Social Young Link Discussion

[Rosy]

In what situation is Fair better than Nair? I can't seem to find a reason to use it.

against fox, you should be spacing fairs and nairs and switching them up. You should also do fade away fairs and nairs>jab
by doing the jab you could potentially catch them off gaurd and put them in their sheild which is then a good point to add sheild pressure or try to poke them with a d smash.

fairs are particularily good when you expect a slow get up. If you learn to space your fair you can punish these get ups and will be able to cover more ground.

Besides that I dont think its a viable kill move to I would limit fair to those two options.

 

[MagicScrumpy]

Now that I have reliable Internet connection, I kind of want to make videos about neutral game and matchups. That would be pretty fun to do; the board as a whole seems to have a pretty good grasp on a lot of matchups, so it wouldn't be hard to put together a few nice accompanying videos.

 

[Phez_]

I wanted to share this awesome vid of Axes YL against Westballz in tournament. Enjoy

 

[MagicScrumpy]

Man, Axe is insane.

 

[The Merc]

I wanted to share this awesome vid of Axes YL against Westballz in tournament. Enjoy

I wish I was that good .

Though the wombo combo voice over would go great at the part where hi does, what, 5 Uairs to Dair. It just seems so, prefect XD.

 

[Hanbit]

Aw dam. That sucks . Wait, if people can hack Melee so that Young Link can do that, why do they just take it a step further and balance out the entire cast, making it more along the lines of PM?

The question you asked has been answered already, in the form of:

Melee SD remix

It's a melee 1.0 mod that basically doesn't touch the top tiers, but aims to balance the game by buffing everyone else. It's pretty interesting.

 

[SlimStealthy]

In what situation is Fair better than Nair? I can't seem to find a reason to use it.

Watch Armada vs Hungrybox's Fox if you wanna see how I personally think it should be used. Hes a master of spacing it, and he applies safe shield pressure with it. Its slow startup makes it kinda difficult, but you can get used to it. Randomly throwing them out will probably get you Dash dance grabbed by any decent fox/falcon/marth. Tl; dr, its a spacing tool IMO

 

[Benny Fogg]

Hey guys I need some help beating a sheik, any tips? Obviously I'm playing as Young Link

 

[Rosy]

Hey guys I need some help beating a sheik, any tips? Obviously I'm playing as Young Link

Pick a different character to counter the matchup. Imo it is Young Links absolute worst matchup.

she can chain grab till death percent and theres no way out of it.

 

[schmooblidon]

Found this the other night.

Both Links, when performing a NIL (No Impact Land), their shield will appear for 1 frame in the last position it was in. Similar to the Shine Mine glitch. Their shield does not appear until they stand still or crouch (shielding also resets it though), so you can move around a lot before triggering it. You can even trigger it in the same position repeatedly by buffer walking when you NIL, and so can do continuous Isai drops.

I really doubt this will be useful, and you even suffer the appropiate hitlag and knockback. But glitchs are cool and fun to do. Doing this with Y.Link on corneria's gun is pretty goofy, although pretty hard to set up.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

@ schmooblidon you should make a TAS video with a bunch of these tricks

 

[Phez_]

YL confirmed for S Tier

Hey guys I need some help beating a sheik, any tips? Obviously I'm playing as Young Link

@ Benny Fogg watch all the YL vs sheik vids that you can. (Like this one) and edgeguard by grabbing ledge, and then punishing her recovery onstage with dair, bomb --> dair or dsmash.
Go for nair strings and CC --> nair (or dsmash) her tilts and dash attacks when youre at low percents.
Dont be afraid to run away and get good stage positioning with projectiles and avoid getting grabbed.
If you somehow grab her try and keep her nearby with a d-throw or u-throw or maybe throw her offstage.
Mixup your aerial approaches with nair, fade-away fair, and apply shield pressure with triple aerials (e.g here and here Axe does triple aerials to apply pressure)
Also make sure to shield-drop to improve your overall punish game and movement
Sheik vs YL is really difficult and requires a lot of experience

Good luck

 

[Jimmology]

Hey guys I need some help beating a sheik, any tips? Obviously I'm playing as Young Link

It's pretty safe on the top platform but you can't get grabbed so make sure that you are you can speedily jump between platforms while keeping a good distance. Throw lot's of boomerangs and bombs and be very careful to not get grabbed. Yoshi's and Dreamland are pretty good because you can thrown and drop bombs into the hole between the top and middle platform. Also edge guarding is kind of hard I would just avoid it and focus on getting a bomb dair.

