Social Wolf Social Discussion

[MERPIS]

Yo does anyone have footage of back throw? It apparently kills according to some one on the competitive discussion

 

[Chiroz]

Yo does anyone have footage of back throw? It apparently kills according to some one on the competitive discussion

I think that’s based on what I’ve written here. I’ve personally seen it kill Pichu (now confirmed lightest char in the game) at 80% on the edge of the stage, but the Pichu was 100% DIng outwards. That said, I don’t know just how much DI can hinder the throw but if it’s killing at 80%, I would assume with correct DI it still kills Pichu sub 100% (this is an assumption) which would mean that maybe it can kill midweight charactera around 120% with correct DI (at the corner), so sort of a Mario B-Throw kind of thing. We will have to see whether I am right or wrong.



So a tip in the loading screen (obtained from data mining) states that Wolf can angle Side-B up and down. This might actually fix Wolf’s current recovery problems, lol.

 

[MERPIS]

Wolf can angle Side-B up and down

Oh please let it be true
Also, if Wolf's bthrow does kill that early (that's not a mario that's more toon link and villager tier) then he'll be the only starfox character with an actually viable kill throw (Looking at you, Falco's bthrow laser)
It's animation and damage count definitely make it seem like a stronger throw. Kinda how you can tell with Mewtwo's uthrow, they both just look strong...

 

[Chiroz]

Oh please let it be true
Also, if Wolf's bthrow does kill that early then he'll be the only starfox character with an actually viable kill throw (Looking at you, Falco's bthrow laser)
It's animation and damage count definitely make it seem like a stronger throw. Kinda how you can tell with Mewtwo's uthrow, they both just look strong...

It all depends on how much DI actually affects the attack.

And the angle thing is 100% true since it’s a tip on the game’s loading screen. The question now is more: how much can he angle it?

If the angle is substantial then it could make his recovery go from horrible to amazing since he will lose the one thing making his recovery extremely bad - the fact that it’s extremely linear/predictable.

 

[MERPIS]

It all depends on how much DI actually affects the attack.

And the angle thing is 100% true since it’s a tip on the game’s loading screen. The question now is more: how much can he angle it?

If the angle is substantial then it could make his recovery go from horrible to amazing since he will lose the one thing making his recovery extremely bad - the fact that it’s extremely linear/predictable.

That bthrow is lucas or toon link tier, it even got a damage buff from 7 to 11.5
Also I doubt that his recovery is gonna be that booty buttcheeks with that good air speed and up b still having directions despite the mediocre distance.

But on the topic of kill moves, is it possible that uair might kill now? Apparently its much stronger according to smashwiki..

 

[Chiroz]

That bthrow is lucas or toon link tier, it even got a damage buff from 7 to 11.5
Also I doubt that his recovery is gonna be that booty buttcheeks with that good air speed and up b still having directions despite the mediocre distance.

But on the topic of kill moves, is it possible that uair might kill now? Apparently its much stronger according to smashwiki..

I’ve seen Wolf land U-Air on Snake at 130% and not kill (granted Snake is probably top 10 heavyweight), so I wouldn’t call it a kill move. I think it can kill if you use platforms and such to gain more height, but you won’t be netting many kills with it in general. Just like F-Air, it seems to be more of a juggle tool.

 

[valkiriforce]

12 days until release:

 

[Chiroz]

Just tested the angling, it’s actually very minimal, if I were to guess it’s something like 45 / 35 / 25 where 35 is the default angle.

The angles are ****ing perfect though for on-stage fighting. Angled Up auto lands on platforms sort of like scarring. Angled down can hit opponents on the ground. It’s amazing. Idk just how much it will affect recovery though since the angles aren’t that much different.

 

[MERPIS]

Just tested the angling, it’s actually very minimal, if I were to guess it’s something like 45 / 35 / 25 where 35 is the default angle.

The angles are ****ing perfect though for on-stage fighting. Angled Up auto lands on platforms sort of like scarring. Angled down can hit opponents on the ground. It’s amazing. Idk just how much it will affect recovery though since the angles aren’t that much different.

