Yoshi Social-20 years of Yoshi's Island!

[Sinister Slush]

No idea honestly. I don't understand why people even say "don't go to X thing on smashboards" when more than half the community has moved on to Facebook twitter Twitch or reddit. It's universally true and why these boards have slowed down since the DDoS happened.

Forum being moved/changed in a way that was discomforting for most people and the fact social media is better (to some) to converse about things.
Mr. Doom doesn't go on smashboards anyways so not sure why he's saying don't go there when we can prolly help new Yoshi's more than he can.

 

[Depster]

I don't get it either, but yeah, everyone in the Wichita crew just uses facebook and has meetups twice a week. He may have been suggesting to people in the Wichita community to just ask him rather than come here, which is probably ok since he has such good results.

 

[DragN]

Positive thinking will help alot I agree with Nat and Nikes. Yoshi is much better. I'm happy for that, and I think we can all benefit from shifting the focus on what Yoshi can't do, to what he CAN DO and what makes him unique and awesome.

 

[Sinister Slush]

We all know Yoshi is good. The problem is when people say he's top 3, has 0 lag on moves, or think he's better than a good portion of characters that have better everything than him.
It's not negativity per say, but more of trying to beat into people's heads that he's not diddy/sheik level.

 

[YoHeKing]

I said he could be top 3 IMO. Hes not really cheap and he dosnt have any truly good MU or bad MU imo. When I see replays of sheik VS yoshi in real tourneys its normally close and not sheik distroying yoshi.

Besides Im not the one who thinks the Yoshi boards is as bad as people say. Its most what Yoshi cant do tbh. But nobody seems mean here.

When I was new to smashboards you guys acted like the sheik MU was impossible and she couldnt be even be ede guarded. But TBH Ive played great sheiks online but some offline so I have nothing to show. Tourneys are hard to find in AZ...

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Even so. I'm sure it comes off to some people that we're all just huge pessimists and don't want to accept how good Yoshi is. Overall I think Yoshi is a character with few weaknesses and few strengths. A very well rounded character that can respond well to a lot of situations, but I think he struggles heavily against other characters who are well rounded and have better frame data or combos (like Sheik or Mario). I think the big problem here is people see few weaknesses in him but see strengths he doesn't have, and perceive him much stronger than he actually is.

For the record I don't think top 10 is too ridiculous to place Yoshi. I'm not convinced he's that level atm, but open to being proven wrong if anyone feels like it. although after reading Sakurai's stance on how he balances the game I am worried that Yoshi being hard to deal with in mid level play could lead to future nerfs.

 

[ReturningFall]

One of my freind james (not DragN) said something about this place. He used big words and I had to look it up on google xD.

This community is alot nicer then alot others though. I saw I guy that was new to smashboards getting chewed out just for double posting... I use to double post her alot lol.

What'd he say exactly?

Yeah, I think the boards with a legacy and a (traditionally) not-top tier character tend to be nicer.

I don't get it either, but yeah, everyone in the Wichita crew just uses facebook and has meetups twice a week. He may have been suggesting to people in the Wichita community to just ask him rather than come here, which is probably ok since he has such good results.

Kinda curious what he has to say, now.

 

[Sinister Slush]

None of it was directed at you, I'm talking about everyone in the community.

 

[ReturningFall]

None of it was directed at you, I'm talking about everyone in the community.

???

I wasn't thinking of anything you were saying, or are you not talking to me?

Unless you're talking about my curiosity on what people are talking about. (And I don't mean anything more, if it's not worth talking about just say so)

 

[Sinister Slush]

Not talking to you.

