Yoshi Matchup Thread

[SOVAman]

hold up why is Charzard a disadvantage?????? I have played Charzards and I destroy them on the ground and in the air and off the edge it should be an advantage I don't understand this.

plz explain.

 

[Mmac]

I get destroyed by them....

HE'S GOTZ DRAGON POAWER!

 

[SOVAman]

You do?

What can they do to destroy a Yoshi?


Charzard is easy to combo and easy to edge guard.

 

[Mmac]

He's got good airs...... and Rock Smash.......

I dunno, whenever I'm against a Charizard, I just get owned by it. He became my new Mario

 

[SOVAman]

his aerials are good but don't Yoshi's aerials beat his aerials? Maybe its just me but I usually beat charzards.

 

[bigman40]

it should be probably even (Don't have enough to make a solid guess). Yoshi can combo that **** out of him as soon as Yoshi can get close. Egg spam can screw hm over also. Charizard has range to keep Yoshi at bay for a little, but it's not good enough like DK's. He has good power though (he can get some kills if he can land them), and with Rock smash, approaching from the front can cause a little trouble if you're not careful. Sry, but don't think charizard has enough to give hm the advantage.

 

[Gindler]

Just thought I'd throw all my cents around.

Ness is definetely equal to Yoshi.
They both have great air moves, and decent ground game.
A b-sticked PKF is hell, (Yoshi is heavy remember) and batting him after it is easy. Of course, both recoveries can be gimped, (yoshi wins out due to his projectile Egg throw)

Im definetely on the grounds of 5-5.

I'm pretty sure that yoshi can use his jump armor to burst out of pkf, I noticed on the ness boards (he's my secondary) that yoshi is in the impossible part of the PKfire to rising Dair as he's the only character that breaks out with ease.

Do we agree that DK has an advantage?


I agree with the MK being 4.4:5.5 but it might be ?????4:5??????

Spoiler

Double post oh noesss

I'd say DK has the advantage, but dair to footstool on him is a viable weapon until they wise up to it (doesn't take long for that though)

I believe Yoshi counters Kirby. Because Kirby can't D-air spike Yoshi with his SAF double jump. And Yoshi can KO Kirby pretty easily since Kirby is light weight, and Yoshi is faster too, so its hard to avoid getting comboed by Yoshi. Kirby can combo Yoshi too, but with Yoshi's amazing aerial DI, he can easily escape a combo.

I've been spiked by kirby, I think he has to hit with every hit in his dair though and that'll shread the heavy armor. I did however beat a good kirby around here as they tend to underestimate yoshi's jump speed so Uair one getting ready to "rock" makes an easy kill as he's so light.

If you grab anyone they don't have there recovery anymore if they used it previously

I think it's just characters that don't go into free fall...snake, G&W, don't know any others. I think a DK did it when I tried and he just used recovery again.

hold up why is Charzard a disadvantage?????? I have played Charzards and I destroy them on the ground and in the air and off the edge it should be an advantage I don't understand this.

plz explain.

Only reason I can think is that charizards Fair shreads right through yoshi's armor so he can gimp you pretty easy to (it has tremendous knockback when used at the right time)

 

[Chaco]

DK has the advantage no doubt, he's got the reach to mess you up. In Shiri's words: "Those hands are gigantic" XDD

I disagree with Char being a disadvantage also, you can egg them to a point of surrender and then go in for some aerial stringing.

 

[Mmac]

K, this thread has been doing it for a while anyway, so why don't we just keep discussing a character we are all interested in and are fairly divided against. Meta-Knight time.

