World 8 - The Mario Match-Up Index [8-2: Luigi, Doc]

[JuanP_91]

Hello, the one MU I have a hard time with is ZSS. Whenever she's on the ground, I play neutral and stall her approaches with Fireball , use FLUUD, etc. The real problem I have is punishing her, and keeping up with her aerial mobility, not to mention her
Down B. Any tips are appreciated.

Also, I haven't played many good Sheiks, but I think I may have this problem with her as well.

 

[Xeze]

Well placed N-airs and b-airs are good against ZSS. Mario can combo her pretty well since she doesn't have the best options to get out of u-tilt and u-air strings. However she can also combo Mario with u-airs and finish off with a UpB, which can be really scary.
If she pulls her neutral B, you can cape it back and it's basically a free punish. Either grab and set up some follow ups or just f-smash her if the % is high enough for a kill.
Up smash is a great tool in Mario's arsenal to punish her aerial approaches.

 

[HeroMystic]

Well placed N-airs and b-airs are good against ZSS. Mario can combo her pretty well since she doesn't have the best options to get out of u-tilt and u-air strings. However she can also combo Mario with u-airs and finish off with a UpB, which can be really scary.

If she catches you in an U-air combo, DI towards her and Up-B will most likely whiff. If she catches you in Up-B, DI downward and this move shouldn't kill until the 100's. That minimizes the scary part of ZSS.

I don't have much of an opinion on ZSS, but it's probably even or our advantage. Her neutral game is sub-par and her blasters are horribly telegraphed. The MU is basically following specific instructions on how to punish her stuff, which I personally have not gotten down yet.

ZSS has the advantage in spacing but that's nothing new.

 

[Xeze]

In a custom environment, how well does Mario go against a Villager that abuses explosive balloon trip and counter timber? What options does he have to counter that playstyle?

 

[HeroMystic]

In a custom environment, how well does Mario go against a Villager that abuses explosive balloon trip and counter timber? What options does he have to counter that playstyle?

By @SolidSense

This is extremely free. Well, to some extent. A good Villager can still be trouble. But FLUDD and Gust Cape push Villager away from the ledge without any risk for Mario. Fireball zoning is effective along with Cape to reflect Villager's own projectiles once Mario has the lead. If Scalding FLUDD is taken, then Mario can get that lead pretty quickly with a few uses of that and his generally good aerial mobility, and then he can just sit back and Cape things for the rest of the match. Scalding FLUDD can also pop the explosive balloons without any risk to Mario. Super Jump Punch's semi-invincibility actually makes SJP'ing Villager as he's recovering with his slow balloon trip a possibility, but it won't gimp him outright, it's just pretty disruptive to his strategy. I still wouldn't recommend doing anything to Villager offstage, though, unless Mario loses the lead. With a lost lead you pretty much have to play riskily offstage, but the amount of risk you're taking vs. the amount of risk Villager is taking is not too bad. It's about 50:50 of you getting hit by balloons and Villager getting hit by your attacks or getting gimped outright. So yeah. Villager in the lead? 50:50. Mario in the lead? 60:40. I think Mario wins overall. It's definitely not Mario's usual gameplan, but a little adaptation does actually work wonders here.

In my experience, Villager probably does worse vs Mario if he goes for this strategy.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Hey guys, what are the thoughts on the Sheik matchup from the mindset of Mario mains?

 

[HeroMystic]

Hey guys, what are the thoughts on the Sheik matchup from the mindset of Mario mains?

I've never witnessed a Mario vs an optimal Sheik(i.e. defensive keepaway with fairs and needles), but other Mario mains state she beats Mario solidly. I can't say much more on that.

On the other hand if a Sheik doesn't camp and goes all in, Mario gets the job done. He combo breaks a good amount of her stuff with N-air and Up-B, and FLUDDing bouncing fish can lead to some openings. Sheik is also really easy to kill and Mario with good DI and avoiding being edgeguarded or baited into Up-B can live a very long time per stock. He just has to avoid being off-stage against her so he can avoid losing his stocks.

In the end, Mario has a lot going for him, and even with Sheik playing optimally he probably contends with having one of the best MUs against her.

 

[HeroMystic]

In a custom environment, how well does Mario go against a Villager that abuses explosive balloon trip and counter timber? What options does he have to counter that playstyle?

