Yoshi Social-20 years of Yoshi's Island!

[Sinister Slush]

There is no tierlist tho
With EVO done the Smash 4 BR might come up soon and discussion for MU charts rulesets tierlists etc. will start up most likely.

You can't seriously think Diddy is worse than Rosalina Sonic or Ness, three other characters that people throw in top 5.

 

[YoHeKing]

Theres not many diddys anymore. The only reason he would be top5 is because ZeRo.

Also Ive been testing customs and characters who recovor low make the high jump, egg launch usefull. Characters who have combos that can be jumped out of use the down b for shooting stars. The bouncing egg roll is good on platforms and really safe if you know how to use it.

So yeah customs make Yoshis MUs alot better. Egg launch and super jump is really good in the mario MU because you can edge trump with the up b and go really deep against mario.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Are you seriously getting rid of Yoshi's eggs for some hops?

 

[YoHeKing]

IM rushdown. I dont need it in certain MUs. Like i said his customs are good in certain MUs.

 

[Sinister Slush]

All Yoshi mains are rushdown.
Yoshi as a character is rushdown.

He's just not a very good one compared to others like Falcon Sonic, only true different playstyle is our god Delta. And that's tossing 50 eggs before 1 minute.

 

[Delta-cod]

I'm still regarded as a Yoshi god? I'm so washed up, lol.

Yoshi can't even do non rushdown in this game because his pivot grab sucks. ;_;

I'll say that the characters of Evo top 8 surprised me. I wish Abadango had stuck with Wario, I think he mighta won had he done so.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Nah I was being sarcastic.
But yeah Yoshi is an extremely weak form of rushdown.

 

[YoHeKing]

Yoshi is a amazing rush down... He can make soooo many walls of aerials. He can also zone with his aerials. And his neutral B is just godlike.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Just because Diddy isn't easy to use anymore doesn't mean he's bad. It just means no one can get free wins with him.

The only aerial Yoshi can "wall" with is nair and that's actually punishable too. In fact Egg Lay is slow enough to be reacted to. I wouldn't exactly call that good (or godlike lol). Yoshi is probably better at runaway than rushdown. He's well rounded though imo.

 

[YoHeKing]

Thats kinda what I mean. Wall out fairs but not directly near thrm and pressute with it. Dont let people breath on the ledge. He defenetly shuts down campy players though.

But imo his airspeed is hard to actually punish if you know how to actually space and use the momentum correctly. I really need to get to tourneys I cant live with the fact that all my methods could possibly only work online. Just because I beat a ton of top 25 on anthers dosnt mean I could play the same offline.

Just found out my brother woulda tooken me to evo ;-;

Also diddy isnt bad. It takes skill to actually use him now and hes just... not as good as pre patch. Diddy after 1.0.6 was considerd top 15.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Sheik is also top 15 :^)

 

[YoHeKing]

So I played kj's Marth. It got rektd big time but he switched to sonic and won haha. There were ggs tho.

He told me im super hard to approach with all those aerial walls and stuff. So we played freindlys and I beat him again. Then he said... "Im gonna use my secret weapon. You worst nightmare" and I lost to the ditto. Great.

 

[Sinister Slush]

The ditto is quite honestly kryptonite to us.
I been taking a 3 or 4 week break from my towns weeklies (which he goes to) and I recall Zero (someone else in my scene, not ZeRo) telling me that he's been practicing Yoshi lately. So if I ever play KJ in bracket again, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he switched to Yoshi against me to finally win.

 

[YoHeKing]

The ditto is quite honestly kryptonite to us.
I been taking a 3 or 4 week break from my towns weeklies (which he goes to) and I recall Zero (someone else in my scene, not ZeRo) telling me that he's been practicing Yoshi lately. So if I ever play KJ in bracket again, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he switched to Yoshi against me to finally win.

Kj22np? His Yoshi Is about 3x more worst then mine. Somehow he only won with two moves and using nair after every move I landed him with but couldn't punish >.>

What makes really good Yoshi players loose to starter Yoshis? I loose to starters worst then pro yoshis...