 

[GSM_Dren]

Players show pessimism about their main because they actually play the character and know the capabilities and faults that they have. In conclusion, yoshi is good, but not as amazing insanely good as the community believes he is. I'm not going to change mains anytime soon even if they nerf yoshi to the ground, but I'm going to keep my options open by exploring other characters if I need to. I would say yoshi's definitely top 15, and will hopefully move up as the meta continues to evolve. go yoshi ~

 

[muddykips]

with how good shields are in this game, i think the main problem that keeps yoshi from being higher up is his grab. if you look at the characters that most people rank as top tier, they've all got good grabs, while yoshi's is really high risk / low reward in comparison. neutral b is great and all, but with the lengths you have to go to set up for that (which rarely gets a followup anyways), it'd be a heck of a lot easier if yoshi could just run up and grab people by the collar instead.

yoshi has arguably the best air game out of everyone, but that still doesn't erase the fact that the air is a really vulnerable place to be, which i think a lot of [for lack of a better term] less skilled players don't notice. the only way yoshi gets a kill is if he lands a hard read or manages to pop the enemy in the air first, and against players that know what they're doing, both are a hassle. a safer grab (read: not a laggy ranged one) would help eliminate both problems; but as it stands, we have to work pretty hard to get kills on people who know yoshi's limits.

it's why i feel confident against people who complain about yoshi's No Lag Moves.

 

[YoHeKing]

"Yoshi jas no lag" "yoshi kills to early" "Yoshi is broken"

I swear people always say that when they loose. Yoshi is pretty safe though at times. But im not trying to over rate yoshi I just think someday he will somehow get into the top 3 players(maybe number 1). The top 20 players will eventually fall yknow.

I guess im just stubern though when it comes to MUs. Im the guy that looses a match and studys the MU and replays for hours and tryes everything possible against that character... then i refuse to loose xD

Even so. I'm sure it comes off to some people that we're all just huge pessimists and don't want to accept how good Yoshi is. Overall I think Yoshi is a character with few weaknesses and few strengths. A very well rounded character that can respond well to a lot of situations, but I think he struggles heavily against other characters who are well rounded and have better frame data or combos (like Sheik or Mario). I think the big problem here is people see few weaknesses in him but see strengths he doesn't have, and perceive him much stronger than he actually is.

For the record I don't think top 10 is too ridiculous to place Yoshi. I'm not convinced he's that level atm, but open to being proven wrong if anyone feels like it. although after reading Sakurai's stance on how he balances the game I am worried that Yoshi being hard to deal with in mid level play could lead to future nerfs.

Reminder even sheik has weaknesses. Im pretty sure every character has them.

What'd he say exactly?

Yeah, I think the boards with a legacy and a (traditionally) not-top tier character tend to be nicer.



Kinda curious what he has to say, now.

Ill try to find the post

Also our character is better then most and we have seen low and mid tier characters get great results in tourneys. ZeRo just won the recent tourney with diddy lol. So I still have hope Yoshi could dominate. Im pretty sure were all good yoshis here and can eventually dominate.

Also If you want a Yoshi buff go on FG and play really bad lol. Im kidding but it could work maybe.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Reminder even sheik has weaknesses. Im pretty sure every character has them.

What weaknesses does Sheik have?

 

[Delta-cod]

Lightweight, killpower issues (kinda), lack of disjoint?

I think what stops Yoshi from top 3 is having something ridiculously bonkers about him. He seems kinda "fair", if you know what I mean. I don't think he does stuff that makes people who know what they're doing go "woooooooooooow that's so stupidly good", and that's the kind of stuff I think you need to be up at top 3.

His fairness is what I like though. It lets me feel like I'm actually outplaying my opponent, because Yoshi's good enough to give me the options to do so. I actually attribute a lot of my understanding of Smash and development of my skills due to maining Yoshi.

 

[YoHeKing]

What eaknesses does Sheik have?

Combo breakers. Cant kill. Weak range. And I think she has a stalling Issue?

I dont get how yoshi cant be a counter though. I mean his 2nd jump and nair break her everything lol.

Lightweight, killpower issues (kinda), lack of disjoint?

I think what stops Yoshi from top 3 is having something ridiculously bonkers about him. He seems kinda "fair", if you know what I mean. I don't think he does stuff that makes people who know what they're doing go "woooooooooooow that's so stupidly good", and that's the kind of stuff I think you need to be up at top 3.

