Yoshi Social-20 years of Yoshi's Island!

[AirJay]

This may be old news to some of you but i havent seen it anywhere so i thought i would make a video on it. Yoshi's 4th egg when jump cancelled gives him way more height than the other three

http://youtu.be/eFGtk8oaF28

 

[Sinister Slush]

k so 4th egg and so on we can jump cancel rly high
now to only ever recover with three egg tosses while holding jump

 

[Airborne]

This may be old news to some of you but i havent seen it anywhere so i thought i would make a video on it. Yoshi's 4th egg when jump cancelled gives him way more height than the other three

http://youtu.be/eFGtk8oaF28

It looks like that's only occurring because Egg Toss no longer affects momentum after the 3-4 aerial uses, so you're simply just riding off of the momentum of the double jump.

 

[AirJay]

oh well thanks for clearing that up I just found it to be weird that yoshi can do that I dont know if it will be useful or not but its still cool

 

[Airborne]

Oh, I do think it will be useful. As far as I know, it's the first time in any smash game that we're able to egg toss while retaining the vertical momentum from our double jump.

 

[AirJay]

It works better on regular battlefield if someone is at high percent and is under a platform if you JC egg toss from the ledge and aim the egg at them it will pop them up over the platform and yoshi will land on top of it and it will combo into upsmash

 

[Z'zgashi]

k so 4th egg and so on we can jump cancel rly high
now to only ever recover with three egg tosses while holding jump

Thats honestly not too hard to do if you DI up when knocked offstage

 

[Scarlet Jile]

The more I play Yoshi, the more I feel like he is going to drop in the tier list.

He relies so heavily on gimmicks and unexpected conversions that anyone can play him right now and get results, kind of like a less reliable Diddy. I think once his bag of tricks is exposed and people learn the matchup, he is going to lose to good fundamentals on more characters. I hate to say it, but right now, Yoshi doesn't need fundamentals to win games--he just needs to mash buttons and convert out of his jabs. The more Yoshis I encounter in dittos, the less I appreciate the character's skill curve.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Sounds about right.

Anyone, or rather everyone, who doesn't know how to fight Yoshi will lose. He's a scrub beater.
Fighting the Yoshi ditto didn't feel like a skill MU, it felt like whoever slammed their face against the buttons first won the trade. I feel like I could've kept going in bracket during the National I was at last weekend if not for finally running into 1. Diddy Kong and 2. Sheik.

All it takes to win against Yoshi is either the person actually knows how to fight against him (next to nobody) or they just need to play a better character. Most of my losses since the games release has been the top tiers or around that area.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I mean, don't get me wrong, he's got great tools and he's a solid character that will never drop below upper mid. But I do kind of feel like you can win some games right now by headbutting your controller.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I prefer the term throwing controller against wall and winning.

 

[lolreconlol]

Ugh, I'm pretty discouraged with Yoshi. Thought mine was good - went to a few weeklies and got whipped pretty bad - mainly by the fast characters. I feel like just about anybody can beat my Yoshi lately..

 

[Nikes]

Top tiers will shoot down your confidence just like that. We just need to learn the MUs more wheras they practically don't have to because their options aren't really affected by us.
Also is he really that gimmicky? Doesn't need fundamentals to win games? He relies on less gimicks in this game than ever before and having good fundamentals improves your core game without the need for gimmicky stuff. He doesn't have autopilot stuff that wins games against good players.

 

[Delta-cod]

I see people getting gimmicked HARD by Yoshi's SH egg game. Like, every time Yoshi jumps, the opponent should be approaching us. Our aerials aren't even that good. Fair isn't that good. Jumping should mean punishment for us.

This, combined with our nerfed pivot grab (and dash grab, I think), means our approach venues are terrible. We were never really meant to approach in the air anyways (coming from Brawl), but we can't wall people out from the ground anymore either (pivot grab sucks now).

 

[Yikarur]

Me, Slush and Scatz have said that from the beginning. Yoshi has lots of problems.
The more I play against people who know the Match-up the more I think Yoshi will drop to mid tier some day.

I hate how overrated Yoshi is. He destroys bad players but he becomes pretty useless at a specific Skill Level.
No way too reliably approach and no real way to force people to approach = terrible
You can always just swift in and out and hope for an opponent's mistake but you have no real way to force a mistake.
You can never apply pressure because everything we do has giant holes, you should always get punished for every try.
Our neutral game is bad. Our grabs have no reward and we heavily rely on egg lay which's reward is to basically reset to neutral again and we are bad at that.