More stuff on this: http://smashboards.com/threads/comm...-camping-villager.396222/page-2#post-18843788

More specifically:

Any character with a projectile that can hit along the ground or lower can rely on that. Villager can use the pocket to be obnoxious in some match-ups, but in others, it will be no help. Our experimentation showed that Mario of all characters is uniquely good here. If Mario spaces near the max distance of fireballs on a stage with flat ground and just mashes B, he beats this for free. He fires his projectiles with such a rate that he gets a guaranteed hit on any non-invincible Villager ledge grab, and he will be standing far enough away that even the longest range exploding balloons cannot hit him. If Villager doesn't have a stock lead, Villager will be absolutely forced off the ledge by this simple tactic. Sadly and strangely, Luigi's Bouncing Fireball custom didn't work out nearly as well...

 

[smasher1001]

So, we had a regional in MI this past weekend, and i got thoroughly bopped from a lack of matchup knowledge vs 2 out of staters. Any marios here consistently face high level olimars or metaknights? Video's if you're aware of any good ones would also be helpful. Sadly I won't have the chance to practice vs them to learn the matchups since they were out of staters and we have no mains of those chars in our MI tournies.

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

Against Olimar you have an INCREDIBLY OP cape in this matchup.
You may know that you can cape not just his side b but his smashes as well.
Cape a purple f or down smash and you've taken a very salty stock from your opponent.

But as your cape gets better other tools of yours get worse. Olimar is tiny and hard to combo at certain percentages. He really outranges you when he has pikmin.
This next point may be contested but I feel that in a matchup where the olimar is unphased by your cape, the next thing I try doing is just killing Pikmin. One uncharged Upsmash will kill a pikmin attached to you (if you have space to throw it out its a good option) and d-air I find is a valid option for killing pikmin on you.

Mario has the mobility and the pressure to hit a naked olimar really hard for trying to pluck out more homies.

And finally I think the most important thing in this matchup is messing with olimar recovery. Even if you can't hit him off stage, provide pressure off stage for sure. If you knock a pikmin-less olimar off stage or force an olimar to toss all his pikmin away just so he can recover then you are in a great position. The only moves to even concern yourself with at that point are d-tilt and nair.

That's my experience against Olimar's so far, hope you found it helpful.

 

[JuanP_91]

Yesterday I fought a really good Rosalina in FG. I spent about an hour fighting her, and noticed SJP is an amazing OoS counter against her dash attack, and pretty effective to use constantly. Luma gets launched by it, and leaves Rosie really open, plus, is hardly punished since she won't get back on the ground fast AND will hardly miss since Rosalina is a giant.

When I was near the edge, I tried to bait a lot of quick moves like her DSmash, Tilts, or even Luma Shot, since she normally used them to stop me from punishing her mistakes rather than her slower aerials.

Finally, I learned you can't stop her approaches with Fireballs (kind of obvious :/ )

Idk if this should be useful for this MU, it just seemed something worth sharing.

 

[HeroMystic]

Finally, I learned you can't stop her approaches with Fireballs (kind of obvious :/ )

Rosalina approaching you is generally a best-case scenario for you. I wouldn't stop it, but punish it.

 

[JuanP_91]

Rosalina approaching you is generally a best-case scenario for you. I wouldn't stop it, but punish it.

The whole SJP strategy began when I realized that. She only approached me when it began proving effective to her, as I always tried to stop it with Fireballs. It didn't work, so then I tried to punish.

Thank you though, I'll keep that in mind.

 

[HeBrews]

Hi everyone, this is my first post. I seem to have a lot of trouble playing against Ness. Any pointers on how to approach him? I feel like Ness out ranges me with his fair

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hi everyone, this is my first post. I seem to have a lot of trouble playing against Ness. Any pointers on how to approach him? I feel like Ness out ranges me with his fair

You can sometimes beat it with U-smash or trade with B-air. Usually it's better to try to outspace him vertically with fullhops. If you know he really wants to commit to F-air, sometimes throwing a fireball at him is good to force him to stay on the ground more. D-tilt and Jab are your friends if you think he will dashgrab.

