Q&A You Found the Hint Glasses! - Q&A and FAQ

[Nat Perry]

Yeah, how do I deal with you guys? It usually goes boomerang, bow, maybe another bow, and bow, until I maybe get close, then bomb, throw it at me or up, and if I get a little close, grab, and if I get close enough up Smash.

I try to shield the boomerang, then spot-dodge the arrows or hop over them and try to punish but I get too close and the Link rolls or he up smashes.

I charge up Thunder while you're charging your arrows, try Arcfire when I successfully approach, do Elwind when I get launched up, but I'm just too slow most of the time.

It's infuriating, no fun, but dammit I wanna learn to deal with it.

 

[sasook]

Shield. Repeat.

 

[Nat Perry]

Shield is good, but I wanna deal damage and KO...

 

[smokebomb12]

Ask robins. I am friends with them.

 

[Nat Perry]

Ok, will do

 

[Rizen]

@ N Nat Perry as mentioned shield beats all Link's projectiles. Lean to power shield and approach Link. Link has slow frame data and a weak close quarter combat game so most characters have the advantage once inside Link's figurative 'bubble'. Link also has a blind spot above him at a 45 degree angle that can be exploited.

 

[Nat Perry]

Blind spot. So none of his attacks can cover diagonally above him? Not even up, side tilts, smashes, etc.

 

[Rizen]

Blind spot. So none of his attacks can cover diagonally above him? Not even up, side tilts, smashes, etc.

Link's Ftilt can cover that area but it starts frame 14 (slow). SHing in front of Link dodges his grab/jab/Fsmash/upB just be careful not to SH aerial into Link's shield or pivot Ftilt. You can also bait a reaction>double jump and punish it or jump away to reset.

 

[Chis]

How do you perform this bomb trick shown at 2:00 in this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f5DilNKw38

Also does anyone have any tips on implementing arrows and boomerangs into Link neutral game without getting too gimmicky?

I didn't get an answer so I decided to quote this. Help would be appreciated as I never was too good at utilising Link's projectiles.

 

[Dumbfire]

I didn't get an answer so I decided to quote this. Help would be appreciated as I never was too good at utilising Link's projectiles.

Full hop, pull a bomb, then press Z towards the end (if you do it too early you'll just throw the bomb forward). Then full hop Bair, you'll catch the bomb, then press Z at the end of Bair, and double jump bair to recatch it. The most important thing there is the full hop bomb pull to Z drop: you'll break up dash grabs as seen here and also here from an empty short hop.

 

[A17]

Is Link too heavy to escape being caught in Ness's PK Fire and ZSS's Up-B? I'm unsure if what I'm doing to DI is actually DI.

 

[FSK]

Is Link too heavy to escape being caught in Ness's PK Fire and ZSS's Up-B? I'm unsure if what I'm doing to DI is actually DI.

Link can escape PK fire by DI away from Ness and holding shield, then back roll once shield comes out. He can also SDI(with the control stick) upwards and jump out of PK fire.

If ZSS does her up-b correctly then you can't get out of it. I haven't labbed this move specifically, but I can look further into it to see what to do if ZSS does not do the up-b correctly.

 

[Natmax]

Hey Guys,
If people don't know I'll just lab this next week when I have my setup back, but does anyone know approximately to what percent nair lock works? Obviously it's going to differ by character but I imagine there's an approximate region where it stops working?

 

[FSK]

Hey Guys,
If people don't know I'll just lab this next week when I have my setup back, but does anyone know approximately to what percent nair lock works? Obviously it's going to differ by character but I imagine there's an approximate region where it stops working?

Opponents needs to be below 42% for the nair to lock. I haven't observed differences between characters. Rage might affect this.

I looked a bit more into it and my original statement was hugely inaccurate and wrong. It is character dependent or maybe more correctly weight dependent. This can be checked by trying two different character with same weight for instance Samus and Bowser Jr. (both weight 108) both have a max percentage of 44%. Characters like Link, Falcon and Yoshi (weights 104) are locked at max 43%. Using this info we can derive an equation where we can insert the weight of the character and get a max lock percentage for the nair. The equation is that of a straight line (linear interpolation):

MAX_LOCK_PERCENTAGE = 0.26087*CHARACTER_WEIGHT+15.8261

Rage will probably still affect this equation, I haven't tested it out.

MAX_LOCK_PERCENTAGE is the max percentage the opponent can be for the nair to lock them. If they are above this they will stand up when hit and not be locked. If you get a decimal value for instace 41.83% then you can read that as 41%.

Keep in mind that this is not going to be 100% correct it can differ with a percent or two on some characters. But it is a pretty good approximation.

