WTH are Ike players doing here?!

[Marr0097]

Ok so I'm board hopping in the character discussion thread and among all of the characters discussed only this one doesn't have at least one useful thread (from my point of view)

I mean, why fill these boards with "No one is allowed to flame Ike" or any of that sort when you could ignore them and focus more on Ike's metagame

since I'm also a fellow Ike player (just a sub though), allow me to give my insights be it helpful or not:

But what kind of character is Ike?

To keep it simple, Ike is a slow, laggy, incomprehensible by others, but powerful with sufficient knockback

almost all of his moves are considered one hit moves due to knockback so combo's, even though he has few, are not recommended for Ike's style of play

All in all, if we were to compare ike with others, he would definitely be considered mediocre...



















...This is were logical, analytical, and conceptual skills come in.

Unlike other characters, Ike is not a technical type of character where certain skills like the mortar slide, CG, or any other move requiring button combination is needed.

Ike is a barbaric swordsman to which sakurai perfectly did.

So the only thing that can compensate Ike's disadvantage is with our own skills.





I'll continue this later if anyone is interested in learning what skills am I talking about...

I'm open to discussion if anyone finds a flaw in my logic or just has a violent reaction

 

[YagamiLight]

Your analysis is adequate, though it has some errors and I think I'd be better off posting my opinion of Ike:

Ike is in a very select group of characters. He is the better of the two "Heavy Punisher" class characters, the other one being Ganondorf. This sort of fighter relies on the enemy to make an error, whether it is to slip up spacing, whiff an attack or in general to screw up.

At a glance, such a character archetype seems unfit for any sort of play beyond scrub level; namely once you master the dodge abilities, you win. Ike is a rather special case, however. He's top of the class in two highly coveted abilities: Range and Power. Nobody outclasses him in those areas.

Since he isn't beaten in his two best areas (With the others such as speed, recovery,etc being mediocre) he gains a boost that makes him much better than he would be by just having pretty good power and pretty good range. Errors are forced much more drastically by greatly outranging the enemy and the threshold for failure on the enemy's part is also much lower as they die earlier.

The reason Ike isn't going to be taking the tourney scene by storm is because his other things are mediocre, and most characters have some sort of way they can harass Ike. Whether it is by beating his mediocre speed or gimping his mediocre recovery, it is quickly evident that Ike has weaknesses that are fairly noticable.

With that said, they are not character breaking. Properly used, Ike mains should be able to shore up these poor moments in Ike. Simple things such as not using a laggy move unless you know it will hit (Ike has wind-up lag on most of his moves, though IASA frames do help him greatly cooldown wise), using Aether for recovery (As Aether is good and Quick Draw...isn't) will improve the quality of the gameplay.

Summary: With Ike, the player is the most important part. Ike definitely has the tools to compete and the ability to hide his own weaknesses if properly used, but how much effort are people willing to put in to do so? All in all if people are using Ike it is because they either like the Fire Emblem character or they like his playstyle, because it sure isn't that they are looking for easy wins, you won't find many of those with Ike.


And with that, I'm going to sleep.

 

[Marr0097]

props to you for a plausible reasoning


What you've said is the truth, the players are the most important aspect in bringing out the best in Ike

but the most important attributes these players must possess should be very much like what Kira and L has...

the ability to anylyze the player (note: not the character they're using), his attack and defensive patterns, and the way he responds to your playing style then using those knowledge to predict, control and outmaneuver your opponent making it feel like your one step earlier than him....

doing so may also affect him psychologically therefore rendering him more aggressive and predictable.

Am I right?

 

[YagamiLight]

props to you for a plausible reasoning


What you've said is the truth, the players are the most important aspect in bringing out the best in Ike

but the most important attributes these players must possess should be very much like what Kira and L has...

the ability to anylyze the player (note: not the character they're using), his attack and defensive patterns, and the way he responds to your playing style then using those knowledge to predict, control and outmaneuver your opponent making it feel like your one step earlier than him....

doing so may also affect him psychologically therefore rendering him more aggressive and predictable.

Am I right?

Bah, can't sleep.

You are correct in your assertion. An Ike player should be both mentally and physically one step ahead of the enemy. By doing this, you can make them move in a certain direction and then as they head in that direction your attack will begin to start and it will collide with them. By constantly identifying what they are doing, it will either force them to keep doing that hopelessly or to rush you. If they keep doing it, you've won. If they rush you they, as you said, become more aggressive and predictable, and that will lead to you punishing them for it.

And now I'm REALLY going to sleep.

 

[Marr0097]

lol true enough

bottom line is that you must keep your senses sharp in order for you to gain advantage over Ike's disadvantages and your opponent

now go to sleep

 

[Rykoshet]

I swang mah sword around.

