Yoshi Social-20 years of Yoshi's Island!

[YoHeKing]

You could just ban or only allow 1111 2222 or 3333..

^they do that to mii brawler in some tourneys.

Also they can ban customs but make smooth lander legal!

 

[Z'zgashi]

Gl mang
Who's in your pool

Will

 

[YoHeKing]

Will

DKwill? Good thing he hates the Yoshi MU xD

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yeah, that Will: http://evo2015.s3.amazonaws.com/brackets/ssb4_e34.html

 

[YoHeKing]

Yeah, that Will: http://evo2015.s3.amazonaws.com/brackets/ssb4_e34.html

Beat him on his stream pretty badly. Would rather play him offline though.

But I do know he dislikes the Yoshi MU. Zone him out with eggs everyonce in awhile and switch things up.

 

[Z'zgashi]

That is if I even get to face him, I literally have next to no tournament experience with this game, just occasional fests with friends and such. I was decent at Brawl and a lot of it carries over, but I dont expect to get far, Im mostly there to watch.

 

[GSM_Dren]

this isnt the thread for this but whats ur thoughts on running customs in a tournament. or running 2 stocks vs 3 stocks for singles, its been nagging me for the past few weeks. "i host weeklies every saturday, this next one will be the 22nd event,"

are there any good comps for Yoshi doubles?

also what are your least favorite stages to play with Yoshi? Just wondering how the other Yoshi players feel about stage counters. TBH I feel like hes good on every stage so its hard to come up with bans against certain characters. i mean i know its mu specific, like projectiles ull want a stage that makes it easier for eggs to land or what ever,

I don't know who suits yoshi the best in doubles. I'd imagine it'd be a character who has a better kill setups and also can give yoshi space to run and toss eggs. My doubles partner plays kirby and while there's much room to improve, we do a pretty good job.

It's true that yoshi can excel on plenty of stages, but I'm not a fan of stages that interrupt eggs. One stage I'd rather not play on would be halberd for sure, the low ceiling is a double edged sword and stage hazards are lame. Otherwise, I don't really mind the other counterpicks.

--

2 stocks is better for bigger tournaments while 3 stocks is more player friendly. Ideally, it would be great to have tournaments at 3 stocks, but its not a big deal to have it set to 2.

Now for the bigger fish: for customs vs no customs, it will have to depend on the community. I am a pro-custom person, but if people don't want to play against customs then it'd be a good idea to restrict them to keep your tournament numbers.

I seriously do not get why people are adamant about using the argument that customs are "jank" or are unfair for DLC characters. Not even one custom puts a character to the viability of ms. top tier default shiek nor put them at the level of other high tiered characters. I think that some non-custom folk are quick to call customs jank because they're too lazy and don't want to learn to play against them.

Kong cyclone? BAN. Trip sapling+extreme balloon trip? BAN. Jumbo hoops? BAN. Yes these few customs are strong, but they do not make the character unbeatable. The better and knowledgeable player will usually win customs or no customs.

Customs do not spell doom for Smash 4, I'd like to think the opposite. Customs allow for more characters to see tournament play. Think of ganondorf or palutena for example, non-customs they don't bat an eye. But with customs they become a threat in their own way. It just gives characters more tools to win a once unfavorable matchup in vanilla.

Anyway thats my 2 cents on it. I wish I made the choice to attend EVO this weekend, a whole bunch of my friends are over there now. ;_;

 

[YoHeKing]

Sheik still isnt unbeatable anyways and shes not broken IMO. She kinda has a ton of endlag anyways.

I do think some customs can make characters better or = to her though.

Also Ive been wanting to bring this up.
Why doesn't Yoshis alt neutral B moves change his throws? Why doesn't Yoshi have a tether grab or somthing?

 

[Nikes]

What do you do against Sheik then? I believe she can be beaten but it is definitely a steep hill for us.

 

[YoHeKing]

Trust me our MU against sheik isnt as bad as alot of other people.

I play aggressive and I throw out a ton of "braindead" and "predictable" moves like full hop fair to fair, fair to nair, fair to b reversal ect. But I do change my momentum alot in diffrent patterns in that MU and do stuff like a baiting dj approaching. So Im basically zoning till I make the player to adapt to my approaches. Then I change them up after that.

