Yoshi Matchup Thread

[Mmac]

Links are annoying. I'm picking him up right now, and apparently the bombs are the worst thing (I throw one into the sky and if i get grabbed, well they eat a bomb, and I can use any laggy move I want and not get punished because the bomb will hit me) but yeah a good link main can be a bother with the Zair and that sword that outranges everything but the egg pretty much.

Do bombs hit yoshi out of his DJ btw?

Well discard him before the bomb hits you, and get the hell out of there. Yeah, he's got range, but a majority of them are pretty slow, and have just enough afterlag to punish.

He can, but not until you're at a reasonable percent

 

[Amide]

I think that it's pretty clear now that Link isn't as hard as we thought. But on putting Meta Knight to neutral? C'mon, he has an advantage against EVERYONE. Does any Yoshi want to vs. my Meta Knight? It seems like a one sided matchup.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I suck vs MK's, partially this is to me liking to rush into people which I can't just do on MK without eating a tornado or shuttle loop.
Edge hogging isn't very applicable with the shuttle loop bull crap going on.

It seems a yoshi with good knowledge of the match up using CG's and the like could even it out, but it feels more like a disadvantage to me

 

[Amide]

I suck vs MK's, partially this is to me liking to rush into people which I can't just do on MK without eating a tornado or shuttle loop.
Edge hogging isn't very applicable with the shuttle loop bull crap going on.

It seems a yoshi with good knowledge of the match up using CG's and the like could even it out, but it feels more like a disadvantage to me

If you want to practice against my Meta Knight (or other characters) that would be cool with me. But yes, MK can do loads of crap to Yoshi.

 

[bigman40]

Yoshi can contend MetaKnight fairly well. Eggs can stop most of the broken attacks that Metaknight can break through against other characters (granted the yoshi player still needs to throw it intelligently).
The Chaingrab can slow the pace back to Yoshi's speed, and can put a decent amount of damage onto him, and you can get a free Usmash in if you wish too.
No point in trying to gimp a meta, it's ludacrious to attempt it. He can dodge your attack, then turn the tables around and put you on death's row.
All in all, both players have to play smart, as neither can stick with their normal (might be stupid) strats and think that it'll get an easy win. Metaknight will have to think about getting a good bait to get Yoshi to mess up, while it's the same thing from Yoshi.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Very well. Im still flabbergasted by Dk match up, don't we beat him in the air?
A back air to f-air should put things in our favor early in the match momentum wise. or some egg lobage...

 

[Snowstalker]

I'm thinking that the 55:45 matchups should be colored green, and the 45/55 matchups red.
Oh, and the Diddy and IC boards evidently think that Yoshi beats them 55:45.

 

[Deleted member]

Very well. Im still flabbergasted by Dk match up, don't we beat him in the air?
A back air to f-air should put things in our favor early in the match momentum wise. or some egg lobage...

Why would he let you hit him with a bair? His ftilt beats it. He also beats us in the air and on the ground(even tho i hate having matchups analyzed like that). Dk gets past egg spam easily for a big character.

Also mmac, a good link ALWAYS has a bomb. The point of boomerangs isnt to hit, its that when u dodge it you get punished. He completely zones you, if u SHAD through boomerangs you usually get hit, he can chuck bombs up, can do the thing where u run back and throw a bomb at the same time(jump cancelled throw i think), and has his annoying rangy autocancelled zairs. Hes one of the best campers in the game and yoshi is one of the easiest characters to camp.



Also, i think the ICs boards and the diddy boards are wrong. How does yoshi beat ICs!!!! I know what yoshi can do, just that IC can beat everything yoshi does, and 1 grab(which isnt hard to get if the IC is any good), is a stock.

 

[Mmac]

Kiwi, howcome you haven't been posting the overall generalization of the matchups? We went past DK, MetaKnight, and Pokemon Trainer.

Also I propose that we talk about Ike Next.

Also I think Diddy should be at least 5:5. If the Diddy's think it's 55:45, then so be it....

Also I still think MetaKnight should be dead even 5:5......

Also, I should stop saying Also in front of every post...

 

[Shiri]

Just a quick note on ICs, we beat ICs because we're the only character that can grab them back. ^_~

That's not to say that we win the matchup necessarily, but we can just as easily harass them with grabs as they can **** 99% of the cast with theirs. We also use one of the only characters that can completely incapacitate one of the Climbers for an average of two to four seconds with no diminishing returns, giving us extremely gratuitous windows of opportunity to gimp, gay, or otherwise **** and pillage with reckless abandon.

Yoshi really is one of a kind in this sense.

 

[Gindler]

Well discard him before the bomb hits you, and get the hell out of there. Yeah, he's got range, but a majority of them are pretty slow, and have just enough afterlag to punish.