I already went over MetaKnight alot of times, I'll just quote my old discussion:

Anyways, I'll start on MetaKnight:

MetaKnight, The name itself strikes fears upon every Warrior and Creature in the world of Smash. However, Cute, Fun Loving, Egg Throwing Dinosaurs don't need to (Or Giant Dragon Turtles, or Gorrias, but that's another story). Yoshi has one important defence, and that's Pivot Grabs. They stop every ground based approach he has (Even his dreaded Tornado!). Yoshi's Usmash and Uair stops every Air Approach he has. Combine those two, and MetaKnight is going to have one hell of a time approaching. Even Spotdodging doesn't work because you can just spotdodge his Dsmash afterwards, then follow up with a Jab+Jab+Running Grab Combo. Plus every Grab basically leads into a 30 Damage Combo! Also, Release Grab to Usmash leads to a much easier time killing him, who is otherwise, very hard to Kill in the first place!

Course, MetaKnight isn't going to rush into your Impenetrable Wall of Yoshi, so you have to bait him into attacking. Well Spaced Eggs can give him the illusion of an opening, and same with a fake Pivot Grab, both which Yoshi can react in time to snag him. Course, even if MetaKnight does break in, Yoshi can still fight back quite well, and he can escape easily to get back into position. In the Air, he can't chase you with your amazing airspeed, and on the ground you can do a Falling Bair to Ftilt combo. Edgeguarding, MetaKnight can Edgeguard quite well, but his poor Horizontal Speed compared to your great Horizontal Speed hinders him. You can just breeze right past him with a DJ+Airdodge. However, it's pointless to Edgeguard him too. Eggs work good, but that's it.

Being Aggressive with MetaKnight is Pointless, you'll never win. His Defencive game is just too good. You both have great defencive games against eachother, but You have something he doesn't. A Projectile. So he has to be aggressive against you, which puts the game to your advantage. The more I talk about this matchup and the more I play against Enemy MetaKnight. I grow more and more confident about how well Yoshi does against MetaKnight, Maybe into the advantage territory!

Conclusion, Taking MetaKnight head-on will only lead to your death. However by playing defensively, you are basically putting all of Yoshi's Strengths into one Wall of Yoshi, which MetaKnight has to be very clever to break into. Even if he does, his Poor Airspeed allows you to relocate easily, plus He can defend himself quite well also. As long as you stay defencive, space well, and don't do anything stupid, You will stand a very good chance against the supersonic batwinged terror.

And now he can Chaingrab him into a Fair spike to kill at 48%. Isn't Life grand?

And here's my DK, if you missed it:

Anyways, Enough about Luigi and Ness. I'll get started on Donkey Kong:


Donkey Kong is your stereotypical Big Character, except he's fast, and his range is unnatural. First of all, Donkey Kong is a ground based fighter, so he's going to stay on the ground for the majority of the match. He plays much better in a defencive style, but unlike MetaKnight, he is still a pain aggressive due to his redicious Ftilt which goes past your Pivot Grabs. However he's still going to be out of his element, so try to force him to be aggressive, it's much easier than dealing with him defencive wise.

It's very hard to get hits on Donkey Kong because his Defencive Ground game is much superior, and you don't have many ways to deal with it. He doesn't have a blind spot unlike Dedede, so you gotta pick your moment. However once you get in, then DK is going to be in trouble as his air game blows. His Bair is good, but thats it. DK is also probably one of the easiest to combo because when he gets hit, he "folds out", making himself bigger. However DK isn't going to spend much time in the Air, so you won't have much chances.

DK Still has some tricks that you going to have to look out for such as his classic Headbutt + Donkey Punch Combo, or his Cargo Spike. They're both pretty easy to see and avoid if you play smart. Also Yoshi's Eggs makes DK have a much harder time to charge his Punch. DK I find rather hard to edgeguard. His UpB seems really hard to get into, plus the initial frames have invincibility! I wouldn't recommend Physically Edgeguarding DK Either. DK also has a pretty tough time, but you still gotta watch his range on his ground moves, or his Bair.