Here are all the character weights:

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Weight

 

[Iceweasel]

What is this nair lock?

 

[FSK]

Hey Guys,
If people don't know I'll just lab this next week when I have my setup back, but does anyone know approximately to what percent nair lock works? Obviously it's going to differ by character but I imagine there's an approximate region where it stops working?

I updated my answer see above.

What is this nair lock?

If an opponent is in tumble animation and hits the ground without teching. The opponent will wobble on the ground before they can do anything (roll, get-up, get-up attack) If you then hit the opponent on the ground with a low knockback move (for instance the weak hit of Link's nair) during the wobble animation. The opponent will experience what is called a forced get-up. They cannot roll or attack or wait on the ground. The opponent will automatically stand up. Here is an example:

I lock the Mario with nair and they are forced to get-up giving me a free hit.

 

[Iceweasel]

Oh, it's just a jab reset using sourspot nair. When you said nair lock, I was thinking of some sort of footstool shenanigans to combo nair into itself repeatedly.

 

[Natmax]

Hmm given that it probably has to do with knock-back, weight, and rage, I wonder if it also will change with how stale the move is. Potentially a positive side of staling nair.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

@ Iceweasel : Looks like someone hasn't read the AT thread yet. tsk tsk.
Also stop calling Locks that have nothing to do with Jab 'Jab resets' or 'Jab locks'. That's outdated terminology that doesn't make sense anymore. I see no Jabs here.
And fyi, if you'd read the AT thread you'd know that there is 'some sort of footstool shenanigans to combo Nair into itself repeatedly'.

@ Natmax : Yes staleness would also affect it. That's part of the reason why there aren't any definite answers for all characters. Too many factors. Though FSK's answer is the most accurate thus far.

 

[Rizen]

At higher %s when Nair doesn't work Link can footstool>FF and shoot an arrow to force a stand up.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

At higher %s when Nair doesn't work Link can footstool>FF and shoot an arrow to force a stand up.

It's not quick enough. Arrow stops the FF and you can't FF during the arrow unlike Nair. The timing is already extremely precise to get the Nair to FF to work. If it's not done quickly enough the opponent can escape, and even if they press nothing, while you will get the wobble effect, it won't lock. In order for the arrow to lock out of a footstool you'd need to get a double footstool to half the height of the footstool jump (e.g. footstool to bomb down throw to FF to second footstool to arrow).

 

[Rizen]

It's not quick enough. Arrow stops the FF and you can't FF during the arrow unlike Nair. The timing is already extremely precise to get the Nair to FF to work. If it's not done quickly enough the opponent can escape, and even if they press nothing, while you will get the wobble effect, it won't lock. In order for the arrow to lock out of a footstool you'd need to get a double footstool to half the height of the footstool jump (e.g. footstool to bomb down throw to FF to second footstool to arrow).

Okay, good to know. I thought I saw someone do that but maybe it only works with quickfire arrows.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Okay, good to know. I thought I saw someone do that but maybe it only works with quickfire arrows.

Even that isn't quick enough. While the quickfire arrows do let you FF for longer, you're still having to get more alongside the opponent in order to hit them as opposed to hitting them beneath you with Nair and being able to FF the entire way. It's so precise that every little bit of time saved counts.

 

[Natmax]

footstool to bomb down throw to FF to second footstool to arrow

This isn't a true combo if you're not holding a bomb when you footstool right? Too much lag on bomb pull?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

.
This isn't true is it? That'd be awesome

Even given the right character, it'd be close. I can barely make it work on Wario if I get lucky with the timing.
Quickfire arrows would be a different story.
Edit: But then that was against a Wario on low percent with no DI, and considering that you'd only be wanting to use Arrows to lock when Nair has stopped working, in reality there aren't going to be that many cases where going for the Arrow lock out of a footstool setup would be worth it imo, even with quickfire arrows.

 

[Natmax]

Even given the right character, it'd be close. I can barely make it work on Wario if I get lucky with the timing.
Quickfire arrows would be a different story.
Edit: But then that was against a Wario on low percent with no DI, and considering that you'd only be wanting to use Arrows to lock when Nair has stopped working, in reality there aren't going to be that many cases where going for the Arrow lock out of a footstool setup would be worth it imo, even with quickfire arrows.

I'm going to lab this once I have my setup, but I was thinking you could forced nair lock up to that percent and then perform this to get a final lock before side smashing or something. I'm guessing the lag time on the arrow is too much to pull another bomb and instant drop for another footstool?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I'm going to lab this once I have my setup, but I was thinking you could forced nair lock up to that percent and then perform this to get a final lock before side smashing or something. I'm guessing the lag time on the arrow is too much to pull another bomb and instant drop for another footstool?

