Wolf O'Donnell for Brawl: The only good choice for a starfox villain

[Limit]

"it isn’t possible to create a moveset for Falco that would separate him from Fox"

This sentence makes the entire post an epic fail. Look at what he's already done. Fox, Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers, Game and Watch, and Brawl even has a moveset composed of farts. Face it, Sakurai could create a moveset for a stick. And then there's the Assault weapons. Off the top of my head I can already give him the bazooka for a Neutral B.

Right, so because you failed to comprehend the surrounding context, you pull a solitary sentence out and slap it here, claiming the rest of my argument falls flat. Of course it looks undeniably opinionated and baseless when you completely ignore the logic embedded within my post.

I'm guessing you entirely overlooked my "Not one moveset but THREE" argument. Yeah, sure, Sakurai can create a moveset for stick. Now can he create 3? Unlikely.

But worse yet, you seem to have forgotten already that FALCO IS AN INTENTIONAL CLONE, and Fox has already claimed his existing moveset. It would be like making an entirely new moveset for Pichu, an entirely new moveset for Dr. Mario, an entirely new moveset for Young Link, etc. In the end, it's not worth it when you have two other characters sitting right next to him with untouched potential.

And who's to say that Starfox can't have four reps.

Hmm, how about the game's developer, Sakurai? With the unbearably slow pace at which he has been revealing new characters anyways, I wouldn't even expect more than two Starfox characters this time around, let alone three. Four is completely improbable.

Sorry about the double post. Edit isn't working.
And you say that they don't use their animalistic traits? In Assault Peppy jumps way higher than anyone else, because he's a hare. It's unlikely that he will use his wings, but who are you to tell me that he can't?

I never told you he can't. In fact, I distinctly remember writing the exact opposite:

If you want to go ahead and give him flying abilities and think such a technologically sophisticated character should be flapping his wings around the stage, be my guest.

Drawing upon Falco's animalistic traits for moveset potential is just a pathetic excuse to find ways to separate him from Fox. The problem is, they are full-out CLONES of eachother. Essentially, if you truly wish to de-clone him, you are going to have to do more than just throw out a possible B special move...a task which would require Brawl's development team much more work and effort than it would to create a moveset for Krystal or Wolf.

Falco is dead last when it comes to moveset potential, and that was my entire point.

 

[flyinfilipino]

If they could come up with a moveset for Wolf, why not Falco too?

By the way, I looked at your moveset Limit, annd I think you could easily put any of that on Falco. I'm not anti-Wolf or anything (I would like Wolf in the game), but I think real fight is between Wolf and Falco.

 

[Limit]

If they could come up with a moveset for Wolf, why not Falco too?

By the way, I looked at your moveset Limit, annd I think you could easily put any of that on Falco. I'm not anti-Wolf or anything (I would like Wolf in the game), but I think real fight is between Wolf and Falco.

Point 1:

Alright, so you might say, if Falco doesn’t have a chance, what’s so special about Wolf? Falco and Wolf both have a distinguished personality as well as a massive coolness factor, but what makes Wolf stand so far ahead? It’s all due to the fact that Wolf is a villain character – his background gives him moveset potential that has still been untouched thus far in the Star Fox franchise. Being a member of his own distinctive squadron, Star Wolf, he has access to a much darker side of weaponry and technology, which fits the style of his character even more than they would in the hands of any other character in the Star Fox franchise.

Point 2:

While in actuality, the fight for the remaining spot appears to be between Falco and Wolf, theoretically, the fight should truly between Falco and Krystal. This is not a baseless claim either, because I’ve come up with a sequence of importance which categorizes certain characters across multiple Brawl franchises.

1) Main character
2) Supporting character
3) Villain
4) Extra character
5) Extra character
6) Extra character
7) …

As you can see, it depends on the size of the character’s franchise, because as it grows larger, there allows more characters, but it still goes in this order. Ignoring the extra characters though, we notice the first three characters, labelled the “Rule of 3”. This is a theoretical “order of importance” for a character franchise.

This is what the Star Fox franchise would look like for Brawl:

Star Fox Franchise
1) Fox
2) Krystal OR Falco
3) Wolf

Whether it’s Krystal who makes it or Falco, this theory guarantee’s a spot for Wolf either way. He is the only viable character who could fill the villain spot for the Star Fox franchise, and rightly so.

