Yoshi Matchup Thread

[Mmac]

You guys are all crazy >_>;

5.5 for Falcon?

Still sticking with 7:3 Jigglypuff though...

Also do you think we were quick to put Link as 3:7? He's hard, even harder than Toon Link, but He's not as hard as say Game & Watch/Falco. I say he's more like 3.5:6.5

 

[Shiri]

Yoshi loses to Link severely.

Yoshi doesn't lose to Mr. Game and Watch nearly as badly.

 

[Deleted member]

Uhh, G&W is pretty bad imo. Id say they r equal. G&W is practically unbeatable on small stages imo, hes rough.


Also, mmac, ur just in denial because i wrote pages on the falcon matchup and people tend to believe well stated arguments than "I dont see it, falcon cant approach/has no priority" XD


Both of which are not true(he has SOME priority, just lots of his moves lack it.)

If all of falcons moves were disjointed/high priority, hed be high tier for sure.


Also, i miss arguing with shiri, he actually wins =(

 

[Mmac]

Whatever, I say 5.5 and no lower!

I organized the list to put it in Advantage to Disadvantage for simple convince. (And so that Kiwi doesn't need to do all the work)

Advantage:
Ganondorf - 7:3
Jigglypuff - 7:3
Squirtle - 7:3
Wario - 7:3
Samus - 6.5:3.5
Bowser - 6:4
Ice Climbers - 6:4
Lucas - 6:4
Olimar - 6:4
Pokemon Trainer (Overall) - 6:4
Sonic - 6:4
Zero Suit Samus - 6:4

Neutral
Captain Falcon - 5.5:4.5
Ivysaur - 5.5:4.5
Diddy Kong - 5:5
Fox - 5:5
Ike - 5:5
Kirby - 5:5
Luigi - 5:5
Pit - 5:5
Yoshi - 5:5 Ditto
Mario - 4.5:5.5
Meta-Knight - 4.5:5.5
Pikachu - 4.5:5.5
:shiek: Sheik - 4.5:5.5

Disadvantage
Donkey Kong - 4:6
King Dedede- 4:6
Lucario - 4:6
Ness - 4:6
Peach - 4:6
Charizard - 4:6
ROB - 4:6
Snake - 4:6
Toon Link - 4:6
Wolf - 4:6
Marth - 3.5:6.5
Zelda - 3.5:6.5
Falco - 3:7
Mr. Game and Watch - 3:7
Link - 3:7

Some changes I've made, Wario to 7:3 (They're reporting it....) ZSS to 6:4, Falcon to 5.5 (>_>), Diddy Kong to 5:5 (I discussed over their Matchup thread and the actually consider Yoshi quite troublesome), MetaKnight to 4.5, Sheik to 4.5

Some things we should look into:

Samus, Harder?
Peach, Easier?
Ness, Easier?
Lucario, Harder?

 

[Deleted member]

Looks good except for ICs, which should be 4-6 imo. One grab is a stock, blizzard outranges your egg lay, which is yoshis best anti grab option, they kill better than you, but yoshi does have his egg lay(if u can be tricky with it), and can gimp ICs pretty well.

 

[Mmac]

Ice Climbers agree >_>

I'm much aware that getting grabbed = Death (That is pretty much true with everybody). I also find that Bair to Tilt works wonders to get Nana away from Popo. Egg Roll works ok too, but risky.

 

[Deleted member]

Blizzard beats bair, i think side b does too, and bair is often sged, and egg roll is grabbed. Uhh ice climbers agree with who?

 

[Mmac]

Yes, No, I haven't really been SG'ed much out of my Bair, Yes, and I discussed this in their Matchup Board with general agreement

 

[SOVAman]

Blizzard beats bair, i think side b does too, and bair is often sged, and egg roll is grabbed. Uhh ice climbers agree with who?

true I used to play a good IC before he switched his main and the desynced blizzard beats everything.

 

[SOVAman]

Also can you organize the thread so advantages on top then neutral then disadvantages.

 

[bigman40]

IC vs Yoshi = 5:5.

Grab = stock, while yoshi can split them up well and gimp both of them hardcore.

