Yoshi Social-20 years of Yoshi's Island!

[YoHeKing]

Hmm. I love this but I do not ever play like that unless I loose game 1. Because I play yoshi aggresive when I dont have to but I do it for fun.

Any platform strategys on town and city? I would imagen yes with ness and characters with slow speed. I would imagen customs making camping a ton better like his egg launch to get fast away.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Characters who can't keep up with us in the air and don't have good sharking pressure are very disadvantaged. Your goal is to bait them to get on the tree, take stage positioning by getting underneath them, and then never engage outside of advantage situations. We can also jump between the 2 sides easily making pseudo circle camp situation. When you have a strong lead you can play more runaway. I could make a list of potential characters if you'd like.

I both love and hate you for this.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Characters who can't keep up with us in the air and don't have good sharking pressure are very disadvantaged. Your goal is to bait them to get on the tree, take stage positioning by getting underneath them, and then never engage outside of advantage situations. We can also jump between the 2 sides easily making pseudo circle camp situation. When you have a strong lead you can play more runaway. I could make a list of potential characters if you'd like.

Please do. I'm really interested in this as a playstyle option going forward. I played passive agressive Yoshi in brawl, but I can't play passive agressive without a full grasp on what we can do defensively. All I know for a fact is that Characters with bad vertical acceleration get taken to BF and I stand on the top platform and laugh.

 

[YoHeKing]

Please do. I'm really interested in this as a playstyle option going forward. I played passive agressive Yoshi in brawl, but I can't play passive agressive without a full grasp on what we can do defensively. All I know for a fact is that Characters with bad vertical acceleration get taken to BF and I stand on the top platform and laugh.

Bf is my worst map.

Anyone know a good way to play there?

 

[YoHeKing]

Oops wrong post. Lmao sorry...

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Bf is my worst map.

Anyone know a good way to play there?

Learn how to throw eggs with platforms in the way.
Once you got that down it literally just becomes another stage.
Also be evasive. Make the most out of the platforms.

Edit:
who's natalie? lmfao

 

[YoHeKing]

[quote="CelestialMarauder~, post: 19727240, member: 157066"accidento throw eggs with platforms in the way.
Once you got that down it literally just becomes another stage.
Also be evasive. Make the most out of the platforms.

Edit:
who's natalie? lmfao[/quote]
I was joking around with her from another thread because I accidentally declined her lmao.

 

[Lukingordex]

Yoshi is pretty good in BF, he has a lot more gameplay variation and he's pretty good at punishing people above him in platforms.

I almost always strike/ban final destination in this game because I like people being above me and FD doesn't allow that to happen too often. Also Yoshi's camping game is a lot weaker now (no pivot grab) and egg throw is not really a very scary camping tool, so I see no reason to choose this stage unless you're playing against Pikachu (who likes platforms) or Ness (weak neutral game and one of the feel characters that are true easy to camp as Yoshi)

 

[Sinister Slush]

MU dependent but I feel like most of our bad ones BF is not a good option, I have more success when I choose FD (omega stuff) T&C Delfino or Kongo jungle/skyloft.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

BF could possibly utilize this strategy, but part of the power is having a good place to run away to and being hard for people to reach which isn't as big here. T&C can work better but changes making an all out camp match somewhat ineffective. Light Egg Roll allows you to travel the skies quickly and refreshes your DJ but not up B.

I'd like to point out I haven't tested this against all these characters so it's generally theorycraft take it with a grain of salt. Considered with custom option set to off

Characters who are not fast enough to chase us:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Donkey Kong
G&W (not sure if his up air can help him though)
Little Mac
Link
Zelda
Ganon
Toon Link
Samus
Pit
Marth
Ike
Robin
Duck Hunt
Kirby
DDD
Charizard
Lucario
Jigglypuff
R.O.B.
Ness
Falcon (not as sure about him)
Villager
Olimar
WiiFit
Dr. Mario
Dark Pit
Lucina
Pac-Man
Mega Man
Mewtwo
Lucas
Roy
Ryu
Mii Brawler (medium)
Mii Sword Fighter

