World 8 - The Mario Match-Up Index [8-2: Luigi, Doc]

[Airboysteel]

How is ROB giving you trouble?

Having trouble with ROB Nair. Even when I blocked his Nair it can auto cancel into something else like jabs or tilts. This is my main problem with this match up.

 

[Jaax]

How do I beat an Olimar that constantly rolls away and throws Pikmin? it's extremely annoying!
I would appreciate it if someone helped, cheers!

 

[HeroMystic]

Having trouble with ROB Nair. Even when I blocked his Nair it can auto cancel into something else like jabs or tilts. This is my main problem with this match up.

ROB's N-air is the only real safe option he has vs Mario. Either challenge it with Up-B if he approaches with it, or respect it and move away from it. Once Mario is inside ROB pretty much has little to no options. After that it's just a matter of getting a kill.

How do I beat an Olimar that constantly rolls away and throws Pikmin? it's extremely annoying!
I would appreciate it if someone helped, cheers!

Read the roll and punish it. U-Smash will kill any pikmin that sticks on you, forcing Olimar to pluck, which can be punished. If you want, you can also cape pikmin back at him, which I recommend against his F-Smash.

 

[meleebrawler]

OK, I can't take this anymore.

@ HeroMystic , who is your avatar and where does she come from?

 

[A2ZOMG]

She's from Mischief Makers. Look it up.

Also D-air or Cape usually is a better answer to Pikmin toss.

 

[HeroMystic]

OK, I can't take this anymore.

@ HeroMystic , who is your avatar and where does she come from?

Marina Liteyears from Mischief Makers. The greatest creation ever.

 

[Xeze]

I've seen people refering here to Mario's bad matchups. Let's reverse this.
Who do think are Mario's most favorable matchups?

 

[HeroMystic]

Good question.

I feel Mario has a good MU against ROB, Megaman, the Links, Jiggs, and maybe Falcon (even at worst). I still have to get better and continue exploring each MU in order to completely answer that question.

 

[Xeze]

I feel Robin is a good matchup too.

 

[Incendiary]

I feel that Mario reks Villager. Cape game strong

 

[Airboysteel]

I feel that Mario reks Villager. Cape game strong

The Mario vs Villager MU.I feel like If Mario didn't let Villager uses his/her set up ( like the side/down specials) Then Mario has a good shot at winning.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Good question.

I feel Mario has a good MU against ROB, Megaman, the Links, Jiggs, and maybe Falcon (even at worst). I still have to get better and continue exploring each MU in order to completely answer that question.

I don't think we have the advantage against Link when he's played properly (there's an outstanding lack of good Link players generally speaking). We can't exploit his weakness in midrange as well as other characters, and even though he gets comboed by Mario easily, he does really huge damage per hit to make up for it. He's actually very difficult for Mario to approach when moves like his N-air, U-smash, and Jab can beat out a lot of Mario's attacks head on, and his projectiles are good at controlling space for better reward than Mario's fireballs. His Bombs and Arrows also can't usually be Caped on reaction, and Caping the boomerang doesn't do damage. While he can be gimped slightly more easily than some characters by N-airing him if he doesn't have a Bomb on hand, he also doesn't really have difficulty edgeguarding Mario's Up-B with D-air (fortunately this kills much later than it did in Brawl provided he doesn't get an extremely lucky meteor).

Toon Link is easier for Mario because he has less range and Caping his projectiles is actually better, plus he doesn't have Link's Jab KO confirms making it safer to get in close range against him.

We go even at best against Jiggs imo when they actually play a ground game and use N-air to edgeguard. Mario actually has to play respectfully against Jiggs Dashgrab and DA (she actually controls more space in midrange than Mario does on the ground as a result of this), and she also has one of the lowest crouches in the game which makes it risky to commit to aerials if she doesn't commit to the air first. When she also plays on the ground, you can't really outplay her with Smashes the same way and you're more forced to KO her at around 120 with B-throw.