 

[Metalknux]

Right, so because you failed to comprehend the surrounding context, you pull a solitary sentence out and slap it here, claiming the rest of my argument falls flat. Of course it looks undeniably opinionated and baseless when you completely ignore the logic embedded within my post.

I'm guessing you entirely overlooked my "Not one moveset but THREE" argument. Yeah, sure, Sakurai can create a moveset for stick. Now can he create 3? Unlikely.

But worse yet, you seem to have forgotten already that FALCO IS AN INTENTIONAL CLONE, and Fox has already claimed his existing moveset. It would be like making an entirely new moveset for Pichu, an entirely new moveset for Dr. Mario, an entirely new moveset for Young Link, etc. In the end, it's not worth it when you have two other characters sitting right next to him with untouched potential.



Hmm, how about the game's developer, Sakurai? With the unbearably slow pace at which he has been revealing new characters anyways, I wouldn't even expect more than two Starfox characters this time around, let alone three. Four is completely improbable.



I never told you he can't. In fact, I distinctly remember writing the exact opposite:



Drawing upon Falco's animalistic traits for moveset potential is just a pathetic excuse to find ways to separate him from Fox. The problem is, they are full-out CLONES of eachother. Essentially, if you truly wish to de-clone him, you are going to have to do more than just throw out a possible B special move...a task which would require Brawl's development team much more work and effort than it would to create a moveset for Krystal or Wolf.

Falco is dead last when it comes to moveset potential, and that was my entire point.

He really doesn't even have to create a moveset for Krystal. With the staff and all the moves in Adventures, the moveset practically jumps at him. Then Wolf and Falco remain.

And no character in a month =/= less characters.

And I don't see how being a villain gives you more moveset options. What, Villain punch? Villian kick? They come from the same universe with the same weapons.

 

[bored]

I'm still waiting for anti-Wolfs to shred up my arguement, or at least try...

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3397526&postcount=2817

But for anyone else, what do you think of my moveset for Wolf?

This moveset is perfect. Good job!


Oh yeah, Wolf 4 Brawl!

 

[Limit]

He really doesn't even have to create a moveset for Krystal. With the staff and all the moves in Adventures, the moveset practically jumps at him. Then Wolf and Falco remain.

And no character in a month =/= less characters.

And I don't see how being a villain gives you more moveset options.

I've already addressed Krystal's moveset potential, so yes that could possibly eliminate her from that predicament. However, don't be so quick to assume that Sakurai will choose a staff based moveset for her. Afterall, she has been in space animal gear ever since Adventures, so who really knows? She could be forced to have a made up moveset like Fox if Nintendo keeps ignoring her character background.

And on your second point, maybe being a villain doesn't give more moveset options (even though I have already proved it does). They may come from the same universe with the same weapons, but that doesn't mean they all have access to that technology. Wolf is known to use technology and spacecraft that rival the Star Fox Team's. What does Falco have access to? That's right, everything Fox is already using.

However, there is no arguing that being a villain, Wolf brings more VARIETY to Brawl than Falco would.

 

[flyinfilipino]

@Limit: Nah...those are still just theories. As for the thing about there only 3 Starfox characters, that might not necessarily be true in Brawl. I also don't think weapons have a "dark side" to them. If I recall, Starfox Assault was the first Starfox game to have all those nice guns and stuff, and both Falco and Wolf had equal access to all of them. And who knows, we might even see both of them make it into Brawl. And if anyone has the creativity to make that happen with regards to movesets, I think Sakurai can do it.

 

[Limit]

@Limit: Nah...those are still just theories. As for the thing about there only 3 Starfox characters, that might not necessarily be true in Brawl. I also don't think weapons have a "dark side" to them. If I recall, Starfox Assault was the first Starfox game to have all those nice guns and stuff, and both Falco and Wolf had equal access to all of them. And who knows, we might even see both of them make it into Brawl. And if anyone has the creativity to make that happen with regards to movesets, I think Sakurai can do it.

Just theories? Yeah right, it's not like the developers just make a game without any pre-determined planning or anything. I'm trying to use logic to show that including a character ISN'T just a coincidence. This game has to appeal to all types of players you know. This is why it's beneficial to include a mix of heroes, villains, etc to add variety to the game -- any player can find a character who meets their preferences.

Why do you think Sakurai wants to add more female characters to Brawl? To attract more female players -- and create more satisfied consumers overall.