It'll probably still be good, Wolf's recovery reminds me a lot of mii brawler's recovery, just toned down a bit, with side b and his air speed returning to the stage shouldn't be too difficult but you're gonna need to conserve that double jump.

 

[Ishiey]

KuroganeHammer left us a message on his site lol. Thanks for doing all the data mining homie, love ya <3

We're so close, only 8 days left! What's everyone up to on launch day, got any Smashfests planned? Most people I know are trying to take Friday off, it's almost like it's a minor religious holiday or something

 

[valkiriforce]

Unfortunately I don't even have a Switch yet - I hope to get one maybe over the coming holidays along with Smash. At least I can get a hold of the Wolf amiibo when that comes around; I'm very much looking forward to getting a hold of the first available Star Wolf-related merchandise that I know of. In the meantime I'll just enjoy looking over these boards and discussing the game here and elsewhere.

 

[rsr2]

I'm going to a fest at a friends place then I might play at an event the next day.

Sadly I do not have a switch so this is all I can do for a bit ; _ ;

 

[WolfCypher]

I requested the 7th through the 13th off back in July. I'll be training by myself with Pit, Wolf, Lucario, Fox, and Greninja (I'm not going to overdo it on the first week so my other characters will be later) and by January all of my friends will get together and play against each other in a half-day's worth of no items, non-casual cutthroat matches.

Its like training for the Cell Games.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

I forgot to mention's Wolf's Greatest improvement in the other thread, but this one is more appropriate to share it in:

When the crowd starts chanting for Wolf, they go "Awooooo, Awooooo!"

BAM AWESOME!

 

[WolfCypher]

Correct me if I;m wrong but wasn't that what happened in Brawl?

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Correct me if I;m wrong but wasn't that what happened in Brawl?

Correct.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Correct.

News to me and I played a lot of brawl and PM! Still awesome!

Why is it so rare to get crowd to chant? What are the conditions for it to happen?

 

[Krysco]

Pretty sure one of the conditions is to be at a high %. Likely 100+%. I imagine you also have to be playing 'well' however the game determines that. Likely a case of landing a bunch of hits without getting hit yourself. Could also be related to KOs as I find crowd cheers to be more common in FFAs compared to 1v1s or dubs.

 

[godogod]

Correct.

omg.. his up really is disgusting now. He didn't need that range nerf at all. wtf

 

[Goldenadept]

KuroganeHammer left us a message on his site lol. Thanks for doing all the data mining homie, love ya <3

We're so close, only 8 days left! What's everyone up to on launch day, got any Smashfests planned? Most people I know are trying to take Friday off, it's almost like it's a minor religious holiday or something

Took Thursday off with PTO, I work 4 10's so i already had fri/sat/sun off so its gonna be a good 4 days beating my casual friends with Wolf like its 2008 again

 

[Ffamran]

Chibi-Chan and Chiroz , does training mode in Ultimate have a record function? One thing that the training modes of Smash lacked that other fighting games have had for a while was the ability to record a set of actions for the CPU to do. Without that, it makes it harder if not maybe impossible without a friend to check for DI or how to deal with certain situations, moves, and so on.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Chibi-Chan and Chiroz , does training mode in Ultimate have a record function? One thing that the training modes of Smash lacked that other fighting games have had for a while was the ability to record a set of actions for the CPU to do. Without that, it makes it harder if not maybe impossible without a friend to check for DI or how to deal with certain situations, moves, and so on.

Nop. It has new functions such as invul glowing, staling, enemy DI (random), fixed %s, making enemy do f-smash, showing launch trajectory predictions, but no record... Still a few years behind.

 

[valkiriforce]

Finally know what the three victory screens look like for Wolf:

 

[Foxy Alopex]

Finally I get to see gameplay of my two mains against each other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5ACw57w_H8

 

[Rizen]

Finally I get to see gameplay of my two mains against each other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5ACw57w_H8

That Wolf needs to learn how to grab. Peach was shield happy and he kept using aerials then getting punished or backing off.

 

[Foxy Alopex]

That Wolf needs to learn how to grab. Peach was shield happy and he kept using aerials then getting punished or backing off.

Indeed that Wolf player was terrible but I think I found my new colour for Wolf that black and red is hot on him.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Indeed that Wolf player was terrible but I think I found my new colour for Wolf that black and red is hot on him.