Mario does probably win against ROB 55/45. Vs Mega Man is hard to say given there's also not a lot of people that play Mega Man really well. Vs Falcon seems even, you both can abuse the crap out of each other in this matchup off a good read.

Mario's other favorable matchups that I'm aware of are probably Little Mac, DeDeDe, Kirby, and Robin. Little Mac actually kinda laughs at Mario in neutral, but his survivability is such a joke against FLUDD/Cape edgeguards that Mario wins by virtue of risk/reward. Mario outcamps DeDeDe which kills DeDeDe's neutral game completely when he can't abuse Gordo zoning. Kirby while short is one of few characters that can do less than Mario in midrange because he also has a really crappy DA and doesn't move very fast generally speaking, plus his grab reward is worse in this game. Robin's game falls apart when you easily outmaneuver Arcfire with SH airdodge -> aerial and when he's also actually much easier than most characters for Mario to gimp.

 

[TheMkrds]

Hello, im a competitive smash since brawl and mario has been my main in all iterations of smash, and in sm4sh is supper fun and good to play but i have been in problems when im agaisnt a puff.


approaching a puff is quite difficult for me, always gimping, throwing bairs and nairs and fair to recover for the ledge, puff aerials have very low cooldown and my playstyle relays on grabs after an attack so i have to spam fireballs to do cheap damage, and if i'm lucky some uair string to make the most of my damage, and im getting so much trouble to kill puffs(normally i'll end a stock with a down-smash, forward-smash), after a while i start getting nervous and spam up-smash and there is when puff have an opportunity to put a rest on me.


so any tips against the second most annoying character is sm4as(first rosalina)


Thanks in advance.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

How do you guys handle tough Ike players? Let's assume he can recover under FLUDD and past the Cape.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hello, im a competitive smash since brawl and mario has been my main in all iterations of smash, and in sm4sh is supper fun and good to play but i have been in problems when im agaisnt a puff.


approaching a puff is quite difficult for me, always gimping, throwing bairs and nairs and fair to recover for the ledge, puff aerials have very low cooldown and my playstyle relays on grabs after an attack so i have to spam fireballs to do cheap damage, and if i'm lucky some uair string to make the most of my damage, and im getting so much trouble to kill puffs(normally i'll end a stock with a down-smash, forward-smash), after a while i start getting nervous and spam up-smash and there is when puff have an opportunity to put a rest on me.


so any tips against the second most annoying character is sm4as(first rosalina)


Thanks in advance.

Against a Puff that spams aerials, shield and B-air/U-air out of shield as necessary. You can generally speaking trade favorably with B-airs if she insists on playing an air game against you given Mario's aerials are also pretty fast. Don't worry too much about landing U-smash unless you see her making a commitment that you can react to. Just focus on dealing consistent damage, and if necessary KO her with B-throw at 120%. She becomes a lot harder to play against when she mixes up her air game with a good ground game though. In general against Puff, it's really important to play as reactively as you can to her positioning, and try your best to go for attacks when you are certain your spacing is good.

How do you guys handle tough Ike players? Let's assume he can recover under FLUDD and past the Cape.

I honestly think this matchup is difficult to play on both sides. Mostly because both characters lack really easy KO confirms in this matchup. Ike is safer in neutral and probably overall has the advantage because of that, but Mario juggles him really easily (like, D-throw early on is like a free 60% on Ike because Ike's options against juggles are that terrible). Both characters have to make fairly hard reads during juggles though to actually get the KO.

I theorycraft Ganon do I? What neutral does Mario just let Ganon hit you with dtilt? But I might as well share my notable Mario vs. Ganon experience:

1. I was facing my good friend Gunblade in tournament. If you watched Apex 2015, you heard him commentate. He went Ganon game 2 and I got caught by some early Ganon tricks and got killed very fast. He only took about 15% before he killed me. However, I started to zone with fireballs and pressure safely. As soon as I got in, it was free combos for days. Ganon can't break combos. Even if you try to wizard foot, I can hit you before it comes out. Easy kill off the side and then a cape gimp for the win.
2. I'm playing on NAKAT's stream with a few members of LoF. NAKAT started a charity drive to help False go to final battle in Cali. Someone on stream said they would donate $10 if False landed a warlock punch. While he struggles to land it (which he eventually does) I start talking on stream on how I think Ganon is a terrible character and how he can't do anything. Eazy, a notable player from NY, said he would donate $15 if I beat his Ganon with my Mario. I double two stocked him.

