Wonderland Mafia GAME OVER: Town/Independent Win!

[Tom]

Junglefever might have had reason to lie (being scum would be the reason) but neither Cacti nor Chaco had reason to lie. If we cannot explain the contradiction between Cacti and Chaco then we cannot hold Junglefever accountable for his unexplained misinformation either.

It may have something to do with being a "Mock" Doctor.

 

[Xiivi]

Night 1 Omis tracked Chaco, you went no where
Night 2 Omis tracked Tom and saw he visted Sir Cacti
NIght 3 I tracked you again, and you went no where

I'm Alice.

Both N1 and N3 have the investigations as incorrect in my eyes.

If we are to assume that Chaco's self-protecting could not be tracked, then only N3 is incorrect.

 

[Xiivi]

If you believe Chaco's "Mock" Doctor role means that the role in fact did not work, then you also believe that the scum did not attempt to make a night kill?

 

[Tom]

He said that literally his shell was his protective means. If he was simply a bulletproof who thought he could protect other people, but in reality just stayed under his shell as a bulletproof, then he would have never ever visited anyone. Also, Night 3, if the mafia shot Chaco in an attempt to kill him while Cacti was watching me, their kill would have failed.

 

[Nicholas1024]

He said that literally his shell was his protective means. If he was simply a bulletproof who thought he could protect other people, but in reality just stayed under his shell as a bulletproof, then he would have never ever visited anyone. Also, Night 3, if the mafia shot Chaco in an attempt to kill him while Cacti was watching me, their kill would have failed.

Yes, my guess is that a bulletproof is involved somewhere, as mafia not making a kill gives town an extra mislynch, and I can't think why they'd do that. Now, since the remaining mafia member must be godfather (or godmother, in this case), here's the info we have:

Jungle: cleared on basis of claiming tracker and the main character of the game.
Tom: cleared on basis of claiming cop and the fact that he's going to send me my evolution role pm soon (hint hint ).
Omni: cleared on not being tracked to the kill tonight (as track immune is significantly less likely then investigation immune)
Me: cleared for being awesome.
Xivii: The only one left. Sorry man, but by process of elimination, you're the play. Vote Xivii

 

[Omni]

The problem is, Jungle claimed the main character of the series, which means he must be town (barring a counterclaim, of course)

dumb. scum could have self claim. hell, queen could have knowledge that Alice isn't even in the game and have the safe claim of Alice.

hey cuties

we've lynched 2 scum meaning we have like two mislynches. so i do not mind testing these claims with lynches.

cacti is completely trustworthy. he claimed backup watcher and he pegged marshy and i trust him thanks to who i am. cacti says that chacobo is lying, so that is enough for me to vote chaco.

junglefever also says that chaco is lying, and though i am not sure if jungle is telling the truth, i do not mind testing. he could easily be telling the truth, or easily be lying, but i dont think he would have any reason to lie because that would mean he is scum and chaco is also scum, and if game doesnt end, he would just have to keep up the tracks. so i believe him.

i find nicholas to be trustworthy in the same way i find xiivi and cacti to be trustworthy. that is what i learned.

if chaco flips town, we still win, because cacti will be watching me to find if they kill me and i will investigate junglefevers or omni and the game will continue with prime information.

so lets go ahead and lynch chaco. i think this will end the game with a town win.

vote: chaco

very scummy of you tom. really really do not like how you were so eager to end the Day despite having a mislynch. why would you mislynch the person who led to Riddle's lynch via attempting to meta the game's win condition and then help lynch Marshy as well?

Vote: Chaco

If it'll help catch scum.

you doofus. this was equally as dumb.

wow u guys are gay

this guy is correct

----------

Really annoyed at town at the moment. Pretty much handed scum Chaco and Cacti on a silver platter. Now we're in a real ****ty position because you guys felt like it was okay to afford a mislynch.

@Scumfever: There are 5 people left alive. Queen of Hearts is still alive and the possibility of an indy existing is still there meaning toDay can very likely be lylo.

@Tom: Something about you that I don't like. Scumfever said he tracked you Cacti when you investigated him so this gives you a lot of credibility. I'll figure it out. I just find you incredibly scummy for being on the quicklynch Chaco wagon. What I find strange is why you aren't dead yet if you are TOWN. Once Chaco the confirmed doc was lynched Mafia would be smart to kill you to keep you out of lylo debate. Of course, one reason why you may be alive is because Godmother is the only one left thus your investigations would give them more "credibility".