His fairness is what I like though. It lets me feel like I'm actually outplaying my opponent, because Yoshi's good enough to give me the options to do so. I actually attribute a lot of my understanding of Smash and development of my skills due to maining Yoshi.

Exactly. I would rather win a tourney with skill and not somthing broken. People who call yoshi broken just are salty. And id say hes really fair. He doesnt have really Good MUs or really bad MUs IMO. Its just people dont know how to fight a yoshi so they call him broken.

Anyways ive been wanting to make a thread of what yoshis super armor without % can go through untill it stops. Then we could find a multiplyer or a rule like an extra 2% of rage -1% on super armor? I cant explain it lol. But I think a whole thread of every move VS yoshis super armor would be cool. Ill get my computer ready if anyone likes the idea?

 

[Delta-cod]

It's a good idea. Jump armor percents are always worth knowing, at least just so we have a better idea.

Just to clarify, it's Heavy Armor, not Super Armor. Super Armor wouldn't be able to get broken, while Heavy Armor can be in various ways.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Combo breakers only work against things that aren't guaranteed, and Sheik has guaranteed some combos, also not a problem if you're neutral is incredibly good like hers.

I lot of people mention how Sheik has a bad kill game, so I can understand if people disagree with me here but.. How exactly is it worse than ours? The only thing we have over her in killing people is that we can kill earlier, and it's not significantly more. She has Ftilt > up air which is true if Ftilt is staled, Down throw > up air/vanish, aerial Needles > bouncing fish, late nair > bouncing fish. Overall she can fish for kills without risking big punishes, and we generally can't except like up air and maybe an anti air up smash or up tilt? Can someone explain how Yoshi's kill game isn't garbage? I don't see it at all.

I'm not 100% sure but I think Sheik's fair is disjointed, and really does have a lot of range. I just went in training mode to confirm, and it has more range than our fair if you account for Yoshi's big nose (which you should imo)? Her fair reaches farther than everything we have except Fsmash, grab (and eggs I guess lol).

That's just our problem with Sheik, we are both well rounded and there's no kind of way to play that'll make it hard on her and she overall has better tools.

Anyways ive been wanting to make a thread of what yoshis super armor without % can go through untill it stops. Then we could find a multiplyer or a rule like an extra 2% of rage -1% on super armor? I cant explain it lol. But I think a whole thread of every move VS yoshis super armor would be cool. Ill get my computer ready if anyone likes the idea?

I would love to see that! I have no idea what the limits for it are in this game.

 

[YoHeKing]

Combo breakers only work against things that aren't guaranteed, and Sheik has guaranteed some combos, also not a problem if you're neutral is incredibly good like hers.

I lot of people mention how Sheik has a bad kill game, so I can understand if people disagree with me here but.. How exactly is it worse than ours? The only thing we have over her in killing people is that we can kill earlier, and it's not significantly more. She has Ftilt > up air which is true if Ftilt is staled, Down throw > up air/vanish, aerial Needles > bouncing fish, late nair > bouncing fish. Overall she can fish for kills without risking big punishes, and we generally can't except like up air and maybe an anti air up smash or up tilt? Can someone explain how Yoshi's kill game isn't garbage? I don't see it at all.

I'm not 100% sure but I think Sheik's fair is disjointed, and really does have a lot of range. I just went in training mode to confirm, and it has more range than our fair if you account for Yoshi's big nose (which you should imo)? Her fair reaches farther than everything we have except Fsmash, grab (and eggs I guess lol).

That's just our problem with Sheik, we are both well rounded and there's no kind of way to play that'll make it hard on her and she overall has better tools.

I would love to see that! I have no idea what the limits for it are in this game.

I actually know the limits for almost all the aireals myself.

And i was gonna bring that up but yoshi dosnt have a hard time for killing like sheik. Basicly at 120% all his aireals can kill lol.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Well that's not true. dair, nair wont kill. Not sure about fair but stalling is a thing and fair is one of our better moves in neutral (nair too actually). Would bair even be really feasible on stage? I'd argue that fits in "moves that can be punished hard" if you're landing with it.