You don't even state Ganon's obvious and glaring weakness: he's extremely slow. His movement is sluggish, his start up is slow, his end lag is long, (there are a few safe moves, don't get me wrong) and he's easily punished. On the other hand, Mario is quite fast with quick start up, low cooldown and little lag. This allows Mario to focus on his strength and rush down Ganon to rack up damage very easily. You don't even mention speed and that's a huge problem.

Your number and description don't add up. You make it sound much worse than 45/55 disadvantage.

I crossed the line with the attack. You deserve an apology for that. I'm sorry. However, do not say that I've never listened to your part. I've listened countless times on what your perspective is. And I don't mean any disrespect when I say this, but I just disagree and believe you're wrong on a lot of things. But who knows? Maybe I'm the wrong one and Mario was nerfed from his already low tier form.

I personally didn't want to watch APEX after hearing drama about the seeding and other dumb things that happened earlier, and because I generally am never excited about watching tournaments until videos get posted and I get to view things at my leisure.

Now as I stated earlier, Mario does combo and juggle Ganon pretty reliably. You can maintain a lot of momentum onstage basically by spamming D-air in this matchup once you're in given Ganon doesn't have an extremely fast close range option to stop it once you're close. Thing is, eventually Ganondorf will be aiming to go for the ledge. One of Mario's biggest problems generally speaking is he actually does a very poor job of pressuring this. He has very few ways to easily end a stock against characters who reset towards the ledge, and his ledge traps are generically mediocre at best. This matchup quite often resets to neutral after the initial low% shenanigans that occur, where Ganondorf generally speaking has the advantage.

Ganon's mobility to be frank isn't really a weakness against Mario minus in situations where he's getting juggled and does not have the space to reset towards the ledge. What's more important than that is Ganondorf controls space better than Mario does in neutral with attacks like N-air, DA, D-tilt, and Wizkick. This isn't to explicitly say Mario will get hit by these moves in neutral. But he has to put in a significant amount of effort to respect these moves, and Ganondorf has other responses to take advantage of this that are also very rewarding.

Also, Mario doesn't really zone Ganondorf that well. If he tries to approach from the air, even with a fireball, all Ganon has to do to counter this is N-air. So basically, approaching from the air is never a seriously good option for Mario, forcing him to base more of his offense on the ground, where he's overall fairly limited. Mario basically can't really use a fireball with forward momentum safely in this matchup given Ganon's anti-air is extremely good and rewarding, meaning he will mostly try to force Ganon to approach with fireballs. Now, a good player fundamentally will powershield the majority of these, although they do prevent Ganondorf from dashing recklessly. However this doesn't make the situation good for Mario. He still has to get past Ganon's tilts and N-air. The ground game is to an extent a guessing game where technically, Ganon can be sorta reliably punished if he blatantly whiffs a ground move given Mario's mobility, however outside of Mario's low% combo game, the reward Ganon gets from landing a hit is far greater than what Mario gets both in terms of damage and positional advantage. Keeping in mind that none of Mario's attacks directly beat Ganon's primary pokes in neutral.

Now I'm glad you can cite that you have Ganon players to play against, but honestly, the majority of Ganon mains I've seen play this matchup (from videos) don't actually know this matchup, and I don't ever get the impression that they're seriously disadvantaged. Many Ganon mains I've encountered don't use N-air nearly as much as I or the other Smashboards Ganon mains do (I've only honestly seen Gunblade play once, and it was basically in the 3DS era, so I don't know much else about his playstyle). And all I can say is the move very noticeably limits Mario's options in neutral and forces him to play on Ganon's terms. Mario doesn't just get to rush down Ganon in this matchup. He has to trick his way in past Ganon's significantly superior midrange options. He DOES have a lot of punish opportunities which makes the matchup quite winnable for him, but they require reads, and when they don't work, Ganon overall gets more reward in more situations.