Characters that are fast enough to possibly challenge us inbetween the tree and the bush:
Yoshi (fast on the ground, as fast as us in the air, rises quickly, up B)
Rosalina (up air reaches really high up)
Wario (bike and good air mobility)
Diddy Kong (Side B and Up B)
Sheik (fast on the ground and rises quickly)
ZSS (Flip Jump, fast ground speed, rises quickly)
Palutena (up smash, rises quickly)
Meta-Knight (fast on the ground, up B)
Fox (fast on ground, rises quickly)
Falco (rises quickly has projectile)
Pikachu (fast on the ground, Down B)
Greninja (fast on the ground, rises quickly)
Shulk (jump monado)
Sonic (fast on the ground, can rise quickly with Up B, Can move through the air quickly with Spin Shot)
Mii brawler small (Fast on the ground, faster than us in the air (wtf), rises quickly)
Mii Gunner (up air reaches really high up)

Characters who can apply significant pressure to the top of the tree from the ground:
Yoshi (can reach with DJ, Egg angles can make perfect shielding difficult, DJ dair pressure)
Samus (Up B can break shields)
ZSS (can reach with DJ)
Falco (can reach with DJ)
Pikachu (Thunder, QAC shenanigans?)
Greninja (can reach with DJ)
Shulk (can reach with DJ during jump monado)
Sonic (can reach quickly with up B)

Generally, if a character has landed on the tree itself they can apply lots of pressure, so you should avoid staying in shield moreso during these circumstances, and either jump away or get under them.

Also worth noting if you are running away don't miss out on opportunity for free damage if they over extend. The greater your lead the worse their morale and better off you are if you happen to make a mistake.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

I'm gonna throw this out there for falco because tbh i've been using him more than Yoshi lately, his air mobility and his ground speed are absolute trash lmfao. Unless boost pivot grab is still a thing that I just don't know how to do anymore, He's not threatening at all while approaching from the ground, and is really slow approaching horizontally from the air. I think if we don't want to get caught by a falco we can't get caught, but i've never played against a campy yoshi as falco, or camped a falco as Yoshi so I couldn't say for sure.

Basically what im getting at here is that even though if he's under you he can get up to you in a flash, if I'm understanding the way you do this circle camping thing right his approach should be too telegraphed to matter.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I get that, and likewise I haven't had experience camping Falco. His lasers will add % if he can hit with them consistantly but it could very easily (and likely) not matter and I'm just being cautious for no reason.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Relationship goals: Actually start repping Yoshi in tournaments, and not just at a local level. Funny, how despite considering (or simply referring to myself as...?) myself as a Yoshi main, I have always been known as "the Bowser guy"- and that's not even far too far from the tree. I never gave Yoshi a chance to shine.

GAME ON

Note to self: Stop doing SH Eggs. It's great, and it feels great and safe. But I just like having more ground-based momentum. Use, sparringly.

 

[YoHeKing]

Certain playstyles just really mess up egg spam though. I could never egg spam against my freind degerix. Hes been known to 2 stock campy yoshis. But I don't think I could ever camp really good ever.. Its just not in my nature. Ill just stick with my aerial spamming/spacing even though its considered "really bad at high level play".

Edit: thanks for the BF help.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I don't Egg spam, though. =) If anything, I actually don't use them enough. I am rather "in yo face" kind of player. I was talking about the SH Egg that creates an arc that sort of "protects" Yoshi because of the angle it goes (right in front and below). It's a great tool, but I don't like over-using it because it also leaves him out of the ground when he has a great ground game...

 

[YoHeKing]

I don't Egg spam, though. =) If anything, I actually don't use them enough. I am rather "in yo face" kind of player. I was talking about the SH Egg that creates an arc that sort of "protects" Yoshi because of the angle it goes (right in front and below). It's a great tool, but I don't like over-using it because it also leaves him out of the ground when he has a great ground game...