 

[HeBrews]

Cool, thanks! Is there anything else I should know to approaching ness? What can I do to gimp ness when he is recovering low? His custom up B is pretty good for recovery and I try and am unsuccessful in caping. Possibly just need to practice in the lab.
Ness and Sheik are two of my worst personal MU. I see a lot of sheik discussion going on as well which is cool. I don't know much about matchups, I kind of just find things out myself, which is why I registered.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Gust Cape and FLUDD are both quite good for messing up Ness's Up-B recovery, but you have to react fast to when he Up-Bs. Sometimes if you FLUDD him at the right time, this will cause him to shoot downwards as you push him back into his PK Thunder. Also if he does a predictable low recovery, it's worth harassing him with fireballs. I wouldn't bother contesting his Up-B directly otherwise as Mario.

 

[HeroMystic]

Tomorrow, we'll be resuming discussion on specific match-ups.

We'll be discussing three MUs per session. One Top Tier, one Mid Tier, one Low Tier. Customs will also be accounted for and given their own rating.

If you want to discuss a specific MU, feel free to request it before tomorrow at noon.

 

[smasher1001]

Rosalina and pit are my votes :D

 

[HeBrews]

Rosalina, megaman, any low tier

 

[HeroMystic]

Lets start this off.

World 8-1: Goddesses and Angels

vs
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• This discussion will last for one week. However if needed we can shorten or extend the duration.
• Discussion is more important than the rating, so do not feel pressured in giving a ratio.
• --That said, if you do rate the MU, please giving a descriptive synopsis as to why.
• All discussion will account for both Default and Customs.
• Keep this civil and lively.

 

[M@v]

If you guys got any ideas on how to approach Rosalina without getting wrecked, I'm all ears This is after you can manage to kill luma with a bthrow BTW.

 

[mario123007]

When using Mario I will try to aim at Luma by shooting fireballs or just Smash it away, Mario has faster attacks than Rosalina, so he can do a lot of combos on Rosalina.

Rosalina however, has a large hitbox, and utlizing Luma well can give Mario big headache. And can edgeguard Mario pretty easily.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Rosalina wins vs Mario 6/4 imo. Even though you can sorta easily kill Luma, she spaces Mario really well and getting juggled by her REALLY SUCKS. She's also really not as easy to juggle and edgeguard as Mario would like given Mario has to respect her disjoints not to mention her aerial acceleration is quite high. Fighting against good spacing is generally really difficult as Mario. Rosalina isn't an exception, the way I feel these days.

Pit and Dark Pit are also really difficult for Mario not really unlike Rosalina and I would say they win 6/4 also. F-tilt and F-smash are not easy for Mario to punish, and they get better grab reward than Mario does in this matchup due to more consistent throw combos. What especially makes this matchup annoying is that they actually have good KO throws, in particular, their KO throw is F-throw which is tactically much stronger than having a strong KO B-throw due to the ease of pressuring someone at the ledge with it.

Wondering if Gust Cape + EJP is optimal vs Rosalina who is one of the lightest characters in the game, and also because Gust Cape lets you reflect Shooting Star Bit while helping you against her juggles. Against the Pits though, their projectiles move slow enough that reflecting isn't that important. Shocking Cape in general is powerful against people trying to space Mario out and could be considered in those matchups.

Haven't tried vs Palutena much generally speaking, so I don't have much to say about it.

 

[mario123007]

Rosalina wins vs Mario 6/4 imo. Even though you can sorta easily kill Luma, she spaces Mario really well and getting juggled by her REALLY SUCKS. She's also really not as easy to juggle and edgeguard as Mario would like given Mario has to respect her disjoints not to mention her aerial acceleration is quite high. Fighting against good spacing is generally really difficult as Mario. Rosalina isn't an exception, the way I feel these days.

Pit and Dark Pit are also really difficult for Mario not really unlike Rosalina and I would say they win 6/4 also. F-tilt and F-smash are not easy for Mario to punish, and they get better grab reward than Mario does in this matchup due to more consistent throw combos. What especially makes this matchup annoying is that they actually have good KO throws, in particular, their KO throw is F-throw which is tactically much stronger than having a strong KO B-throw due to the ease of pressuring someone at the ledge with it.

Wondering if Gust Cape + EJP is optimal vs Rosalina who is one of the lightest characters in the game, and also because Gust Cape lets you reflect Shooting Star Bit while helping you against her juggles. Against the Pits though, their projectiles move slow enough that reflecting isn't that important. Shocking Cape in general is powerful against people trying to space Mario out and could be considered in those matchups.