The other thing is, Cape and FLUDD edgeguards as I stated earlier are both situational, and often easily avoided except in situations where poor DI is involved given Mario can really only cover specific options with those moves. So even though Ganondorf has a punishable recovery, it's often quite difficult for Mario to usually do much to Ganon's recovery that isn't simply free damage. Free damage is significant, and it's part of where Mario can maintain momentum that keeps the matchup winnable. However in contrast, when Ganondorf goes for an edgeguard, he typically ends a stock extremely reliably by just landing any aerial. So overall, I would easily believe that in general offstage situations, they're more in Ganon's favor. It's also worth keeping in mind that it can be very dangerous for Mario to edgeguard Ganon in situations where he has enough space to double jump U-air, while Mario in contrast isn't quite as scary to edgeguard outside of Up-B stage spike potential.

I say the matchup is 55/45, and not more in Ganon's favor because Mario's juggle potential is very good and Ganondorf has to go through fairly significant effort to get out of Mario's juggles, which aside from the near guaranteed ~60% or so keep Ganon in awkward positions where he often reaches danger percents pretty quickly. I cite resetting towards the ledge a lot because it's good against Mario, and you have to understand that this ultimately IS punishable and something Mario can maintain momentum on, and occasionally make some difficult hard reads for KO opportunities. However the overall possibility of ledge resets putting Ganondorf back in neutral where he still outperforms Mario outweighs Mario's close range control game, and Mario's gimp potential, even if a threat, is nowhere near consistent enough to be better than Ganon's multitude of extremely viable KO options.

 

[Macchiato]

http://smashboards.com/threads/old-...-match-up-discussion-discussing-mario.390094/

Would any of yew help us with the Mario Match-Up?

 

[mario123007]

Against a Puff that spams aerials, shield and B-air/U-air out of shield as necessary. You can generally speaking trade favorably with B-airs if she insists on playing an air game against you given Mario's aerials are also pretty fast. Don't worry too much about landing U-smash unless you see her making a commitment that you can react to. Just focus on dealing consistent damage, and if necessary KO her with B-throw at 120%. She becomes a lot harder to play against when she mixes up her air game with a good ground game though. In general against Puff, it's really important to play as reactively as you can to her positioning, and try your best to go for attacks when you are certain your spacing is good.

I honestly think this matchup is difficult to play on both sides. Mostly because both characters lack really easy KO confirms in this matchup. Ike is safer in neutral and probably overall has the advantage because of that, but Mario juggles him really easily (like, D-throw early on is like a free 60% on Ike because Ike's options against juggles are that terrible). Both characters have to make fairly hard reads during juggles though to actually get the KO.

I personally didn't want to watch APEX after hearing drama about the seeding and other dumb things that happened earlier, and because I generally am never excited about watching tournaments until videos get posted and I get to view things at my leisure.

Now as I stated earlier, Mario does combo and juggle Ganon pretty reliably. You can maintain a lot of momentum onstage basically by spamming D-air in this matchup once you're in given Ganon doesn't have an extremely fast close range option to stop it once you're close. Thing is, eventually Ganondorf will be aiming to go for the ledge. One of Mario's biggest problems generally speaking is he actually does a very poor job of pressuring this. He has very few ways to easily end a stock against characters who reset towards the ledge, and his ledge traps are generically mediocre at best. This matchup quite often resets to neutral after the initial low% shenanigans that occur, where Ganondorf generally speaking has the advantage.