That is how I play. Alot of people think its bad at competitive play. But I think people are talking about the yoshi players like "a fair on sheild is 100% safe".

Also InfernoOmni has a good point on customs

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Fair on shield is 100% safe on some characters tho lmfao. It's actually kind of funny. Granted it has to be perfectly spaced, and some of those characters could punish it if they powershield. For example if Luigi doesn't powershield a perfectly spaced fair, he can't punish it at all. The closest option he has is shield dropping and down b in that case but we can shield first.

Guys do we have a thread for testing stuff and posting findings? Like I know we have the Labs thread that Scatz made but that's just a glitch archive. I feel like we don't really have super good documentation on what Yoshi is actually capable of. Like I still don't know if Dthrow upair is a real combo if you're frame perfect or if it just doesn't work.

 

[Sinister Slush]

We technically have my thread, but I haven't been updating it cause while it's basically an updated Lab thread without it being basically glitches (cause early wii u and 3ds day), I just been lazy past few months and updating only tournament thread and MU portal thread instead of doing the actual MU threads.

 

[Lukingordex]

Dthrow -> DJ Uair IS a true combo against some characters while others can easily escape by just Ding away...

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Dthrow -> DJ Uair IS a true combo against some characters while others can easily escape by just Ding away...

Which ones tho? lol
We're such an undocumented character. Collectively everyone who frequents this board probably knows just about everything Yoshi can do but since none of it is really collected anywhere it's not really helping.

 

[YoHeKing]

Im pretty sure down throw up air is a true combo on everyone without DI. You dont even need to dj somtimes and the combo counter even pops up for kirby. Its actually a great way to mix up DI'n for opponents at kill percents. Did I mention its a kill set up/frametrap on some stages?

Fair on shield is 100% safe on some characters tho lmfao. It's actually kind of funny. Granted it has to be perfectly spaced, and some of those characters could punish it if they powershield. For example if Luigi doesn't powershield a perfectly spaced fair, he can't punish it at all. The closest option he has is shield dropping and down b in that case but we can shield first.

Guys do we have a thread for testing stuff and posting findings? Like I know we have the Labs thread that Scatz made but that's just a glitch archive. I feel like we don't really have super good documentation on what Yoshi is actually capable of. Like I still don't know if Dthrow upair is a real combo if you're frame perfect or if it just doesn't work.

Also I know this. Its just not 100% safe with perfect sheilding. I myself knows how to make it 100% with well spaced fairs on almost anyone(besides perfect sheilds) sence I basically space fairs the whole match(and somehow do good).

 

[Sinister Slush]

Most of the Dthrow Uair stuff happens cause it's character and percent dependent, people who tend to get hit by it is because they don't try to escape by simply airdodging or jumping.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Also InfernoOmni has a good point on customs

We don't play with customs over here =)

 

[YoHeKing]

As much as i do enjoy customs if its for smash4's good then fine by me.

Also yoshis down throw up air works on everyone according to the training counter.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

The training counter is slightly inaccurate and doesn't account for DI at all.

 

[YoHeKing]

DI or not its still a true combo or is guaranteed combo better? Also dosnt DI'n up have more hitstun(somthing I heard recently)?

But im pretty sure down throw to up air still works on everyone without DI. I know a Jiggs main that does nothing but air dodge or jump air dodge and down throw up air always works. He dosnt really DI it at all to. Just saying though but somebody should make a list.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I don't think it's guaranteed in most situations, but I haven't tested it. Not the easiest thing for a single person to do.

It probably works on every character if they don't DI, but somewhat irrelevant since grabs are the easiest to react to and DI and there's only one option the opponent would have to DI.

 

[YoHeKing]

i can get kills at high percents from down throw becuase who DI's away from yoshi at kill %s? So it can be set up for kills at high percents with certain people.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

i can get kills at high percents from down throw becuase who DI's away from yoshi at kill %s?

People who know what they're doing I guess? lol It could use some testing though.