I don't know if that has to do with anything but its been workng in alot of MUs. I hardly use eggs BTW unless certain occasions.

 

[Nikes]

She shields Fairs and punishes those. I play aggressive rush down and don't use eggs either, idk what our neutral game's supposed to be like vs her but we should definitely try to avoid being in the air where we can help it unless following up a combo.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Either allow them all or ban them all. No excuses.

This is still incredibly dumb. Sounds like Donald Trump's immigration ideas.

A global agreement that customs is unbalanced and silly, Sakurai has stated it's for fun not for seriouslies, allowing customs indirectly gimps mewtwo roy lucas ryu and that's not fair to our boy Ro- lucas

1. If by "global agreement" you mean a minority of players, sure, okay. Less than 30% according to any poll results I've seen
2. Sakurai LOL, good thing we developed our metagame around that guy's sound competitive opinions
3. Yeah, it sucks for Mewtwo, Ryu, Roy & Lucas to have fewer options. But then again, Sheik sucks for Mewtwo, Ryu, Roy & Lucas, and that's probably not going to change any time soon. At least with customs, a few characters that were unplayable become playable while the top of the list stays about the same

 

[Sinister Slush]

Yeah, we don't listen to Sakurai. Just like how PM is still widely acce- Oh wait.


Towards Dren tho, I don't understand the whole CUSTOMS MAKES LOW TIERS RELEVANT thing.
They obviously don't if vanilla diddy pre patch or current Sheik are still winning tournaments. (at least until EVO, but I doubt zero needs customs for either character to win lol, if he uses them he's prolly trying to "hype" the crowd)

Doesn't matter if Ganon can magically do a diagnol kick and he has more options.
OMG GANON SO SEXY WITH THAT KICK, HYRULE WARRIORS GANON BEST DESIGN MY BARA FETI- Sheik Serenade of Water too strong tho plz ban.

Palutena with customs before all the nerfs to Diddy.
SO MAJESTIC SO HOT HNNNGG GONNA SPREAD MY MAN SE-

O-oh right, you invalidate me anyways. Goddesses h-help me.

Both ganon and palutena with no customs honestly has more regional based players than Yoshi lol

It's such a weird argument. Sure you can say "customs make my character FUN and VIABLE" yet you're still losing to vanilla top tier anyways. Gj, you made it one or two places deeper into bracket, that hot 17th place tho. Delta-god be with me.
Same can "kinda" be said for non-custom, why allow them since they'd be dumb and stupid like that one kid that bullied me during recess!
But they actually just turn into derogative play for the small HANDFUL of customs that're worth using.
Let's be real, prolly close to 80% of customs are not useful (LITTLE MAC WILL DEFINITELY USE GUARD BREAKER, RITE GAIZ?) while the last 20ish or less % are either "ok, but vanilla is better" customs or some that just are plain silly or adds another dumb option to a character >sheik gravity grenade.

Are you gonna use any customs for Yoshi? If I ever entered a customs tournament very likely no, I'd toy with egg launch but I lose an option for a very niche one that can happen if I shoot them off level on Delfino?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Your argument appears to have deteriorated into actual crazy person speak. As far as I can tell, there are no counterpoints to customs in there. Sheik is going to win anyway? Well, true, most likely. How is that a mark against customs? At least the gap closes considerably.

Some customs are useless?

Who cares? Don't use them.

 

[Sinister Slush]

The gap doesn't close cause if the top tiers feel like it, they can use their own silly customs to be even more annoying.
Sheik gravity grenade
Diddy UpB barrels or stun banana
Rosalina Luma warp and falco laser
Pikachu HSB and Thundershock
Fox Twisting Fox
Sonic both spin dashes, hammer/Flaming
Villager trip sapling
Mii Brawler Helicopter kick
Wario Rose Scented Waft

Oh hey, I can't think of anything for Ness or ZSS having silly customs that makes them stronger. Maybe it's not all bad.