Tom, if you are town, the Queen is one of the 4 in your investigations. My only issue still is this **** Independent. If you investigate indies do they come up as scum, town, or do they actually come up as indy?

One of you ****ers are lying through your teeth and HARD. One of you knows about the letter. Right now the only person I trust is Xiivi. Jungle if you are scum I appreciate you clearing me.

I want Nick to claim. Name and role. Tired of his coasting. Tired of hearing all you other guys talk everyday without getting more information out of a coasting player like Nick (which should have been done Yesterday).

If Indy is available they should just claim so they can joint-win with town.

 

[Omni]

NICK ****ING UNVOTE YOUR VOTE IDIOT!

jesus christ dude

 

[Omni]

Let's talk Nick now that you're here.

How are you cleared?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Let's talk Nick now that you're here.

How are you cleared?

That point was written from my own point of view. Obviously I'm cleared in my own eyes. I understand that today the play is between me and Xivii.

 

[Nicholas1024]

At any rate, I'm the Gryphon, and I'm the hider. I fly to someone's house every night and hide there from the queen of hearts.

 

[Omni]

Unvote your vote now. We've already seen what you do when you think someone is the play (hence you jump on the Chaco bandwagon).

Everyone has a good idea who Xiivi is. Nick, please claim. Do it now since I'd rather not give you time to make something up if you weren't given a safe claim.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Unvote your vote now. We've already seen what you do when you think someone is the play (hence you jump on the Chaco bandwagon).

Everyone has a good idea who Xiivi is. Nick, please claim. Do it now since I'd rather not give you time to make something up if you weren't given a safe claim.

Fine, okay. Unvote

 

[Omni]

Where have you been hiding, Nick? Starting from D1.

 

[Omni]

I'd also appreciate if everyone would sit back for a second and shut up while I interrogate Nick.

 

[Tom]

oh cool another claim

 

[Nicholas1024]

Where have you been hiding, Nick? Starting from D1.

Alright. N1 I hid behind Steel because it was incredibly obvious that mafia weren't going to kill him. N2 I decided to hide behind Cacti for the same reason (nobody was going to kill him). N3 I decided to hide behind Omni (as you were an unlikely kill target at that point), and N4 I decided not to hide, as losing 2 townies in one night at this point would be devestating (we'd lose a mis-lynch), and mafia probably wouldn't kill me anyway.

 

[Omni]

Nick. Are you the independent? Do you win if you're alive at the end of the game and scum is gone?

I'm asking you this for a reason despite your answer. Be very careful, Nick.

Do not lie at this point or I promise you that you are dead.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Nick. Are you the independent? Do you win if you're alive at the end of the game and scum is gone?

I'm asking you this for a reason despite your answer. Be very careful, Nick.

Do not lie at this point or I promise you that you are dead.

No, I am not the independent. Why?

 

[Omni]

Last question: Are you lying? Is anything you've said in these past 15 minutes been false?

Answer truthfully. I will know if you are lying.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Last question: Are you lying? Is anything you've said in these past 15 minutes been false?

Answer truthfully. I will know if you are lying.

No, everything has been true. Lynch all liars is a very good idea.

 

[Omni]

Then I think you are the Queen of Hearts.

@Tom (or anyone else): What happens when a Cop investigates an indy role?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Then I think you are the Queen of Hearts.

lolwut? Where did that come from?

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Tom (or anyone else): What happens when a Cop investigates an indy role?

Usually townie, but depends to an extent on the mod.

 

[Omni]

Because you chose the wrong character to claim meaning you weren't given a safeclaim.

Now that I recall Riddle didn't have a safe claim thus he tried to pull out the Cheshire Cat.
Marshy claimed his White Hare character altho' that in itself was a safe claim.

Anyway, I'm the Gryphon. I knew you were lying from the moment you claimed him. The only thing left to do was to see if you were an Indy role or a Mafia role. Considering you were investigated by Tom and received an inno verdict you are the Godmother.

You got caught with your pants down, Nick.

 

[Omni]

The only reason why you're not receiving a vote, btw, is because I need more information on everyone else. Lynching you will end the game if there aren't any indys. If there is an indy then more investigation needs to be done.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Because you chose the wrong character to claim meaning you weren't given a safeclaim.

Now that I recall Riddle didn't have a safe claim thus he tried to pull out the Cheshire Cat.
Marshy claimed his White Hare character altho' that in itself was a safe claim.

