Yoshi Theater: video thread

[KenboCalrissian]

Bair is bad, and I mean really bad. Try to avoid using that move.
Whether it's using it as if it's brawl to make them afraid to get hit by it so they wait it out and punish us because of landing lag.
Or unfortunately hitting their shield with it, the move starts hitting so slow when it gets a hit confirm it takes like a second for each tail whip to finish, so they can actually grab inbetween the hits if they felt like it.
Most people are still afraid of the first two so of course wait it out since they have loads of time to make coffee come back for a short nap and then finally punish us.

The rest of your post I agree with, but I really think bair's badness ends on-stage against shield. Off-stage or high up, bair has some good kill potential on the last hit. I find it's most effective for punishing someone trying to recover high. Also, as you've alluded to it's a scary move and some opponents will opt to wait it out - but this is very risky for them to do off-stage. Not sure if this holds true in the upper echelons, but I've forced more than one suicide just by wagging my tail in their face and watching them unknowingly put too much space between themselves and the ledge.

(There's also a weird hitbox on the first tail hit that completely stops all momentum, and it might be exploitable. I have a replay on my hard drive where I tagged a recovering Shulk with the very bottom of swing 1 and missed 2 and 3, and the result was he came to a dead stop in mid-air and could not recover to ledge. Totally accidental, but I'd love to try and reproduce it. If I have time tonight, I'll put that series together and upload it so we can study it)

Otherwise, I agree that it's probably the worst option for attacking a shield.

 

[Sinister Slush]

No I don't mean solely shield, the landing lag for that move is atrocious. Even if you do hit someone, it's usually only the first 2 hits since you're most likely (for some reason) using it as an approach option over the more safer aerial for us now, fair, and then wanting to retreat as if it's brawl still.

If you're in the air offstage why're you using bair to kill somebody over Fair or even Uair? Any zoning you're doing offstage with bair you can use the other two moves in more succession in the span of a few seconds and even have a bigger hitbubble thrown out there.
I mean, I even get stage spikes with Dair more often than Bair.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Well, Fair has a slightly longer wind-up, and I often fear it becomes predictable over time and therefore can be easily punished. If they're in hitstun, then I would definitely use Fair or Uair, depending on position. If they're active, they're going to air dodge either and could punish mid-air. Bair takes longer to complete, so if they air dodge you might still snag them with the last hit. Alternatively, if the first hit misses and you fear a punish, you have an easy time escaping since they'd have to get through two more swipes while you're retreating.

Do you know if whether Bair or Fair has better priority? I feel like Bair does, but I haven't fully tested so I can't say this with confidence.

I won't disagree that it's situational or that Fair and Dair are better moves, but I struggle to accept that I should quit using the move entirely.

 

[Delta-cod]

Fair is a frame trap when air dodged, due to its low duration. You can't get punished on a reactionary air dodge against Fair.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Fair is a frame trap when air dodged, due to its low duration. You can't get punished on a reactionary air dodge against Fair.

Oh, cool! I didn't know that. So, you can Fair > Nair to cover yourself before they get a reaction? I'll try that out next time. Thanks!

 

[Delta-cod]

Oh, cool! I didn't know that. So, you can Fair > Nair to cover yourself before they get a reaction? I'll try that out next time. Thanks!

Yes, that should definitely work. Depending on how late they airdodge you can even get Fair > Uair. I've done it for the kill before, it's quite nasty.

 

[Chacrecon]

I've created a yoshi montage as over the past week yoshi has easily become my best and effective character, give it a watch lads!

 

[GroundZero996]

Bair is bad, and I mean really bad. Try to avoid using that move.
Whether it's using it as if it's brawl to make them afraid to get hit by it so they wait it out and punish us because of landing lag.
Or unfortunately hitting their shield with it, the move starts hitting so slow when it gets a hit confirm it takes like a second for each tail whip to finish, so they can actually grab inbetween the hits if they felt like it.
Most people are still afraid of the first two so of course wait it out since they have loads of time to make coffee come back for a short nap and then finally punish us.