I really see a bad future for my beloved character and I have no idea how to outweight Yoshis flaws. I'm working on it because I don't want this to end like that but I really have no idea how to do that.

 

[Delta-cod]

I'm preeeeeeeetty sure we need some Egg Launch love in our life to become even a little better. The fact that Egg Lay has a dumb amount of startup just removes another one of our options, essentially. We can't float around shields and then pressure with Egg Lay, since it's really easy to just swat us away since everything but Nair has startup, and Nair's range isn't even that good. Plus, if it gets shielded, you're screwed anyways.

 

[Saikyoshi]

And here I am still just wondering "duuuuh, whut is combo? how aproach?", so I'm not even a scrub-beater. I'm more a scrub's punching bag.

I'm pathetic.

 

[Delta-cod]

Yoshi's still not an intuitive character when compared to the others, so don't beat yourself up too much. It could even be likely that you're suffering from Yoshi's flaws already.

 

[db132]

Yeah, I've come to most of the same realizations as well at the above posts, especially when going against extreme rushdown being used against me by players who know the matchup better than I do, it's like the entire match becomes hopeless because the opposing player punishes everything I try to employ. I pretty much only beat people who don't know the matchup and allow me to combo and set up things I shouldn't be able to do or people who use slow bulky characters like DK and such nowadays.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

WTB Pivot Grab

 

[Saikyoshi]

Yoshi's still not an intuitive character when compared to the others, so don't beat yourself up too much. It could even be likely that you're suffering from Yoshi's flaws already.

I don't think that's the case. I regularly go up against other Yoshies who perform, to say the least, stellar. Able to flawlessly approach, land every Fair, pseudo-chaingrab into oblivion, combo into Usmash or Uair....

I know Yoshi's not the best character. But I'm upset that I'm pathetic by Yoshi standards.

 

[GSM_Dren]

I still firmly believe yoshi is within the top 10, as he easily goes + against most of the cast. Sheik, sonic, diddy, and zss are among Yoshi's worser matchups. While with the rest of the high tiers, yoshi goes somewhat even with (Ness, pika, luigi, rosa, fox, Capt).

He is not a gimmicky character by any means nor does he faceroll the controller to win matches. Yes, the problem is once a player learns the matchup it becomes exponentially harder to play against them, but isn't that true for all characters? Yoshi at the moment does not have enough representation at tournaments and its a shame when I watch players who use yoshi but never bother to egg lay or egg toss, and instead only usmash spam fish, bleh.

Egg launch is proving itself to be yoshi's best custom, where egg lay isn't cutting it against smart players. It has faster startup and has the ability to give immense stage control by launching opponents off to the abyss.

Yoshi does have his shortcomings, but that's why we all need to work together and motivate each other to get Yoshi the recognition he deserves.

 

[Sinister Slush]

You make it seem like you and baddies are the only one attending tournaments.

I find it more funny some random plays against EE (whoever that random is) on leddit and now everyone boasting how egg launch our best custom all of a sudden when most of us were on the Lick train.
Should also mention not many places have customs legal just yet, my state being one of them. They will eventually for smaller tournaments like our weeklies maybe, but it will absolutely never go into regionals/nationals over here.

 

[Delta-cod]

WTB Pivot Grab

Huh?

I don't think that's the case. I regularly go up against other Yoshies who perform, to say the least, stellar. Able to flawlessly approach, land every Fair, pseudo-chaingrab into oblivion, combo into Usmash or Uair....

I know Yoshi's not the best character. But I'm upset that I'm pathetic by Yoshi standards.

Well, keep your head up! Smash fundamentals aren't necessarily easy to learn, and maybe you should start there. Don't worry about Yoshi specific stuff if your neutral game fundamentals aren't cutting it.

You make it seem like you and baddies are the only one attending tournaments.

I find it more funny some random plays against EE (whoever that random is) on leddit and now everyone boasting how egg launch our best custom all of a sudden when most of us were on the Lick train.
Should also mention not many places have customs legal just yet, my state being one of them. They will eventually for smaller tournaments like our weeklies maybe, but it will absolutely never go into regionals/nationals over here.