Called it!

 

[Chiroz]

I am actually going to be using the orange one. I don’t like the black/red when it’s moving. They made the undershirt and pants the same shade of black as the jacket so when Wolf is moving around it blends in and loses most of it’s detail, makes it look like Wolf is using a spandex suit like ZSS as opposed to a jacket.

 

[DE235]

20 min of Wolf here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxDnl0DLXg8

 

[Foxy Alopex]

I am actually going to be using the orange one. I don’t like the black/red when it’s moving. They made the undershirt and pants the same shade of black as the jacket so when Wolf is moving around it blends in and loses most of it’s detail, makes it look like Wolf is using a spandex suit like ZSS as opposed to a jacket.

I noticed that too when I looked back at the video and its even better I love me some Zero Suit Wolf

 

[Rizen]

20 min of Wolf here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxDnl0DLXg8

Thanks. This pokemon stall match with Celestella and Venussaur was getting boring.

 

[Ffamran]

Nop. It has new functions such as invul glowing, staling, enemy DI (random), fixed %s, making enemy do f-smash, showing launch trajectory predictions, but no record... Still a few years behind.

I kind of expected that was the case and it's a shame. I get that Smash isn't supposed to be geared towards pure competition or having all these technical things, but practice, regardless of whatever game it is, is still useful and having extensive training modes helps everyone. For example, one of the issues hack 'n' slash games like Devil May Cry, God of War, and Ninja Gaiden had back then was that you couldn't really practice beyond learning moves. If you wanted to train against specific enemies, specific situations, and so on, you had to go to the level or area that had those enemies, situations, or whatever and in most cases, getting there is also a pain when there might not be a checkpoint or there might not even be a level select. I don't remember if the God of War games had level selects or if they were completely linear. Bayonetta is the first hack 'n' slash game that I know of that had a training room where even though it wasn't much, having one enemy to practice combos on or the ability to practice or try out moves and gear before you buy them and I think even after buying them is still really useful. DmC: Devil May Cry had that as well and DMCV is going beyond that by letting you choose enemies that you've fought before.

Anyway, the point is that it would have been nice for Ultimate's training room to have had a record function. With regards to Wolf, one thing I was thinking of was seeing what you could anti-air with Wolf's angled up Ftilt, Utilt, Up Smash, and possibly jab if it hits high enough which I don't know if it does. Utilt is the fastest at frame 7, but Ftilt and Up Smash have more horizontal range than Utilt and Ftilt is only 1 frame slower on startup. By extension, this could also lead to seeing his whiff punish options and if he can do them reliably out of a dash or walk back to avoid attacks.

 

[Rizen]

For example, one of the issues hack 'n' slash games like Devil May Cry, God of War, and Ninja Gaiden had back then was that you couldn't really practice beyond learning moves. If you wanted to train against specific enemies, specific situations, and so on, you had to go to the level or area that had those enemies, situations, or whatever and in most cases, getting there is also a pain when there might not be a checkpoint or there might not even be a level select.

If you think that's bad wait until you play Dark Souls.

 

[Ffamran]

If you think that's bad wait until you play Dark Souls.

I've played Demon's Souls and Bloodborne before and they're not as bad as Bayonetta, Castlevania: Lord of Shadows, DMC, God of War, or Ninja Gaiden. For one, they have different paces where Demon's/Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Nioh, and similar games are slower and their combat is more methodical in a sense you have to learn when to strike and when not to. You also have more time to think because of that. Hack 'n' slash games are faster, some of them throw mobs of enemies at you, some of them have the sin known as quick time events, and they have more extensive move lists where some combos are really useful like the Izuna Drop is the bread and butter combo when it grants you invincibility during the drop. And on the harder difficulties, you can take similar if not more damage than in Demon's/Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Nioh, whatever. DMC4 and DmC have the Hell or Hell mode where you will die in one hit, but the enemies will behave like they are on hard difficulty. There's also the Heaven or Hell mode in some of the DMC games where everything dies in one hit which can make things really easy or really hard.

