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X or Y? - PT Social

Xyless

Xyless

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TheReflexWonder said:
I think everyone else is...reasonable...You probably should just switch characters against Meta Knight and Marth, though.
Click to expand...
I figured with Marth, but I honestly can't imagine MK being as bad as a matchup as it is for Peach.

I'm still gonna go all PT this weekend, will only switch off if I get a Marth.
 
TheReflexWonder

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Xyless said:
I figured with Marth, but I honestly can't imagine MK being as bad as a matchup as it is for Peach.
Click to expand...
Try fighting a Meta Knight that just uses tilts/F-Smash and walks away until your character is tired.

Squirtle loses to Meta Knight's tilts. Yes, just his tilts...and maybe N-Air/Shuttle Loop for aerial approaches.

Ivysaur loses to Meta Knight's movement/attack speed. He can either continually walk away from you or overwhelm you with attacks whenever he wants.

Charizard fares alright (as far as characters against Meta Knight go), but once he's put into the air, things are just balls for him.

If you're convinced that opponents won't camp you to death, it's doable, though.
 
Geenareeno

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Xyless said:
I figured with Marth, but I honestly can't imagine MK being as bad as a matchup as it is for Peach.

I'm still gonna go all PT this weekend, will only switch off if I get a Marth.
Click to expand...
What's your opinion on the Peach vs. Marth matchup. It's probably the biggest debated matchup. East Coast and West Coast disagree as well Europe i'm pretty sure. I think it was decided as 50:50.
 
Zigsta

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I should've stayed up to watch the snow fall, but I decided to turn in early just in case school didn't get canceled because I had a Spanish presentation due. And I canceled my date because I knew I was falling behind on Spanish. :(
 
Xyless

Xyless

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Geenareeno said:
What's your opinion on the Peach vs. Marth matchup. It's probably the biggest debated matchup. East Coast and West Coast disagree as well Europe i'm pretty sure. I think it was decided as 50:50.
Click to expand...
I'd personally say 55:45 Marth's favor, if anything because Peach has to force openings a lot of the time in order to get in. If both are playing at their top, I could see it getting to 50:50, though. I know Mikey's really good at the MU.
 
Ingoro

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So after a long discussion with the peach main of our country, he agrees with you and gave me several points why he believes it's 50/50 to. I don't know now either, I haven't played marth or peach seriously or even semi seriously, like I can't even do dancing blades and don't know how to use float >.>
 
Rizen

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Those Char recovery tips helped me in some games. I got 1 replay where I beat Pika :) . Not great but improving :/ . Does squirtle take more damage or knockback from electricity?
I need to improve my squirtle and not rely on Ivy's wicked Usmash as much.
 
Xyless

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*stolen from the mechanics topic since I know it's correct and it does a great job summarizing*

T-block said:
Elemental Weaknesses:

The weakness/resistance system is comparatively quite simple. It follows the type triangle that the three starters have followed in every Pokemon generation. Namely,

Fire > Grass > Water > Fire​

In Brawl, a weakness means an increase in knockback. Pokemon that are weak to a type will take 10% more knockback from a move of that type. Pokemon that are resistant will take 10% less. Both weaknesses and resistances are considered here. So in summary,
  • Squirtle is weak to grass, resistant to fire
  • Ivysaur is weak to fire, resistant to water
  • Charizard is weak to water, resistant to grass

Note that same-type resistance does not apply, and Squirtle does not resist water, Ivysaur does not resist grass, and Charizard does not resist fire. Furthermore, weaknesses and resistances are limited only to this triangle. Squirtle is not weak to Pikachu's Thunder, Ivysaur is not weak to Lucas' PK Freeze, etc.