Ganon's mobility to be frank isn't really a weakness against Mario minus in situations where he's getting juggled and does not have the space to reset towards the ledge. What's more important than that is Ganondorf controls space better than Mario does in neutral with attacks like N-air, DA, D-tilt, and Wizkick. This isn't to explicitly say Mario will get hit by these moves in neutral. But he has to put in a significant amount of effort to respect these moves, and Ganondorf has other responses to take advantage of this that are also very rewarding.

Also, Mario doesn't really zone Ganondorf that well. If he tries to approach from the air, even with a fireball, all Ganon has to do to counter this is N-air. So basically, approaching from the air is never a seriously good option for Mario, forcing him to base more of his offense on the ground, where he's overall fairly limited. Mario basically can't really use a fireball with forward momentum safely in this matchup given Ganon's anti-air is extremely good and rewarding, meaning he will mostly try to force Ganon to approach with fireballs. Now, a good player fundamentally will powershield the majority of these, although they do prevent Ganondorf from dashing recklessly. However this doesn't make the situation good for Mario. He still has to get past Ganon's tilts and N-air. The ground game is to an extent a guessing game where technically, Ganon can be sorta reliably punished if he blatantly whiffs a ground move given Mario's mobility, however outside of Mario's low% combo game, the reward Ganon gets from landing a hit is far greater than what Mario gets both in terms of damage and positional advantage. Keeping in mind that none of Mario's attacks directly beat Ganon's primary pokes in neutral.

Now I'm glad you can cite that you have Ganon players to play against, but honestly, the majority of Ganon mains I've seen play this matchup (from videos) don't actually know this matchup, and I don't ever get the impression that they're seriously disadvantaged. Many Ganon mains I've encountered don't use N-air nearly as much as I or the other Smashboards Ganon mains do (I've only honestly seen Gunblade play once, and it was basically in the 3DS era, so I don't know much else about his playstyle). And all I can say is the move very noticeably limits Mario's options in neutral and forces him to play on Ganon's terms. Mario doesn't just get to rush down Ganon in this matchup. He has to trick his way in past Ganon's significantly superior midrange options. He DOES have a lot of punish opportunities which makes the matchup quite winnable for him, but they require reads, and when they don't work, Ganon overall gets more reward in more situations.

The other thing is, Cape and FLUDD edgeguards as I stated earlier are both situational, and often easily avoided except in situations where poor DI is involved given Mario can really only cover specific options with those moves. So even though Ganondorf has a punishable recovery, it's often quite difficult for Mario to usually do much to Ganon's recovery that isn't simply free damage. Free damage is significant, and it's part of where Mario can maintain momentum that keeps the matchup winnable. However in contrast, when Ganondorf goes for an edgeguard, he typically ends a stock extremely reliably by just landing any aerial. So overall, I would easily believe that in general offstage situations, they're more in Ganon's favor. It's also worth keeping in mind that it can be very dangerous for Mario to edgeguard Ganon in situations where he has enough space to double jump U-air, while Mario in contrast isn't quite as scary to edgeguard outside of Up-B stage spike potential.

I say the matchup is 55/45, and not more in Ganon's favor because Mario's juggle potential is very good and Ganondorf has to go through fairly significant effort to get out of Mario's juggles, which aside from the near guaranteed ~60% or so keep Ganon in awkward positions where he often reaches danger percents pretty quickly. I cite resetting towards the ledge a lot because it's good against Mario, and you have to understand that this ultimately IS punishable and something Mario can maintain momentum on, and occasionally make some difficult hard reads for KO opportunities. However the overall possibility of ledge resets putting Ganondorf back in neutral where he still outperforms Mario outweighs Mario's close range control game, and Mario's gimp potential, even if a threat, is nowhere near consistent enough to be better than Ganon's multitude of extremely viable KO options.

Recently battling a good Jigglypuff just freaks me out..
I don't really have that much trouble against Ganondorf, excepts that one take he SD koed me with his Side B at air, what a dope.
Still taking time reading your post @ A2ZOMG , so what's the best and worst MU for Mario in your theory? (I have been a Mario fan and main in my entire life, but still can't get good on him, please help!)

