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Yoshi Social-20 years of Yoshi's Island!

Sinister Slush

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I honestly think the incredible versatility of Bouncing fish can net kills even if it's stale and thrown out 10+ times a stock.
The real top sheiks that utilize the move like vinnie zero etc. are really ****ing spooky, Sheik is pretty easy to recover with and hard to **** up not getting back to the stage so using BF to try and get any % or even a lucky kill off stage is plausible.
60-40 Sheik feels right honestly.
 

SmashRacer

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Just picked up Yoshi as one of my mains. Man is he fun to play as.
Just a quick question. Do you guys sometimes forget that you have used up your double jump? It happens for me now then and I SDs as a result
 

Dpete

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While I applaud you for going against groupthink, @ Sinister Slush Sinister Slush , it really feels like you are overplaying Yoshi's weaknesses and ignoring his strengths. I'm not going to argue that you're wrong, because I'm sure you have way more experience than me, but I would like to point out most characters would love to be considered in the 15-20 range.

I'm cherry-picking your 15 better characters here, but I can say pretty confidently that Yoshi has at least comparable tools to ROB, even if ROB has better tourney results so far. ROBs disadvantaged state is so ungodly bad, while Yoshi might have one of the best in the game. His safe pressure in neutral is something Yoshi wishes he had. ROB has just as much trouble killing since the Uthrow nerf, and though he has some noteworthy combos his damage output is similar to Yoshi.

I guess my point with this comparison is that other character's mains could come in and make similar comparisons that paint Yoshi in a better light than you have.

Let's face it, this game isn't balanced at the top. The true top tiers have significant advantage over the high tiers, while the distance between the high tiers and mid tiers is not nearly as large. The problem with Yoshi is that some people lump him in the top tier, when clearly he fits in the high or mid tier ambiguity.
 

Sinister Slush

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I'm not the only one who thinks Yoshi isn't good btw. Pretty much all of us agree on it.
Also ROB can just dthrow Uair, that's pretty much what helped holy beat Ally easily lol
bitman being able to beat all of Florida's best tells me a different story on ROB being bad too.
 
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Dpete

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But you're the one yelling it from the rafters, so I chose to address it to you. Anyone else who thinks Yoshi is not good is more than welcome to chime in.

I haven't seen any of those matches, though I do know Holy has been putting in work with ROB. Are videos up of them? Fear the Beep Boop! :D

And my point was not that Yoshi or ROB is better than the other, rather that they have comparable tools and are probably in the same tier, a tier noticeably worse than the top 8-12 characters, but still viable.
 
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Delta-cod

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Just picked up Yoshi as one of my mains. Man is he fun to play as.
Just a quick question. Do you guys sometimes forget that you have used up your double jump? It happens for me now then and I SDs as a result
It happens sometimes, but only very rarely. My advice to you is that, any time you are UNSURE about whether or not you have your jump, try to use it right away. This way you know and don't end up drifting too low thinking you have it to recover with, but actually don't and plummet to your doom.

@ Dpete Dpete While Yoshi isn't "bad" in the grand scheme of things, he's "bad" in comparison to characters that are very viable looking, and are what we'd consider top tier. He struggles against the really great characters, yet people still say Yoshi is great.

Yeah, Yoshi is within top 15 probably, which is GREAT. But that doesn't mean he's an unpunishable ball of favorable hitboxes and godlike frame data like so many people think he is. And I think that's what we're contesting most of the time when we say he's bad. Perhaps the strength of our statements is just a response to the strength of the misconception people have about this character.
 
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RaptorTEC

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I honestly think the incredible versatility of Bouncing fish can net kills even if it's stale and thrown out 10+ times a stock.
The real top sheiks that utilize the move like vinnie zero etc. are really ****ing spooky, Sheik is pretty easy to recover with and hard to **** up not getting back to the stage so using BF to try and get any % or even a lucky kill off stage is plausible.
60-40 Sheik feels right honestly.
Bouncing fish just takes time getting used to. It should only hit out of a combo tbh once you learn how to avoid it. I think 55-45 is possible btw.

Yoshi is good but way overrated I don't think Slush is saying he sucks. I'd say Yoshi is 13th.

