Mr. Sunny Patch
Smash Journeyman
Wolf Ftb!!!!!!!!!!! Whooooooooooooooooooot!!!!!!
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Wolf O'Donnell for Brawl: The only good choice for a starfox villain
- Thread starter xianfeng
- Start date
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Patinator
Smash Champion
Umm, what he said? ^^;
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
I haven't been a troll yet... and since Wu Tang Gang's posts lead me to believe that he's a child... he will be ignored by me in any further, childish posts.
Anyway... Come on... Wolf isn't as important or popular as falco... everyone knows that and most of you probably can even admit this.
So fox is in right? so that's one SF rep. I also think tahat most of us would admit that 3 reps is the absolute most for SF since the series doesn't have near the power to merit any more.
So we've got 1 down: fox.
all right that leaves at most 2 slots for 3 characters
Falco, Krystal and Wolf are the 3 most likely.
Well... falco and Wolf are, by default, fox clones... it takes work not to make them be.
Krystal is in her own division.
So one figures that it would be Krystal + Folco or Wolf for the other spot
.... well... I mean... since they chose falco in melee over wolf, and falco is more important, more popular, has more seniority and is less like fox than wolf..... I mean it just doesn't look good for wolf.
So yes, wolf is the most likely canidate for brawl... after Falco and Krystal... question is whether or not a series with the little power that Starfox now has would merit 4 characters
Anyway... Come on... Wolf isn't as important or popular as falco... everyone knows that and most of you probably can even admit this.
So fox is in right? so that's one SF rep. I also think tahat most of us would admit that 3 reps is the absolute most for SF since the series doesn't have near the power to merit any more.
So we've got 1 down: fox.
all right that leaves at most 2 slots for 3 characters
Falco, Krystal and Wolf are the 3 most likely.
Well... falco and Wolf are, by default, fox clones... it takes work not to make them be.
Krystal is in her own division.
So one figures that it would be Krystal + Folco or Wolf for the other spot
.... well... I mean... since they chose falco in melee over wolf, and falco is more important, more popular, has more seniority and is less like fox than wolf..... I mean it just doesn't look good for wolf.
So yes, wolf is the most likely canidate for brawl... after Falco and Krystal... question is whether or not a series with the little power that Starfox now has would merit 4 characters
Pieman0920
Smash Master
Wah? People actually did say Wolf was more important than Falco in this thread? Falco has two more SF games than Wolf, and got picked over him in Melee. There hasn't been enough for Wolf since Melee to bring him higher than Falco either.
Stryks
Smash Hero
Ok stop right there, now I know ur just some n00b kid who has 0 to no imagination, saying wolf and falco would be clones in rbawl.. .jesus christ...
I can make up a wolf moveste, SO can sakurai, and Im sure he can make a new moveset for falco...
now falco is more important than wolf or krystal, but how is krystal more deserving than wolf? thats something that not many have answered...
and also, FE got 2 reps in melee, and the series wasnt even known in the states, and SF got the same amount of characters, with the roster nearly doubleing, I think they can add 2 new characters to the mix dont you? it sounds like a lot, but compre to other franchises, 4 reps aint a lot, and when the roster is gonna be what 35-40? 4 is a small number...
JUST because krystal has the staff automatically she has priority over the rest? give wolf some metallic claws and we got a space animal who is almost completely melee based...
Pieman0920
Smash Master
Krystal and Wolf have appeared the same amount of times, and when you look at them all together, it's kinda clear that she edges out Wolf.
SF64 Wolf's role was minimal at best, being just a reoccuring bad guy with not much else going for him. In comparison, Krystal was a major character in Star Fox Adventures, and was even playable for part of it. Krystal beats out Wolf here. By a lot.
Star Fox Assualt: Wolf was basically the boss of the third level, and then showed up to help Fox later on on multiple occasions. Krystal was a assiting wing..uh woman, throughout as much of the game as you kept her alive. They were both playable in multiplayer. Overall though, Wolf has the edge, as Krystal didn't distringuish herslef from the other two wingmen. The difference in their importance though was less than SF64 Wolf to Adventures Krystal.
Star Fox Command: Everyone was important here, but Kystal and Fox's relationship was a constant among all of the storylines. Wolf had his own endings, but Krystal had more. They were both playable, but Krystal had more forms. She was more important.
So it's basically 2 to 1 in favor of Krystal here. =/
SF64 Wolf's role was minimal at best, being just a reoccuring bad guy with not much else going for him. In comparison, Krystal was a major character in Star Fox Adventures, and was even playable for part of it. Krystal beats out Wolf here. By a lot.