 

[A2ZOMG]

Recently battling a good Jigglypuff just freaks me out..
I don't really have that much trouble against Ganondorf, excepts that one take he SD koed me with his Side B at air, what a dope.
Still taking time reading your post @ A2ZOMG , so what's the best and worst MU for Mario in your theory? (I have been a Mario fan and main in my entire life, but still can't get good on him, please help!)

Mario goes about even with Fox, who is considered really good in this game. Most favorable matchup technically is probably against Robin from my experience, given Robin not only gets juggled really easily by Mario, but also has the worst mobility in the game, and Mario is actually able to get around his zoning with fireballs pretty easily.

 

[mario123007]

Mario goes about even with Fox, who is considered really good in this game. Most favorable matchup technically is probably against Robin from my experience, given Robin not only gets juggled really easily by Mario, but also has the worst mobility in the game, and Mario is actually able to get around his zoning with fireballs pretty easily.

WHAT?! Well guess that means I'm not that good with Mario yet. My brother is a Robin main and he often uses a lot of projectiles and side B that made me crazy to use Cap to reflect it. So far I have never met a good Fox online yet. Moreover I still don't have a Wii U and my 3DS circle pad is wearing off. So it's impossible to sharpen my Mario or any other characters' skills for now, one more note about my bad abuses with Mario, I often try abuses Mario's up Smash and Down Smash, side Smash since there's not C stick on 3DS I often naturally holds it unconsciously, so can you give me some combo techniques or tips?
Furthermore of my self confession, I seldom go to see Mario related forum but mostly comment in Rosalina's thread since I really want to make as my second top main, and Mario I used to think that he has nothing to discuss about. Now I realized that my Mario techniques is getting rusty these days so I need help!

 

[X3I]

http://smashboards.com/threads/old-...-match-up-discussion-discussing-mario.390094/
Something to add ?

 

[Mr.Lee]

Does anyone know what I'm suppose to do with yoshi? I can't do almost anything against his nair to jab because of how fast it is. I also have trouble landing. Yoshi has really good aerial mobility and I think that's why I can't get around certain situations. Is it just me or what?

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

I think Yoshi actually has a lot of trouble landing against Mario as well and that overcommitting is what's going to get either Mario or Yoshi in trouble in this matchup.

The frame data is in your favor up close. Your jab is faster and yoshi's tilts are all way slower than Mario's (except un-angled f-tilt)
but Yoshi's Downsmash is problematic from a bit further away. His F-Smash outspeeds Mario's too by 1 frame and Yoshi's do love to throw that out there.

I would just say to be patient (don't let yourself consume too much protein) and then maximize your opportunities. Don't get hit by Ground Pound so Yoshi has to respect you when he's above you and then just apply that nasty pressure that Mario is so good at applying.

 

[Mr.M]

Any mu knowledge on villager,g&w and olimar

 

[A2ZOMG]

Does anyone know what I'm suppose to do with yoshi? I can't do almost anything against his nair to jab because of how fast it is. I also have trouble landing. Yoshi has really good aerial mobility and I think that's why I can't get around certain situations. Is it just me or what?

Yoshi is one of Mario's easier matchups if you want to be really patient and slow about it.

The good news about this matchup is he actually struggles to beat Mario in air exchanges. You can beat basically all of his aerials directly with B-air. Just make sure you're spacing carefully. Fireballs and Cape can also be used to counter his Egg Toss harass.

Do B-reverse Fireballs to land safely as necessary. When you get him offstage try your best to read when he does double jump airdodge to recover and punish this with U-smash if possible. Just in general, try your best to play defensively and react to the things he does, while spacing him out with B-airs. Also Mario has a 2 frame Jab which in close range can be used to either beat him in boxing wars, or after doing aerials on Yoshi's shield to interrupt his OOS options.

He wins this matchup mostly because he does a lot more damage than Mario, but if you play really carefully and don't let him get in on you easily, it's a decent matchup where you actually have a lot of control over what he can do.