 

[The_Rebel_Within]

Reading your conversation has made me realize that I need t be maining Ike or at least using him more. Tat's exatly how I play. I analyze my opponent and then strike.

 

[B0mbe1c]

Yeah, since Ike has no ATs or such, hes a basic fighter. His best moves are AAA, Nair, Fair. Because thats what alot of Ikes do alot. Also Upsmash is nice. We need some ATssszz.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike has a couple ATs, they just aren't useful. But ATs aren't that important.

MK doesn't have any ATs. Look how good he is. >_>

 

[B0mbe1c]

Mk just has uber priority, speed, and cheap/good moves. <____<

 

[HeroMystic]

Wow... I'm seeing Ike mainers I've never seen before. o.O

 

[Calixto]

After learning the basics (Nair, Fair spacing, A's, Pivot Hyphen Smash) the general Ike strategy boils down to 'kill they ***'.

 

[Marr0097]

Btw this thing I'm telling you guys applies to all characters, it's just that it is much more necessary for Ike in order to raise him up a notch

anyway, imma just eat then continue this thread

 

[•Col•]

Ike has a couple ATs, they just aren't useful. But ATs aren't that important.

MK doesn't have any ATs. Look how good he is. >_>

Infinite Dimensional Cape...

*cough*

 

[Sliq]

Bowser is stronger. Discuss.

 

[Empy]

Bowser is stronger. Discuss.

But Ike has a sword.

Quote the person above you.

 

[Tsukuyomi]

Ike has a couple ATs, they just aren't useful. But ATs aren't that important.

MK doesn't have any ATs. Look how good he is. >_>

Jab Cancel kinda counts as Ike's AT since he's better at it than everyone else (Lucario has a decent Jab Cancel, but you can't beat Ike's jab range)...

Other than that, there's a couple stupid ATs that does nothing like "Angelic Step" or "Counter Slide"...

 

[SaltyKracka]

Bowser is stronger. Discuss.

You lost all self-respect when you switched to Boozer. Discuss.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Bowser is stronger. Discuss.

Bowser is not overall stronger then Ike. Less KOing moves.

Discuss.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I mean, why fill these boards with "No one is allowed to flame Ike" or any of that sort when you could ignore them and focus more on Ike's metagame

see what happens when you ask for stupid stickies and get them.

Bowser is stronger. Discuss.

He isn't but shouldn't you change your sig now that OS uses MK and you use bowser?

 

[Sliq]

Bowser is not overall stronger then Ike. Less KOing moves.

Discuss.

I don't know about that. If anything, I'd imagine they have the same amount of KO moves.

Plus, Bowser's stronger moves are easier to land/are more versatile.

Ike does have a sword though.

You lost all self-respect when you switched to Boozer. Discuss.

I respect my character just fine. I think you are confusing you losing respect with me losing respect. I don't care what nobodies think about me anyways, so I guess your point is moot.

Also, I'm making a new sig.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Any move of Ike's that isn't a throw is a kill move. Including AAA combo. Some are just a bit more situational. (Like the jab. It KOs when the platform at SV is farthest to one side as it will get). Bowser's neutral B doesn't kill, and IIRC (this was a LONG time ago, could be wrong), Bowser's Dair has a set knockback, rendering unable to kill.

 

[MysticKenji]

Ike's dthrow kills at about 170% lol

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike's dthrow kills at about 170% lol

O_o

Learn something new everyday....

 

[YagamiLight]

O_o

Learn something new everyday....

Ike's Forward and Back Throws kill near the edge if you use the move and quickly do a jab combo on them

Spoiler

in real life

.

 

[ShinXDestiny]

Ike's Forward and Back Throws kill near the edge if you use the move and quickly do a jab combo on them

Spoiler

in real life

.

WHoa! -.- I gotta try that... I haven't learned to use my throws yet... -.- cause I just discovered the button!!!(dont own a wii or gamecube) My friend just randomly told me about it.

At his house
Friend-> (-.-) -You know about grabbing right?
me->(0.o) -What?!

I guess once you learn your dodge timing, hit timing(esp. those power hits). You're pretty much good(For now...). Learned them from fighting my friend who plays Meta knight with me(He haven't won against me for a long time).

Things I learned, dont attack if you know it wont hit(cause others will attack you(much experience)). Never charge(>+B) into a sucker thing(esp. Deedede's!!!).

 

[Ricky]

Bowser is stronger. Discuss.

LIES AND SLANDER!

Joking. Anyway, I've played with Ike more than fair enough times to realize how to use him accurate. Believe it or not, he's not all that slow as it seems. Usually yes most of his attacks take it's time to strike, however if you know how to use him he can be as fast as Marth by far. Most of his attacks are quick finish-offs or used for a good recover his up A (Not the smash attacks mind you!) forward A and so on.