Why do you think Sakurai should add more villain characters to Brawl? To attract more players such as myself -- and create more satisfied consumers overall.

 

[Rubydragon]

Limit, I have a comment about your moveset, if I may...

The cloaking device is quite problematic, in my opinion. It isn't the fact that it's over powered, it's just the fact that it is near useless when fighting a CPU. Unless the Brawl team makes the computer a little less aggressive when Wolf is cloaked.

I'd like Fox, Wolf, and Krystal to be the Star Fox trio in this game.

Has his icon already been discussed? Should Wolf have a different icon? Or keep the same one as Fox?

 

[Limit]

Limit, I have a comment about your moveset, if I may...

The cloaking device is quite problematic, in my opinion. It isn't the fact that it's over powered, it's just the fact that it is near useless when fighting a CPU. Unless the Brawl team makes the computer a little less aggressive when Wolf is cloaked.

I'd like Fox, Wolf, and Krystal to be the Star Fox trio in this game.

Has his icon already been discussed? Should Wolf have a different icon? Or keep the same one as Fox?

I'm sure that was just the result of poor programming. Remember, the cloaking device was just one item out of many, so it really wasn't worth the programmer's time to fix something which probably required extensive coding. But if it were a move which was an integral part of a character, making it work correctly would be top priority.

Like you said, I'm more than sure that it's possible to have it effect the AI such as causing them to be less aggressive. I'm sure it's even possible to go further than that -- such as causing the AI to completely lose track of where your character is, miss moves, face the wrong direction, etc. The cloaking device just wasn't coded to have any effect on the AI at all, so the CPU was never told to screw up.

 

[Rubydragon]

Well, in that case, I fully support Wolf's inclusion (with your moveset, which is nicely done, by the way).

Among anything else, wolves are my favorite animals.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Just theories? Yeah right, it's not like the developers just make a game without any pre-determined planning or anything. I'm trying to use logic to show that including a character ISN'T just a coincidence. This game has to appeal to all types of players you know. This is why it's beneficial to include a mix of heroes, villains, etc to add variety to the game -- any player can find a character who meets their preferences.

Why do you think Sakurai wants to add more female characters to Brawl? To attract more female players -- and create more satisfied consumers overall.

Why do you think Sakurai should add more villain characters to Brawl? To attract more players such as myself -- and create more satisfied consumers overall.

Umm, I think you've taken what I said the wrong way. Anyway, the big reason Smash Bros. appeals to such a large audience is from the inclusion of famous Nintendo characters, and any Nintendo fan has probably played with at least one of these mascots, and will want to pick them up again. It's not as much about a balance of heroes/villains. By the way, what kind of player do you classify yourself as? The kind that likes villains?

Anyway, it's pointless to argue about such a thing, we'll just have to see who makes it when the game comes out. We're not Sakurai, but Sakurai wants to make us happy. Anywho, we now return you to regularly scheduled speculation on Wolf's moveset.

 

[Limit]

By the way, what kind of player do you classify yourself as? The kind that likes villains?

Yeah.

To tell you the truth, most of my anger stems from the fact that when it came to villains, Melee's roster contained little to none. It was very disappointing, and I'm hoping Brawl won't be as big of an upset.

3 out of 25 was a joke.

 

[Rubydragon]

Either Wolf brings a large fanbase, or this thread is full of flames and heated discussions.

I didn't notice how big it was until now!

 

[Zero_P]

Faster than Falco, Slower than Fox.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Wolf for Brawl

 

[flyinfilipino]

In Assault, Wolf just happened to be the fastest character in the game. Dunno if that's the way he really is, or if they just wanted Wolf to be really broken. Would Wolf be a heavyweight, or a slightly heavy weight, like Ike?

 

[Puffs]

General Scales and Anglar Emperor would fit better as bosses.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

In Assault, Wolf just happened to be the fastest character in the game. Dunno if that's the way he really is, or if they just wanted Wolf to be really broken. Would Wolf be a heavyweight, or a slightly heavy weight, like Ike?

I'd prefer a little heavier than Fox

 

[flyinfilipino]

General Scales and Anglar Emperor would fit better as bosses.

You know, I support General Scales as a boss in SSE, since you didn't even get to fight him in Adventures.

 

[Limit]

Either Wolf brings a large fanbase, or this thread is full of flames and heated discussions.