That person was @Steinway, I believe.

I never had an opinion on Yoshi's customs, but seeing just how drastic Egg Launch was, in combination with its BETTER FRAME DATA and being a COMMAND GRAB makes it pretty friggin good.

 

[Sinister Slush]

The only better frame data is basically start up being pre nerf because they completely forgot to change that too.
Otherwise since it's basically Egg lay but fires them offstage instead it would be better to use in some match-ups just like Lick maybe.

 

[Delta-cod]

Lick isn't a command grab.

Regardless of the reason for the better frame data, it still has better frame data which makes it more reliable which makes it a better option. I find it amusing that people can CLAIM THE STAGE while in Egg Lay. They can't do that with Launch.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Lick is a hard hitting move and gives us more wonky mobility to up our already pathetic approach game as long as they don't shield it.

Not saying Egg launch isn't good, just saying it's just our old command grab pre nerf. I really dunno why Yoshi got any nerfs at all, only idea for it being japanese for glory influencing Nintendo to mess around with his stuff.

 

[Yikarur]

Our command grab is necessary imo. I love lick but I really think we should not abadon the command grab. Egg Launch is really awesome.

 

[GSM_Dren]

You make it seem like you and baddies are the only one attending tournaments.

I find it more funny some random plays against EE (whoever that random is) on leddit and now everyone boasting how egg launch our best custom all of a sudden when most of us were on the Lick train.
Should also mention not many places have customs legal just yet, my state being one of them. They will eventually for smaller tournaments like our weeklies maybe, but it will absolutely never go into regionals/nationals over here.

I'm not referring to myself or baddies attending to tournaments, I'm referring to Yoshis whose matches gets streamed. Its difficult to find any footage of a Yoshi in action at a tournament since he isn't as popular as the other characters. Matches that I do find are littered with Yoshis who are not utilizing all their options effectively, and just fish them Usmashes.

Egg launch and lick are seriously the only two customs worth considering for Yoshi in tournament play. I was never on the lick train and while it is a kill move, it means Yoshi has to commit to that forward movement. Its also more difficult to actually hit the opponent, and I usually overshooting whenever I try it.

Our command grab is necessary imo. I love lick but I really think we should not abadon the command grab. Egg Launch is really awesome.

I agree, catching opponents in shield with either egg lay/launch just way too good to pass up over lick.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Lick is a hard hitting move and gives us more wonky mobility to up our already pathetic approach game as long as they don't shield it.

Not saying Egg launch isn't good, just saying it's just our old command grab pre nerf. I really dunno why Yoshi got any nerfs at all, only idea for it being japanese for glory influencing Nintendo to mess around with his stuff.

Well, Yoshi WAS considered near the top of the top tier at first. He was above even Rosalina.

 

[Sinister Slush]

So was bowser during the Demo.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Tbh Rosalina is super overrated, only Rosy that places well is on a National level is Dabuz but thats mostly due to him being a good player and not the character. Imo Rosy isnt a top 5 character in the slightest, prob more like near the bottom of top 10.

 

[Nikes]

^ Maybe so but she has stuff like this: https://gfycat.com/BronzeOddAnole

 

[Saikyoshi]

As much as I despise Rosalina (irrationally), I might have to take her up as a pocket to fill the void left.

T'ain't fair.

 

[Sinister Slush]

That Uair with rage can kill at 0% from a ledge drop DJ u-air.
It's not the only one either, I've seen other vids and such but only one I can remember outside of Rosalina is ZSS upb and Ike upB behind him.

 

[Z'zgashi]

A lot of characters can do stuff like that due to rage, not only Rosy. I mean, bull**** stuff like this exists https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGAL38jDnLU

This game is so dumb sometimes, and I find it hilarious

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Okay, let's just take a moment and acknowledge the VAST difference between a 20% upair kill on a fairly heavy character and a 140% rage up-B kill with an extremely situational gimmick that was mostly the Ness's fault for jumping into.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I wasnt trying to compare the stupidity (obv Rosy's is WAY better) so much as just show a funny little quirk I ran into with the context of this game has dumb **** in it lol.

 

[i like math 123]

Hi everyone! I'm a new player and I'm going to my first tournament next Saturday (~40-50 people). I'll be repping Yoshi, and will probably use Sheik as a secondary.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Good luck.