Most of his Smash attacks tend to take a while to get a strike besides the Down A, to make things better he can actually chain grab characters his pace or worse, in any case making spikes much easier as well. To sum it up most of his attacks can be linked into good combos if you know how to use them the right way. In the end Ike suffers no bad qualities (Besides his speed it seems.) and has the power to back-up anything on the 'depending' situation.

What I usually do is use his down B counter as a save in a way, and just get to learn how all the other characters do. Though it's usually hell fighting characters like Falco with him once in a while...

 

[Marr0097]

This wasn't the purpose of this topic but meh... I'll jump on the bandwagon...


Snake is stronger among the two. Discuss.

 

[Sliq]

Any move of Ike's that isn't a throw is a kill move. Including AAA combo. Some are just a bit more situational. (Like the jab. It KOs when the platform at SV is farthest to one side as it will get). Bowser's neutral B doesn't kill, and IIRC (this was a LONG time ago, could be wrong), Bowser's Dair has a set knockback, rendering unable to kill.

Ike's up b and down b are kill moves (Bowsers are...up b fresh kills gw at 110%). Ike's d tilt isn't a reliable kill move, but Bowser's is (grab release ftw).

I play as Ike, mind you.

 

[Royta]

Bowser and Ike are totally diffirent, since I main both.

Ike has a more offensive game with good spacing and Bowser has more defensive options and edge options.
Bowser is more about endurance and keeping it cool, Ike has to keep building the pressure and wait for the opponent to make mistakes. Then again, turtling is just my style when using Boozer.

About Snake, he's pretty much everything Ike is and more. Stronger, heavier (?) and faster. Some of his tilts have insane range too (our ftilt has a small bit more).
Add that and projectiles and MASTER priority and well, you've got yourself a character that beats out ike easily.

Yet we still love our ike <3 why?

CUZ HE'S GOT TEH PH1R3 =D

 

[C.R.Z]

Off topic* can someone plz tell me wtf the deal is with ikes airdodge? i heard there was somthing unique about it compared to the rest of the cast

 

[Rykoshet]

Ike's up b and down b are kill moves (Bowsers are...up b fresh kills gw at 110%). Ike's d tilt isn't a reliable kill move, but Bowser's is (grab release ftw).

I play as Ike, mind you.

Reliable as in anywhere any time? If so then nothing ike has is a reliable kill move since you need to set up most of anything to leave someone open long enough to get hit by it. His dtilt is a **** good spike and as for not hitting it reliably, for the purposes it serves I actually land it rather often. Ike's least reliable kill move is actually his down smash since the front end of it sucks major **** and the back end requires someone to practically roll/walk into it to get killed by it. I've killed with neutral air at lower %'s than I've killed with the front end of down smash, and I'm not even kidding about that.

 

[HeroMystic]

Huh, so the back-end of D-Smash has more knockback than the front end?

 

[Kirk]

Huh, so the back-end of D-Smash has more knockback than the front end?

Indeed it does. Too bad Dsmash isn't all that useful. :/

 

[zealotscout]

I swang mah sword around.

laaaaawwl ryko that made me lol , dont know why but it reminded me of Uair and other stuffs, are you serious bout the Nair kills ryko? i'd like to see that , and yea i feel you guys bout the d smash , it doesnt help me that much , id rather bair tall characters but i feel helpless against smaller ones , anyways i feel we got a good discussion going on here.

 

[Rykoshet]

That's what I got it from, jumpman tends to say it when someone up airs with ike. And yeah I've managed to ko someone at 157 with nair, I've had to wait till 161 at some points to kill with the front end of down smash.

 

[doom dragon 105]

Ummm, if you played fire emblem then you would know Ike is not a barbaric he is a general -_-

 

[Ricky]

Ummm, if you played fire emblem then you would know Ike is not a barbaric he is a general -_-

Who called him that? In Fire Emblem he is based of as a boy becoming a man, leading an army later as a general. Anyway back to the topic, why are we comparing Ike to Bowser? Hell their nothing alike besides taking massive damage. As far as the purpose of the topic, doesn't seem much like Ike hating at all

 

[Marr0097]

Ummm, if you played fire emblem then you would know Ike is not a barbaric he is a general -_-

what I meant as barbaric is the way he fights in brawl...o.O

and I agree with the above poster.. bowser and Ike are completely different characters aside from being heavy and strong

 

[zealotscout]

what I meant as barbaric is the way he fights in brawl...o.O

and I agree with the above poster.. bowser and Ike are completely different characters aside from being heavy and strong

ike DOES fight for his friends remember? and bowser ?er...... has teh fire? o thats roy , sorry igot nothing .