 

[noft]

I don't know who suits yoshi the best in doubles. I'd imagine it'd be a character who has a better kill setups and also can give yoshi space to run and toss eggs. My doubles partner plays kirby and while there's much room to improve, we do a pretty good job.

It's true that yoshi can excel on plenty of stages, but I'm not a fan of stages that interrupt eggs. One stage I'd rather not play on would be halberd for sure, the low ceiling is a double edged sword and stage hazards are lame. Otherwise, I don't really mind the other counterpicks.

--

2 stocks is better for bigger tournaments while 3 stocks is more player friendly. Ideally, it would be great to have tournaments at 3 stocks, but its not a big deal to have it set to 2.

Now for the bigger fish: for customs vs no customs, it will have to depend on the community. I am a pro-custom person, but if people don't want to play against customs then it'd be a good idea to restrict them to keep your tournament numbers.

I seriously do not get why people are adamant about using the argument that customs are "jank" or are unfair for DLC characters. Not even one custom puts a character to the viability of ms. top tier default shiek nor put them at the level of other high tiered characters. I think that some non-custom folk are quick to call customs jank because they're too lazy and don't want to learn to play against them.

Kong cyclone? BAN. Trip sapling+extreme balloon trip? BAN. Jumbo hoops? BAN. Yes these few customs are strong, but they do not make the character unbeatable. The better and knowledgeable player will usually win customs or no customs.

Customs do not spell doom for Smash 4, I'd like to think the opposite. Customs allow for more characters to see tournament play. Think of ganondorf or palutena for example, non-customs they don't bat an eye. But with customs they become a threat in their own way. It just gives characters more tools to win a once unfavorable matchup in vanilla.

Anyway thats my 2 cents on it. I wish I made the choice to attend EVO this weekend, a whole bunch of my friends are over there now. ;_;

hey thanks for the tips ill keep this in mind.

 

[YoHeKing]

She shields Fairs and punishes those. I plain aggressive rush down and don't use eggs either, idk what our neutral game's supposed to be like vs her but we should definitely try to avoid being in the air where we can help it unless following up a combo.

Its hard to explain for me. Id really want to get to offline tourneys but I cant find any In AZ. So I guess ill be a online Yoshi for awhile.

The gap doesn't close cause if the top tiers feel like it, they can use their own silly customs to be even more annoying.
Sheik gravity grenade
Diddy UpB barrels or stun banana
Rosalina Luma warp and falco laser
Pikachu HSB and Thundershock
Fox Twisting Fox
Sonic both spin dashes, hammer/Flaming
Villager trip sapling
Mii Brawler Helicopter kick
Wario Rose Scented Waft

Oh hey, I can't think of anything for Ness or ZSS having silly customs that makes them stronger. Maybe it's not all bad.

Sheiks custom side b is actually really easy to avoid. Its pretty slow to.
Diddy is now gonna need those.
Rosalina warp isnt as good as people think. Its a set distance and gets luma more introuble.
HSB and ThunderShock require a big read and if they miss they have a ton of endlag.
Twisting fox... does anyone actually get effected by that?
Helicopter kick is pretty bad imo. Piston punch is way worst.

There high or top tiers and they only have a few good customs. Now look at charzard.

Charzard
Amazing alt down b that you can spam.
Amazing side B called dragon rush
Amazing faster and higher recovery.
Firefang that does 22% and kills early. Also another alt neutral b that goes all the way across the stage.

Bowser
Amazing custom side B that makes him faster and have more combos.
A faster down B that can shake ground kill and break sheilds.
Better neutral B that does a ton more damage and range.

Kirby.(mid or low high tier I think)
Better neutral B.
Amazing up B that goes further and kills.
Down B that can do massive damage if hit and one that can spike.
Side b that is faster and stronger which boost recovory. Side b that has the best super armor in the game that cannot be broken.

Also Yoshi does have viable customs.

One allows him to go for deeper edge guards. Helps with MUs like luigi, rosalina ect.
His alt down b that shoots stars is spammable on stages like halberd and dolpano which can set up kills.
Side B that some characters cannot punish because there to slow and it kills at high percents. Its pretty spammable on BF.