Star Fox Assualt: Wolf was basically the boss of the third level, and then showed up to help Fox later on on multiple occasions. Krystal was a assiting wing..uh woman, throughout as much of the game as you kept her alive. They were both playable in multiplayer. Overall though, Wolf has the edge, as Krystal didn't distringuish herslef from the other two wingmen. The difference in their importance though was less than SF64 Wolf to Adventures Krystal.
Star Fox Command: Everyone was important here, but Kystal and Fox's relationship was a constant among all of the storylines. Wolf had his own endings, but Krystal had more. They were both playable, but Krystal had more forms. She was more important.
So it's basically 2 to 1 in favor of Krystal here. =/
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
How can you call someone a n00b, when you didn't even know about the Krystal voice actor leak incident .
and Wolf probably would be decent in brawl.. but he would have to come after Falco, and Krystal.
Patinator
Smash Champion
I agree. Or at least with the bolded parts. I'm not gonna get into any arguments or silly flame wars, but anyway... One thing about the paragraph about FE's two characters in SSBM.
Roy was merely an advertisement for FE 6 in Japan. In fact, he DEBUTED in Melee, debuting in the FE series in '02. That's the reason Roy was in. If FE 6 was already out or Sakurai said no to whoever asked him to turn Roy into a commercial (LOL), Roy probably wouldn't have been in. So just Marth.
Plus, it's already obvious clones won't exist, for the most part. My "proof", if it COULD be called that, below. Still an iffy subject, although clones were the result of Melee's... Rushedness.
1, Mario has FLUDD, which Luigi cannot. That means only two alike Special Moves, Super Jump Punch and Fireball. And even then, they differ in Melee dramatically.
2, IF C. Falcon is in, Ganondorf (Also if, playability wise) most likely won't be a clone. Zelda and Link are all Twilight Princess'd up, so he will be too. One word: sword. Or who knows (Except Sakurai); maybe Falcon will have a different moveset?
Okay, that's not much. I don't have anything really that, without a doubt, PROVES no clones, but I do give a good argument, I believe.
And it's even entirely possible we'll have 50 characters! 5-7/8 Mario, 4-6 Legend of Zelda, 3-5 Pokemon, 3-4 Star Fox, 1-3 Metroid, 2-3 DK, etc.
Well, there's my two... Er, three... Well, okay, there's my fifty cents.
EDIT: DeuceBlade also has a point. Krystal IS in Brawl, but maybe not a playable character. Role unconfirmed, much like Sheik and Ganondorf. Possibly AT, SSE minor character, who knows? Despite the fact I'll die from fire by saying this, I'm fine with Krystal being in Brawl.
Stryks
Smash Hero
Ok sokrystal gets kidnapped, she drops the staff and thus fox uses it, and fox rescues her at the end... woo pee doo big role, seriously she may have been playable, but that doesnt mean shes more important to the franchise as wolf...
Seriously I bet a lot of people dont know the leak crap, and I havent found the article were it mentions that "if u dont know about the krystal leak ur a n00b"
Wolf has been out longer with the series, and deserves a shotm being now a reocurring villain, and main rival of fox, and also he would do a bigger impact in the SSE as an enemy, than krystal would be just being a partner, like diddy is with fox now, yeah thats sure ground breaking >.>
Besides wolf was never outside his ship before melee so there wasnt a predetermined look for him, only just his face, I bet falco was added cause of similarities with the close,and being in the same team, they must have had similair training... whtever falco ismore important, he should be in brawl, and so should wolf and krystal, but seriously just because krystal had a bigger role in an adventure game than wolf had in a true SF game on the 64, doesnt mean shes more important...
hell she aint truely a SF character, if the game wasnt bough by nintendo(or rare IDK) krystla would have still been a cat...
AGAIN I have NOTHING against krystal, and also have NO IDEA why rkystal fans are here in a wolf thread, IMO wolf is more important to the series, being the most reocurring villain, krystla is just some firl u have to save in adventures, just another pilot and in command she was just there for some love scenes of the story...
wolf is there to cause trouble and to prevent from fox to keep going forward, by either jus tstoping himor killing him...
Seriously I bet a lot of people dont know the leak crap, and I havent found the article were it mentions that "if u dont know about the krystal leak ur a n00b"
Wolf has been out longer with the series, and deserves a shotm being now a reocurring villain, and main rival of fox, and also he would do a bigger impact in the SSE as an enemy, than krystal would be just being a partner, like diddy is with fox now, yeah thats sure ground breaking >.>
Besides wolf was never outside his ship before melee so there wasnt a predetermined look for him, only just his face, I bet falco was added cause of similarities with the close,and being in the same team, they must have had similair training... whtever falco ismore important, he should be in brawl, and so should wolf and krystal, but seriously just because krystal had a bigger role in an adventure game than wolf had in a true SF game on the 64, doesnt mean shes more important...
hell she aint truely a SF character, if the game wasnt bough by nintendo(or rare IDK) krystla would have still been a cat...
