Yoshi Matchup Thread

[Ryusuta]

Yes, but you can chain grab and gimp Wolfs pretty easily, so that must make you feel better, right?

(Also, 1,000th reply, hehe!)

 

[Kiwikomix]

Dammit, I wanted the 1000th post.

 

[Mmac]

Yes, but you can chain grab and gimp Wolfs pretty easily, so that must make you feel better, right?

(Also, 1,000th reply, hehe!)

That would help, if I could get the chaingrab to work.....

Dammit, I wanted the 1000th post.

I thought I got it... but I didn't even notice

 

[Chaco]

@Mmac:

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2740510

 

[Deleted member]

Ok, just got back from a tourny, some matchup observations:

Olimar: I got lots of olimar practice today. Heres what i learned: Bairs are great pressure tools, but they can be pivot grabbed sometimes. If you bair his shield u get grabbed also if its not weakened. Grabs are really important in this matchup, help get him in the air. Olimar has like no priority on any pikmen moves except uair, just range, so most of your moves will beat his. His neutral air is annoying. Lol

Diddy: VERY VERY ANNOYING!

Lucas: Is kinda annoying, but its our favor. 5.5-4.5 i tinkz. Lucas's camping is kinda annoying but dont rush past it, else ull eat an fsmash. Chaingrabs are fun.

Peach: I played edrees in friendlies, who is 8th in socal power rankings, and probably the best peach in california. I got destroyed. I almost won first match, cuz i got a lucky spike-> edgehog, but still, it was crazy. At low percents, peach gets 3 dairs. Then, dair to dair to uair to nair(if u dodge the uair u get naired). Peachs dair is probably the craziest move ever. Peachs fair is also too good, and her ftilt beats your bair =( Im not gonna judge the matchup, except for that its in peaches favor, because edrees was much better than me, and was readin me like a book.

Uhh thats it, my amazing matchup obsevations. =D

I got 7th in the tourny =P.

 

[Ryusuta]

Diddy: VERY VERY ANNOYING!

Yes, this. Oh, GOD, this.

Diddy is the single most irritating match-up in the game for me (not just with Yoshi, but with just about anyone), and one of my worst. This is especially true because I play online a lot, so I have a harder time picking up those FREAKING bananas.

 

[bigman40]

Diddy is fun to play against.....Till you can't touch the ground anymore >_< I have constant Diddy practice from my friend. So, I mostly always know what to do against them. (funny I haven't used the CG release on him yet, and we still go even).

 

[Jump_Man]

Okay, why the hell do we have an advantage on Olimar!? We can't approach him because his grab and aerials are winz. Egg roll is destroyed by his grab. Bair is countered too. his aerials can mess Yoshi up, and his USmash kills him at low percentage. Someone once KOd me when I was at 100% with that thing

Why do we have the advanage again?

 

[Shiri]

Okay, I'm probably wrong on 100% of all these points, but I'm going to post this.

Mostly because I don't like seeing the same issues raised over and over. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

How to Egg Roll Properly Versus Captain Olimar

Step One A: Make sure Captain Olimar is in the air.
Step One B: Make sure Captain Olimar is lying on the ground from a missed tech or during a tech roll.

Step Two: Egg Roll, if you wish.

Step Three: You're done.

A Detailed Explanation: You can Egg Roll safely against Captain Olimar when he is in either of the two states mentioned above. While in the air, the only attack that can beat Egg Roll is, from my experience, a direct-on-the-top strike with his down aerial. Other than that, Olimar's feeble attempts to break your Egg Roll will tie, at best. During a tech roll, Olimar is quite vulnerable, although lucky powershields may save him on the getup if the frames line up. Do not Egg Roll Captain Olimar if he is tech rolling toward an edge.

How to Strike With Dangerous Chinese Delicacies: When you attempt to Egg Roll Captain Olimar in the air, there are a few considerations you have to make. You need to visually confirm that the stage will allow you to do Egg Roll first (is the stage moving, will the stage spawn some obstacles, are there any hazards, etc.). Next, you need to confirm Yoshi's distance from Captain Olimar. You also need to detect how high Olimar is from the ground, how high the Egg Roll hits, Olimar's falling speed, and what you can do if things suddenly go awry. When Captain Olimar is tech rolling, you need to watch for which direction he's rolling in (of course), and THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT! YOU MUST DETERMINE HOW FAR AWAY FROM THE EDGE HE WILL BE IF HE WERE TO SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETE HIS TECH ROLL. A rule of thumb to go by is that if Captain Olimar is less than two and a half Yoshi body lengths (measured as Yoshi standing upright) away from the edge, YOU SHOULD NOT ATTEMPT TO EGG ROLL.