So im pretty sure yoshi benefits the same with customs as most other people. Specifically his down and side B.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Rosalina, Fox and Pikachu do get better with customs, and Pikachu's heavy skull bash might be problematic, although there's no real evidence to support that he's better than Sheik yet. Sheik is most likely still the best character even though her customs are totally negligible. Customs villager isn't even top tier, it's just boring to watch.

Even so, one or two problematic moves don't equate to an entire problematic system. This "all or nothing" mentality makes no sense and is totally damaging to the community. It's like if we said "Well, Metaknight is stupidly overpowered, let's ban all of the characters in Brawl."

 

[YoHeKing]

Rosalina, Fox and Pikachu do get better with customs, and Pikachu's heavy skull bash might be problematic, although there's no real evidence to support that he's better than Sheik yet. Sheik is most likely still the best character even though her customs are totally negligible. Customs villager isn't even top tier, it's just boring to watch.

Even so, one or two problematic moves don't equate to an entire problematic system. This "all or nothing" mentality makes no sense and is totally damaging to the community. It's like if we said "Well, Metaknight is stupidly overpowered, let's ban all of the characters in Brawl."

HSB isnt that bad. Its alot harder to use then you think. The only problem with it is it can kill really early with a hard read with one of the fastest characters. But its not really broken at all IMO.

 

[noft]

Hardest MU for me = ZSS mario sonic pikachu marth

most disliked mu = captain falcon
to many jab spam combos and to many side b kills to not hate this mu, i cant even explain in words on how much i hate this. more then a quarter of my games on smashladder are against captain falcons . i have over 126 and all but 1 played the same way, and its just like hey ima just mash a to throw out the fastest jab possible and just let it finish, then ima spam side b until it connects.

funner mu = diddy kong, yoshi,
something about yoshi dittos give me a spark of energy back that i lose when playing against the spammiest of shield grabbers roll behind grab or dash attack type of player.

boring mu = custom villager, ness,
idk how many times the clock ran out in these mu's but it usually puts me to sleep.
i mean why are you going to sit there and act like ur falco from melee with lloyd rocket and camp edge all day, no fun what so ever lol. MATRIX TIME.

questionable mu = kddd, link and toon link, rosalina
where ever theres a will theres a way, lets be sure to get hit by every boomering and bomb from now on k? lol there are some really good links on anthers ladder, and it can be tedious to play against projectile users with yoshi how ever ive found just trying to spam the most ammount of a and air dodges u can even catch the boomerangs and it prevents link from throwing anymore out!!! joking.

mmmm oh last but not least, most feared mu = wonky kong (windy kong custom build) no just no, i feel like the game is gona break when he does an up b and i get a full dair on the so called super saiyan legenda.

 

[YoHeKing]

I dont have trouble with those MUs for some reason. Beat winds (best toon link on ladder). Beat disoreint (top25 and best zss on ladder). Almost beat wraths/natsus sonic(hes top 3 on ladder and he plays sonic). And I almost beat shana (best pikachu on anthers ladder? I think her name is cosmoscosmo?)

What I do have trouble with is lag, yoshi or olimar. Olimar is just one of those MUs that forces me to play a way I really dont want to. And I often loose the yoshi ditto... Most of the time the more patient Yoshi play wins the dittos or the Yoshi that uses alot of eggs. And im the oppisite of those two lol.

 

[noft]

I dont have trouble with those MUs for some reason. Beat winds (best toon link on ladder). Beat disoreint (top25 and best zss on ladder). Almost beat wraths/natsus sonic(hes top 3 on ladder and he plays sonic). And I almost beat shana (best pikachu on anthers ladder? I think her name is cosmoscosmo?)

What I do have trouble with is lag, yoshi or olimar. Olimar is just one of those MUs that forces me to play a way I really dont want to. And I often loose the yoshi ditto... Most of the time the more patient Yoshi play wins the dittos or the Yoshi that uses alot of eggs. And im the oppisite of those two lol.