Anyway, I'm the Gryphon. I knew you were lying from the moment you claimed him. The only thing left to do was to see if you were an Indy role or a Mafia role. Considering you were investigated by Tom and received an inno verdict you are the Godmother.

You got caught with your pants down, Nick.

This is exactly why us indies should be given safeclaims.

Fine. I'm the ace of hearts, one of the Queen's disgruntled soldiers. What do I care who dies, just so long as I survive to see another day. Yeah, I'm really an indie survivor.

*sighs* Another mafia game lost. I'm 0 for 4 here.

 

[Omni]

So you're claiming Indy now?

What is your win condition? If you answered truthfully then it would have made sense and you could have jointed with Town.

Now you have to die because you're a liar.

I still don't think you're the Indy.

 

[Nicholas1024]

So you're claiming Indy now?

What is your win condition? If you answered truthfully then it would have made sense and you could have jointed with Town.

Now you have to die because you're a liar.

I still don't think you're the Indy.

I just need to be alive at endgame. That's all.

How many indy survivors do you see that claim before mylo/lylo? None. That's because town usually lynches them to prevent them from joining with the mafia. (See Megamafia for a prime example.) However, in my case the lylo situation is slightly different. Assuming a mislynch today and that I make it through the night (not too unlikely of a scenario), lylo will be 1 indy, 1 mafia, and 1 town. Then, I can win with the town without fear of being NK'd, as after the lynch its game over (for town or for mafia). Regardless, I'd still win, and thus I can actually scumhunt rather then joining with the mafia. So, by lynching me, you put yourself in lylo without a chance of finding scum, but by lynching someone else, you have a chance of finding scum right away, and I can join with you in lylo for another chance to win.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

that makes NO SENSE

if its 1v1v1 what stops you from siding with mafia? you'd still win.

 

[Nicholas1024]

that makes NO SENSE

if its 1v1v1 what stops you from siding with mafia? you'd still win.

If it's 1v1v1, it doesn't matter who I side with, I still win. So, I might as well scumhunt, as town definitely deserves to win this game.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

What...why would you scumhunt if you can just vote either of the two and win?

 

[Omni]

Agreed, let's see a riddle claim.

This came before you saying, "Agreed. Riddle has made a scumslip." Marshy in the previous post wanted to see Riddle claim and you parroted this idea. Both of you were trying to drive out the Cheshire Cat it seems.

Here's my scumlist, if anyone cares:


Willing to lynch:

Cacti: My preferred lynch of today. Posts absolutely no new content, was against a riddle wagon, and "I agree, vote"d me for an "I agree, vote". Also, I disapprove of him hammering this early into D2.

Steel: He was my secondary lynch candidate for today. Although against a riddle wagon, he at least makes his own opinions.

Undetermined as of yet

Tom:
Not enough content yet to decide. Since he was inactive across the boards, I won't hold his lack of D1 activity against him. However, he's higher up

Omni:
Although his post against Omis was good, I don't know where he was coming from with Tom being the mad hatter. The thing about Tom sending him a note is also interesting. There are 3 possibilities,

1)Omni is telling the truth, and Tom is lying
2)Omni is lying whilst Tom is telling the truth
3)Both are telling the truth and some anti-town scumbag manipulated Omni.

However, I have no idea which of these might be true. So, it moves both of them up my personal scumlist somewhat.

Omis:
Hasn't posted too terribly much of content, and his most recent post was terrible. However, he was on the riddle wagon, so he takes a backseat for the moment.


Townie:

Chaco, Marshy, Gheb, Xivii:
Were all solidly on the Riddle wagon, and haven't done anything to raise suspicion just yet.

This is you getting putting your partner Marshy in the clear.

First off, the Cacti v.s. Marshy debate:

Points for Cacti:
1) Tom is claiming cop (more or less) and backs him. Yeah, that's more or less it.

Points for Marshy:
1)Marshy was on the riddle lynch.
2)Cacti was against the riddle lynch.
3)Cacti quick-hammered steel ridiculously early into D2.
4)Cacti hasn't been contributing in his own right.
5)A backup is a easy claim for mafia to make. Little worries of counter-claims, and it's someone town wants to keep around.
6)A Godfather is extremely common in 3 mafia games.
7)Until Cacti shifted some of the focus to him, Cacti's neck was at the chopping block (although, it's still pretty close.)