Now, with all the confirmations and calculations out of the way, you can commence rolling eggs. Assuming you have landed your first successful hit, there are just a few more calculations you need to make. Olimar has been sent into the air. How far up is he? How much room do you have to turn around? Is it even safe to turn around or should you stop the attack right here? The rule of thumb here is that if you can estimate getting to hit Olimar again between the time when he completely hits the ground and the time when he can space any aerial swing at maximum distance and connect, you are good to go, as this is an optimal circumstance. If you think Captain Olimar may be able to follow up with an aerial, but you know for sure that you can get to him before he hits the ground, proceed with caution. If you have any doubts about getting to Captain Olimar before he hits the ground, DO NOT FOLLOW THROUGH.

Ways Captain Olimar Can Stop the Gay: Also known as defensive options. First and foremost, when Captain Olimar is in the air and you are eying the Egg Roll, consider his airdodge. This is a win-win, situation for the both of you, as Captain Olimar will not get hit and you will get to reset. Pursuit is highly discouraged at this point unless the Olimar player enjoys retreating short hops out of airdodge landings. This trait is rare, but can be most commonly found in playstyles involving heavy aerial Pikmin throwing when the player feels under pressure. Another defensive option Captain Olimar has is attempting to tie or beat the Egg Roll with aerials (if he is in the air, of course >_>). When Captain Olimar ties with the Egg Roll, Yoshi will come to an immediate and lagless halt while Captain Olimar completes his swing. This is your opportunity to do, quite literally, whatever you want. Recommendations include jabs, standing grabs (judge the distance intelligently), pivot grabs, up tilts, or simply running away. If Captain Olimar managed to stop the Egg Roll while you are facing away from him, you may want to consider turnaround forward tilts, turnaround down tilts, or running away. In this position, Yoshi is often too far away to perform anything else safely. The final option is the most disadvantageous for Yoshi; the lucky powershield. Lucky powershields occur very close to the body in the cases where it would happen here, so you stand a very low risk of getting grabbed, but suffer a proportionally high risk of getting downsmashed or having Pikmin tossed at you. Even if the attacks tie, you are in a bad spot facing backwards and a considerable distance away, so be smart with your options. If you get powershielded (misjudged Olimar's fallspeed, his height from the ground, or your roll speed, etc.), your first and only priority is to get as far away as you can from him. Period.

How Yoshi Can Use the Gay: The general idea of Egg Roll in this matchup is to perform it in such a way where retaliation from the opponent is minimal and leaves you at absolute minimum risk while putting the enemy into extremely uncomfortable positions with few viable options. One of the most important parts of knowing how to use Egg Roll is knowing when to stop using it. After a successful hit, you will want to keep rolling in the same direction for a distance such that aerial retaliation will not connect when the enemy comes out of stun. Ideally, you will want to be just outside of maximum range to bait swings and then Egg Roll back into the enemy during the lag on their attack. Enemies will not always blindy swing, however, and should be approached cautiously during your turnaround in the egg. If you choose to stop the Egg Roll at any point, make sure you are a considerable distance away. If you have doubts about the safe points of a roll sequence on a smaller stage, you can feel free to Egg Roll for one guaranteed hit (or a hit you feel will be guaranteed) and continue rolling in the same direction until you must release to avoid falling off the stage or allowing the enemy too much time to set up. Stopping under platforms is a boon and rolling past spawning obstacles can help as well. In the rare situation that you may be cornered, do not hesitate to consider Egg Roll as a viable GTFO option to escape to the other side of a stage.

I hope this was accurate and helpful. I probably forgot one or two things while I was on the few tangents that I couldn't help but succumb to. If I do remember something I didn't mention, I'll post later. I hope the information was fairly intuitive and that nothing was overly confusing. If you don't like my wording or think that I may have conveyed something incorrectly, please let me know and I will fix it as soon as I can. I would like for this to be a resource for people to stop asking the same questions over and over while others have to constantly answer those questions each time they are brought forth.