Not enough mu practice, once i learn the manners for this game , and destroy the old habits from Melee, ill be ok. why does yoshi spot dodge never work lol, not use to having a wonky ass spot dodge that i can be grabbed out of the first frames of it.

what are some
good uses for down smash, i know its an option for the ledge , i never really use the down smash though, use to be good when the 3ds version first came out

 

[YoHeKing]

Not enough mu practice, once i learn the manners for this game , and destroy the old habits from Melee, ill be ok. why does yoshi spot dodge never work lol, not use to having a wonky *** spot dodge that i can be grabbed out of the first frames of it.

what are some
good uses for down smash, i know its an option for the ledge , i never really use the down smash though, use to be good when the 3ds version first came out

His spot dodge is pretty good tbh. Also down smash is good for combos or punishing techs or platform get ups. Its seriously somthing i would use for stuff like fair to down smash(low percent hitstun) or somthing like nair to down smash.

 

[Fuerzo]

There have been so many good Yoshis at EVO today. Just watched Omni win a set with him against Doctor B (a Falcon)

 

[YoHeKing]

I havnt seen any yoshis at all lmao. Wat

 

[Sinister Slush]

The only Yoshi I saw before sleeping out of boredom from the stream was Sky popping off from a pools win and a random Yoshi I never heard of.

 

[YoHeKing]

Denti shouldnt be using yoshi. The way he plays him then he basically disses him when he looses because he switches to top tier lmao.


I hear Yoshi has been doing the best in evo. Not sure yet tho

 

[Sinister Slush]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ehNNiwyVNyyYmCGQMJ358/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0

Here's this.

 

[Yoshi-hara]

You guys probably know this but Yoshi's upsmash can dodge low attacks, like a lot of dtilts.

 

[YoHeKing]

Including alot of specials to.

I just got 3 stocked by a platinum 3 sonic but somehow brought it back on game 2. Then game 3 it wasnt close and I almost jv'd him. I got 29 points just from that battle lmao. If I can play enough ill get up to mudykips level.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I'm assuming you meant Anther's ladder.

I forgot Anther loved league so much when he used to play with us that he used league's system, which is cool and almost .0001% tempting to play online.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

HSB isnt that bad. Its alot harder to use then you think.

It's exactly as bad as I thought and way easier to use than I thought.

 

[noft]

Denti shouldnt be using yoshi. The way he plays him then he basically disses him when he looses because he switches to top tier lmao.


I hear Yoshi has been doing the best in evo. Not sure yet tho

ive played denti in austin ,he didnt know any tech for him, just had decent mechanics, we played alotof friendlies and i money matched him and lost,this was before i started playing all the time, i do like his play to a certain degree.

 

[YoHeKing]

In competitive play HSB isnt that bad meaning top players. Its not HSB that makes esam great you know.

Its a broken move but its not perfect. I don't think it needs a nerf.

ive played denti in austin ,he didnt know any tech for him, just had decent mechanics, we played alotof friendlies and i money matched him and lost,this was before i started playing all the time, i do like his play to a certain degree.

Everytime i see his yoshi I only see air dodges.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Its a broken move but its not perfect. I don't think it needs a nerf.

It's a "broken" move that you don't think needs a nerf?

Ok, then.

 

[YoHeKing]

MAn... See what i mean? Smash4 anything is possible. Im just sick of melee top 3 characters only winning and stuff.

In a way smash4>melee IMO. Smash4 is getting faster and faster. And customs where no problem in evo. Top 2 didn't even need it so why disable customs?

That ending is hype tho.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Are you implying diddy isn't top 5.

 

[YoHeKing]

No. Everyone thought sheik would win not diddy. A 3-0 against a sheik with diddy. Isnt Diddy like top 15 atm?

 

[Sinister Slush]

No. Diddy is still top 5.
Zero used Sheik most of the tournament, where are you getting this whole DIDDY WON THE TOURNAMENT.
He won the grand finals with Diddy yes, but that's cause he didn't wanna do Sheik ditto. Which honestly, I feel Mr.R is prolly a better Sheik player, just Zero is a better player.

 

[YoHeKing]

Diddy won evo. Grand finals means the winner of evo.

Also I didn't know diddy was top 5 still. Last time i checked the recent tier list he wasnt. Zero said he was top 15 I think to. But whatever. If theres any proof then be happy to link it