This is you further defending Marshy while he was still alive.

--------------

If your win condition was to be alive end game, you should have gladly claimed since your claim would have made sense. Regardless, you're going to be lynched today and I think you are the Queen of Hearts. Another problem with you is that Indy would most likely have a believable enough claim that they are who they say they are, but you resorted to choosing a whole new role all together. If you are the QoH stop wasting our time and just confess; you're not going to live regardless.

-------------

From here on out, we just need to move forward under the assumption that Nick is a survivor and find who our last candidate for the Queen could be. I asked this before: Do Indies ever show up as scum? What is it for the most part in most games?

 

[Nicholas1024]

What...why would you scumhunt if you can just vote either of the two and win?

Well, you'll just have to trust me, I suppose. Certain town members (Chaco especially) have been brilliant this game, and besides, I find it quite annoying when indies side with mafia, as it makes mylo/lylo situations instant lose. (Anyone remember spidey-mafia? Oy.)

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Nick, I'm really not okay with "just trusting you" when you can win by basically flipping a coin and then voting.

 

[Omni]

btw, if u ****ers would have been patient, i would have been able to figure this out Yesterday without losing Chaco or Cacti. i hate you all for that still.

Something still isn't right. Him not being a Cheshire Cat lyncher bothers me. Someone in the game is DEFINITELY looking for him. It has to be Mafia since Riddle and Marshy were both trying to out him by having Riddle claim Cheshire Cat.

Hm.

Scum at this point in the game should have known who Cheshire Cat was. However, the person who is obviously the Cheshire Cat has not been attacked. Instead they went after Cacti. Either scum hasn't picked up on the trail or they really wanted to get rid of Cacti's watching ability.

Hm...

 

[Nicholas1024]

This came before you saying, "Agreed. Riddle has made a scumslip." Marshy in the previous post wanted to see Riddle claim and you parroted this idea. Both of you were trying to drive out the Cheshire Cat it seems.



This is you getting putting your partner Marshy in the clear.



This is you further defending Marshy while he was still alive.

--------------

If your win condition was to be alive end game, you should have gladly claimed since your claim would have made sense. Regardless, you're going to be lynched today and I think you are the Queen of Hearts. Another problem with you is that Indy would most likely have a believable enough claim that they are who they say they are, but you resorted to choosing a whole new role all together. If you are the QoH stop wasting our time and just confess; you're not going to live regardless.

-------------

From here on out, we just need to move forward under the assumption that Nick is a survivor and find who our last candidate for the Queen could be. I asked this before: Do Indies ever show up as scum? What is it for the most part in most games?

So let's see... I'm scummy for pushing a scumbag to make a claim? At any rate, the Cheshire cat is definitely still hidden (if he's in this game. I think the only person that hasn't claimed is Xivii, and the QoH has to be hidden somewhere.)

I'll admit it. I was wrong about Marshy, and I understand how that implicates me somewhat.

Might I remind you that indie roles are usually lynched? I didn't want to take that chance. Of course, it ended up backfiring in a major way.

 

[Nicholas1024]

nick, I'm Really Not Okay With "just Trusting You" When You Can Win By Basically Flipping A Coin And Then Voting.

 

[Omni]

@Jungle: It's pretty clear that Nick is going to die today so trying to figure out his motives is a moot point.

Let's just assume he is who he says he is since that works in our favor the most.

I'm afraid that if everyone gives their "viewpoint" on the situation that Mafia will use those viewpoints to choose their lynch for tonight. Regardless, we still have a few ways to prove some theories. Mainly Jungle and Tom. Both of them can provide information that we may need for tomorrow.

I really need to think the rest of this through. We're basically at the end of the game but we can't afford to leave any loose ends.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Jungle: It's pretty clear that Nick is going to die today so trying to figure out his motives is a moot point.

Let's just assume he is who he says he is since that works in our favor the most.

I'm afraid that if everyone gives their "viewpoint" on the situation that Mafia will use those viewpoints to choose their lynch for tonight. Regardless, we still have a few ways to prove some theories. Mainly Jungle and Tom. Both of them can provide information that we may need for tomorrow.

I really need to think the rest of this through. We're basically at the end of the game but we can't afford to leave any loose ends.

What are the odds of them shooting anyone besides Jungle? If they get tracked, it's game over for them.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Well... Vote Xivii

as he's still my lynch choice for today. The analysis I did a couple pages ago still stands.