Overall, Donkey Kong is very scary on the ground. He has all 3 of the elements, Range, Speed, and Power. However if you get hits in, and remain in control after you get him into the air, then he should fall apart rather quickly if you don't allow him to set up his guard. I say 4:6

 

[Kiwikomix]

MK:
I just thought of something.
There's a probable chance that MK's tornado doesn't **** Yoshi as hard as it does everyone else, since Yoshi's shield doesn't shrink and therefore can't get poked.
Anyway, I don't feel like there's much more we can say here, but if we change it to MK's advantage everyone's gonna start going crazy. So I vote that we invade the MK boards with a topic called "MK vs Yoshi Matchup Discussion" or something along those lines. Although there aren't really that many smart MK posters, it may be worth a try.

 

[SOVAman]

I will post on it if someone makes the thread even though it won't do much good arguing with them because 3/4 of the people that post on the MK boards are scrubs.

 

[Mmac]

Invaliding eh?

Sounds..... fun?

 

[Amide]

Why does Yoshi have such a large disadvantage to Link?

 

[Mmac]

Why does Yoshi have such a large disadvantage to Link?

Range. Link's range completely screws up Yoshi's approaches. If he has good timing and control, then he can completely keep Yoshi at bay at all times. His speed doesn't really matter, but he has a Dash Attack Cancel to Usmash that is really painful, but can be countered with a Pivot Grab. His Projectiles are fast and good. It makes it hard for Yoshi to counter spam.

However I don't think he has the advantage that much. Yoshi does have a Chaingrab on him, and his Recovery is very poor.....


Wait... I thought of something!

*Goes to lab*

 

[Kiwikomix]

It's too hard to actually land a hit.
Link is a great camper with his arrows and bombs (not so much boomerang) so it's difficult to even approach him. Then, once you actually get close, his grab outranges yours and his sword outprioritizes your dair and bair.
Although I have been thinking recently that it should be 3.5:6.5, since it's not the level of **** that Falco or G-Dub is.

 

[Mmac]

Hah! I knew it!

Link is also victim to the Grab Release to Fair too! Just need to Shorthop instead of fall. If he tries anything, he's dead.

Attack = Dead
Airdodge = Edgehog
Zair = Out of Range

 

[SOVAman]

yay (not like there is any links >_<)

 

[Mmac]

yay (not like there is any links >_<)

Well when they come, at least we go a trump card on him.

So...... how much do you think this will effect the Link Matchup?

So far, we aren't getting anything negative from MetaKnights being 6:4 us.... or they just don't care

 

[SOVAman]

MK should be 5:5 neutral (hopefully he just gets banned so we don't have to worry about him lol) but anyway the link match up will probably change a little but not drastically.

 

[Mmac]

Oh, before I forget, Diddy seemed to finalized our matchup to 55:45 to our advantage.

Ice Climbers have us listed also as 55:45 Yoshi

 

[Kress]

Oh, before I forget, Diddy seemed to finalized our matchup to 55:45 to our advantage.

Ice Climbers have us listed also as 55:45 Yoshi

How come O_O? Please explain how can yoshi beat da bannana spam :S?

 

[Mmac]

How come O_O? Please explain how can yoshi beat da bannana spam :S?

The main disadvantage for Diddy is that Yoshi=no edgeguarding. He is extremely hard to edgeguard which is where diddy excells. The bad thing for Yoshi is that most of Diddy's moves have more priority than Yoshis.

It’s kind of like why luigi’s matchup is bad. When yoshi gets hit by a banana he slides farther than most chars which is makes it hard to follow up. Also Yoshi can chain grab diddy across the stage. YOSHI IS HEAVY. He prioritizes your attacks as well. So it’s more in Yoshi’s favor.

This is pretty much their conclusion. Honestly, I'm confused too.

Also Kiwi, they seem to don't care about our Matchup Discussion against MetaKnight....

 

[Kiwikomix]

That's okay. I wasn't expecting a deluge of replies, considering that most people on the MK boards are pretty stupid.
Just kidding, any MK mainer looking at this post...

Spoiler

I love Meta-Knight so much

 

[SOVAman]

How come O_O? Please explain how can yoshi beat da bannana spam :S?

Easy just picks them up and then do the DJC toss and then you can just CG the diddy when you hit him with the Banana.