 

[The Merc]

Whoa, activity! I really need to visit this thread more.

The question you asked has been answered already, in the form of:

Melee SD remix

It's a melee 1.0 mod that basically doesn't touch the top tiers, but aims to balance the game by buffing everyone else. It's pretty interesting.

No, I was asking why don't they introduce it into the Melee scene so that the characters are more balanced and it's not just Fox vs Fox the whole time.

YL confirmed for S Tier

Well, we knew that already .

 

[Diabolical PIe]

Am I the only one that thinks short hop bomb throw fastfall waveland is sexy as hell?? I've been integrating it into my game more and more and it's so clean and snappy and URK.

I love this character.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

I don't get why sd remix didn't decide to nerf fox, marth, and falco

 

[Diabolical PIe]

Also, sorry for the double post, but a quick question I guess. I think that one of the most awesome things about Young Link is his ability to Jump Cancel Bomb Throw down into Crouch Cancel punish. Unlike other characters crouch canceling, it allows YL to CC without fear of grabs, take less percent than normal while crouch canceling, and interrupt attacks that he wouldn't have been able to otherwise for a free punish. Plus, he can do this consistently to around 130%, which is amazing!!

It's something I want to work more into my game and something I think could be a very definitive strength YL has over other characters, but the thing is, I've never played a CC heavy style and I'm not sure exactly what attacks I should be aiming to CC. Basic Fox Nairs are a given, I guess? I feel like there are some moves, like Marth's Fair, that it would make more sense just to CC normally than throw a bomb, and other attacks, like Nairs, feel like they'd be better punished with just a normal bomb throw into aerial. Basically, I have no idea what moves I should be aiming to CC/bomb cancel. Tips?

 

[Rosy]

Also, sorry for the double post, but a quick question I guess. I think that one of the most awesome things about Young Link is his ability to Jump Cancel Bomb Throw down into Crouch Cancel punish. Unlike other characters crouch canceling, it allows YL to CC without fear of grabs, take less percent than normal while crouch canceling, and interrupt attacks that he wouldn't have been able to otherwise for a free punish. Plus, he can do this consistently to around 130%, which is amazing!!

It's something I want to work more into my game and something I think could be a very definitive strength YL has over other characters, but the thing is, I've never played a CC heavy style and I'm not sure exactly what attacks I should be aiming to CC. Basic Fox Nairs are a given, I guess? I feel like there are some moves, like Marth's Fair, that it would make more sense just to CC normally than throw a bomb, and other attacks, like Nairs, feel like they'd be better punished with just a normal bomb throw into aerial. Basically, I have no idea what moves I should be aiming to CC/bomb cancel. Tips?

I would say against spacies CC is not good because if you CC a nair they can shine and the knock back with move you away. If they end up in back of you because you CC'd they could u tilt you till you sheild or pop up. If they land in front of you then may be youd be able to punish with d smash. But thats about it.

 

[Phez_]

How exactly is it possible to SH bair and then double jump considering YLs Bair is 40 frames long and his SH is 32 frames long??

 

[SlimStealthy]

How exactly is it possible to SH bair and then double jump considering YLs Bair is 40 frames long and his SH is 32 frames long??

IASA frames?

 

[Phez_]

Oh.

 

[Diabolical PIe]

So guys, I know Young Link has guaranteed follow-ups after his down throw at certain percents on specific characters, but I don't know what characters I can down throw into down air without them being able to act out of it. Specifically, the floaties and mid-weights. Is down throw down air always guaranteed on floaties? How do you suggest I test throw followups in general without 20XX? Thanks! - I AM LUNK

 

[Phez_]

I'm pretty sure d-throw --> dair is guaranteed on puff, ICs and peach above 100%. On Marth you can d-throw --> Bair --> regrab at low %'s.

Regarding follow-ups without 20XX, just practice movement against a lvl 1 cpu and try to capitalise on tiny touches and try to cover as many tech options as possible after grabbing them. (they don't tech so no point in practicing tech chases) so for example;
Go on a legal stage as YL against a low level Marth. Waveland around, do some sexy bomb/grapple tricks and then hit the cpu with an aerial. Practice reacting to its knockback, and try to string aerials together on reaction. After doing this with aerials, try connecting projectile --> aerials and so on. This is my practice method (I don't have 20XX)

Just experiment and find what works for you. (good practicing/training without 20XX is really difficult)


Also, has anyone thought about using the grapple as an aggressive or defensive move in neutral rather than just a recovery move? If you can edge cancel it, I think it seems pretty viable.

