShizWiz
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2005
- Messages
- 2,283
Thank you for picking that up PockyD. I am not afraid to fight Young Link with Falco. I just dislike the match-up. I do think Falco has the upperhand in the match-up. But I don't think that he has it like so much better than Young Link. I play SmashMac's young link all the time who is the best Young Link in Florida.
And D20 has a nice Young Link. Its just that I don't find the match up too fun while playing as Falco when there are so many projectiles it just annoys me. So I just pick Fox and Shinespike/upthrow to Uair. Because he is definitely easier to use vs Young Link.
Now I'm going to resume reading these pages.
Edit: Ok for the people that don't me I will let you know where I stand so far in the Smash Community.
I just rescently went to Pound 2 and got 7th place out of 200 people. I'd rather not go into detail of who I beat because it would make me sound egotistical. When vids come out I'll show you them of me vs Drephen and me vs Tink.
Heres a link to show that young link could be good only if you use him right.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eB7EhzbmbN4
D20
Smash Lord
High fives for DaShizWiz coming through in the clutch!
I'm kinda dissappointed I didn't get to play your Falco though, haha.
I'm kinda dissappointed I didn't get to play your Falco though, haha.
Jiraiya_Inc
Smash Apprentice
that was an awsome match he knew what he was doing all the way
he knew what he was doing all the wayTimat the Slayer
Smash Journeyman
This is completely off topic, but, D20, I get your name and signature..but why do you have a bit of the middle earth map in it? Wouldn't it be better to have like... Forgotten Realms or something? Just my oppinion.. it's still cool though.
No, on topic. Is everyone in overall agree that falco has a slight edge in the match, but it is still overall even? I don't think this match up should have a 6 page discussion (and from what I see, a second, 2 page discussion).
All in all though, how many people Play Y.Link vs. Falco in a high tier tournament? Yeah, some people can, like Rob, but still.. Against falco there could be plenty of better options, and many of which can't be countered as easily as y.link, when you come across someone who can play multiple characters.
Yeah..just wanted to throw that stuff out there.
No, on topic. Is everyone in overall agree that falco has a slight edge in the match, but it is still overall even? I don't think this match up should have a 6 page discussion (and from what I see, a second, 2 page discussion).
All in all though, how many people Play Y.Link vs. Falco in a high tier tournament? Yeah, some people can, like Rob, but still.. Against falco there could be plenty of better options, and many of which can't be countered as easily as y.link, when you come across someone who can play multiple characters.
Yeah..just wanted to throw that stuff out there.
pockyD
Smash Legend
he's in the "mordor cut crew"
Timat the Slayer
Smash Journeyman
Ah, that makes much more sense then. Thanks for the info.
Jash
Smash Lord
Well, at least Young Link owns right guys?