 

[Kress]

Yoshi can do the DJC toss too?! **** Im so stupid, I thought that he couldn't becouse his shield was different .___________________.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for explaining that to me !

Anyways, wich one are we discussing again? looks like we got stuck in MetaKnight, so why dont we keep on going with another character? I mean it's not like if MetaTards care about the matchup (not all of da MetaKnights, some are pretty competitive, but that character discussion is full of trash-ppl...)
So, why dont we continue on with.... ....ummmm, Sheik of Falco?

 

[Mmac]

I think we should do Pokemon Trainer actually. Squirtle is all but screwed now, and there's alot of debate on Charizard.

MetaKnight we're taking to their front, and we're getting some attention now

 

[Deleted member]

Uhhh i think ivysaur is worse than charizard, but ive only played good PTs online(nobody plays tourny pt lol).

Cuz bullet seed does like 10000 damage.Thats the only reason.

 

[Mmac]

Bullet Seed isn't that hard to get caught in though.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Charizard can't be too much of a disadvantage, since he's a slowish character that can't really deal with projectile spams, but a few of his aerials are worth mentioning, specifically fair and bair. He also has some wicked ground range, especially in fsmash and his grab. Overall he's not too big of a threat though, since not much can get him back to the ground after you start juggling him. It's important to spam eggs when he's off the stage, so that he can't glide back, and beyond that his recovery is pretty crappy.

 

[Mmac]

I'll guess I'll get started on them

Squirtle is simple and breif. He is screwed. Now with the new Release to Fair Spike, Yoshi can kill him at any percent Easily! Yoshi Ground game is much better than him, which limits his approaches to the Air. The problem is that Yoshi can easily snag Squirtle from the air, and once he's grabbed, he's dead. The beautiful part is that unlike the other Chaingrabables, Squirtle isn't stopped by platforms, so he can't even counterpick stages! Don't even bother using him. Every second he is on the field, you are risking a Stock Loss. When you get to him, just switch to Ivysaur, and get a fully charged Fsmash in the face. 25% is better than death.

Matchup, 8.5:1.5 or 9:1 (Man that tech screwed him badly)


Eh, Ivysaur is pretty cool..... Girl? Anyways she is pretty troublesome. She's got an alright ground game, but is Laggy and easy to get around. Her Bair Fence is annoying as hell and is the bread and butter of her airgame. She also has a pretty good projectile. She also has the dreaded Bullet Seed, but it's pretty easy to avoid. The main problem is that she can rack up damage nicely, she lacks a good kill move, as her kills are pretty laggy, and easy to avoid if you're paying attention. Her biggest flaw is her recovery, which is very easy to gimp. While she can't kill, She'll soften you up greatly for when you face Charizard

I'm sticking with the original 5.5:4.5

I hate Charizard, so can someone else detail him? I do say he should be about 4.5:5.5 though

 

[Shiri]

As for Charizard, he's a weird one.

Rock Smash, down tilt, and neutral air do a great job of breaking the double jump and back air has a very nice GTFO property to it that makes Yoshi cautious up close. Because of the lack of instant sheilding when dashing, Charizard can whip out a reverse back aerial whenever a dashing Yoshi makes a swift ground approach to keep himself safe. Forward tilt has Donkey Kong-esque range, but lacks the quick recovery time of DK's swing and is a little less threatening. Down air from Charizard isn't amazing off stage but can be a bother on the stage as it links to almost any tilt or aerial he has. Downsmash has the perfect amount of startup time to catch bad rolls from Yoshi and pops Yoshi up for up smash or up aerial setups. Overall, Charizard getting the KO isn't too hard in this matchup--down tilt, intelligent forward smashes, and a lucky back air or two can net Charizard some clutch KOs. Unfortunately, Charizard's main problem, I think, is surviving long enough to rack up damage and spot the chance to KO.