 

[YoHeKing]

People who know what they're doing I guess? lol It could use some testing though.

Im pretty sure its bad to di away from yoshi at say 100%. Not only does it set up easy edge guards but it could even kill them. But yeah somebody could test it 100%. I do know it has some good setups myself but having the full thing on paper would be a lot better then just me going by my knowledge.

 

[Delta-cod]

Guys do we have a thread for testing stuff and posting findings? Like I know we have the Labs thread that Scatz made but that's just a glitch archive. I feel like we don't really have super good documentation on what Yoshi is actually capable of. Like I still don't know if Dthrow upair is a real combo if you're frame perfect or if it just doesn't work.

Both the Labs thread and Slush's thread would be adequate places to begin collecting information. If you have a specific project in mind a new topic also works well (see Yoheking's DJ thread).

@throw discussion: I don't think DIing away from Yoshi is particularly dangerous. Fthrow/Bthrow never kill, and you'd have time to fix your DI after realizing what was happening before death.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Who are the best Yoshi players now? All I've seen was Slice being beast, and a bit of Raptor translating his solid base.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Raptor gets some results, so do other random Yoshi's like Mr. Doom and all that. Zude winning all the switz tournaments.

Yoshi's results is an enigma, they're kinda there but nothing on huge regional scales and absolutely nothing for national scale.
CEO was only Polt and KBD I think but Polt used mostly Luigi while KBD got to bracket then went 0-2, EVO had 0 Yoshi mains in top 32. APEX had Sky, which he got a free ride into.

Casuals and people who follow ZeRo/reddit will say Slice (because of combo video) and Sky as best Yoshi's because Zero said so, but really there's no top level Yoshi mains. Just some getting a handful of decents wins but never resulting in good enough placings to wow the crowd.

 

[Delta-cod]

Wouldn't you say Zude is doing well, considering he's winning almost everything he goes to? Or is the competition over there not that great?

 

[Sinister Slush]

Yeah but my cynicism strikes me when if, persay, there was 0 Yoshi mains outside of Nikes and Zude and I kept presenting the 1st place tournament wins they used too/kept getting to smashboards and then people ask "who did they beat?"

Basically, I can say the players are good in my eyes, but what if others ask if the scene is even good itself or who all is good/worth mentioning over there. Everyone won't care if you get 1st, they only care if Zero or other top players are around the scene to make it seem like it's a difficult scene to get first in.

Not downplaying their achievements, just not entirely sure who is good in that scene or if it really is just that free or not.

 

[YoHeKing]

Theres not really any major Yoshi players atm... Is there even a Yoshi player in the top 100 of ssb4? What about japan?

Also I know plenty of people who think slice is the best Yoshi player by alot just because of a combo video off of For Glory or somthing. Slice isnt bad im just saying combo videos don't really show the true skill out of people and it makes them look really good.

Both the Labs thread and Slush's thread would be adequate places to begin collecting information. If you have a specific project in mind a new topic also works well (see Yoheking's DJ thread).

@throw discussion: I don't think DIing away from Yoshi is particularly dangerous. Fthrow/Bthrow never kill, and you'd have time to fix your DI after realizing what was happening before death.

I really have to update that. Ill try to work on it today but I have a ton of projects right now. And also would DI away from yoshis back and forward throw kill pretty early? The hitstun seems long on his throws.

 

[Depster]

Mr. Doom is top 100 I think.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Are we going by smashboards rankings? If so let's address a few things.

1. Rankings only give points if you submit the result, thus if it's never submitted you never get to inflate your points to look good.
2. Rankings on Smashboards barely matters.
3. Yoshi likes fruit.

 

[YoHeKing]

I always did wonder about smashboards rankings. Is there another place? The melee rankings right now look really crappy and aMSa is like rank 105

 

[Delta-cod]

There's not realllllllly another centralized ranking location to my knowledge. However, the rankings here should probably be taking with a healthy serving of salt.

For Melee, I think MIOM did a top 100 ranking? But I'm not quite sure.