I bring all three.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Just curious, how do you think this would do as Wolf's special moves?:

Wolf: Special Moves

Neutral B: Dual Rapid-Fire
-Wolf busts out two machine guns to deliver a short burst of shots that stun. You can hold down the button and tap the control stick to make Wolf face the other direction and fire, but not in the middle of the attack.

Up B: Booster Pack
-Wolf activates his Booster Pack which makes him start to hover in the air for a short period of time. You can use his Dual Rapid-Fire move while in the air, but not his other moves.

Down B: Sniper Rifle
-Wolf takes out a sniper rifle and fires a long range beam shot. Before you fire, you can tilt up to make him fire up in the air.

Side B: Bomb Plant
-Wolf turns invisible for a second and does a dash that's somewhat like Fox's Illusion, but with no damage. Any character he passed through suddenly has a small explosive planted on them, which explodes quickly.

Eh?

 

[Limit]

Just curious, how do you think this would do as Wolf's special moves?:

Wolf: Special Moves

Neutral B: Dual Rapid-Fire
-Wolf busts out two machine guns to deliver a short burst of shots that stun. You can hold down the button and tap the control stick to make Wolf face the other direction and fire, but not in the middle of the attack.

Up B: Booster Pack
-Wolf activates his Booster Pack which makes him start to hover in the air for a short period of time. You can use his Dual Rapid-Fire move while in the air, but not his other moves.

Down B: Sniper Rifle
-Wolf takes out a sniper rifle and fires a long range beam shot. Before you fire, you can tilt up to make him fire up in the air.

Side B: Bomb Plant
-Wolf turns invisible for a second and does a dash that's somewhat like Fox's Illusion, but with no damage. Any character he passed through suddenly has a small explosive planted on them, which explodes quickly.

Eh?

Strangely enough, friend, you...kind of...read my mind. Those were ALL my secondary ideas for his moveset, absolutely spot on.

Especially using Neutral B while flying with the Booster Pack, being able to tilt the angle of the sniper, the crazy bomb plant idea.

...

After reading it over a few times it's just creepy...

 

[Rarzy]

i think wolf needs to be a monster when it comes to weight and strength. imagine how effing badass he would be in a lumbering ganondorf like stature?

 

[flyinfilipino]

Strangely enough, friend, you...kind of...read my mind. Those were ALL my secondary ideas for his moveset, absolutely spot on.


...

After reading it over a few times it's just creepy...

Sorry! I just based it off Wolf in Assault (my favorite secret character...and my secret favorite character). I like using the booster pack and shooting stuff up with him, I figured him wielding dual machine guns (like his victory pose) would be fitting, he's the only one who can survive a sniper rifle hit (and I added the anti-air capability for Brawl), and his little dash dodge is cool, but I wanted to make it a bit more explosivey.

If two people can think of it, then surely Sakurai could! YOU HEAR SAKURAI? YOU HEAR?!! WOLF FOR BRAWL!

 

[chaos_Leader]

The sniper rifle is a popular possibility as a special move for Wolf, even I used it in my moveset: (Insert moveset here)

 

[who8therice]

Would Wolf be a heavyweight, or a slightly heavy weight, like Ike?

LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-gEg7hNpKM
Watch this. I trust Gimpyfish, and uhhhh... Ike is NOT slightly heavy weight according to him.

But wouldn't Wolf be as fast as fox? Or faster, like in Assault?

 

[flyinfilipino]

LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-gEg7hNpKM
Watch this. I trust Gimpyfish, and uhhhh... Ike is NOT slightly heavy weight according to him.

But wouldn't Wolf be as fast as fox? Or faster, like in Assault?

Hmm, I don't know why I thought Ike was a heavyweight then. I guess Wolf's speed will have to depend on his moveset.

 

[Rubydragon]

I'd prefer Wolf to be slower than Fox.

What about his icon?

 

[Wu Tang Gang]

I'd prefer Wolf to be slower than Fox.

What about his icon?

The Starfox Icon. Because of the Icon Theory, we can only assume it is that.

 

[peytar]

LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-gEg7hNpKM
Watch this. I trust Gimpyfish, and uhhhh... Ike is NOT slightly heavy weight according to him.

But wouldn't Wolf be as fast as fox? Or faster, like in Assault?

According to gimpy ike is very very very slow also i think wolf should have a higher jump, but be slower than fox and be middle way between moderate and heavy weight!