 

[meleebrawler]

It's also pretty easy to FLUDD Yoshi if he tries to flutter to the edge and leave him more vulnerable.

 

[Mr.Lee]

So in the yoshi match up, where should I be most of the time? In the air, near the ledge, should I take center stage, or a mix? I'm just not used to the situations were I start to combo and am unable to continue because yoshi and his combo breaker puts me at a bad position. Fireball game does do alot of work and his cape, but I am always struggling to kill. When or what percent does yoshi usually die?

You can tell I have been scarred by many Yoshis

 

[HeroMystic]

You almost always want to control the center stage in any MU because you don't want to be pressured off-stage. Against Yoshi specifically, it limits his use of Egg Toss and makes him rely more on neutrals.

Haven't tested, but Yoshi usually dies around 130% to Up Smash, which is pretty easy to land on him imo. F-Smash kills him at around 100% center stage but can kill even earlier at the edge, but I wouldn't count on landing F-Smash unless Yoshi is being really predictable.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Here's my current Matchup list from Mario:

Note:Not finished. Will commenly be updated:

Mario VS Luigi:6-9

Mario VS Peach:8-4

Mario VS Bowser:0-0

Mario VS Yoshi:0-0

Mario VS Roselina and Luma:0-0

Mario VS Bowser JR:0-0

Mario VS Wario:0-0

Mario VS Donkey Kong:0-0

Mario VS Mr Game & Watch:0-0

Mario VS Little Mac:0-0

Mario VS Link:0-0

Mario VS Zelda:0-0

Mario VS Shiek:0-0

Mario VS Ganondorf:0-0

Mario VS Toon Link:0-0

Mario VS Samus:0-0

Mario VS Zero Suit Samus:0-0

Mario VS Pit:0-0

Mario VS Palutena:0-0

Mario VS Marth:0-0

Mario VS Ike:0-0

Mario VS Robin:0-0

Mario VS Duck Hunt:0-0

Mario VS Kirby:0-0

Mario VS King Dedede:0-0

Mario VS Meta Knight:0-0

Mario VS Fox:0-0

Mario VS Falco:0-0

Mario VS Pikachu:0-0

Mario VS Charizard:0-0

Mario VS Lucario:0-0

Mario VS Jigglypuff:0-0

Mario VS Greninja:0-0

Mario VS Rob:0-0

Mario VS Ness:0-0

Mario VS Captain Falcon:0-0

Mario VS Villager:0-0

Mario VS Olimar:0-0

Mario VS Wii Fit Trainer:0-0

Mario VS Shulk:0-0

Mario VS DR. Mario:0-0

Mario VS Dark Pit:0-0

Mario VS Lucina:0-0

Mario VS Pac-man:0-0

Mario VS Mega Man:0-0

Mario VS Sonic:0-0

Rules were:

Lvl 9 cpu

Final Destination (No omega)

No items

1 Stock

100 smashes to decide

 

[HeroMystic]

Match-ups don't work like that.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Match-ups don't work like that.

Oh lol

 

[meleebrawler]

Match-ups don't work like that.

Especially not against CPUs who can and will do things humans will never do.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Any mu knowledge on villager,g&w and olimar

Villager, respect his disjoints and then find time to rush him down with aerial -> Jab until he dies. You can Cape his Dash Attack, SideB, F-smash, Tree, and F-air/B-air. Just be aware of him pocketing reflected items sometimes.

Vs Olimar is similar to Villager, but he's easier to edgeguard but better at killing you for making spacing mistakes. Just you can reflect Pikmin Toss and F-smash, and usually you want to rush him down with aerial -> Jab.

Vs G&W is really boring. All you can really do in this matchup is wait for him to commit and punish him for making spacing mistakes. There's not a lot really interesting you can do to him, and he has strong disjoints, juggles, and edgeguards against Mario. Save B-throw for killing him around 130% or so.