Haven't tried vs Palutena much generally speaking, so I don't have much to say about it.

I give around 7/3 to 6/4... tovs

 

[M@v]

Anti feels the matchup is even, linking me to one of his Dabuz sets for reference. Is it actually even? I still have my reservations especially since its a wifi set, but its a good high level match example regardless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhWlEmpqgKM

For an offline match he goes Mario game 1 here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJPL8MgnQfo

Personally I'm still thinking 4:6, possibly worse. Mario's saving grace is how easily he can kill Luma

 

[A2ZOMG]

Anti feels the matchup is even, linking me to one of his Dabuz sets for reference. Is it actually even? I still have my reservations especially since its a wifi set, but its a good high level match example regardless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhWlEmpqgKM

For an offline match he goes Mario game 1 here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJPL8MgnQfo

Personally I'm still thinking 4:6, possibly worse. Mario's saving grace is how easily he can kill Luma

Anti got some really insanely good reads in both the matches presented. I don't think that really says much about the matchup, personally, given realistically it's not that easy for Mario to get KOs in this matchup. Plus Dabuz running into fireballs for seemingly little reason as far as I'm concerned and flubbing his recovery.

 

[HeroMystic]

Gonna say again if you throw out ratios, make sure you give a symopsis as to why. A2Z's synopsis is a good standard.

 

[mario123007]

Gonna say again if you throw out ratios, make sure you give a symopsis as to why. A2Z's synopsis is a good standard.

Understood.

 

[Fluttershy]

For Palutena you'll want to know what her specials are that she's using. The ones you'll have to look out for are Super Speed and Lightweight. you should never feel safe recovering when she has Lightweight in effect. Her off-game has A LOT of range. If she loses the effects of LW while she's Off-stage don't assume she will be KOed, SS and Warp can cover the after effects of LW pretty well. Also be wary of taking her to any stage with platforms she can remain under the effects of Lightweight indefinitely if she can renew it. Super speed hits with ram damage and can lead into Bair (perfect combo). SS as a recovery can make Gimping attempts impossible. Don't reflect AR they'll never hit her back with the angle they are fired at. If she's using Explosive Flame the Final hit goes through shields.

She has a vulnerability underneath her with Dair being too fast and not enough reach so Uair strings work well against her. IIrc she can brake out of the Utilt string with Nair but with little knockback. Palu's Jab (1st hit) can lead to a free grab (they usually use Dthrow and can combo that into Usmash, Uair or Nair with the first two being Viable Kill options. If she has Lightweight during the Grab expect a Nair to Uair combo (Nair launches you in-front of her unless you are behind her after the last hit and the string fails). Jab to Fsmash can be used as a surprise if you aren't expecting it. You'll want to watch what option she takes and try to avoid it correctly. The Top portion of Usmash is the weakest part of the move. Learning how far up the initial Pillar can hit you at can be beneficial.

Her flaws are the ending Lag on the majority of her moves and approach (not counting specials) you'll want get her to approach Dash attack can negate attacks but is predictable and very punishable if shielded. Bair has the same problem and has the same properties as Dash attack. Fair come out quickly and has little landing lag . Unfortunately for Palu, Mario is a relatively short character and can duck Fair making it even harder for Palutena to hit you. with Super Speed and Lightweight (and Jump glide if they use it) makes approaching easier for Palutena because of how quickly she moves. Jump Glide glides over any fireballs that are moving on the ground. The ending lag on her tilts, and Smash attacks are really bad. F and Dsmash both have wind boxes (Fsmash has a stronger push than Dsmash

imo shock and Gust cape seem to be better options than normal Cape for this MU, SJP, any version of flood works and Normal fireballs. overall I'd have to say Palutena vs Mario (no customs) 60-40 Mario (customs) 45-55 in Palutena's favor SS and Lightweight make a huge difference for her..

Will look over to see if i missed anything a little later on today..

 

[tconan]

For Rosalina and Luma vs. Mario, 40:60 Rosalina wins.
Mario pros:
-can edgeguard Rosalina
-up smash kills early
-can somewhat juggle Rosalina
-back throw, dair, and some other moves can be used to separate Luma from Rosalina
Rosalina pros:
-down b and Luma as a meat shield make fireball harder to use effectively
-can edgeguard and juggle Mario very well
-disjointed hitboxes make Mario have a very hard time getting in

Overall, Mario has to outspace Rosa and capitalize on the slightest mistakes that Rosa makes, while Rosalina can just wait for Mario to approach and punish him for it.