He can, but not until you're at a reasonable percent

Yeah, but the bombs in the air (and if you're grounded...can't really see coming all that well) true it only does 8 damage but oh my do I love them and link's jab is pretty quick and 2 hits lead into Fsmash pretty easily, yeah all his attacks have afterlad though which stinks (well except for his Zair, Nair, Bair, and Fair which all seem to auto cancel?) Oh yeah don't forget about Zair, it's pretty annoying against taller guys like yoshi.

Ah well then bomb knocking yoshi out of second jump isn't a problem...yay

Yoshi can contend MetaKnight fairly well. Eggs can stop most of the broken attacks that Metaknight can break through against other characters (granted the yoshi player still needs to throw it intelligently).
The Chaingrab can slow the pace back to Yoshi's speed, and can put a decent amount of damage onto him, and you can get a free Usmash in if you wish too.
No point in trying to gimp a meta, it's ludacrious to attempt it. He can dodge your attack, then turn the tables around and put you on death's row.
All in all, both players have to play smart, as neither can stick with their normal (might be stupid) strats and think that it'll get an easy win. Metaknight will have to think about getting a good bait to get Yoshi to mess up, while it's the same thing from Yoshi.

I do love the chain grab, and pivot grabbing tornado (or Nuetral B if you're feeling hilarious), and breaking glide attack with Bair and getting in some hits. That basically takes out most MKs strategies, of course the good ones know how to fight without they're specials....

Why would he let you hit him with a bair? His ftilt beats it. He also beats us in the air and on the ground(even tho i hate having matchups analyzed like that). Dk gets past egg spam easily for a big character.

Also mmac, a good link ALWAYS has a bomb. The point of boomerangs isnt to hit, its that when u dodge it you get punished. He completely zones you, if u SHAD through boomerangs you usually get hit, he can chuck bombs up, can do the thing where u run back and throw a bomb at the same time(jump cancelled throw i think), and has his annoying rangy autocancelled zairs. Hes one of the best campers in the game and yoshi is one of the easiest characters to camp.

Also, i think the ICs boards and the diddy boards are wrong. How does yoshi beat ICs!!!! I know what yoshi can do, just that IC can beat everything yoshi does, and 1 grab(which isnt hard to get if the IC is any good), is a stock.

I hate fighting DK nuff said. Only thing I do like is Dair to footstool...it's pretty funny...if they don't DI out before the footstool of course

Link really is a pain (from what I hear) he'll always have a bomb for sure (he can even use any aerial while holding one...dropping then picking up by using the aerial...too good). Also when a Link chucks a bomb at you don't airdodge or sidestep because you're about to get hit with something better I recommend just staying away from it all together...Same with boomerang as you said burnt, btw when it comes back if links in a grab it'll pull you both pretty far and if you get to the edge link gets out and you're probably off the edge (again an annoyance). His arrows are also UBER fast, make TLs look like slugs on...something really slow. Soooo Link can be a real pain, but that's mostly for the slower bigger guys, hence why I am going to use him as my Snake counter while Yoshi does most of the other matches (also with Link I can camp better to avoid Utilt )

I think diddy's worse than ICs. I've beaten ICs pretty simply since the Dsmash, Throws and Egg lay all seem to separate them easily then you can destroy nana in the air while popo tries to help. But diddy, nanners are a huge pain!

Just a quick note on ICs, we beat ICs because we're the only character that can grab them back. ^_~

That's not to say that we win the matchup necessarily, but we can just as easily harass them with grabs as they can **** 99% of the cast with theirs. We also use one of the only characters that can completely incapacitate one of the Climbers for an average of two to four seconds with no diminishing returns, giving us extremely gratuitous windows of opportunity to gimp, gay, or otherwise **** and pillage with reckless abandon.

Yoshi really is one of a kind in this sense.

Can't they still Chain grab us? I mean I know yoshi can pivot and chuck extremely fast but won't Nana just hit you while this is going on? But yeah (B) might be the worst thing to use against ICs and I LOVE it.


Sorry for the soooo many quotes haven't really been here for a few days...

 

[Shiri]

Well, it's much more simple than it seems, and more complicated at the same time.

It's simple in the fact that, yes ICs can chaingrab.

It's more complicated in the fact that Yoshi can grab from a distance, meaning one of the Climbers still has to get to you to do damage. Even still, throw invulnerability can be used sometimes, even though it has changed slightly. You may be saying to yourself, "Well, Yoshi has a tongue to grab with, but the distance is nothing spectacular," but the truth is that it is spectacular when you compare it to every other character's grab range and find that the length of grab combined with the speed and nature of the throws make grabbing ICs a very viable tactic with Yoshi; moreso than with almost every other character.