 

[Rosy]

I'm pretty sure d-throw --> dair is guaranteed on puff, ICs and peach above 100%. On Marth you can d-throw --> Bair --> regrab at low %'s.




Also, has anyone thought about using the grapple as an aggressive or defensive move in neutral rather than just a recovery move? If you can edge cancel it, I think it seems pretty viable.

I would never use the grapple in neutral becuase of its lag and there are so few situations that it will actually turn in your favor that you should stick to something else.

But, I would say that you can turn Young Links grapple recovery into an offensive recovery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWUarsV0Mk4
at 13:34 and at 15:09 (this is not offensive but he could have been)
The whole point is if you save your double jump and mash out of your tumble animation, you can air dodge, grapple, wall jump, then use your double jump to throw out an aerial, covering yourself to get back on stage and put your opponent in defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY8hb93QMdE
I also made a video and at 1:59, I talk about how if you want to switch up your recovery onto stage you can fade away zair then wall jump double jump aerial.
This can also be used as a flashy edgeguard

TL;DR Young Links zair is amazing off stage, not very good on stage.

 

[Rosy]

I want to further discuss Young Links triple aeriel because it seems as if there are very few players who actually use it in competition.

To begin, I have recently realized that you can dash forward then immediately transfer YLs momentum the opposite way if you triple aeriel correctly. This can immediately put your opponent in sheild or force them to run away allowing you to have more space for other projectiles.

Furthermore, I have begun to use triple aeriel oos. This only takes 11 frames, which is only 2 more frames then a nair oos. I have a feeling that is could be a great way of attacking your opponent when they are behind you.

These are just two new uses I have found out about his triple aeriel and as I practice it more and more, it has become easier and easier to pull off. Has anybody else put more thought into YLs triple aeriel?

 

[The Merc]

Hey guys, quick question. Which move has more knockback?

Young Link's first hit Fair

or

young Link's Nair?

I want to further discuss Young Links triple aeriel because it seems as if there are very few players who actually use it in competition.

To begin, I have recently realized that you can dash forward then immediately transfer YLs momentum the opposite way if you triple aeriel correctly. This can immediately put your opponent in sheild or force them to run away allowing you to have more space for other projectiles.

Furthermore, I have begun to use triple aeriel oos. This only takes 11 frames, which is only 2 more frames then a nair oos. I have a feeling that is could be a great way of attacking your opponent when they are behind you.

These are just two new uses I have found out about his triple aeriel and as I practice it more and more, it has become easier and easier to pull off. Has anybody else put more thought into YLs triple aeriel?

Wait, what's this? I have never heard of this before. Can you explain?

 

[Rosy]

Hey guys, quick question. Which move has more knockback?

Young Link's first hit Fair

or

young Link's Nair?

Almost positive that YLs fair has higher knockback.

Wait, what's this? I have never heard of this before. Can you explain?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-zI5EIpAn4

It is all explained at 5:43 of my video

 

[The Merc]

Almost positive that YLs fair has higher knockback.

So then why do a lot of Young Link players use Nair more as a kill move rather than his Fair?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-zI5EIpAn4

It is all explained at 5:43 of my video

Cool! Thanks Rosy .

 

[Ficachu]

Hey guys, I need some help. I've mained YL for a while now, and I'm trying to work on my combo game. I mained adult link for years, so I still have a campy style. How can I improve my combos if all I have to play against is CPUs?

 

[Rosy]

So then why do a lot of Young Link players use Nair more as a kill move rather than his Fair?

Fair has a slow start up when compared to nair. Fair is more for punishing get up attacks and spacing. If a YL gets the fair at high percents, more power to them, but nair is YLs best attack in the neutral so thats why you see more nairs than fairs.

 

[The Merc]

Fair has a slow start up when compared to nair. Fair is more for punishing get up attacks and spacing. If a YL gets the fair at high percents, more power to them, but nair is YLs best attack in the neutral so thats why you see more nairs than fairs.

I guess. Still, it could be a good edge guard move, particularly seeing as it is a disjointed hitbox move

 

[Rosy]

I guess. Still, it could be a good edge guard move, particularly seeing as it is a disjointed hitbox move

I have tried out fair as an edge gaurd. I would say use bombs for set ups. Nair from the ledge or nair stall. Space fitilts. and down smashes. Those are the most effective. At least for me.

