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Social Young Link Discussion

Hack

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
337
Location
Uppsala, Sweden
well maybe
think u guys could help me out?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GALU8s5Cor0
Well, I thought of a few things:

1. You get stuck in your shield way too much. More retreating wd oos, sometimes towards him and catch him going up in the air again with uair, then try to catch him w/o his second jump. Sometimes even rolling is better than just standing in shield, just make sure you don't get too obvious with it.

2. Don't be pulling bombs while standing still, unless you're at a REALLY safe distance from Ganon. If you realize you won't be able to get out a bomb safely, opt to sneak by him/below him and get him in the air. He's completely defenceless against juggles, and I noticed that BizarroFlame often double jumps up high to avoid your projectiles, then falls down with spaced fairs/bairs. Otherwise, always pull bombs while in the air and moving.

3. Don't land in front of Ganon when you space moves on his shield: land behind him, or in front but at safe distance. Ylink should never get grabbed by Ganon.

4. When recovering against Ganon, you should almost never go high. You don't need to throw a bomb/rang at him to keep your path clear, it doesn't do any good most of the time anyways. Just make sure you get in fast enough, and don't be afraid to pull out an early up-b if you see that he might be aiming to intercept you off-stage; the up-b usually clears away any opponent expecting it to come out later.

5. For the actual on-stage game when he's not pressuring you, my number one tip vs Ganon is to always aim for the juggle. At one point or another, you WILL manage to bait out his second jump, and then it's basically a free kill. Just watch out for random stomps and you'll keep him in the air for as long as it takes.

tl;dr: Stay more agile, don't put full trust in your projectiles, don't get caught in your shield as much.

Personally, I think YL-Ganon is pretty much even, perhaps slightly in YL's favour. I can't really tell though, since I haven't had the chance to play a top level Ganon.
 

Beat!

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
3,214
Location
Uppsala, Sweden
Both of you are younger than I, why are you calling me a kid O_o

And I'm not as much skinny as I am short =(
 

Veetaak

Smash Lord
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
1,120
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Both of you are younger than I, why are you calling me a kid O_o

And I'm not as much skinny as I am short =(
It's not about age, it's about height. (Logic at it's finest :D)

I dunno how tall Crush is though.

He will probably tell me that in a weird american **** measurement.
 

AXE 09

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
3,825
Location
Avondale, AZ
The only vids that are up of my YL right now are me getting ***** lol! But I'll keep training with the lil' guy and try to get better :p

:phone:
 

BRLNK88

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
955
Location
Austin, Texas
All the YL mains need to try Toon Link in Project M, he's MUCH better.
They buffed up many of his issues, his dair in particular is now a priority packed death stick.
They also kept his bair from Brawl which overall combos better.
 

Hack

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
337
Location
Uppsala, Sweden
Hack, would you consider Armada's YL better than yours, at any match-up?
I think so, mainly because he's a much better player overall. I think I'm developing a better understanding of Ylinks mid/low tier matchups though (since Armada mainly uses his Ylink against Puff). I also have some good experience vs Marth and Sheik.
This might be a bit far out, but I believe Ylink has the advantage over, or at least an even matchup with, all the floaties and fatties (Puff, Luigi, Samus, Ganon, DK, Link etc.) - the only exception being Peach, but that matchup's still alright. Marth is hard, but not impossible.

Discuss.

SIDE NOTE: Could anyone who has a lot of free time (and AR) PLEASE investigate as to which characters can be inescapably dthrown/uthrown to dair, and at what percentages that would work? Against Marth, I feel that uthrow-dair can connect at killing percentage (around 80-90 before uthrow) regardless of DI, whereas I'm not quite sure vs Sheik.
 

Hack

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
337
Location
Uppsala, Sweden
PAL or NTSC-U?

:phone:

EDIT: Hack, is YL vs Sheik more in YL's favor in PAL due to not having the NTSC-U chaingrab?

http://www.twitch.tv/standardtoaster/b/307987648 please critique. the recording is using Cactuar's ruleset, btw.
I would obviously benefit more from a PAL-testing personally, however the general public would be better off knowing about the possibilities in NTSC-U.
Concerning YL vs Sheik: Definitely. With that being said, it's probably his 4th worst matchup though (with Fox, Falco and CF being worse).
Concerning your gameplay: Hmm, it's kind of hard to give advice. You're using an experimental ruleset, for one, and your opponent (and yourself to some extent) don't really play a metagame style, so it's hard to discern what bad habits you would show against a metagame player. But alright, I'll give it a shot:

1. You need to start moving around more. Projectiles and distance control are YL's main weapons. Make the opponent come to you, not the other way around.

2. You tend to get overly agressive, moving up close when you don't have to, and sometimes even pulling bombs/trying to fall down with nairs instead of safely retreating. When not in hitstun and in a bad position/up-close in a situation you do not want, move away at full speed - seek out a platform, jump away with a bomb pull etc. There are loads of ways.

3. You may have done this purely on mistake, but NEVER uthrow ANY character at low %. It's completely fruitless and even lets them benefit from your lag sometimes. If you get a low % grab on any character basically (except Fox, Falco and CF), opt for dthrow > utilt (> utilt) > uair and aim to start a juggle. Dthrow > dthrow tech chase might be an option, at least on small stages (it's not fool proof and requires some reads, but is better than nothing).

4. You need a little work on your overall spacing game/tech skill. For things to practice:
- Slipoff dairs/uairs on platform ledges.
- Moving around on platforms with wavelands, shield drops > nair/bomb throw etc.
- Juggling (get your opponent in the air, make him lose his second jump with a bait and keep him in the air with uair). Think about Ylinks possibilities for juggling, such as intentional uair shield pokes when the opponent is on platforms above you, dropping through platforms with uair, slipoff uair > uair etc.

This is just from a quick glance though.
 

MonkUnit

Project M Back Roomer
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
6,075
Location
Eau Claire, Wisconsin
Thanks I'll try to work on those things. I really do need to try and not be as aggressive haha. It isn't always a bad thing to be aggressive, but given the tools that YL has, it isn't the safest option. I'll definitely practice slipoff aerials, wavelands, and juggling. I think the uthrow was a mistake.

After the tournament I am going to this weekend, I'll switch back to the normal ruleset.

I'll see if I can get standardtoaster or someone else to get that data for uthrow/dthrow dair. Is the u/dthrow dair thing something that has to be done in AR? From the looks of it, someone could probably just do it in game and test % without AR.
 

Hack

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
337
Location
Uppsala, Sweden
I'll see if I can get standardtoaster or someone else to get that data for uthrow/dthrow dair. Is the u/dthrow dair thing something that has to be done in AR? From the looks of it, someone could probably just do it in game and test % without AR.
It has probably been done and it could be tested without AR. Thing is, it takes a ****load of time, and I'm lazy. :troll:
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
try to always be ahead of the other ylink

like, have a bomb in your hand, but try to prevent the other YL from having a bomb by pressuring him if you can

i feel like most YL players know how to be defensive and run away and throw projectiles, but knowing what to do in the scar y situation of being close to the opponent will win the ditto.
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
7,336
I love Cactuar's ruleset.

But that's only because Mushroom Kingdom II is the best stage ever conceived.

OMG ALSO HI BING!

I WONDER WHO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH THAT DITTO? :p
 

Bing

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Messages
4,885
Location
St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada
Defs not you dirt ;)


Im actually excited for our MM dittos
Gunna be ****. Maybe I should get workin on my YLink. Actually I kinda combo pretty boss... and am pretty good with Projectiles... but im bad otherwise.
 
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