I don't know that I agree with this. BAir is certainly situational, but the range on it allows for a ton of spacing, and the final hit kills. It also lasts so long that you can catch people rolling with it. It's Certainly not NAir or DAir, but it's not like it doesn't have it's situational uses IMO.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Did you read the rest of this page?
Any situational uses bair has can also be used better by fair/uair.

Why use Bair to catch rolls when you can use even a shorthop Dair to tack on more %. The only difference from both the shorthops is Dair having 5 more frames landing lag, which is honestly nothing when both the moves landing lag is past our old 17 frame shield drop in brawl.

 

[Funkermonster]

I don't really main Yoshi in this game (but I do main him in Melee) and I don't think I will ever use him in tournaments, but I figured I'd still use him as a pocket character and look for advice on how to improve my game anyway:

vs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFE-QB1tq2M&list=UU0RMA482bkRmw4pukDNhPgQ&index=6
vs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My1Z3IdJbws&list=UU0RMA482bkRmw4pukDNhPgQ&index=5
vs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JI6Mgfx4IE&list=UU0RMA482bkRmw4pukDNhPgQ&index=4

Thanks in advance.

Little help?

 

[Z-Bone]

Bair isn't bad, you just have to use it right. It's main use is against aerial characters, not characters on the ground. It has many of stage uses: I've gotten soft spikes and stage spikes with it, it throws out a lingering hitbox which allows you to fake out people and punish when they air dodge through you, and it keeps players returning to the stage at bay. It also works pretty well at meeting people in the air when they are using an aerial approach. It's good against large characters especially. It can also be used for easy stage spikes after egg lay or just when recovering low in general.

I feel like I need to start using it more, honestly.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

(There's also a weird hitbox on the first tail hit that completely stops all momentum, and it might be exploitable. I have a replay on my hard drive where I tagged a recovering Shulk with the very bottom of swing 1 and missed 2 and 3, and the result was he came to a dead stop in mid-air and could not recover to ledge. Totally accidental, but I'd love to try and reproduce it. If I have time tonight, I'll put that series together and upload it so we can study it)

Here's the replay - jump to 3:52 and watch what I do on the left. Because I only hit Shulk with the first swing of bair, his momentum completely stops and he enters a tumble. I'm not sure he should have died to this though - these opponents weren't great, and after watching it a few times I feel like if he'd have reacted better he wouldn't have been gimped so hard by that. Still, it's interesting that we have this option.

Don't bother critiquing this set. It's older than the Jigglypuff video I posted last, and my play clearly isn't as good in this video as it is now (On an amusing note, I see I was using bair into shield a lot, pretty much demonstrating a lot of the problems we've just discussed). I just wanted to show off that particular move because it might be worth discussion.

 

[Delta-cod]

Bair isn't bad, you just have to use it right. It's main use is against aerial characters, not characters on the ground. It has many of stage uses: I've gotten soft spikes and stage spikes with it, it throws out a lingering hitbox which allows you to fake out people and punish when they air dodge through you, and it keeps players returning to the stage at bay. It also works pretty well at meeting people in the air when they are using an aerial approach. It's good against large characters especially. It can also be used for easy stage spikes after egg lay or just when recovering low in general.

I feel like I need to start using it more, honestly.

While what you said could be true, Yoshi has other aerials that do those jobs better. Bair is majorly outclassed in this game.

@ KenboCalrissian I dunno about being able to recover necessarily. Those tumble animations last a long time, don't allow for horizontal movement, and may or may not be able to be cancelled into an aerial/special earlier (I lack enough experience with them to know this for sure). Considering he was missing his jump, he very well could have been out of options.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

While what you said could be true, Yoshi has other aerials that do those jobs better. Bair is majorly outclassed in this game.

@ KenboCalrissian I dunno about being able to recover necessarily. Those tumble animations last a long time, don't allow for horizontal movement, and may or may not be able to be cancelled into an aerial/special earlier (I lack enough experience with them to know this for sure). Considering he was missing his jump, he very well could have been out of options.