 

[Mr.M]

Villager, respect his disjoints and then find time to rush him down with aerial -> Jab until he dies. You can Cape his Dash Attack, SideB, F-smash, Tree, and F-air/B-air. Just be aware of him pocketing reflected items sometimes.

Vs Olimar is similar to Villager, but he's easier to edgeguard but better at killing you for making spacing mistakes. Just you can reflect Pikmin Toss and F-smash, and usually you want to rush him down with aerial -> Jab.

Vs G&W is really boring. All you can really do in this matchup is wait for him to commit and punish him for making spacing mistakes. There's not a lot really interesting you can do to him, and he has strong disjoints, juggles, and edgeguards against Mario. Save B-throw for killing him around 130% or so.

Thanks for the post. I didn't know you can cape villagers tree that is amazing only question i have is how can Mario edge guard him effectively?

 

[meleebrawler]

Thanks for the post. I didn't know you can cape villagers tree that is amazing only question i have is how can Mario edge guard him effectively?

You don't, unless you manage a hard read Fair. If the Villager is dumb and likes
riding his rocket just cape him for predictable results. The best thing you can do to Balloon Trip
otherwise is try to make him miss the edge somehow, either with cape or FLUDD, as he is slow
to descend. But because Villager has pretty much all the time in the world to start his trip
and how quick it is when he does it's not easy.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Thanks for the post. I didn't know you can cape villagers tree that is amazing only question i have is how can Mario edge guard him effectively?

Villager can be really difficult to edgeguard unless he makes a mistake. If for whatever reason he chooses to ride his SideB onto the stage, you can Cape that and potentially kill him. If he doesn't cover his low recovery by first doing SideB to disuade you from chasing him, you can usually try to N-air him unless he chooses to do an understage recovery (stages with walls thus are better for you and for playing against him). Usually it will be more important to take advantage of how he gets up from the ledge.

Usually against the tree I usually just simply wait until it dies before approaching.

 

[HeroMystic]

I will say if you position it correctly, you can cape Villager's Up-B and it'll take out all the balloons in one shot, but that should be pretty rare.

 

[Mr.M]

The villager I play against is the best ive seen by far villagers recovery seems impossible to guard because you cant stop him when he recovers low if you do punish you have to hit all the balloons without hitting villager otherwise he can punish and upb again and youre in the worst position and will most likely lose that stock for trying i usually let him just let him back on stage because its easier getting the kill this way which is wrong anyways there has to be a way to stop his upb

On a side note does the cape have any hitboxes above mario

 

[Darrman]

Whenever I'm on FG, the character I dread meeting the most is a Shulk. Those guys are the bane of me, it's maddening! They outrange us like crazy, worse then Marth and company. The smashes are strong, and catch me off-guard a lot. And the Monado Arts can just ruin your day. Buster racks up damage, Smash slays you. One nasty Shulk employed Jump to get up to me, and promptly attacked me sending me to a Star KO. Shield makes them hard to kill, but Speed isn't too bad. The only way I can get a little damage in is punishing Back Slashes, but that was probably FG scrubbiness. Help?

On the other hand, however, my FG experience suggests we have the upper hand on Dedede. He is slow and heavy, making him nice combo bait. His attacks, while strong, are easy to shield and punish. And his down-throw infinite is now a thing of the past, which gave us a major disadvantage in Brawl days. Gordos are slow and can be caped. The Super Dedede Jump is still good, but the heavy landing lag lets us smash him back into the sky. But still respect his attacks, because if we're caught by surprise, it hurts. Second opinions?

 

[Xeze]

You don't even need to cape the gordos. Just fireball to send them back.

On Shulk: his Smashes have quite some ending lag. Dodge and punish back. Also look for oportunities to gimp him with FLUDD. Shulk players need to be careful when using Air Slash because it's not easy to sweetspot the ledge with it, which gives Mario a chance to FLUDD them to their doom.

 

[-Sensei-]

Got rocked by Sheik in tournament. Any tips for this matchup?