 

[Deleted member]

...awesome

 

[Scala]

B->dsmash vs olimar is the win button.

 

[Shiri]

It's a very good way to drain him of his Pikmin and to refresh some of your other moves as well. ^_^

It can be kinda frustrating for Olimar players when opponents target his Pikmin instead of himself (in which case he can use Pikmin as his sword and shield).

Are there any moves that be used out of a throw to maul Pikmin? I'm thinking down throw specifically here, since I don't use it in any other matchup, really.

 

[.Marik]

Yeah, Olimar's Pikmin spamming really screws Yoshi over... especially his aerials... but usually, I take a few hits, and smash him, or even better yet, I just egg-roll.

And no, I didn't read all of that information, due to me thinking I already have the basics. =P

And you guys post here so much! It's hard to keep up sometimes! xDDD

 

[Deleted member]

I would suggest it, even for tournament players, some of that info is a great refresher of memory, and some stuff i didnt know.

 

[Shiri]

Also, I didn't post it, but watch out for Olimar's whistle; treat it as a powershield on his part.

 

[Deleted member]

Agg its quite annoying, good olimars make it hard to kill them, they just whistle kill moves! Fsmash at 150%? Whistled, then u get fsmashed yourself. Uair kill? whistle, no knockback.

 

[Naucitos]

IIRC, bair plows through almost if not all pikmin related attacks, no? unless it was just smashes

 

[Kress]

.___. People, this thread is starting to become a "chat" little by little. Let's focus on ONE character, then we can move on to the other charater :S.
Also, let's try to avoid useless messages, If someone wants to contact someone else to play the matchup, use MPs.
And besides, dont just say stuff wihout arguments. Stuff like "Yoshi's aerial game is better than luigi's", but nothing else...
This is for making it easier to organize the information.

:D

 

[.Marik]

Well, this is a general chat about Yoshi, and well, just some helpful hints for us Yoshi mainers.

And Kress, I love your avatar! :D

It's awesome.

 

[Kiwikomix]

.___. People, this thread is starting to become a "chat" little by little. Let's focus on ONE character, then we can move on to the other charater :S.

Normally this would be a problem, but I save everything relevant to each character in a Word document. It all goes into the analysis, so nothing really gets lost.

 

[Bwett]

Plus we're a family, and families communicate and gossip and all that jazz...unless you don't won't to be a family....do you. kress?!?!?! lol

 

[Mmac]

We should get back on characters.

On Peach, I still don't think she's that hard. I highly doubt she can get a FIVE STRAIGHT Dair's to Uair to Nair combo on you. I've always escaped on the first Dair against all the Peach's I've played. I also noticed that she is far more vulnerable floating when against Yoshi. Egg's are a great Anti-Float, while Low floats are countered with Pivot Grabs, and Hight Floats are vulnerable to Usmashing. Air's are quite annoying though, but Yoshi can still get in just fine. It's sometimes hard to attack a grounded Peach as her moves deal with the air really well. When she's over the edge, she's pretty much egg bait due to her slow and floaty (literary) air movement. Physical interception works well also after her Float is gone (Which is rather easy to remove), though watch that Umbrella!

I also think ROB is slightly harder than listed

 

[Kress]

I'd like to say something inteligent on peach, but I've never faced many peahces (It just sounds funny XD)
._. no peaches in chile, but we do have oranges (Lol!)

Anyway, of the few peachs I've fought with, I never had a hard time. In fact, breaking the float with an egg or an upsmash it's pretty easy, you just need to look like if you were to get hit :D. Its kinda risked, but I also like to short hop and egg lay (yeah, very risky) floating peaches, they never read it and the just try to Nair :D.

And there is a chat for yoshi mainers, but Im not sure wich was the page .__.

Cyas!

 

[Deleted member]

IF i said 5 dairs in a row i didnt mean it. Its was 2 or 3 dairs to uair and if u airdodge the uair u get naired. I wont say anything else on peach, ive played bone and edrees and had a very tough time with both of them. I dont really know what the matchup should be, all i know is what peach does to yoshi and what i can do back.

 

[Mmac]

I still don't get how you were locked in her Dair's.

 

[Scala]

she has to be using dair while floating in order to lock you in.