In order to get this arrow lock to work you need the double footstool though, and from memory you can't get a guaranteed (grounded) footstool out of a lock. I believe that they simply have to e.g. hold shield (or just buffer anything at all) and it will automatically avoid being put in that grounded footstool stun. So what you're talking about, doing the Nair Lock then going for a double footstool Arrow Lock, or on the alternative trying to get an Arrow lock using the single footstool method, is simply not possible.
Even if it were possible, I doubt that the extra 5% damage from the bomb and 2% damage from the quickfire arrow would make the lag of the arrow worth it seeing as it would limit your punishing options. And this is all putting aside for the moment how difficult it is against a human opponent. I forgot to mention, the lag from the arrow is definitely going to be too much to do the pull bomb to dash forward to instant z-drop to footstool looping trick. And even if it wasn't, what then? You need the double footstool to get the arrow to hit in time, so the lock would end there anyway.

I'm not a fan of the double footstool arrow lock from a theoretical perspective or a practical perspective. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it will ever get used. Case in point, the far superior and actually legit consecutive Nair Locks. We've known about it for a while now but no-one's going to ever actually use it. And why would they? If someone actually lands a single Nair Lock in game you can be sure they'll opt to get a guaranteed easy (e.g.) F-smash punish over risking throwing it all away for another bomb + Nair which requires frame perfect inputs.

 

[Steelballray]

Hello greenies! I hope you all have a good day.

I wanted to inquire about Link and how good he is in the current meta. How would you guys rate him? How does his match ups go against them evil top tiers? Any general info you guys can give about him and how he fares in this game would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Iceweasel]

Hello greenies! I hope you all have a good day.

I wanted to inquire about Link and how good he is in the current meta. How would you guys rate him? How does his match ups go against them evil top tiers? Any general info you guys can give about him and how he fares in this game would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Link is about the middle of mid-tier. He's not bad, but he requires some skill to play properly, unlike Shiek or Ryu. He has trouble against speedy characters with good pressure game, since you can't use your arrow/bomb/boomerang to relieve some of the tension.

Link is very much a zoning character. When you shoot an arrow or throw a bomb, it's nice if it hits, but don't expect it to. The point of your projectiles should be to harass your opponent and make them do unsafe things, which is properly punished by one of your aerials, grabs, tilts, or smashes. For this reason, and his trouble with speedy characters, reflector users like Fox or Rosalina give Link a lot of trouble. They don't need to respect your ranged moves, so it doesn't eliminate nearly as many of their options.

Speaking of zoning, don't use zair. If your opponent is trying to be cute with their spacing, it's okay, but it deals 6% at most, has no followup options, and has a lot of landing lag.

 

[Steelballray]

Link is about the middle of mid-tier. He's not bad, but he requires some skill to play properly, unlike Shiek or Ryu. He has trouble against speedy characters with good pressure game, since you can't use your arrow/bomb/boomerang to relieve some of the tension.

Link is very much a zoning character. When you shoot an arrow or throw a bomb, it's nice if it hits, but don't expect it to. The point of your projectiles should be to harass your opponent and make them do unsafe things, which is properly punished by one of your aerials, grabs, tilts, or smashes. For this reason, and his trouble with speedy characters, reflector users like Fox or Rosalina give Link a lot of trouble. They don't need to respect your ranged moves, so it doesn't eliminate nearly as many of their options.

Speaking of zoning, don't use zair. If your opponent is trying to be cute with their spacing, it's okay, but it deals 6% at most, has no followup options, and has a lot of landing lag.

I wasn't asking so I can play him, but thanks you very much for the advice and the useful input. <3

 

[Natmax]

Hey guys,
tournament question: what stages do you like to counter-pick to? I would counter-pick to FD usually but the other player always bans it. The bans are often Duck Hunt+FD where I am, so where else would you consider strong for Link?

 

[link7]

Hey guys,
tournament question: what stages do you like to counter-pick to? I would counter-pick to FD usually but the other player always bans it. The bans are often Duck Hunt+FD where I am, so where else would you consider strong for Link?

Smashville.

 

[Rizen]

My favorite CP is Delfino for characters Link runs from and BF for characters who try to time Link out.

 

[Iceweasel]

Hey guys,
tournament question: what stages do you like to counter-pick to? I would counter-pick to FD usually but the other player always bans it. The bans are often Duck Hunt+FD where I am, so where else would you consider strong for Link?

Lylat is amazing. The stage tilts mess with your grab, tether, and projectiles, but the platform height is absolutely perfect for aerials and juggling.