Moves with type association:
  • Fire
    • Bowser- Fire Breath
    • C. Falcon- Falcon Punch
    • C. Falcon- Raptor Boost
    • C. Falcon- Falcon Kick
    • C. Falcon- f-smash
    • Charizard- Flamethrower
    • Charizard- d-throw
    • Charizard- f-air
    • Charizard- b-air
    • Charizard- n-air
    • Charizard- f-tilt
    • Diddy Kong- Barrel Rockets
    • Falco- Firebird
    • Fox- Firefox
    • Game and Watch- f-smash
    • Game and Watch- Chef (frying pan hit)
    • Game and Watch- Judgement 6
    • Ganondorf- u-tilt
    • Ike- Eruption
    • Link- Bombs
    • Lucas- PK Fire
    • Luigi- Fireball
    • Luigi- Green Missile
    • Luigi- Super Jump Punch (sweetspot)
    • Mario- Fireball
    • Mario- f-smash
    • Ness- PK Fire
    • Olimar- red pikmin attacks
    • ROB- Laser (close range)
    • ROB- u-smash
    • ROB- n-air
    • ROB- b-air
    • ROB- d-air
    • Samus- Missile
    • Samus- Bombs
    • Samus- u-smash
    • Samus- f-air
    • Samus- d-tilt
    • Sheik- Vanish
    • Snake- Grenades
    • Snake- Nikita
    • Snake- C4
    • Snake- f-smash
    • Snake- u-smash
    • Snake- d-smash
    • Toon Link- Bombs
    • Zelda- Din's Fire
    • Zelda- Farore's Wind
    • Zelda- u-air
    • Zero Suit Samus- Plasma Whip
  • Grass
    • Ivysaur- Bullet Seed
    • Ivysaur- Razor Leaf
    • Ivysaur- Vine Whip
    • Ivysaur- u-smash
    • Ivysaur- d-smash
    • Ivysaur- u-air
    • Ivysaur- d-air
    • Ivysaur- b-air
    • Ivysaur- f-air
    • Ivysaur- f-tilt
    • Ivysaur- d-tilt
  • Water
    • Mario- F.L.U.D.D
    • Squirtle- Water Gun
    • Squirtle- Waterfall
    • Squirtle- u-smash
    • Squirtle- d-smash
Credit for this list goes to Mr. Escalator

This system overall seems to help Squirtle and hurt Ivysaur, while Charizard remains indifferent. Since the only moves that other characters carry are of the fire-type, Ivysaur sees more knockback from them, while Squirtle sees less. Also, this is actually a good thing for Ivysaur when it comes to Charizard's Flamethrower, Bowser's Fire Breath, and Ness' PK Fire. The increase in knockback makes it easier for Ivysaur to escape. Stage hazards such as Norfair lava, Pirate Ship bombs and Pictochat flames are also considered fire-based knockback.
Click to expand...
So yeah, there's no electric-type weakness, just those elements that are based on those 3 characters' elements.

And we still haven't figured out how to get rid of the elemental weaknesses in the Pokemon yet, which is frustrating for Ivysaur in mods.


PokemonMasterIRL said:
Marth peach in PT general discussion? What's going on...
Click to expand...
That's the great thing about PT. So unpredictable.
 
Xyless

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Well, I got my butt handed to me at the tourney I went to today, but I want to give it mostly to being really nervous, especially against the Lucario I lost to in winners. Couldn't get a good flow with Ivysaur until MMs.

Did 2 MMs, won one. But this tourney was strictly so I could get a little tourney experience and see what to work on.

Apparently my Ivysaur is "Meno status" whatever THAT means. I hit so many random up B sweetspots with Ivy, considering I've practiced that so much over the years.
 
Xyless

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Magik0722 said:
Begin your arguments on my matchup list