 

[Rubydragon]

That icon theory better be wrong... If not Isaac has no chance...

But wouldn't it be odd for a Star Wolf member to have a Star Fox icon?

 

[chaos_Leader]

Doesn't Bowser still use the mushroom icon? As for Wolf using Starfox icon, what would you have him use instead? As far as I know there is no established Starwolf icon.

 

[Metalknux]

I've already addressed Krystal's moveset potential, so yes that could possibly eliminate her from that predicament. However, don't be so quick to assume that Sakurai will choose a staff based moveset for her. Afterall, she has been in space animal gear ever since Adventures, so who really knows? She could be forced to have a made up moveset like Fox if Nintendo keeps ignoring her character background.

And on your second point, maybe being a villain doesn't give more moveset options (even though I have already proved it does). They may come from the same universe with the same weapons, but that doesn't mean they all have access to that technology. Wolf is known to use technology and spacecraft that rival the Star Fox Team's. What does Falco have access to? That's right, everything Fox is already using.

However, there is no arguing that being a villain, Wolf brings more VARIETY to Brawl than Falco would.

Everything that Fox is already using? In Brawl, Fox doesn't even use any Assault weapons. Wolf is known to use technology that rivals Starfox? That doesn't even make any sense. None of the guns have "rival" or dark versions, and Wolf has never been seen using weapons that Fox doesn't have access to. The only difference I've seen is that the good guys ride Arwings and the bad guys ride Wolfens. You can't make a moveset from that.

The rest of your argument is basically saying Fox and Falco are like the same person. That's like saying Sonic and Knuckles are the same person. They're both good guys who ride in ships, yeah, but what else do they have in common? They look different, they have different personalities, they're completely different people.

The only valid argument I've seen you make is that Wolf adds more variety, and that's true. But I wouldn't eliminate Falco just yet.

 

[Austin55]

I REALLY hope Wolf is in brawl instead of that furry Krystal. Besides, 64 was the masterpiece of the Star Fox series.

 

[Pieman0920]

^Isn't Wolf furry?

 

[Rubydragon]

True, true... Then I guess he would use the normal Star Fox icon.

 

[Austin55]

^Isn't Wolf furry?

Krystal was the signal for furries to hijack the star fox series fanbase though.

 

[chaos_Leader]

'Utility Character' Theorey

Everything that Fox is already using? In Brawl, Fox doesn't even use any Assault weapons. Wolf is known to use technology that rivals Starfox? That doesn't even make any sense. None of the guns have "rival" or dark versions, and Wolf has never been seen using weapons that Fox doesn't have access to. The only difference I've seen is that the good guys ride Arwings and the bad guys ride Wolfens. You can't make a moveset from that.

The rest of your argument is basically saying Fox and Falco are like the same person. That's like saying Sonic and Knuckles are the same person. They're both good guys who ride in ships, yeah, but what else do they have in common? They look different, they have different personalities, they're completely different people.

The only valid argument I've seen you make is that Wolf adds more variety, and that's true. But I wouldn't eliminate Falco just yet.

Villain or not, it is most likely that Wolf/Falco will be used to represent StarFox Assault, the latest and greatest of their respective series, while Fox sticks to the good old classic (Landmaster from SF64 as final smash) The variety in Assault is enough to give both Falco and Wolf unique characteristics from one-another derived from the SFA gameplay. the greatest, if only risk would be making either character too similar to existing ones, ex: Snake, Samus. these are examples of what I shall dub 'Utility Characters' these are characters who use Lots of items and projectile weapons in their moves. A fine example of a 'Utility Character' is Link, although he can be considered a kind of hybrid between Utilitarian and Sword weilder. thus far, all utility characters have been relatively heavyweight or floaty. this leaves a niche of medium-light Utilitarian character placements that could be filled with Wolf, Falco or both. (unless there are more deserving characters outside the StarFox series that fit the bill)

Feel free to discuss/criticize/flame/ect...

 

[Patinator]

Wow. Lots of intelligent posting/flaming/killing nowadays.

It seems the Star Wolf Squadron page on the SmashWiki has been deleted! Then why not the SSS Page? The R.I.D.L.E.Y. one was! It's a conspiracy against Wolf and Ridley! Conspiracy!

Um, yeah. Anyway, how does one join the Squadron?