The checkpoint systems are different depending on the game. Demon's/Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Nioh, and so on have the same checkpoint systems where you respawn at the game's respective bonfire, so you can quickly get back into the fight and some of them are right next to a boss room or an area with certain enemies. You also usually respawn with full health and all your game's respective Estus Flasks. Demon's Souls didn't have Estus Flasks. In DMC, you needed to use yellow orbs to go back to revive at a checkpoint or golden orbs to revive wherever you died. If you didn't have either or it felt pointless to use it like you just died in the first area of the level, then back to the beginning of level you go. In Ninja Gaiden, you save at dragon statues where on the first time you do so, it restores your health, but on your next saves, it doesn't meaning you could screw yourself over by saving again after a fight where you lost too much health. Sometimes, especially if you know what's going to happen in the next areas, you might have to choose between skipping your first save and dealing with those rooms, or saving, having your health restored, and seeing if you can deal with the rest of the areas before another statue. On the lower difficulties where Ninja Gaiden is still pretty hard, it's not that big of a deal, but on harder difficulties, it can matter when enemies do more damage and take more damage.

Anyway, the dash speeds which is not to be confused with run speeds of the characters in Ultimate were found and Wolf's 2.09 dash speed is listed on the frame data thread: http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/DashSpeed. Not sure if it was mentioned already, but he ties with Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Fox, and young Link where Fox is the only character to have had his dash speed reduced. Fox used to have a 2.4 dash speed, the fastest dash in Smash 4, but that now belongs to ZSS with a 2.42 dash speed. In general, dashes are much faster in Ultimate than in the previous games and for Wolf, he has a fast burst of movement. Dashes are not sustained like running, but he can quickly close a set distance to get in or out by dashing which was pretty useful for Fox, Little Mac, Falco, and Samus who had the fastest dashes in Smash 4.

This thread says that all dashes are 19 frames long, but you cancel it into an attack at frame 14: https://smashboards.com/threads/lan...ead-training-mode-tested-all-76-chars.464174/. Not sure if dash lengths are the same which they probably aren't since Captain Falcon's looked like it traveled pretty far.

 

[Rizen]

I've played Demon's Souls and Bloodborne before and they're not as bad as Bayonetta, Castlevania: Lord of Shadows, DMC, God of War, or Ninja Gaiden. For one, they have different paces where Demon's/Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Nioh, and similar games are slower and their combat is more methodical in a sense you have to learn when to strike and when not to. You also have more time to think because of that. Hack 'n' slash games are faster, some of them throw mobs of enemies at you, some of them have the sin known as quick time events, and they have more extensive move lists where some combos are really useful like the Izuna Drop is the bread and butter combo when it grants you invincibility during the drop. And on the harder difficulties, you can take similar if not more damage than in Demon's/Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Nioh, whatever. DMC4 and DmC have the Hell or Hell mode where you will die in one hit, but the enemies will behave like they are on hard difficulty. There's also the Heaven or Hell mode in some of the DMC games where everything dies in one hit which can make things really easy or really hard.

The checkpoint systems are different depending on the game. Demon's/Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Nioh, and so on have the same checkpoint systems where you respawn at the game's respective bonfire, so you can quickly get back into the fight and some of them are right next to a boss room or an area with certain enemies. You also usually respawn with full health and all your game's respective Estus Flasks. Demon's Souls didn't have Estus Flasks. In DMC, you needed to use yellow orbs to go back to revive at a checkpoint or golden orbs to revive wherever you died. If you didn't have either or it felt pointless to use it like you just died in the first area of the level, then back to the beginning of level you go. In Ninja Gaiden, you save at dragon statues where on the first time you do so, it restores your health, but on your next saves, it doesn't meaning you could screw yourself over by saving again after a fight where you lost too much health. Sometimes, especially if you know what's going to happen in the next areas, you might have to choose between skipping your first save and dealing with those rooms, or saving, having your health restored, and seeing if you can deal with the rest of the areas before another statue. On the lower difficulties where Ninja Gaiden is still pretty hard, it's not that big of a deal, but on harder difficulties, it can matter when enemies do more damage and take more damage.