 

[muddykips]

wait, you beat kj's marth with yoshi? i've never really been able to do that, marth's disjoints shut me down pretty hard...

also, i think against people that are "worse" than you, if they still know their fundamentals then it's better to stop and think, and make sure you aren't approaching a similar way each time. it's easy to underestimate them and focus on reading them without paying attention to how readable you're being yourself. ETS is a pretty nice way to take a breather and assess them.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I'm almost certain everyone is born with a little bit of Bad At Fighting Yoshi, and some just have less or more than others.

 

[GSM_Dren]

Yeah, we don't listen to Sakurai. Just like how PM is still widely acce- Oh wait.


Towards Dren tho, I don't understand the whole CUSTOMS MAKES LOW TIERS RELEVANT thing.
They obviously don't if vanilla diddy pre patch or current Sheik are still winning tournaments. (at least until EVO, but I doubt zero needs customs for either character to win lol, if he uses them he's prolly trying to "hype" the crowd)

Doesn't matter if Ganon can magically do a diagnol kick and he has more options.
OMG GANON SO SEXY WITH THAT KICK, HYRULE WARRIORS GANON BEST DESIGN MY BARA FETI- Sheik Serenade of Water too strong tho plz ban.

Palutena with customs before all the nerfs to Diddy.
SO MAJESTIC SO HOT HNNNGG GONNA SPREAD MY MAN SE-

O-oh right, you invalidate me anyways. Goddesses h-help me.

Both ganon and palutena with no customs honestly has more regional based players than Yoshi lol

It's such a weird argument. Sure you can say "customs make my character FUN and VIABLE" yet you're still losing to vanilla top tier anyways. Gj, you made it one or two places deeper into bracket, that hot 17th place tho. Delta-god be with me.
Same can "kinda" be said for non-custom, why allow them since they'd be dumb and stupid like that one kid that bullied me during recess!
But they actually just turn into derogative play for the small HANDFUL of customs that're worth using.
Let's be real, prolly close to 80% of customs are not useful (LITTLE MAC WILL DEFINITELY USE GUARD BREAKER, RITE GAIZ?) while the last 20ish or less % are either "ok, but vanilla is better" customs or some that just are plain silly or adds another dumb option to a character >sheik gravity grenade.

Are you gonna use any customs for Yoshi? If I ever entered a customs tournament very likely no, I'd toy with egg launch but I lose an option for a very niche one that can happen if I shoot them off level on Delfino?!?!?!?!?!?

Sorry for the late reply but I'm really not to following your argument here. I'm not trying to shove the for-custom movement down anyone's throats. All I'm saying is that customs shouldn't be banned exclusively because they are "jank" (man, who came up with this word anyway?!?). I understand that you don't like customs and yes for some characters, vanilla specials still do the job better or have customs that are marginally sidegrades (I'm looking at you, Yoshi).

Your argument appears to have deteriorated into actual crazy person speak. As far as I can tell, there are no counterpoints to customs in there. Sheik is going to win anyway? Well, true, most likely. How is that a mark against customs? At least the gap closes considerably.

Some customs are useless?

Who cares? Don't use them.

Thank you Scarlet Jile.

I was pretty much working the whole weekend trying to watch the evo stream whenever I could. I wish I could've seen more yoshis play. I tuned into the pre-evo party east vs west coast battle and afterwards watched Sky play against nairo, and he did a pretty good job. Also Omni kicked butt against doctor B. Theres always next year ;x

 

[YoHeKing]

wait, you beat kj's marth with yoshi? i've never really been able to do that, marth's disjoints shut me down pretty hard...

also, i think against people that are "worse" than you, if they still know their fundamentals then it's better to stop and think, and make sure you aren't approaching a similar way each time. it's easy to underestimate them and focus on reading them without paying attention to how readable you're being yourself. ETS is a pretty nice way to take a breather and assess them.

3 stocked his marth in freindlys and 2 stocked his marth with 12% in the serious game. He beat me with sonic after though.

Play SilverForUbers marth. His marth is insane.

Also I may have the replay of me vs kj22pn if anyone wants to see it. I basically used the same things I talk abouy here that barly anyone thinks that it works.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Feel free to add me and send it.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Upload it instead.
The past few months of "my playstyle is so much more aggressive and different than everyone else's" and "sheik is even MU" makes me wanna see this playstyle for myself. Only time I'd believe if someone is different from the rest of us is when Scatz says so, he's more believable.