I'm certainly not saying Yoshi + grab = win, but it's just that it's not only something that no other character can do to ICs, but it also happens to be something Yoshi excels at, making him that much better at it. It boils down to a matter of inconvenience for the Ice Climbers and how quickly you can take advantage of the time that grabbing allows you.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Kiwi, howcome you haven't been posting the overall generalization of the matchups? We went past DK, MetaKnight, and Pokemon Trainer.

Sorry.
I have been working on PT recently, after that I'll go to MK. I didn't think we had enough discussion on DK, since it was basically just you and me saying a few things, with minimal input from others.

 

[Mmac]

Well since we're talking about Link, I think we should do Link along with Olimar.

I still say he's easier than we make him out to be.

Also, CG Now on Dedede. You think this will have any effect on this Matchup. Sadly I can't say for sure because there's no Dedede's in the area, and it doesn't work online (Penguins are on the other side)

 

[Shiri]

Is this actually a CG or just really hard to escape for King Dedede?

 

[Mmac]

Is this actually a CG or just really hard to escape for King Dedede?

It's an actual Chaingrab, where Dedede can't escape until you screw up or run out of room. Just like the others

 

[Deleted member]

How was it tested. Computors are kinda glitchy in their jumping out, sometimes they do and sometimes not.

 

[Mmac]

With Real People. It does indeed work if you have Perfect Reactions. You can't do it Online because of the .25 Second Delay.

I test everything with real people. CPU's Blow

 

[bigman40]

off topic: Hey stocky! Remeber those pseudo combos I told you about when the game came out (like Bair to rising Fair)? Well, I pulled one off on a friend of mine (Deo). I think that you can actually pull them off if you can surpise your opponent with them, cause he said that he didn't see it coming whne I mistakenly did it

 

[Gindler]

Ah, so yoshi splits up the ICs well with the grab. I always just used B but now I'll throw too.

BTW Mmac you're right, a good link can be a hassle but I don't think he should be 3:7 and yoshi's WORST matchup...(i didn't think he was rated that high)

 

[SOVAman]

I used to play IC all the time before the guy switched his main but anyways all you have to do is grab and throw fast enough so the other climber can't smash you and there you go they are separated.

 

[Yikarur]

Hello I'm new in this forum.
I'm from germany also don't wonder so don't wonder about my bad/not so good english.
I'm Yoshi Main.
Why Pit 5:5?
I'm battling a lot against other Chars and against Pit I have a big problem.

So what can I do against Pit?
pls help ;o;

 

[Mmac]

I don't have much Pit Experience, so I can't really comment. All I can really say is just look out for his Jabs, SideB, and Fsmash. LongHopping to get over the Arrows, and Eggs and Dair work wonders at Edgeguarding. Also Pivot Grabs help too against aggressors

Kiwi, I got a question. I noticed that Kirby does very good against Ike. What exactly does he have that we don't?

 

[Kiwikomix]

Personally, I think that may be the Kirby boards' bias showing through. I use Kirby and I don't see how it could be any better than even.
They may be basing it off the fact that Ike doesn't have a really good way to approach Kirby, since Kirby inhaling a quick draw = a dead Ike (search for Ike Quick Draw Glitch if you don't know what I mean) and Kirby's fsmash outranges Ike's faster ground options. Still, Kirby does suffer from a complete lack of range against Ike, and he can't really camp as well as Yoshi can. He can't approach most characters well, and Ike is certainly no different. I'll check out the thread to take a look at the discussion.

K, the Kirby mains also think that Kirby edgeguards his recovery, probably better than Yoshi can since Kirby's dair actually has range. He can also be comboed into a WOP, apparently.

Still, I've been looking at the arguments presented there, and it's ridiculous. The Ike defenders are completely ignored. That definitely needs to be looked into.

Anyway... I've been working on the PT matchup. Takes a lot of time, since there's three characters.

 

[Bwett]

I used to be an Ike main and still use him as a secondary, if yall need some pointers.

Whenever you end up using Ike against someone, one of the only concerns that Ike has is to not get gimped. In many ways, Ike has just as bad a recovery as Olimar, and alot of his deaths come from being gimped, so any character that has aerial priority has the ability to beat Ike.

The key difference in Yoshi and Kirby when facing Ike is mostly from this very reason. Kirby has very fast, reliable aerials that have range. One knock from these attacks while Ike is in midair off the edge and he is dead. Yoshi, however, is rather slow when it comes to off-edge combat. Bair is difficult to use, uair is not a direction you want to send Ike, fair is alittle slow, nair doesnt have much priority, and dair doesnt work effectively with a mainly vertical 3rd jump. As long as Ike makes it back to the stage, he is a huge threat.

This is probably the main reason, along with a variety of suck gimps that kirby has over yoshi. While I mained Ike, if I didn't get gimped, I won. It's a love hate relationship lol.