That sucks. I'm not into hack and slash games so idk most of them. DS1 in particular was really bad with checkpoints. Especially my first time through when I played blind and missed several hidden bonfires. I had to run all the way through the catacombs because I didn't know you can survive the drop into the area with the blacksmith guy. But even knowing all the check points it's still a pain to speedrun past all the enemies that respawn in several places to get to bosses like Seath or Nito. DS3 had some unnecessary bonfires (so did DS1 to be fair) but at least it had enough.

 

[valkiriforce]

Just a random throwing-it-out-there question: at what point did any of you decide that Wolf was your main or secondary in Smash? For myself, I was always playing as either Luigi, Fox, Captain Falcon or Snake in SSBB, however I would once in a while switch it up with a few other characters here and there. At some point I think in 2014 when I came back to Brawl after so long I was playing the same characters and at some point I tried out Wolf again and forgot how much fun he could be. His forward jab is really satisfying and I like his Up Smash more than Fox and Falco's fire attack being a charged kick attack. It's a lot of fun using that against a crowd of fighters in a line. I just seemed to have more fun playing as him when I returned to Brawl that he pretty much became my new main sort of alongside Luigi. I didn't get Smash 3DS until May of 2015 and it was then that I started paying any attention to Smash 4 (I don't have a Wii U so I was mostly out of the loop of Smash content). It was then that I was really hoping he might make this last stretch of DLC characters but you all know how that ended up.

Fast-forward to Smash Ultimate's announcement in the March Direct - I was thinking if at least Wolf makes it back I'll probably make it a point to track down a Nintendo Switch and look forward to the coming release of the game. Sure enough there was a huge character dump at E3 with everyone coming back including Wolf, and add to that the announcement of the new Amiibo coming out with the release including Wolf as one of the first shown. As a bonus it was also nice to get that little announcement of Star Fox being featured in Starlink along with Wolf making yet another appearance in another game, so you could say it's been a good year for us Wolf fans. I'm very much excited to play Smash Ultimate with Wolf (and likely other characters) this time around, although I still have some waiting to do before the possibility of getting a Switch.

 

[WolfCypher]

Just a random throwing-it-out-there question: at what point did any of you decide that Wolf was your main or secondary in Smash?

Wolves are my favorite animal, and Wolf is my 2nd favorite Star Fox character. He was a main in Brawl.

 

[valkiriforce]

Yeah that's actually another reason I like Wolf; plus his taunts are some of the best in Brawl for me (his wolf howl/"What's the matter scared?"). I also have a friend who is pretty crazy about wolves, lol. Both of us are looking forward to getting that Wolf Amiibo when it comes out.

 

[T!t!]

In Brawl I first played DK until I unlocked Wolf. Then I was super hyped since I really love his personality and his quotes from Lylatwars/Starfox64 and I was really excited to be able to play as him. Unlucky during that time, I didn't attend any local tournaments yet and shortly after I started playing Wolf, Sm4sh was announced and as we all know, Wolf didn't make it into Sm4sh. So him being announced at E3 for me meant legit everything. I watched the trailer and even after the "everyone is here", i couldn't believe it until I saw Wolf with my own eyes. From that moment on I already knew who I wanted to main. Also the two moves that to me felt the most awkward in Brawl out of Wolf's moveset got changed to something I was familiar with playing as Fox in the early Sm4sh days. Therefore I really liked that he got the sexkick nair and the hardhitter-Fox dashattack.

After seeing all his moves, I was kinda sad he doesn't have his Brawl F-Smash but I still do like the rest of his kit, so it won't bother me too much on a gameplay-perspective. I also do think that I would have played Wolf no matter what they would change since I just like his characterdesign a lot.

Another small thing that did actually matter to me was that Wolf finally had his eyepatch just like in Starfox 64. (also in general there is a huge story behind why Starfox 64 is the Starfox game I love the most; childhood stuff and so on)

I still can't believe I'll finally be able to play as Wolf in Ultimate in a few days. My personal excitement is hitting its peak.

 

[Ishiey]

I'm pretty sad about the "What's the matter, scared?" taunt not coming back tbh, it was so good :< As for me, when I started playing Brawl as a casual I sideB'd in a 4-player FFA and hit all three of the other players. That's when I knew this was it. Can't wait to disrespectfully sideB people in a new game.