Sheik, Diddy, Rosalina, Pikachu
ZSS, Luigi, Ness, Sonic, Villager, Fox,
Mii Brawler, Mario, Yoshi, Falcon, Palutena.
 
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Dpete

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Heh, seems we're all saying the same thing, but with varying degrees of optimism. Yoshi boards: "We're around the 15th best character, it's the end of the world." ROB boards: "Someone put us in the Top 15?!!?!? Party time!!!11!!"

Perhaps the strength of our statements is just a response to the strength of the misconception people have about this character.
Truth.
 
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Delta-cod

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Bouncing fish just takes time getting used to. It should only hit out of a combo tbh once you learn how to avoid it. I think 55-45 is possible btw.

Yoshi is good but way overrated I don't think Slush is saying he sucks. I'd say Yoshi is 13th.

Sheik, Diddy, Rosalina, Pikachu
ZSS, Luigi, Ness, Sonic, Villager, Fox,
Mii Brawler, Mario, Yoshi, Falcon, Palutena.
Pika's not a top tier character and neither is Rosy. >_>

I'd rather see like, Sonic up there, than those two.
 

Sinister Slush

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As much as it pains you and others to see characters up there. It's opinionated and results tier lists for most people.

Sheik Fox Pikachu
ZSS Sonic Luigi Ness Diddy Rosalina
Villager Falcon Wario Mario Yoshi Peach ROB

I don't wanna go into customs territory cause then everything would change outside of Sheik most likely.
 

GSM_Dren

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Since we're all sharing some sort of tier list I'd like to chime in. This is kind of a rough draft and kinda reflects my experience (online/offline) and what I've seen from other tournaments results. Customs on and yoshi around the 14th spot. Ordering could be changed a little bit, but just a gist of who I think is strong atm.

Shiek Rosa Diddy Pikachu
Luigi Sonic Zss Ness Fox
Villager Mario Falcon Mii Brawler Yoshi
Peach/Palutena/Wario/Mega Man/Greninja?

Anyhow there's much more room to move down than up I think. Not gonna change mains anytime soon though, but I also picked up Mii Brawler and he's doing alright for me. :p
 

SoulBoundX

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Previous Thread Title: Yoshidora

So by watching the videos of him playing, how do you guys think this player would hold up in America? Does he look better than the yoshi players we have here? Or do you guys think he gets away with alot because the competition over there just isn't as good. I just want an opinion from you guys. He looks good. What do you think?
 
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Delta-cod

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Merged with the social thread.

I think he would fare about as well as the best American Yoshis do. I don't think he's especially better than Raptor, and I'm not sure how he stacks up to Slush/Slice, either.

But I'm pretty cynical. I don't tend to buy into foreign players much until they come here and show their stuff. =P
 

AirJay

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Anyone have any tips on how to handle DHD i got double eliminated by one Its just so many projectiles :(
 
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Their projectiles only work in a straight line really. Stay out of that range and throw eggs a lot and find an opportunity to get close. Just don't rush it. They're like us at kill % and can't kill someone in shield until ~200% abuse this. Platform stages hinder our projectile game more than theirs.
 
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Sinister Slush

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Realize that a good portion of characters that're camp oriented (ROB DHD Link Olimar etc.) we can wisp through half their stuff and camp even better than them due to versatility of our eggs or punish during the end lag of their moves.

Also Yoshidora is alright I guess, he's exclusively online though and I doubt he'll ever travel out of japan. Same for Aiba who's in the ok range too.
Not saying American Yoshi's are better, but I made a post in the CCI thread many months back where people put Japan on a pedestal for some reason. Yeah Japan/Chinese/Korea tend to put more work and effort into the games they play, but they're not always the ones on top.

In terms of smash, we've actually shown in both melee and brawl that we're top of the table. Although APEX 2012, while we lost that, made people buckle down and made brawl evolve (in terms of MK playstyle at least lololol)
Yoshidora and Aiba play on a total of 3 stages with FD being their most common, they play extremely patient and use lots of eggs to wait for hit confirms to get a string going, if they feel like approaching they just do SHAD Nair or anything out of it. It's an interesting slow paced style, but it barely works as people can see from all their recent videos the past month or two being them losing.