In that case, I'm going to have to practice doing that more often and see if I can't work it down to a science. It's obviously got to happen at a very specific angle, but it might only work on Shulk (without speed or jump) and other characters with poor horizontal recovery. I have no gauge on risk level pulling it off either since this was an accident. I should compare it to a footstool and see if it's any more effective, since the angle looks pretty similar (hey, at least it'd be safer than a footstool since it's an attack that could clank an opponent's response)

I'll carve it off to a new thread if I find any more details about it. I likely won't have time to make a showcase video for it until after next weekend. It would be pretty exciting if it had widespread application!

 

[Delta-cod]

In that case, I'm going to have to practice doing that more often and see if I can't work it down to a science. It's obviously got to happen at a very specific angle, but it might only work on Shulk (without speed or jump) and other characters with poor horizontal recovery. I have no gauge on risk level pulling it off either since this was an accident. I should compare it to a footstool and see if it's any more effective, since the angle looks pretty similar (hey, at least it'd be safer than a footstool since it's an attack that could clank an opponent's response)

I'll carve it off to a new thread if I find any more details about it. I likely won't have time to make a showcase video for it until after next weekend. It would be pretty exciting if it had widespread application!

It could be character specific, but it's certainly not Shulk specific. I've done it against Sheik before, and my gut tells me it's just dependent on getting the subsequent hitboxes out of the way quickly enough, so it's unlikely to be character specific at all.

It's probably more usable than a footstool, because you might be able to clip them with the top of the first hit to get the tumble effect as well, meaning we don't need to be directly on top of the opponent to use it. Definitely safer, that's for sure.

 

[Sinister Slush]

The Bair has a spike for the first two hits for some reason. Which is why apparently in that Frame cancel thread our Bair first hit can be canceled on the first hit and possibly used for a dair or anything afterwards.
Since people don't actually read informative threads they never find out the little things for their characters moves.

Little help?

Throw more eggs from short hops, stop standing and doin' nothing fer like 2-5 seconds, less airdodging to the ground, be more smart with moves cause you seem to randomly throwing them out hoping they'll hit.
First 10 or so seconds of that Marth match you both just kept throwing out moves and missing every single one, dunno if that was lag or what but it was silly to see.

 

[King_Peachee]

Are there any essential videos I should watch to take bring my Yoshi to the next level. Any specific players out there to keep an eye on?

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Streamed a bunch of matches in Smash 4 Worldwide over the weekend, as well as participated myself. I don't have many of my own since I got knocked out early, but one of the reasons is I faced -Champ- who made it through NA East 7 undefeated and placed 17th in the Top 32 Worldwide bracket.

That said, I'm really happy with this match of myself vs. -Champ- even though I lost!

(I also have a set featuring @Regralht I'll upload once I get it highlighted on Twitch - and by the way thanks for liking, I needed it so I could spell your username correctly!)

 

[Slice~]

vs. Shulk 1
vs. Shulk 2

Have fun, discuss.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

All the Smash 4 Worldwide I streamed are now highlighted!

Regralht Vs. Jerm - Game 1
Regralht Vs. Jerm - Game 2
Regralht Vs. Jerm - Show Match

I also have a screenshot of our stream chat where everyone was lending their power for the spirit bomb. I'll update this post with a link when I get it on Twitter tonight.

 

[Thunderfang747]

Ended up on Shofu's stream last night and switched my characters around, but mostly played Yoshi http://www.twitch.tv/shofu/b/614386676 I jump on at around 3 hours and 53 minutes and first pick Yoshi at 4 hours and 3 minutes.