Duck Hunt is good, but if it's usually banned you obviously can't play on it. FD is decent too, but it's best if you pick an FD that's like FD instead of having walls like Omega Onett or no underside like Omega Smashville. Walled and empty FDs don't affect your recovery much, but harms your ability to stage spike.

Battlefield is not too good, but Miiverse is great. Battlefield's platforms are at a good height, but its ledges really suck in Smash 4, and Link's small snap range doesn't help.

Delfino can be good for cheesing with Link's high-strength smashes, but the lack of solid platforms can cause problems for his recovery and will remove your ability to stage spike.

Halberd is great for some of the same reasons, but also suffers from many of the same flaws. As long as you don't get caught under the battleship's edges, it's a pretty good stage. The cramped initial stage makes it harder for opponents to outmaneuver our little green freight train and the hazards limit their options on the battleship transformation. The low ceiling supplements our amazing usmash. Be careful who you take to Halberd - Someone who can outrange Link, like Dedede, will demolish you there.

Town and City is another good stage, but not a great one. Low ceiling supplements usmash. You benefit when the platforms are high (easier kills off the top), when the platforms are low (aerials), and gone (FEED IT SOMETHIN' SPICY, KNOW WHAT I MEAN?). That said, the platforms are usually in a position you don't want them in, and by the time you've gained enough ground to use the platforms to secure a heavy advantage or a kill they've changed position.


Really, Link doesn't have any "bad stages", except Castle Siege and arguably Battlefield. Some are more optimal than others, but Link has the tools to be successful on most stages.

 

[Lozjam]

Lylat is amazing. The stage tilts mess with your grab, tether, and projectiles, but the platform height is absolutely perfect for aerials and juggling.

Duck Hunt is good, but if it's usually banned you obviously can't play on it. FD is decent too, but it's best if you pick an FD that's like FD instead of having walls like Omega Onett or no underside like Omega Smashville. Walled and empty FDs don't affect your recovery much, but harms your ability to stage spike.

Battlefield is not too good, but Miiverse is great. Battlefield's platforms are at a good height, but its ledges really suck in Smash 4, and Link's small snap range doesn't help.

Delfino can be good for cheesing with Link's high-strength smashes, but the lack of solid platforms can cause problems for his recovery and will remove your ability to stage spike.

Halberd is great for some of the same reasons, but also suffers from many of the same flaws. As long as you don't get caught under the battleship's edges, it's a pretty good stage. The cramped initial stage makes it harder for opponents to outmaneuver our little green freight train and the hazards limit their options on the battleship transformation. The low ceiling supplements our amazing usmash. Be careful who you take to Halberd - Someone who can outrange Link, like Dedede, will demolish you there.

Town and City is another good stage, but not a great one. Low ceiling supplements usmash. You benefit when the platforms are high (easier kills off the top), when the platforms are low (aerials), and gone (FEED IT SOMETHIN' SPICY, KNOW WHAT I MEAN?). That said, the platforms are usually in a position you don't want them in, and by the time you've gained enough ground to use the platforms to secure a heavy advantage or a kill they've changed position.


Really, Link doesn't have any "bad stages", except Castle Siege and arguably Battlefield. Some are more optimal than others, but Link has the tools to be successful on most stages.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Link is "good" in most stages huh?
BAHAHAHA, that is the best load on nonsense since "Blast Processing"!

Lylat is a terrible stage for Link. Yes, the platforms good for "juggling", but it give Link very little room to space. Also, Link does not recover, almost at all due to Lylat's horrible ledges. This forces Link into CQC, and that is not good.

Battlefield is a great stage for Link. It's ledges are fine, just recover better.

Halberd forces Link many times to CQC, that is bad.

Link certainly isn't the invincible hero you think he is. That is for sure.

 

[Rizen]

Where to even begin?

Lylat is amazing. The stage tilts mess with your grab, tether, and projectiles, but the platform height is absolutely perfect for aerials and juggling.

Although Lylat does affect some characters more than Link it is still a bad stage for him. Grabs get cut off early, most of his attacks don't Dilt with sloped terrain and go harmlessly into the stage when facing uphill, and the platforms are not in a good layout.

Duck Hunt is good, but if it's usually banned you obviously can't play on it. FD is decent too, but it's best if you pick an FD that's like FD instead of having walls like Omega Onett or no underside like Omega Smashville. Walled and empty FDs don't affect your recovery much, but harms your ability to stage spike.

Link's poor mobility limits the usefulness of DH where characters with higher jumps can abuse it. The problem with FD is Link has a very good platform game and FD has no platforms. Rush down characters can easily approach and Link has no where to go. Both stages are okay for some MUs but not ideal.