A new Yoshi popped up though that actually won against someone decent named DIO, funny enough the decent player is Brood's DHD.
So maybe there's a 3rd contender over there for being a decent Yoshi now, since there's actually been 6 or so different Yoshi's on their channel and most of been meh and Yoshidora/aiba basically.
 

Steam

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Greetings, inferior character boards! The evil lucario empire is now discussing the yoshi matchup in this thread. Come have fun discussing the lucario matchup with a band of villainous furries!
 
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YoHeKing

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So I played this sheik on anthers ladder. He was really good but i beat him and i asked him if he ever has trouble with yoshi. He said "No I beat the worlds best yoshi all the time". I asked him whos the best yoshi and he said reptile.
Game 2 funny thing is game 1 was almost not laggy at all but torwards the end of game 2 I was at 0% and he was at 112% at smashville. Random lagg came in and he brought the game even. After the lag stoped I KO'd him...

IDK who this sheik player is. I did end up beating him 2-0 and he suposably beats reptile alot. His tag was like Curse26 or somthing.


Also I think Yoshi has the potential to dominate and be top tier but we wont get results for awhile. Melee it took like 10 years to get results. ZeRo also thinks a Yoshi player is gonna dominate everyone.
 
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Sinister Slush

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Zero thinks a lot of characters is going to dominate.
His vids are clickbait, and his opinions are very silly. His most recent clickbait video is "Shulk the best character in smash?"

Never heard of Curse, I'm sure the sheik boards haven't either.
We never heard of Reptile unless he means Raptor and he has extreme dyslexia.
 

YoHeKing

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I have a habit of calling reptor reptile lmao...

Anyways ZeRos correct in alot of things. ESAM is dominating with pika lately.


Also I fought a kirby that knows you and he gets beat by you sinister slush. I gave him some tips and stuff.
 
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Sinister Slush

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Anyways ZeRos correct in alot of things. ESAM is dominating with pika lately.
wut
I don't udderstand.


Also I fought a kirby that knows you and he gets beat by you sinister slush. I gave him some tips and stuff.
Is it KO?
Gahdamn we've played at all 3 weeklies I've attended already this season. He's good and we go to game 3 everytime, tho kirby is hard to hit and deal with.
Other time was DK on Battlefield, BF is so gud fer him.
 

YoHeKing

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wut
I don't udderstand.



Is it KO?
Gahdamn we've played at all 3 weeklies I've attended already this season. He's good and we go to game 3 every time, tho kirby is hard to hit and deal with.
Other time was DK on Battlefield, BF is so gud fer him.
Excuse my lame grammar lmao. ZeRo said Pikachu will dominate someday and ESAM is doing great with Pikachu. He lost only 1 game in aftershock.

Anyways yeah it was KO. I played him on the ladder and took games off him quick. I gave him some tips to fight against Yoshi. Anyways yeah hopefully he gets a bit better. Ive noticed a few unfair things in the MU though. Every time he was in the air i would spam up smash and he couldn't get away from it. I saw some of your guy's battles to. And I always ban lylat and battlefield because in my opinion Yoshi stinks there. Also watch out when Kirbys choose the sunshine stage. Theres some insane tactics kirby players can use.
 

Sinister Slush

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Not really, no. ESAM is the only player, but saying "pikachu is doing good cuz esam" is like someone thinking they're smart or original for saying the sky is blue.
 
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YoHeKing

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Not really, no. ESAM is the only player, but saying "pikachu is doing good cuz esam" is like someone thinking they're smart or original for saying the sky is blue.
true... But pikachu is pretty complex. He definitely has the potential to dominate especially with customs. I have seen the pikachu meta going up though in tourneys.

Remember smash4 is new. We could see wii fit trainer dominating in the future.
 

Delta-cod

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That's all fine, but I'm tired of seeing things like "XYZ is dominating, look at its one sole player!"

One player doing well with a character is not dominance. Diddy has(had?) dominance. Sheik has dominance.