Yoshi loses to Charizard statistically, but does a great job of beating Charizard in the fray by constantly keeping on him with multi-hit aerials and weak hit combos. Down air, back air, single jabs, and down tilt are key to both hitting Charizard and also to keep hitting Charizard. At such close range, you'll want to generally keep this beast stun locked so that he's not able to use his pushback options (which generally have some startup time). Charizard will have to resort to jabs, up tilts, and lucky neutral airs to get out of your hits in order to reset. Once he's reset, he then has to deal with an onslaught of eggs and spaced back aerials if the Yoshi player feels like staying at a range.

Flamethrower is negligible in this matchup. So is Hip Drop from Yoshi.

It's a tough call. This matchup can get pretty gruesome with both sides really slugging it out if they wanted to. I don't want to call it even, but I really wouldn't know who to put in slight favor over the other to be honest.

 

[Mmac]

In some other news, Samus has agreed on 65:35, but are arguing that it might be even easier for us....

Link is most likely a 4:6 matchup now.

And I'm trying to get the Ike's and Luigi's to agree on a Neutral Matchup...

 

[Shiri]

I severely doubt Link can be dropped to 4:6 just because of the grab release.

It's good, but let's be honest with each other; Link has some of the best tools in the game to avoid ranged grabs. The grab release is powerful and once you get it, the stock is basically done, but Link still poses too much of a threat when he's not in Yoshi's mouth to brush him aside like that.

I hate to sound sour, but I strongly disagree with dropping Link to 4:6.

 

[Mmac]

But.... But Instant Kills! ;_ ;

I dunno, but he's defentily not a 3:7 anymore....

 

[SOVAman]

For diddy it should be 6:4 not 4.5:5.5 I play diddys at tournaments all the time and I win easily all you have to do is grab/CG diddy and you will have control of the match. Also now you can do a DJCT its like a glide toss except it is better. After you hit diddy with his own banana it is a auto grab which means a auto CG. Also off the edge diddy is is easy to edge guard and gimp. Yoshi aerials beat out all of diddys aerials and Yoshi can out spam diddy easily. All yoshi has to do is control the bananas and CG him the whole match and you should have no problem beating a Diddy.

Match up is a 6:4 in favor of yoshi.

 

[B0NK]

But.... But Instant Kills! ;_ ;

I dunno, but he's defentily not a 3:7 anymore....

If you can get close enough to a good Link to grab, the Link screwed up. Not to mention he will probably have a bomb in is hand which will likely save his life. It's just too hard for Yoshi to get close and if you do get close, the grab is the worst thing to attempt since if you miss, you'll be punished.

It's not an impossible match-up, since once you get the eggs started, it causes trouble for him to get away but Yoshi grab doesn't make a difference in this match-up. I think it's still a 3:7.

 

[Shiri]

Also for Diddy, don't forget that you can catch bananas risk free with DR.

 

[Gindler]

If you can get close enough to a good Link to grab, the Link screwed up. Not to mention he will probably have a bomb in is hand which will likely save his life. It's just too hard for Yoshi to get close and if you do get close, the grab is the worst thing to attempt since if you miss, you'll be punished.

It's not an impossible match-up, since once you get the eggs started, it causes trouble for him to get away but Yoshi grab doesn't make a difference in this match-up. I think it's still a 3:7.

True, I haven't played many Links. But the ones I have played ALWAYS have a bomb in their hand. and if they need to do a melee attack they do that wierd bomb thing that I could never do (i always just throw it instead ) But yeah, I think I grabbed a link maybe...once? less than anyone else I'm pretty sure (TLs short reach makes him way easier to grab)

 

[Amide]

On Meta Knight: It's like 8:1 in MK's favor. Out ranges, speeds, gimps Yoshi. Also, only Yoshi move to outprioritize tornado is up special. When will that timing work? I hate MK.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Yoshi's ground approaches are pretty crappy as it is, so grabbing Link is still next to impossible. Crazy camper guy for the lose.

Edit: @ Tlink: MK has a surprisingly hard time gimping Yoshi, since he's one of the few characters that can get away with airdodging almost constantly. And both grabs and egg lay go through the tornado.