AGAIN I have NOTHING against krystal, and also have NO IDEA why rkystal fans are here in a wolf thread, IMO wolf is more important to the series, being the most reocurring villain, krystla is just some firl u have to save in adventures, just another pilot and in command she was just there for some love scenes of the story...
wolf is there to cause trouble and to prevent from fox to keep going forward, by either jus tstoping himor killing him...
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
You are failing to realize that while Krystal has recently become an important Character, Wolf never was... He could be removed from any Star Fox game and the entire story would probably still make sense.. especially in Star Fox 64.
Wolf's team name is just a play on Star Fox.. While I will admit Wolf is one of the more recognizable characters, I can only compare him to characters such as Dark Link, yeah it shows up occasionally in some games.. but it is just a dark version of the protagonist.. Clone if you will..
Pieman0920
Smash Master
That role in Adventures was a heck of a lot more than Wolf's in 64. >_>
Wolf may have been around longer, but so has Andross. And the playable characters have a higher impact than a boss or enemy would. You should know that. Instead of one little fight, they move and progress through the game. Plus, Wolf isn't the type for a SE boss. Heck, Pigma's more of that type. =/
And what really seperates Wolf from Fox besides that face? If you stuck that onto Fox's body, and changed the tail color, you'd have Wolf. And it does make her more important. (Heck, she's been more important in a "true" SF game also)
Hypothetical alternate realities don't matter.
I don't get what you said in this last paragraph, but your value of who and what is more important is scewered. That role you had there could go to any of the other SF villains, as they have almost all played the exact same role but more so. Heck, look at Pigma. He's got Aparoid powers, helped kill Fox's father, and has shown up in all the games Wolf has, but has been more of a villain. =/
Chaosblade77
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2007
- Messages
- 1,958
I am about 99% sure Falcon out prioritizes Ganondorf on the moveset. Why would Falcon get a new one when he has had the same one since N64, and Ganondorf just stole most of his moves for Melee due to the rush? We already know he was supposed to use a sword in Melee, I don't see why Falcon would be the one getting a new moveset, makes no sense at all.
Wu Tang Gang
Smash Ace
Not really, it makes you wonder why he has a grudge on Fox. That's, the spice of it. He's to Fox as Metaknight is to Kirby.
Star Fox Assualt: Wolf was basically the boss of the third level, and then showed up to help Fox later on on multiple occasions. Krystal was a assiting wing..uh woman, throughout as much of the game as you kept her alive. They were both playable in multiplayer. Overall though, Wolf has the edge, as Krystal didn't distringuish herslef from the other two wingmen. The difference in their importance though was less than SF64 Wolf to Adventures Krystal.
Star Fox Command: Everyone was important here, but Kystal and Fox's relationship was a constant among all of the storylines. Wolf had his own endings, but Krystal had more. They were both playable, but Krystal had more forms. She was more important.
So it's basically 2 to 1 in favor of Krystal here. =/[/QUOTE]
Wolf has an equally important role to Falco. Krystal voice leak for all you know could be the Arwing thing, like Peppy and Slippy in Melee.
Hah, I'm a child? I stutter much less than you, and you yourself seem like a puppet to the majority of the crowd.
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
Yes it is true, Pigma is far more important than Wolf, too bad he was destroyed.
Wolf will most likely be in Brawl, but my guess is either: Sticker, or part of the intro like in melee.
Wu Tang Gang
Smash Ace
Pigma would of gotten priority if he wasn't dead. By The Way, did Peppy die in Assault?
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
Peppy retired... hence krystal I think.
Wu Tang Gang
Smash Ace
Oh, I was afraid that he died when he opened the gate to Aparoid world, I didn't beat the Aparoid Queen yet.
Pieman0920
Smash Master
Pigma has never really stayed dead though. Everyone thought he died in Assualt, and then he shows up just fine in Command. Still a aparoid, but still living. Heck, he's still alive technically if you don't kill him in those routes.
Stryks
Smash Hero
Dark link is a personality-less character, were wolf has plenty of that, and dark link is an exact duplicant of link only dark, wolf is not, wolf is not a fox with dark colors, hes a wolf with a cibernetic eye, who wants to kill fox and is the leader of his own team...