I'll think about Falcon, but I don't say that it's even. I find it a small favor towards Yoshi at least.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yoshi isn't bad against ICs. His grabs have better range and his neutral B can seperate them easily (especially near the ledge)

 

[Deleted member]

I know what yoshi can do against IC, i just think that its at least slightly their favor cuz of blizzard stopping EVERYTHING. Except eggs.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I believe Yoshi counters Kirby. Because Kirby can't D-air spike Yoshi with his SAF double jump. And Yoshi can KO Kirby pretty easily since Kirby is light weight, and Yoshi is faster too, so its hard to avoid getting comboed by Yoshi. Kirby can combo Yoshi too, but with Yoshi's amazing aerial DI, he can easily escape a combo.

 

[SOVAman]

I believe Yoshi counters Kirby. Because Kirby can't D-air spike Yoshi with his SAF double jump. And Yoshi can KO Kirby pretty easily since Kirby is light weight, and Yoshi is faster too, so its hard to avoid getting comboed by Yoshi. Kirby can combo Yoshi too, but with Yoshi's amazing aerial DI, he can easily escape a combo.

agree

10lilbagrees

 

[Deleted member]

Umm kirby can spike yoshi, and kirby has 0-40 combos on yoshi(and most characters), and kirby has a WAY easier time killing yoshi than vica versa. Yoshi cant easily escape combos cuz hes heavy and biggish.

Kirby also has the tools to avoid getting combod by yoshi, and kirby is small. So no, id say its even or slightly advantaged to kirby.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Former Kirby main here.
I'd say that, if anything but a neutral, it's slightly in Kirby's favor. Because Yoshi is heavy, Kirby's dthrow -> utilt -> utilt -> uair and fthrow -> uair -> fthrow all work pretty well. And Kirby's being lightweight only makes Yoshi decent at KOing, where Kirby's fsmash destroys most of Yoshi's ground attacks.

And I'll get on that re-organization thing, though I'll post my thoughts on any matchup changes later.

 

[Mmac]

Blizzard is annoying, but it's only a 30 Degree Spray and it leaves them open. Annoying yes, but it's still can get around with some clever work.

They have it listed at 55:45 though. Just drop the matchup down a .5?

 

[Chaco]

Guys Kirby can spike Yoshi..and advantage to Kirby for all the ways to **** Yoshi.

Who wants to talk about murder, and bloody ****. Lucario.

 

[Shiri]

Yoshi v. Kirby is in Kirby's favor, I think. It's not easy for either player, but Kirby wins on paper.

LOL @ Lucario. He's such a good character, he can give Yoshi a hard time. I think it's in Lucario's favor, but just by a bit. That Aura is so gay, LOL.

 

[Kiwikomix]

If Yoshi didn't have so much trouble killing, it wouldn't be an issue. I h-eight Lucario.
And now I will defend the opposite side that I just attacked.
The Yoshi-Kirby matchup isn't too much in Kirby's favor because Kirby doesn't have too much range in the air or on the ground, besides his fsmash and aerial hammer. It's pretty difficult for him to find a good way to attack, since Yoshi stops him most of the time. But Yoshi by no means shuts him down.

 

[SOVAman]

I have played Chu and he comboed me and beat me in the air so I think kirby has a advantage

 

[Scala]

Random thing I found out during some friendlies while playing Sliq's Bowser (which is amazing):

You can grab bowser in midair WHILE he's doing his fortress. I don't know if it works over he ground, but he was trying to sweetspot the ledge, I stuck my tongue out and it stopped his fortress and gave me a grab. I threw him out and he was dead since he has no jumps.


Another question, when you do a fthrow with yoshi at high percents, sometimes they fly almost horizontally, other times they fly more at a upwards angle, is this because of DI or something else?

 

[Mmac]

I think it's random. I not sure, but I noticed that too.

And if you grab Bowser out of his UpB, he no longer has it?

 

[kackamee]

If you grab anyone they don't have there recovery anymore if they used it previously

 

[Mmac]

Now I'm REALLY positive that Yoshi > MetaKnight.