These characters might be good, but they're not the "omg top tier look at the one player who does amazingly with them!>!>!?!?!?!?1111". I want to see widespread destruction by my dominant top tiers. None of this weak sauce.
 

Sinister Slush

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true... But pikachu is pretty complex.
Pikachu is about as complex as breathing.

Also Smash 4 isn't new, in this day and age where people dissect things to the most minute molecule, these leaks of Roy/Ryu (which was shown months back, like I think when 3ds only was out still) is a good example of what I mean.
We tear into games and get data as fast as ever compared to the melee and brawl days.
 

YoHeKing

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Yeah. Ryu and roy was so hype i couldnt sleep at all last night.

But still it might take awhile for stuff to advance in sm4sh. Updates are still coming and new stuff is being discovored. Theres defenetly no Yoshi atm who really pushes to his limits of what Yoshi can do. Im just saying anythings possible in the future and the meta is still evolving. Evolving fast that is.


Anyways any one of you guys have trouble using edgetrumps with yoshi? I find the timing really really crazy with the fast fall version of it. Ive been using alot of edge trumping with yoshis down B and yoshis back crawl into up b.


This is what curse said.
 

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Zajice

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Pikachu is about as complex as breathing.
C'mon now, he's definitely more complex than the faceroll controller top tiers. If he wasn't, there would be more than one person playing him at high level. Even some basic ATs make you SD if you **** them up. I practiced ledge canceling QAs for I don't even know how long and still kill myself doing it sometimes.

Granted, he's probably not one of the hardest characters to learn. I just wouldn't label him as toddler tier easy.
 

YoHeKing

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C'mon now, he's definitely more complex than the faceroll controller top tiers. If he wasn't, there would be more than one person playing him at high level. Even some basic ATs make you SD if you **** them up. I practiced ledge canceling QAs for I don't even know how long and still kill myself doing it sometimes.

Granted, he's probably not one of the hardest characters to learn. I just wouldn't label him as toddler tier easy.
Yeah. Hes one of those characters i need to learn from myself and the internet. Then go practice alot of his stuff in training mode. Also of his combos involve ALOT of knowing pikas hitboxes and reading DI.
 

Sinister Slush

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Banjo-kazooie never...
This is what curse said.
Tbh it doesn't matter if some yoshi players have decent wins, they don't have decent results or any publicity. Along with honestly not much untapped power to pull outta him unless they help tweak some moves that desperately need it.

That's the main issue with Yoshi tho, no big results. Decent wins is fine, but if they don't turn into high top 8 or so results it's barely worth mentioning and will be tossed away into the sea of obscurity.

C'mon now, he's definitely more complex than the faceroll controller top tiers. If he wasn't, there would be more than one person playing him at high level.

Granted, he's probably not one of the hardest characters to learn. I just wouldn't label him as toddler tier easy.
Funny, scrubs and other actual mid/top level players say the same thing with Yoshi. Yet nothing about it is right.

Though toddler tier belongs to Luigi, some work needed but still pretty faceroll belongs to sheik pika diddy and fox.
 

YoHeKing

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Yoshi is good. Theres plenty of things that yoshi users need more of. Down B edge guarding is a thing ive been working on. Its really great for going for an edge trump right after a unsuccessfull edguard. In fact aMSa did it in melee but obviously it was alot easier.
 

RaptorTEC

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This is what curse said.
Now I need to know who this guy is lol I think he's full of it lol.

Banjo-kazooie never...

Tbh it doesn't matter if some yoshi players have decent wins, they don't have decent results or any publicity. Along with honestly not much untapped power to pull outta him unless they help tweak some moves that desperately need it.

That's the main issue with Yoshi tho, no big results. Decent wins is fine, but if they don't turn into high top 8 or so results it's barely worth mentioning and will be tossed away into the sea of obscurity.


Funny, scrubs and other actual mid/top level players say the same thing with Yoshi. Yet nothing about it is right.

Though toddler tier belongs to Luigi, some work needed but still pretty faceroll belongs to sheik pika diddy and fox.
What do you have against Banjo Kazooie?

I place well and get decent wins consistently as of recent btw. Its not nonexistent. Although, I do feel like Yoshi has potential to do better atm. We need to step our game up
 
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