 

[jeck95]

I want to improve my yoshi so if you can watch some of my matches and critique my yoshi, that would be great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5umVzf4apeI - vs Dolo(Diddy) 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0AIXkVVPo0 - vs SuarSuar(Sheik)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr9GSOKeMqI - vs Dolo(Diddy) 2
(P.S. This local had bans and both of these players banned FD during these sets. I also understand if the commentary was not good.)
These matches were recorded by Domo (a good friend of mine) but the audio is not properly synced. (The channel these videos are on also has a few videos of Ryo playing as well.)
Background:
This tourney was a weekly local in Gainesville in which Ryo attended. I ended up sending him to losers during this particular weekly and SuarSuar eliminated him from bracket. Dolo in a previous weekly 3-0d Ryo to take the local. (Ryo's matches this tourney were not recorded sadly)
I started playing competitive smash with brawl (maining yoshi) so some of my jab habits come from brawl.
I know that I have to work on my spacing, option selects, and patience; but I need to know what else I can improve on.
Thank you to all of you in advance.

 

[Delta-cod]

I want to improve my yoshi so if you can watch some of my matches and critique my yoshi, that would be great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5umVzf4apeI - vs Dolo(Diddy) 1

In the first game, you tried to Usmash Diddy as he was inside the egg from Egg Lay. This is pretty dangerous, especially since Diddy can Uair us for free as he's breaking out, which actually happened to you. Try doing something else to tack on percent. You just stale Usmash this way, and you're unsafe while doing it.

Game 2, you were ahead by a lot, but it looked like you were really greedy for the kill at the end. Luckily, your traps at the edge with eggs are good, so you got the kill before anything too bad happened.

Overall, I really like your aggression offstage towards Diddy. You got some pretty slick gimps, I was impressed.

You could definitely stand to use less Dash attack. You used it A LOT, and it's not really that great of a move anymore. It has its use, but it shouldn't realllllllly be a go-to move. You should also stop throwing out so many raw Fsmashes. It's not that safe, and you didn't connect with them that often. If you need an example of what I'm talking about, look at the first stock of game 5. You Fsmashed 3 or 4 times and hit none of them.

Also, stop landing with Down B. It's also not that great a landing tool. Maybe every once in a while, but you used it A LOT, and that's no good. You lost your first stock Game 5 because of it.

 

[Charu]

Hey folks, not a serious match by any means, but I love when I play and stuff like this happens.

Thought you guys might get a kick from this.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Well, this pikachu was pretty good. I couldn't beat him on Ganon, but that matchup is like 70:30. I don't use Yoshi very often on wifi because I don't like how he feels with lag for some reason.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Me winning a +3 MU for us :^)

Bowser Jr. later today will be uploaded maybe.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

What the hell happened to the Fox's first stock?

 

[Sinister Slush]

Video messed up so it disappeared.

 

[Yokoblue]

Me winning a +3 MU for us :^)

Bowser Jr. later today will be uploaded maybe.

Seriously I dont know why the fox players think its favorable for us. Its been 2 weeks now that I get crushed by a fox at my weekly... Seems that when do know how to perfect shield our nair they just overwhelm us... I would even go as far as saying its probably 60-40 for them.
Great games though

 

[rahsosprout]

I'm really struggling in the Yoshi matchup (as Falcon). I feel like even when I win, it was mostly through a lucky knee and I'm not actually in control of the game. I thought I'd post this here to see if I could get some tips as to what I need to do / stop doing.
I've posted this on the falcon boards as well, but it'd be nice to get some input from the opposing perspective

Here are a few games against @Regralht

Losses:

Spoiler

Getting completely destroyed (first game too, so great way to get my morale up);

Spoiler

Lucky wins:

Spoiler

 

[Slice~]

Seriously I dont know why the fox players think its favorable for us. Its been 2 weeks now that I get crushed by a fox at my weekly... Seems that when do know how to perfect shield our nair they just overwhelm us... I would even go as far as saying its probably 60-40 for them.
Great games though

No offense, but maybe that specific Fox player is just better than you?
I think Fox does actually have some troubles with Yoshi and the MU is in our favor.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I think it's pretty close to even. Maybe 55:45 in Yoshi's favor. But +3?