 

[YoHeKing]

Im really use to it. Its fine and stuff. Also DragN, noft a few others and I play similar. We go in and we aren't campy if we dont need to be.

I get insulted alot for my playstyle on twitch and stuff because it seems like I play braindead. But I really dont.

And also im trying not to be so egotistic lately. Its one of those habits... but anyways Im driving back from California and If I don't have the replays(which I should have one) Ill just play him again.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I get insulted alot for my playstyle on twitch and stuff because it seems like I play braindead. But I really dont.

I feel like a lot of Yoshis from Brawl are struggling to adapt to the new yoshi meta. I know I just couldn't do it. I recognize that it's not technically "braindead" to revert to pure aggression, but it feels so counter-intuitive for me having come from such a defensive style in Brawl that I just can't succeed as well with the character. Well, strictly speaking, I can succeed just because yoshi is really good, but it doesn't feel good to play anymore, and I don't feel as in control of the character as I used to. Probably due in part to a lack of practice with him as well.

I think that's the reason I switched over to Ganon for the most part--he remains very defensive, read/punish oriented and can't be disrespected thanks to his ability to end stocks at virtually any percent. And Dark Fists is ridiculously fun.

 

[YoHeKing]

I didn't play brawl competitively. But smash 4 was my first serious game and I was hyped for greninja. I played melee seriously with my brother though but I still was bad.

Only reason I play rushdown or using a ton of pressure is because it fits my playstyle and its more effective for me. Im pretty sure all Yoshi playstyles could succeed because Yoshi has the tools.

Anyways Im close to finding a 0 to death combo guaranteed combo. SOOOO close. Its impossible to ever do on a human. Its just a cool thing like most infinites and 0 to deaths.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Last I checked most infinites and 0 to deaths are possible on humans. :/

 

[YoHeKing]

Really which? I think the peach and pikachu are the only ones that pro players cant escape.

Also this sucks. Im stuck in CA and the humidity is bad.

 

[Lukingordex]

I think customs should be allowed for characters that are low or mid tier without them (Palutena, WFT, DK, etc) and banned for characters that are already good without them (Villager, Sonic, Pikachu)

 

[Delta-cod]

If you've got a true 0-death combo (that beats any DI), then it should work on people. It'll be harder to set it up or get it to work, but it should still exist.

 

[YoHeKing]

If you've got a true 0-death combo (that beats any DI), then it should work on people. It'll be harder to set it up or get it to work, but it should still exist.

most infinites involve footstools u can move momentum with or somthing you can tech. Peaches and pikachus are the only 100% guarenteed combo. Im not 100% surr though.

I think customs should be allowed for characters that are low or mid tier without them (Palutena, WFT, DK, etc) and banned for characters that are already good without them (Villager, Sonic, Pikachu)

As much I like that Idea it would never happen. Top tier mains would call it "unfair" or somthing even though it kinda is. But from evo results customs barly effected anything besides characters that could use them. From what ive seen. Not 100% sure so somebody could correct me.

 

[Lukingordex]

As much I like that Idea it would never happen. Top tier mains would call it "unfair" or somthing even though it kinda is. But from evo results customs barly effected anything besides characters that could use them. From what ive seen. Not 100% sure so somebody could correct me.

But the idea IS to make the game more "fair".

I mean, pikachu is already pretty good without customs, he doesn't need a move that kills at 50% and a projectile that can combo into itself and to a kill move...

 

[YoHeKing]

But the idea IS toit make the game more "fair".

I mean, pikachu is already pretty good without customs, he doesn't need a move that kills at 50% and a projectile that can combo into itself and to a kill move...

That move honestly didnt turn out to well at evo. Abadango reacted to pretty well. But I understand the move dominating in low and intermediate play sence it can break sheilds. Maybe if they made it have less sheild pressure and more startup lag then im sure it would be fine.

But still the number1 thing I would like to see is marth buff/any low tier or mid tier buff and legalization of smooth lander badge possibly using the 3ds badge hacks(smooth lander badge with 0 stats).

 

[Delta-cod]

most infinites involve footstools u can move momentum with or somthing you can tech. Peaches and pikachus are the only 100% guarenteed combo. Im not 100% surr though.
As much I like that Idea it would never happen. Top tier mains would call it "unfair" or somthing even though it kinda is. But from evo results customs barly effected anything besides characters that could use them. From what ive seen. Not 100% sure so somebody could correct me.