 

[YoHeKing]

Well that's not true. dair, nair wont kill. Nit can t sure about fair but stalling is a thing and fair is one of our better moves in neutral (nair too actually). Would bair even be really feasible on stage? I'd argue that fits in "moves that can be punished hard" if you're landing with it.

With rage all out aireals kill. And yoshi should have rage. A well spaced down air can kill near edge because It can launch vertically. I once kills a mario at 90% with it. And nair is a good killing option at high percents. It can even combo into a upsmash if softspoted.

Edit: body hit from fair can kill
Edit2: I normaly use back air for punishes and with full hops to catch falling opponents. It can lead into a spike and then u can get a free hit.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

A well spaced down air can kill near edge because It can launch vertically. I once kills a mario at 90% with it.

Do you mean stage spike?

Edit: body hit from fair can kill

Ya I thought you meant that. That's what my post was referring to.

These things apply to Sheik too. Maybe not the rage, but Sheik can be pretty evasive.

edit:

Edit2: I normaly use back air for punishes and with full hops to catch falling opponents. It can lead into a spike and then u can get a free hit.

Can opponents tech bair if they fall out of it? I keep forgetting to bring this up..

 

[YoHeKing]

Do you mean stage spike?


Ya I thought you meant that. That's what my post was referring to.

These things apply to Sheik too. Maybe not the rage, but Sheik can be pretty evasive.

edit:

Can opponents tech bair if they fall out of it? I keep forgetting to bring this up..

For the bair spike They can but somtimes you can hit them as there falling.

Down air can kill if u have rage and there at high percents. Without the stage spike. It just need to be near edge but if its not you can still go for edguards.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

OHHH you meant the sideways final hit of dair. Very interesting................... or not? Looked at your post again and it said vertical hit which is up. >.< I'm so confused.

 

[YoHeKing]

OHHH you meant the sideways final hit of dair. Very interesting................... or not? Looked at your post again and it said vertical hit which is up. >.< I'm so confused.

Yeah horizontal. Pfft ive know the differences sence 2nd grade lol. I guess I goofed up.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Well, I got shamed for being a Yoshi main today... it felt bad.

 

[YoHeKing]

Well, I got shamed for being a Yoshi main today... it felt bad.

Why? Was somebody salty or somthing?

 

[Iblistech]

Well, I got shamed for being a Yoshi main today... it felt bad.

That shouldn't even matter. What should matter is that you enjoy playing our favorite dinosaur. :D

 

[YoHeKing]

I just found out that short hop up air to nair is a thing.

 

[TKOWL]

Anyone just keep jabbing at shields repeatedly? It's coming as an impulse to me due to how safe Yoshi's jabs are and I don't know how much pressure I'm actually applying doing it

 

[Delta-cod]

It's okay~ish. It's not strictly safe, but if you mix up Jab timings and stuff it sort of works like MK's ftilt on shield from Brawl.

 

[DragN]

The first and second hits of our b-air CAN'T be teched for like a full half second~ getting hit by only the first or second hits of Yoshi's b-air is the equivalent of getting footstooled.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Most of us know, the hitstun is pretty dang long.

 

[DragN]

I'm just informing those who didn't know. XD it seemed like YoHeking didn't address the question all the way.....so I just gave ya guys a straight answer.

 

[YoHeKing]

My crew techs it all the time. Somtimes ill do a full hop fair into back air so it only does the first 2 hits and it gets teched. Idk anymore lol

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Just tested and it can be teched. Oh well, but it might still lead to a jank kill regardless.

 

[YoHeKing]

Its kinda hard to tech due to it having a weird fall animation. People dont know how to react to it when it happends in most cases.

 

[DragN]

Ahh....I see. Dang. Well...true it can still be very useful for catching people off guard.

 

[YoHeKing]

Yeah. Even if teched it still could set up reads. I dont see pros teching it anyways.

 

[Egg.]

Well... this Iwata thing sure hit like a bombshell...