 

[Rosy]

Hey guys, I need some help. I've mained YL for a while now, and I'm trying to work on my combo game. I mained adult link for years, so I still have a campy style. How can I improve my combos if all I have to play against is CPUs?

practice bomb to aeriel attacks and mostly bomb to dair with floaties.

with fall fallers you can practice d throw tech chase. With floaties I can usually get d throw u tilt.

triple aeriel combos are good.

make sure to punish slow get ups with fairs.

and practice u air strings.

^^^^ those are the guarenteed tricks that will almost always work.

 

[The Merc]

I have tried out fair as an edge gaurd. I would say use bombs for set ups. Nair from the ledge or nair stall. Space fitilts. and down smashes. Those are the most effective. At least for me.

Okay Thanks for the advice Rosy . I will keep these in mind.

 

[Ficachu]

practice bomb to aeriel attacks and mostly bomb to dair with floaties.

with fall fallers you can practice d throw tech chase. With floaties I can usually get d throw u tilt.

triple aeriel combos are good.

make sure to punish slow get ups with fairs.

and practice u air strings.

^^^^ those are the guarenteed tricks that will almost always work.

Thanks Rosy. Also, whats a good strategy for YL to use against Falco mains? Also luigi? I have a hard time against luigi mostly because of his nair, i can't down throw u ptilt him.

 

[Rosy]

Thanks Rosy. Also, whats a good strategy for YL to use against Falco mains? Also luigi? I have a hard time against luigi mostly because of his nair, i can't down throw u ptilt him.

I have never used my Young Link against a Luigi, but I feel that the neutral is mostly you throwing tons of projectiles. Becuase Luigi is so floaty and has weird traction, it can be easy to force him in his sheild with bombs and bomb re grabs. If the luigi keeps nairing right away, once you d throw, sheild, them up b oos. Edge gaurds should be mostly down smashes becuase it covers sweet spots.

against falco you need to out play them in the neutral and punish game. It really depends on the falco. I laser heavy falco will have to be out camped. If it is an agressive falco, you need to space with fairs and get them on top of you so you can get them in u air strings. You can tech chase as a mix up and learn to edge guard spacies. I have a small video about it on youtube.

 

[The Merc]

I really wish wish Young Link (and to and extent Link) had at least one fast projectile. Like his Boomerang came out faster or something. That would help him some much. And a higher second jump.

 

[party]

if short hop arrows were lagless YL would be that much funner, i already love his movement potential but obviously lagless projectiles would put it through the roof.

also for that VS falco question as rosy said i find (with my limited experience so far playing YL) it's really about the neutral because depending on your opponents skill YL's combo game on them is very potent so wavedashing+shield into first laser into full hop fastfall cross up nair is good for staying on top of the bird which is always his weakness. if you gain advantage when they're just trying to laser/establish stage they'll get scared.

or defensively wavedash back shield laser then full hop to top platform while bomb pull etc is a crucial mixup i feel or just correctly using platforms against falco in general is massive

 

[Jimmology]

Does anyone have any information on Young Link vs. DK? Assuming the Donkey Kong is good are there any stages I should ban against him. Also I know DK can do grab shenanigans on fast fallers but how dangerous is getting grabbed by DK when playing Young Link?

 

[Rosy]

Does anyone have any information on Young Link vs. DK? Assuming the Donkey Kong is good are there any stages I should ban against him. Also I know DK can do grab shenanigans on fast fallers but how dangerous is getting grabbed by DK when playing Young Link?

I have been playing DK recently to disrespect people who play fast fallers and I would say that YL out camps DK (he can bair camp nd it can be hard to get in). I would work on making sure he is facing you and then spacing with fairs to jabs and get him in a tech chase grab. His spot doge is one of the worst in the game and is really easy to punish. Also, even though DKs sheild is big, it is really weak, so bomb re-grabs off seild will make it easier to sheild poke with d smash. There are only two ways for dk to recover, super low, or really high, so if you have a feeling that DK will go low you can grab the ledge or you can wait for him to land on stage and bomb dair punish. The hard part it he over powers YL just like ganon so you will need to have a stronger punish game in general.

As far as stages go, I have no idea what to say. I would think to avoid small stages like yoshis and battlefield unless you know how to recover well (btw I am making a video on how to recover like axe stay posted).
FD can be difficult because of no platforms for young link.
So I would say dreamland or pokemon.