Hahahahahahaha

 

[Yokoblue]

No offense, but maybe that specific Fox player is just better than you?
I think Fox does actually have some troubles with Yoshi and the MU is in our favor.

Yes maybe but if you look at Slush video, its kinda what seem to happen to me. Seems good fox never get hit by eggs and they can easily perfect shield your nair and grab you (unless you retreating nair or rising nair).

Could you give advice on the MU ? If not here, maybe in PM ?

 

[Slice~]

I honestly can't say what to do specifically right now because I never really think while playing and my brain goes standby.
I just realized that many Fox players (the best Fox of Germany for example) stopped picking him against me, as they are afraid of the MU.

I'll eventually upload some games against Foxes to show how I do it.
But I need someone to actually pick him against me again. lol

edit: wow that sounds cocky.

 

[GSM_Dren]

Me winning a +3 MU for us :^)
Nice work vs Greninja, caught him all in the Yoshi Bombs. I was a bit surprised why the fox wasn't fishing for trades with Usmash to finish the game 2 earlier. Fox is MU I'm gonna need more practice with.

I think it's pretty close to even. Maybe 55:45 in Yoshi's favor. But +3?

Hahahahahahaha

Yeah I see this matchup to be about evenish. Last tournament I was knocked out by one and all 3 were close matches, unfortunately they weren't recorded. Fox is just as mobile as Yoshi and his D-throw into Fair/Uair strings give him access to a lot of damage potential. Reflector is still kinda meh, but does do its job against eggs, and that Fox can seemingly avoid them easy enough. I also had trouble punishing after an egg lay, usually I'd Usmash, but we've played enough so that he knows to mash and 3frame Nair/dodge immediately after popping out. 2frame Jabs also are problematic in close combat. With that said we're nowhere near +3, but closer to even on both sides.

---

Please critique: Here I have two vids of the same matchup vs Kirby, but with different players. Both kirbys used Upper Cutter custom, fast and safe anti-aerial and kill move. For some reason in this tournament there was a boom in Yoshis (5-6 all different color too!), but I never really got too much of a chance to talk with them and to give advice.

Y vs Click
I posted this vid in attempt to get more feedback on Y's playstyle. There's a lot to comment about it. I felt that he relied a bit too much on Dair and rolled quite often as well. I would've liked to see more Jabs in close combat, and Nairs to complement air mobility. He missed a lot of Fsmash at low percent, but did get off successful Jab->Fsmash a few times.

Dren vs Jurm
I posted this in the Kirby MU boards and I guess it showcases the strengths and weaknesses that each particular character has (with kirby getting the shorter end of the stick). Egg toss controls Kirbys movement heavily and his less than stellar ground and air movement does not bode well for this MU.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

7/10 mustache, decent shape but could use volume and length for maximum effect.

 

[Slice~]

WTF happened with Kirby's UpB in Game 2 at the beginning?!
WHAT?!

edit: nvm, you guys and your custom moves.

 

[BuRnT EGGs]

Hello fellow yoshis!! The other day me and 6WX (The Sonic) did some friendlies and i'd like to know if im playing the MU right, or what i can work on/do better. Heres a video of our match.

BuRnT EGGs (Yoshi) VS 6WX (Sonic): http://youtu.be/5iWR51BUwbk

Sonic is my most tricky MU, So tips would be appreciated as well. Thanks

 

[Sinister Slush]

Person in SA that's gunna duu vids fer us came back.
Here me being bad some more.

 

[Slice~]

First of all: nice one Slush, solid dino. You might take one of my stocks when we play. Sheeeit.

Anyways: remember, UpTilt comboes into UpSmash or UpAir, don't use BAir.
Second: when BJr approaches with the Clowncar, just shield it.
EVERY BJr will jump right after crashing the enemy.
Right after that, SH UpAir. Works 95% of the time.
You can even chain that with 3 or 4 more UpAirs.

Overall, guys: we can stay inside our shield for weeks! Abuse the enemy's inpatience and punish him.