Wolf was never an important character? yeah im sure andross would have just picked anyone to be his final line of defense, also, what about his role in assault and command, how is he not important? ok take out wolf out of assault, tell me how could he have NOT make a diference?
WHY would he be a sticker? hes now the most reocurring villain that STILL alive...
Seriously is wolf is a sticker,krystals dialogue leak whatever is just a brief talk fox has before his ship went down, that how it rolls, u like krystal? yay for you, but facts are he has as much chance as krystla if not more...
Wu Tang Gang
Smash Ace
PUT ****ING SPOILER TAGS! God. Now I know what to expect when I get Command.
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
I can see wolf eventually joining star fox if he continues to "help fox", and Andross is more reoccurring then wolf and it is unknown if he is truly dead or not.
I will admit Wolf was a little more important than usual in Assault, but Krystal still out prioritizes him.
and no.. he does not have more chance then Krystal, I am not even a Krystal fan and I know that.
Pieman0920
Smash Master
Actually, the cybernetic eye is basically copied with Fox's new scouter thing. Thus it's difficult to tell "Dark Fox" apart from Wolf. And quite frankly, Daisy is also her own character, but she's just a alt color too.d
Andross also had a giant robot as another line of defence. (And Pigma was also a final line of defence. Go Pigma) His role in that game really just didn't matter all that much, as was to flesh out the characters, kinda like Bill and Kat. In Assualt though he was important. (Command...well he could be important in Command, and he could also not be there at all fi need be)
Oh, and I forgot. Even if playable, he'll probably still have a sticker. =/
Andross also had a giant robot as another line of defence. (And Pigma was also a final line of defence. Go Pigma) His role in that game really just didn't matter all that much, as was to flesh out the characters, kinda like Bill and Kat. In Assualt though he was important. (Command...well he could be important in Command, and he could also not be there at all fi need be)
Oh, and I forgot. Even if playable, he'll probably still have a sticker. =/
Wu Tang Gang
Smash Ace
In 64, the only reason he wanted to get hired to kill Fox was because he had a grudge. That, is the spice of the story. Without it, you wouldn't be wondering about anything and it wouldn't really have much of a story.
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
Are you serious?
When I played Star Fox 64, I was 10x more interested in destroying andross than the minor grudge Wolf had on Fox... Wolf was so forgettable after I destroyed him (first to shut him up), Katt Monroe is more interesting than Wolf.
Wolf's true role in star fox is just as a filler villain, and he clearly does is not the "spice" of the story.
Pieman0920
Smash Master
Oh, sorry for the lack of spoilers. Thoug it does kinda go that way when you have discussions like this. Still, with Command's multiple storylines, there's a lot of characters who show up again. (Still, shouldn't you have already played SFC?)
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
Yeah Star Fox command shouldn't even be Canon to the story, it has so many branching story lines, I think there is even one where Fox and Krystal have a baby.
Pieman0920
Smash Master
Well it can easily be canon, just depending on what the next game does. If the group is all back to normal again in the next game, then there was a ending for that, and if the series becomes a glorified F-Zero 2, then there was a ending for that.
finalark
SNORLAX
I wouldn't call Wolf evil, although he was evil for some unexplained reson in Star Fox 64.
(Highlight for Star Fox Assult Spoilers)
.
(Highlight for Star Fox Assult Spoilers)
He's more of an anti-hero now. I mean, he did save Fox in Assult and didn't side with Andrew when he was attacking the Coranian Armata
Klonoa™
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2007
- Messages
- 39
Ugh, for christs sake. What is it with people? Wolf is a great character! Krystal is just a slutty blue fox that doesn't even have a staff anymore since Nintendo bought the rights to her. Everybodies reasons for hating on Wolf are invalid. People who say that he would be just like Fox are dumb as hell. They may as well complain about every single mirror character in melee such as Mario, Luigi, Marth, Roy, Falcon, Ganondorf, Pikachu, Pichu, etc. So STFU already! Odds are that they are going to get their own move lists this time around, and even if they dont, they will find a balance. I agree that Wolf is the only decent choice for a rival/enemy to the SF series. And come on guys... Pigma? Choosing an annoying pig over Wolf? Wolf was even in the intro to Smash Bros. Melee!
Look for yourselves. Don't believe it? Boot up the game yourselves.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=738082
Look for yourselves. Don't believe it? Boot up the game yourselves.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=738082
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
Ugh, for christs sake. What is it with people? Wolf is a great
He looks like a grey version of fox ... wait..