Battlefield is not too good, but Miiverse is great. Battlefield's platforms are at a good height, but its ledges really suck in Smash 4, and Link's small snap range doesn't help.

Delfino can be good for cheesing with Link's high-strength smashes, but the lack of solid platforms can cause problems for his recovery and will remove your ability to stage spike.

BF is one of Link's best stages! This is widely agreed on. It has the same layout as Miiverse.

Delfino is also great for Link if he doesn't have to chase an opponent down. It's great for Zoning. This stage in no way hurts his recovery. Why would it hurt his recovery? No stage spiking is true but that applies to everyone.

Halberd is great for some of the same reasons, but also suffers from many of the same flaws. As long as you don't get caught under the battleship's edges, it's a pretty good stage. The cramped initial stage makes it harder for opponents to outmaneuver our little green freight train and the hazards limit their options on the battleship transformation. The low ceiling supplements our amazing usmash. Be careful who you take to Halberd - Someone who can outrange Link, like Dedede, will demolish you there.

The trouble with Halberd is opponents can kill Link much earlier than normal with Dthrow>Uair combos. It should be avoided vs characters who juggle well and kill off the ceiling from the air. Link's Usmash is okay but not amazing. Several characters benefit more from low ceilings than Link.

 

[Iceweasel]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Link is "good" in most stages huh?
BAHAHAHA, that is the best load on nonsense since "Blast Processing"!

Lylat is a terrible stage for Link. Yes, the platforms good for "juggling", but it give Link very little room to space. Also, Link does not recover, almost at all due to Lylat's horrible ledges. This forces Link into CQC, and that is not good.

Battlefield is a great stage for Link. It's ledges are fine, just recover better.

Halberd forces Link many times to CQC, that is bad.

Link certainly isn't the invincible hero you think he is. That is for sure.

Link can play well on most any stage. Or at least, if you know how to play around the stage. Except for Dreamland and Castle Siege, you can't really stage counterpick against Link. Link certainly isn't the trash-tier character you think he is. That is for sure.

Where to even begin?

Although Lylat does affect some characters more than Link it is still a bad stage for him. Grabs get cut off early, most of his attacks don't Dilt with sloped terrain and go harmlessly into the stage when facing uphill, and the platforms are not in a good layout.

Good thing there are platforms and aerial attacks you can use when certain moves are less effective. If you try to grab an opponent halfway across the stage you're doing it wrong and will be punished.

Link's poor mobility limits the usefulness of DH where characters with higher jumps can abuse it. The problem with FD is Link has a very good platform game and FD has no platforms. Rush down characters can easily approach and Link has no where to go. Both stages are okay for some MUs but not ideal.

FD isn't Link's best stage, but if you know your zoning he can be decent. Duck Hunt can be good if your opponent isn't fully aware of the tree and how it changes the stage, but besides the tree it's pretty much FD, except Link can fall down more safely.

BF is one of Link's best stages! This is widely agreed on. It has the same layout as Miiverse.

No duh. That's why I suggested Miiverse instead of Battlefield. Battlefield has a good platform layout, but the ledges and Link's tiny snap range makes it a risky choice. Link doesn't have many versatile offstage options. His best is bair but if you're knocked off the stage you're probably facing the stage.

Delfino is also great for Link if he doesn't have to chase an opponent down. It's great for Zoning. This stage in no way hurts his recovery. Why would it hurt his recovery? No stage spiking is true but that applies to everyone.

Three words: Pass through ledges. This makes Link much easier to edgeguard.

The trouble with Halberd is opponents can kill Link much earlier than normal with Dthrow>Uair combos. It should be avoided vs characters who juggle well and kill off the ceiling from the air. Link's Usmash is okay but not amazing. Several characters benefit more from low ceilings than Link.

Okay, fair enough analysis. Halberd's low cieling allows top kills by characters that ordinarily wouldn't get them. Though I must say that Link's usmash is a lot better than you give it credit for, especially in rage. It comes out quickly, covers a large amount of Link's body, and can produce the red lightning effect on low/mid weight characters in the 90% range when in rage.

 

[Dumbfire]

some profound insights I have totally changed my approach to stages 12/10

 

[Urameshi_]

do we have a skype group?

 

[Kaladin]

Hey all. I'm currently soul searching for a main, as well as continuing my quest to be able to use every character in the game to a competent level for matchup understanding, and have come to link.

So, when and why should I be using bomb planting? It seems like a super helpful pressure/psychological/covering things tool, but more often than not they just literally blow up in my face. Help?

Edit: also, what are the most important techniques to get down? I only have so much lab time and am not sure how to prioritize.