Meta Knight: 35/65 (40/60 Squirtle, 25/75 Ivysaur, 35/65 Charizard)
Snake: 35/65 (40/60 Squirtle, 40/60 Ivysaur, 30/70 Charizard)
Wario: 35/65 (35/65 Squirtle, 30/70 Ivysaur, 50/50 Charizard)
Falco: 35/65 (45/55 Squirtle, 30/70 Ivysaur, 35/65 Charizard)
Diddy Kong: 50/50 (45/55 Squirtle, 45/55 Ivysaur, 55/45 Charizard)
King Dedede: 30/70 (30/70 Squirtle, 30/70 Ivysaur, 35/65 Charizard)
Marth: 30/70 (25/75 Squirtle, 35/65 Ivysaur, 40/60 Charizard)
Mr. Game & Watch: 55/45 (60/40 Squirtle, 45/55 Ivysaur, 50/50 Charizard)
Pikachu: 45/55 (55/45 Squirtle, 45/55 Ivysaur, 45/55 Charizard)
Olimar: 55/45 (60/40 Squirtle, 40/60 Ivysaur, 45/55 Charizard)
Ice Climbers: 35/65 (55/45 Squirtle, 30/70 Ivysaur, 40/60 Charizard)
R.O.B.: 50/50 (55/45 Squirtle, 45/55 Ivysaur, 50/50 Charizard)
Kirby: 55/45 (60/40 Squirtle, 50/50 Ivysaur, 55/55 Charizard)
Lucario: 45/55 (55/45 Squirtle, 40/60 Ivysaur, 45/55 Charizard)
Zero Suit Samus: 40/60 (45/55 Squirtle, 35/65 Ivysaur, 40/60 Charizard)
Toon Link: 40/60 (40/60 Squirtle, 40/60 Ivysaur, 40/60 Charizard)
Pit: 55/54 (55/45 Squirtle, 40/60 Ivysaur, 50/50 Charizard)
Donkey Kong: 55/45 (50/50 Squirtle, 55/45 Ivysaur, 45/55 Charizard)
Peach: 55/45 (60/40 Squirtle, 50/50 Ivysaur, 40/60 Charizard)
Luigi: 60/40 (60/40 Squirtle, 50/50 Ivysaur, 60/40 Charizard)
Fox: 60/40 (60/40 Squirtle, 45/55 Ivysaur, 55/45 Charizard)
Wolf: 55/45 (60/40 Squirtle, 45/55 Ivysaur, 50/50 Charizard)
Sonic: 55/45 (60/40 Squirtle, 55/45 Ivysaur, 50/50 Charizard)
Sheik: 40/60 (40/60 Squirtle, 40/60 Ivysaur, 45/55 Charizard)
Bowser: 45/55 (55/45 Squirtle, 25/75 Ivysaur, 60/40 Charizard)
Zelda: 55/45 (60/40 Squirtle, 55/45 Ivysaur, 55/45 Charizard)
Squirtle: 45/55 (50/50 Squirtle, 55/45 Ivysaur, 55/45 Charizard)
Ivysaur: 55/45 (55/45 Squirtle, 50/50 Ivysaur, 50/50 Charizard)
Charizard: 55/45 (45/55 Squirtle, 50/50 Ivysaur, 50/50 Charizard)
Ike: 40/60 (35/65 Squirtle, 40/60 Ivysaur, 60/40 Charizard)
Lucas: 60/40 (65/35 Squirtle, 45/55 Ivysaur, 55/45 Charizard)
Mario: 60/40 (65/35 Squirtle, 50/50 Ivysaur, 55/45 Charizard)
Ness: (75-25) (85/15 Squirtle, 45/55 Ivysaur, 70/30 Charizard)
Yoshi: 30/70 (25/75 Squirtle, 45/55 Ivysaur, 40/60 Charizard)
Samus: 60/40 (55/45 Squirtle, 60/40 Ivysaur, 55/45 Charizard)
Jigglypuff: 60/40 (65/35 Squirtle, 55/45 Ivysaur, 60/40 Charizard)
Captain Falcon: 60/40 (60/40 Squirtle, 55/45 Ivysaur, 60/40 Charizard)
Link: 60/40 (70/30 Squirtle, 60/40 Ivysaur, 55/45 Charizard)
Ganondorf: 60-40 (60/40 Squirtle, 40/60 Ivysaur, 65/35 Charizard)
Click to expand...
I wonder how this holds up nowadays

(lol @ Zelda's placement back then)
 
Rizen

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I edited the last response in the video thread and added some replays. Critiques are appreciated :) .
 
Steeler

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hey ziggy, how did your team do in the super bowl this year?































oh




they didn't make it this year?

nvm
 
Zatchiel

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TheReflexWonder said:
Try fighting a Meta Knight that just uses tilts/F-Smash and walks away until your character is tired.

Squirtle loses to Meta Knight's tilts. Yes, just his tilts...and maybe N-Air/Shuttle Loop for aerial approaches.

Ivysaur loses to Meta Knight's movement/attack speed. He can either continually walk away from you or overwhelm you with attacks whenever he wants.

Charizard fares alright (as far as characters against Meta Knight go), but once he's put into the air, things are just balls for him.

If you're convinced that opponents won't camp you to death, it's doable, though.
Click to expand...
I've played a lot of MKs with PT. I've lost to near all of them. Looks like i need to find an alternative to that MU x.x

Steeler said:
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Click to expand...
Get packed.
 
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