Footstool trajectory would be dependent on how high up you actually need to land the footstool. But Yoshi's air speed is pretty good, why wouldn't we be able to follow?

If you can tech out of the combo it was never an infinite to begin with. Maybe a potentially infinitely long tech chase, but not a combo. These are great tools regardless, though.

 

[YoHeKing]

Footstool trajectory would be dependent on how high up you actually need to land the footstool. But Yoshi's air speed is pretty good, why wouldn't we be able to follow?

If you can tech out of the combo it was never an infinite to begin with. Maybe a potentially infinitely long tech chase, but not a combo. These are great tools regardless, though.

Good point. Today right before I left to california I played a robin and found a good tech chase/footstool trick on lylat and somehow got the double down air true combo (ive rarly pulled it off) which made me think of a new infinite and or 90% combo.

I go into the lab way to much and I may have found a new kill setup and combo setup approach I havent seen much around which is safe on sheild 100% so far. Also short hop up air to nair seems like a really insane frame trapping setup which set ups combos if they dodge the up air.

Ill share some info later with you guys if I find anything insane or some nice new set ups. Possibly lick to short hop up air to nair? Extra damage or a frame trap?

 

[Z'zgashi]

So I got 4th in my pool. I shouldve got 3rd but I choked pretty hard, regardless I wouldnt have made it out, didnt know how to fight Dedede and thats who knocked me into losers and who I wouldve played in Losers Finals if I didnt choke, but yeah lol.

I honestly am surprised though, I thought I'd get last in my pool or something cuz I literally never play this game, so the fact that I kinda almost got out of pools at Evo no less makes me more than happy with how I did.

Also:

You can't seriously think Diddy is worse than Rosalina Sonic or Ness, three other characters that people throw in top 5.

Rosy/Sonic/Ness > Diddy

Zero is on another level and has TONS of practice as Diddy and against Sheik. He didnt win because Diddy is good, he won because he's good with Diddy, knew the match up, and was the better player. Diddy is like, a bottom of top 10 character imo, like slightly above Mario levels of good. Imo he is DEFINITELY not a top tier, he gets the dong in too many match ups in top tier (like Rosy, Luigi, Ness, etc). He's a good character, but he's not top 5 imo.

And for reference, imo I'd say top 5 is something like: Sheik > Rosalina > Pikachu > Ness > Luigi or something like that. Maybe Pikachu down a spot or two, but still top 5.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I honestly think Diddy is still top 5, no I don't think just Zero only. I'm smart enough to know him vs Mr.R was basically player vs player.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Wasnt it Mr. R who got triple 2 stocked in Sheik dittos by Zero in another tournament (like CEO or something) or was that someone else? I dont see how getting bodied that hard equals even skill level.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I didn't say it was equal level skill lol
I said it was player vs player, not character vs character. Also point to me other Rosalina's that're strong besides dabunz

 

[YoHeKing]

I honestly think Diddy is still top 5, no I don't think just Zero only. I'm smart enough to know him vs Mr.R was basically player vs player.

Yeah I get It. I myself think Yoshi is top 5. But anyways I respect your opinion. Diddys Fair is really good still and spammable. His bananas make every thing better to.

Also dabunz lmao xD

 

[Sinister Slush]

I should also mention Rain, their best player in Japan along with some other people, still use Diddy at a high level as well.

And then you need to take into account Angel Cortes almost beating abadango at EVO, but star ko tho.
I believe Jtails and a bunch of other Diddy mains exist.
ZSS has nairo nick riddle and a few others while also always getting high placings everywhere.
Fox is literally infesting a lot of places, Luigi didn't show at up EVO, Ness is everywhere too.

My top 5 is more of Sheik ZSS/Pika Fox/Ness.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I didn't say it was equal level skill lol
I said it was player vs player, not character vs character. Also point to me other Rosalina's that're strong besides dabunz

Oh mb, read that wrong.

And I actually do agree, Rosy could be overrated, but atm I dont personally see anything better than her aside from obviously Sheik.

 

[YoHeKing]

Jtailswanted to drop diddy along with almost every diddy. And not because diddy "sucks" I use diddy myself and hes alot diffrent. They wanted to drop them because "Idk man they keep changing my damn character" -Jtails 2015.