 

[Gindler]

I always get locked in, and her shield pressure with that is insane. If you roll away you get faired, if you roll behind her you get baired, if you stay in your shield it's getting blacker by the second. So not many options, then again I'm just horrible against peach as I've fought one and only one good one (kei kei, rather unknown but monsterous none-the-less). Again, I'm aggressive and have a very limited defensive game, and combined with yoshi's lack of a good defensive game that's not a good combo...

But yeah, in this matchup I get first hand experience on how bad yoshi's shield game is...

 

[Shiri]

She really can't "lock" you into anything. You need to proactively DI against characters like her and Sheik.

There are a few creative ways to get around down air. It's pretty good, but some people get too intimidated by it, I think. This technique I've found works if the Peach is hitting the top or near the top of your shield and you anticipate multiple down airs in a row. If you get caught in shield, you can spotdodge immediately after the second kick out of the four. Hold down. Once your spotdodge is done, Peach will be in the lag between her first down aerial and the moment when she can perform her second down aerial. If you're holding down at this point, Yoshi will duck before she can start the second down aerial.

At this point, you can begin crawling away immediately after you hit crouching position or you can try to time an upsmash once the other down aerial is done. If Peach sees that you're ducking, she might just drop float in order to hit you, so crawling away may be a good idea, but if they're stubborn or slow, you can take the opportunity to upsmash.

I say upsmash because not only is it the most optimal move for the situation, but it's great for spamming in this matchup. I never worry about upsmash decay because I don't use it to KO in this matchup, but that's just my style, I guess. I use upsmash very liberally; below 15% it can combo into itself and at 7% it can combo into itself twice, so I use it to rack up damage as soon as possible. I think one of the best ways to meet Peach head-on is to outdamage her from the get-go before she can start setting up on you.

 

[Deleted member]

Sounds pretty tricky, to dodge after the second kick lol. Unless u mean second dair. Ill try it!
Yea usmash rawks in this matchup, its good in most situations against an aerial peach. What do u do against campy peaches(not super campy, just kinda passive agressive turnip throwing people).

 

[Sharky]

The turnips are easy enough to catch, I'd say do that and go with a egg/turnip combination approach. Not to mention eggs are faster than turnips, no contest.

 

[Kress]

Oh yeah, now that you mention turnips, you have to be EXTREMELLY CAREFULL ifn peach gets a beam sword. If she does, you're screwed, one word: Range.
It will most likely outrange you and you'll have to start spamming eggs, sadly, a Ftilt Beam Sword breaks the eggs (I'mk not quite sure, but I think it does <_<)

 

[Sharky]

Most likely does. >_>

I'd say egg spam or very careful defensive play are the only ways out of that one. =/

Speaking of peach items, I had a hilarious match the other day on wifi. I made an awesome edgeguard on the peach. She comes back, does a "Nice!" taunt, and then proceeds to pull out a bob-omb and blow me away. Twas full of awesome XD

 

[Mmac]

You can just Bair your way through just like Samus Missile Spammers. Though pull back if she pulls out a Zombie/Bob-omb.

Beam Swords still give me nightmares ;_ ;

 

[Deleted member]

Beam sword is bad. Its pretty laggy.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

lawl beam sword?
If peach is on the ground just dodge the **** thing, I'd be more worried about her throwing it, I mean Ike has Range, big whoop de doo =P

 

[Afropony]

it'd be really good if on the front of this thread it shows what page to go to if you want to learn about a character...

 

[chimpact]

Hold on, peach can get a BEAM SWORD? I thought that she only got Bombs, Mr. Saturn, and Turnips with no items and set to off? IF that's true it is ridiculous. Beam Sword edgeguard KO ftl.

With this matchup I like to spam eggs since all peach seems to do is use her floating Dair and eggs are perfect against Aerial opponents. Use some short thrown eggs to grabs if they run up to you. And BAIR! Best yoshi move... For some reason the only KO move I can get on peach is Usmash at really high % cause of decay and Nair when Peach is trying to recover. I can never get a Fair/Dair spike.

 

[Mmac]

Ok, we REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY need to get organized again.

We might need to make a separate thread for Character discussions

 

[Kress]

Ok, we REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY need to get organized again.

We might need to make a separate thread for Character discussions

Told ya

But, why separate threads? Isn't this one just fine?

 

[Mmac]

Well we're not doing anything. We're discussing characters, but they just go unnoticed. We need a weekly discussion like everyone else has