 

[Mmac]

Well I think Yoshi has a slight upper hand (5.5) in this matchup still, I just think the Speed overtakes Ike's range. Also I found that Nair works pretty well.

Also, What do you think of the following matchup's should be now with my recent discoveries?

Snake: Now can be CG'ed and very easily Grabbed Gimped

Ganondorf: So Cruel

Wolf: CG and Release Fair Spike

Falco: Rediscovered CG and Fair Spike

Fox: Release Fair Spike

Sheik: Release Fair Spike

Dedede: Chaingrab

 

[Chaco]

Wow, can you make a vid of this Snake CG please?

 

[Mmac]

Wow, can you make a vid of this Snake CG please?

http://files.filefront.com/SSBBYoshiSnakewmv/;11626596;/fileinfo.html

I did it somewhere in the middle, but only once before I screwed it up. I don't have a video showing the chaingrab primarily, but maybe I should do everyones for the purpose of the CG Thread.

Anyways, it's exactly the same as the other CG'ables.


Also note on Video, I didn't show off Snake's DJ to UpB, but it can be easily intercepted by an Nair or even a Spike. Other than that, he shouldn't never reach the Ledge by any means. I also wanted to show off the possible infinite using C4, but it's rediciously hard to do out of a release

 

[SOVAman]

I might make a vid of all the CGable characters in one vid.

Just showing the CG and so people don't ask so many questions

 

[Shiri]

Holy cow, Yoshi is sooooo gay, LOL!

<3 <3 <3

 

[Chaco]

goota love Yoshi....he;s going for god tier.

 

[Gindler]

Even with all these ridiculous kill methods. Yoshi will never get the respect he deserves

 

[Scala]

My friends were saying that yoshi is broken because of his tail LOL

 

[Mmac]

Snake: Now can be CG'ed and very easily Grabbed Gimped

Ganondorf: So Cruel

Wolf: CG and Release Fair Spike

Falco: Rediscovered CG and Fair Spike

Fox: Release Fair Spike

Sheik: Release Fair Spike

Dedede: Chaingrab

So... nobody has any thought where these characters should be now?

 

[DanGR]

Anyone mind explaining the Diddy matchup? I'm interested.

Edit: V- Fox is too hard to grab for it to make a huge difference. I can see sheik losing stock though.

 

[Shiri]

The matchups I think will be affected the most are Fox and Sheik. Maybe Wolf.

Unfortunately, the only good character out of those three is Sheik, but everyone plays Zelda mostly anyway.

Falco and King Dedede are much more common and this may affect the King Dedede matchup slightly, but the Falco matchup, I think, will remain largely unchanged since Falco is too busy jumping around like a ballerina to get grabbed.

 

[SOVAman]

My friends were saying that yoshi is broken because of his tail LOL

lol someone told me that before too.

 

[Gindler]

Ha, same here actually. I won a match by being up a stock and Bairing them away the whole time till the time ran out (keep in mind this was a charity tournament with 3 stock 3 minutes). I still thought it was funny though.

 

[Mmac]

The matchups I think will be affected the most are Fox and Sheik. Maybe Wolf.

Unfortunately, the only good character out of those three is Sheik, but everyone plays Zelda mostly anyway.

Falco and King Dedede are much more common and this may affect the King Dedede matchup slightly, but the Falco matchup, I think, will remain largely unchanged since Falco is too busy jumping around like a ballerina to get grabbed.

Fox and Sheik I wouldn't think it would change much. It would if you could chaingrab them. Wolf maybe not. He's still rediciously hard to grab, especially if he's Laser happy. Isn't stopped by platforms though. I only think it will be a minor increase at best.

I say 5.5 Sheik, 5.5 Fox, and 4.5 Wolf. Wolf isn't stopped by platforms, just like Squirtle!

Poor Ganondorf, he didn't deserve this fate. 9:1

Dedede, I am not sure of, so I'm going to wait until Bwett learns it, and see what he and Fodo think when they fight the next time

Snake I think it would effect alot, as just doing it even once will practically give you the match. Even on platform heavy stages, his recovery is Linear as hell. On the Cypher, he can't grab the ledge (If he's close to it) Without being grabbed. Once he's grabbed on the ledge, it's basically over.

Falco I think is just completely Devastated now. Grabbing people from the air I feel is actually one of the easiest ways to Snag someone (And I snag people often!). The most awesome thing is that just like Squirtle, he isn't stopped by platforms. The fact that he has a pertty easy Chaingrab and an easier Fair Spike, AND Can't Counterpick stages. I don't think he has that much of an upper hand or even an upper hand at all anymore

I'll play against more corresponding mains before giving my final word though

 

[bigman40]

Got something for GW. Has anyone thought about shieldgrabbing the Fair and Bair? They might provide just enough time to grab GW out of them.