 

[Mr.Lee]

For Rosalina and Luma vs. Mario, 40:60 Rosalina wins.
Mario pros:
-can edgeguard Rosalina
-up smash kills early
-can somewhat juggle Rosalina
-back throw, dair, and some other moves can be used to separate Luma from Rosalina
Rosalina pros:
-down b and Luma as a meat shield make fireball harder to use effectively
-can edgeguard and juggle Mario very well
-disjointed hitboxes make Mario have a very hard time getting in

Overall, Mario has to outspace Rosa and capitalize on the slightest mistakes that Rosa makes, while Rosalina can just wait for Mario to approach and punish him for it.

Also note that Nair goes through any Luma attack. I use Nair to enter and go for the Bthrow separating luma from Rosie. Or when falling, If well spaced, Nair will go through Rosie's Uair making it easier to land and not get juggled, but that Halo will mess you up. though so it depends on how you see the situation. I played with a Rosie for awhile and found this useful in tournament. Retreating Bairs are pretty safe and also help with resetting the neutral. The match up is honestly difficult to pull off but can be done.

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

Super speed hits with ram damage and can lead into Bair (perfect combo).

Super Speed also true combos into U-air and U-smash at %s where those moves kill.

It's very important to know what Palutena can do with SS. It may look linear, but it gives her access to a wealth of options. She can jump out of it allowing her to zip across the screen with an aerial or JC U-smash, she can Dash Attack out of it, she can grab out of it, she can use the momentum gained from it to wavebounce Auto Retical/Explosive Flame, if she initiates it in the air she can cancel the momentum from it completely and stop on a dime with no lag whatsoever (SS has a hitbox at startup so she can use this as a pressure/mix-up tool and if it hits she can combo into U-smash or any of her aerials), among other things.

It's basically a Spin Dash that trades raw damage for extreme flexibility. Because of this, don't expect a good Palutena to get predictable with SS. Shielding is safe against a decent chunk of these options (you won't be punishing anything tho; SS is safe on block because of how fast it is), but she can still grab out of it and that could lead to a stock even at mid-%s. Your response to SS should be as unpredictable and varied as the move itself. Don't respond to it a certain way every time or you'll get blown up.

Her flaws are the ending Lag on the majority of her moves and approach (not counting specials) you'll want get her to approach Dash attack can negate attacks but is predictable and very punishable if shielded. Bair has the same problem and has the same properties as Dash attack. Fair come out quickly and has little landing lag . Unfortunately for Palu, Mario is a relatively short character and can duck Fair making it even harder for Palutena to hit you.

I dunno about that, optimally spaced B-airs seem to be safe on block against Mario. I rarely get grabbed, jabbed, U-smashed, etc. OoS by Mario and when I do it's obvious that it's because I messed up the spacing. I've also never had a problem with Mario ducking under my F-airs. That shouldn't be possible seeing as Jigglypuff can't even crouch under it (same goes for B-air).

Anyways, that's my two cents. I would actually talk about the matchup and stuff, but the only Mario main I know has like the world's worst connection so I don't have a lot of good experience in it.

 

[Teve31]

Hi everyone, this is my first post. I seem to have a lot of trouble playing against Ness. Any pointers on how to approach him? I feel like Ness out ranges me with his fair[/quote
Ness is easy man all you need to do is get him to use his double jump off stage and then use ur fludd against his up b and you're solid

 

[Fluttershy]

Super Speed also true combos into U-air and U-smash at %s where those moves kill.

It's very important to know what Palutena can do with SS. It may look linear, but it gives her access to a wealth of options. She can jump out of it allowing her to zip across the screen with an aerial or JC U-smash, she can Dash Attack out of it, she can grab out of it, she can use the momentum gained from it to wavebounce Auto Retical/Explosive Flame, if she initiates it in the air she can cancel the momentum from it completely and stop on a dime with no lag whatsoever (SS has a hitbox at startup so she can use this as a pressure/mix-up tool and if it hits she can combo into U-smash or any of her aerials), among other things.