Pivot Grab + Chaingrab to Ledge + Fair = Dead MetaKnight + One Happy Yoshi ^_^

 

[Scala]

Now I'm REALLY positive that Yoshi > MetaKnight.

Pivot Grab + Chaingrab to Ledge + Fair = Dead MetaKnight + One Happy Yoshi ^_^

It's so beautiful, I'm crying tears of joy now that yoshi has an advantage on the most broken char in the game.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

but Mk can dodge an f-air easy, he doesnt lose anything by air dodging since has so many jumps >.>

 

[SOVAman]

in brawl you can air dodge when ever with any character and you won't lose anything

unlike melee

 

[Deleted member]

Blizzard is annoying, but it's only a 30 Degree Spray and it leaves them open. Annoying yes, but it's still can get around with some clever work.

They have it listed at 55:45 though. Just drop the matchup down a .5?

I dont mean to put down your knowledge(from online, and ics kinda suck online), but SH desynched blizzard doesnt leave them open. What are you gonna do? Fast fall a nair? You get grabbed. Blizzard destroys lil yoshi =(


Also, just because u can spike him, doesnt mean he'll die. If it catches them by surprise, maybe, but if they know its coming(which, once MKs learn the matchup, they will), they can just recover.

 

[Shiri]

Another question, when you do a fthrow with yoshi at high percents, sometimes they fly almost horizontally, other times they fly more at a upwards angle, is this because of DI or something else?

It's entirely dependent on how the grabbed player DIs.

 

[Mmac]

but Mk can dodge an f-air easy, he doesnt lose anything by air dodging since has so many jumps >.>

MetaKnight can't do anything if you react and time it correctly. See where that's a problem?

It doesn't matter if it's easy to see coming, MetaKnight can't do a thing until he's about to be hit with it. Thats the delicious part

And I know he can't die, unless he's at 48%+, then he's dead

 

[Mmac]

Adding on, I say that Squirtle and Ganondorf are now impossible to deal with Yoshi. One grab (Depending on the stage), and they're screwed. If the spike doesn't kill them, then the resulting Edgehog will.

I say 9:1 Ganondorf, and 8.5:1.5 Squirtle.

Also I think we should increase Fox and Sheik to 5.5. You can't CG them, so it's alot harder to set up. Automatic kill though if you do manage to Grab them near the edge.

Wolf I think should stay the same. I dunno but it's going to be a ***** trying to grab him near the ledge. Not to mention that gun of his.

Edit: Hah! Squirtle isn't stopped by platforms! Ganondorf is though.....

 

[Deleted member]

Meteor cancels? Wolf gets owned from a grab off stage anyways, doesnt change much cuz of egg lay.

U can cancel a spike with up b, so not its not an auto kill.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

How do you grab Wolf off the stage?

 

[Kiwikomix]

K, this thread has been doing it for a while anyway, so why don't we just keep discussing a character we are all interested in and are fairly divided against. Meta-Knight time.
To begin with, I don't believe pivots are as awesome as they seem at first. For example, MK can just Dimensional Cape past it and punish you.
Also, the matchup is a "wait to punish the opponent" kind of thing, but that actually works for MK cuz, come on, he's MK.

 

[SOVAman]

you made a mistake on the first post ZSS is a 6:4 and its yellow so when you get a chance can you make that green thanks.

 

[Mmac]

Meteor cancels? Wolf gets owned from a grab off stage anyways, doesnt change much cuz of egg lay.

U can cancel a spike with up b, so not its not an auto kill.

I tested it again with MetaKnight with my friend and neither of us can cancel out the spike. Unless theres more to it than tapping the crap out of UpB, then it doesn't work

 

[Scala]

Oh, I think there was a bit of misinterpretation when I said that I grabbed bowser out of his fortress, I meant to say that I grabbed him out of his DOWN B (sit) move that he was trying to grab the ledge with. Then threw him, and killed him. You could probably do the same vs another yoshi.

 

[Deleted member]

i believe its like teching, where if u press up b too early, u cant do it for another few frames or something. Dunno ill experiment with it if a friend comes over.