It's basically a Spin Dash that trades raw damage for extreme flexibility. Because of this, don't expect a good Palutena to get predictable with SS. Shielding is safe against a decent chunk of these options (you won't be punishing anything tho; SS is safe on block because of how fast it is), but she can still grab out of it and that could lead to a stock even at mid-%s. Your response to SS should be as unpredictable and varied as the move itself. Don't respond to it a certain way every time or you'll get blown up.



I dunno about that, optimally spaced B-airs seem to be safe on block against Mario. I rarely get grabbed, jabbed, U-smashed, etc. OoS by Mario and when I do it's obvious that it's because I messed up the spacing. I've also never had a problem with Mario ducking under my F-airs. That shouldn't be possible seeing as Jigglypuff can't even crouch under it (same goes for B-air).

Anyways, that's my two cents. I would actually talk about the matchup and stuff, but the only Mario main I know has like the world's worst connection so I don't have a lot of good experience in it.

I was being Rushed near end of making the Wall of Text so I know I missed a few things.. including SS' options

Thought that ducking would make Fair Harder to land lol. There is spacing on Bair that will allow Palutena to go unpunished if Mario doesn't move (if he moves toward Palutena just a bit he may be able to punish with a dash grab but I'm not 100% sure..)

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

Thought that ducking would make Fair Harder to land lol.

Technically it does because Mario's hurtbox becomes smaller, but in an actual match it hardly matters at all. Palutena should almost always use F-air as close to the ground as possible since it can combo into itself, B-air, and Dash Attack.

There is spacing on Bair that will allow Palutena to go unpunished if Mario doesn't move (if he moves toward Palutena just a bit he may be able to punish with a dash grab but I'm not 100% sure..)

I'm not sure that would work either. B-air does a decent amount of shieldstun (deals 15 damage to shields, 16 when fresh) and it pushes opponents back a bit too. Plus, isn't Mario's grab range small in this game? (Feels kinda weird having to ask questions about Mario for once, lol)

 

[GwJ]

Hi, the ROB boards are discussing the matchup: http://smashboards.com/threads/r-o-b-matchup-analysis-17-mario.401048/

 

[Douchuumen]

Is there a general consensus on Mario's bad matchups outside of Rosalina?

 

[HeroMystic]

Is there a general consensus on Mario's bad matchups outside of Rosalina?

Not really. There's not much agreement that Rosalina is a bad MU either.

We only generally agree on Sheik and Luigi being one of Mario's harder MUs.

 

[LancerStaff]

Pit(two) main over here. Personally, I'd say the matchup is a bit in Pit's favor. He's built much like Mario, boasting well-rounded stats and plenty of combos. Pit is ever so slightly slower and has a bit less KO power, but has tons of range and a great projectile.

It's completely futile to reflect Pit's arrows. Decent players will angle them down onto Mario so they'll fly away from Pit when reflected. Great players will angle them up into Mario so they hit the stage and he can fire another right away. You can use the cape for protection after being launched if you want, but considering we go for things like shield pokes with our arrows, it's probably not the best idea.

Pit's Dspecial can reflect, but it's really just for things like Samus's charge shot. Might be useful against fire orb... Don't think anybody uses that though. In this matchup we use it for two things, shoving Mario's recovery around, and midair protection. Mario's recovery is pretty linear so it's not that hard to catch him with it. Word's still out on if it's actually useful for protection, but when I do use it Mario has to be patient. Moves like Mario's Uair can hit him from underneath but it's a one-in-a-million shot. Otherwise, Mario has to wait until we hit the ground to become vulnerable.

Sspecial's super armor is finicky, but it's best to not challenge it with Mario. Grabs beat it, but Mario's might be too short. Early on we use it to punish for an easy 11%, later we use it for late (140% with no rage or freshness) KOs.

Pit's recovery seems linear at first, but his Uspecial will bring him back all the way from the bottom blastzone. As long as Pit is patient he'll make it back against Mario.

Pit's aerials are fast and have tons of reach. They can be used out of a SH laglessly, and Fair and Bair can be FFed midway through. I wouldn't challenge him in the air with Mario.

I make it sound like Pit just walks over Mario... But Mario's KO moves are just that much more effective then Pit's. Compared to Pit he can just throw his out.

As far as customs go, fast fireball is the clear winner as it gives Mario a significant advantage in midrange. Pick what you want otherwise. Pit's customs are fairly underwhelming, but the best thing he gets is guiding bow, which can trap Mario pretty easily but loses it's usefulness in camping.