I'm sick of the whole clone debate. Clones are by no means helpful/interesting/creative. They were LAZY with melee. hey were rushed for time. Whatever. The reason people like clones is for balance. With clones balance can be achevied much easier. That prolly one of the biggest reason for the delay. If all the characters have different movesets they will have to balance those characters so not one character is too powerful. ie metaknight in the demo. Just because Something looks like fox doesn't mean it must copy the moves of him. The dev's are very creative this time around (look at pokemon trainer), any character can be put in this game with a moveset.
vesperview
Smash Hero
Ok, so let me get this straight, DeuceBlade wants Ness back who is a less popular in Japan semi clone of Lucas, not to mention they have absolutely no differences in their actual games, besides weapons, but he opposes Wolf's inclusion in Brawl cause he's too similar to Fox? God, the irony!
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
Wolf is more similar to Fox than Daisy is to peach... or at least roughly as similar.
People need to stop touting him as Fox's bowser when he's more like Fox's Wario... and no... don't tell me "well... Wario's in" because the wario that made it in is the wario ware wario who is completely different... Wolf has yet to establish himself like that.... as it is, Wolf is just like Dark Samus.
And the whole "Give Wolf metal claws" thing is stupid because... well... wolf has never had metal claws.... why don't we give Daisy a cybernetic arm and a laser eye so that she's not a clone of peach? with her moveset? When Wolf is essentially just a clone of Fox in the games, what makes it likely that he'd be any more than that in Brawl? And I know he could be "luigified".... but falco would need to be luigified first... and, sorry, Fox isn't important enough to have two semi-clones. Krystal not being anything like fox really makes her incredibly likely... most people seem to agree with this as well considering that most people consider her a "sure in" and wolf a "Definitely not"
And the whole "he's a villain, he needs to be in" argument... well that actually works against you considering that, with other series, allies take precedence over enemies:
In SSB:
-Luigi made it in before any enemy did.
-jiggly made it in before mewtwo... not quite the same, but similar.
In melee:
-falco before any SF enemy
-Zelda was in before G. Dorf
and as for the "FE has 2 reps and isn't a big series"
well that just completely fails and, if anything, is worse for wolf.
FE is a huge series in Japan... just goes to show you how much power Japan has.... and Wolf isn't really that popular outside of america to my knowledge.... Lyn didn't make it in in favor of Ike and Lyn was the more liked lord in america and other non-japan nations.... just sayin.
People need to stop touting him as Fox's bowser when he's more like Fox's Wario... and no... don't tell me "well... Wario's in" because the wario that made it in is the wario ware wario who is completely different... Wolf has yet to establish himself like that.... as it is, Wolf is just like Dark Samus.
And the whole "Give Wolf metal claws" thing is stupid because... well... wolf has never had metal claws.... why don't we give Daisy a cybernetic arm and a laser eye so that she's not a clone of peach? with her moveset? When Wolf is essentially just a clone of Fox in the games, what makes it likely that he'd be any more than that in Brawl? And I know he could be "luigified".... but falco would need to be luigified first... and, sorry, Fox isn't important enough to have two semi-clones. Krystal not being anything like fox really makes her incredibly likely... most people seem to agree with this as well considering that most people consider her a "sure in" and wolf a "Definitely not"
And the whole "he's a villain, he needs to be in" argument... well that actually works against you considering that, with other series, allies take precedence over enemies:
In SSB:
-Luigi made it in before any enemy did.
-jiggly made it in before mewtwo... not quite the same, but similar.
In melee:
-falco before any SF enemy
-Zelda was in before G. Dorf
and as for the "FE has 2 reps and isn't a big series"
well that just completely fails and, if anything, is worse for wolf.
FE is a huge series in Japan... just goes to show you how much power Japan has.... and Wolf isn't really that popular outside of america to my knowledge.... Lyn didn't make it in in favor of Ike and Lyn was the more liked lord in america and other non-japan nations.... just sayin.
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
How can Ness be a semi clone of Lucas?, You do realize Ness is before lucas... right?
I don't oppose Wolf's inclusion in brawl, I believe he is out prioritized by the likes of Falco, and Krystal.
Please go back a page or 2, before you jump to conclusions.
vesperview
Smash Hero
Oh I forgot how Lucas didn't get confirmed before Ness in Brawl[/sarcasm] the fact that you're using the "He is a gray colored Fox" argument, proves you're a hypocrite.
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
You still have not answered how Ness will be a clone of lucas, Ness IF confirmed would not be the clone.. because everyone knows Ness came first..
I only said Wolf is just a gray fox because he clearly looks like a gray version of Fox in that picture... or do you not see that?
vesperview
Smash Hero
They're still far more similar than Wolf and Fox can ever be, so supporting Ness makes you hypocrite.
Yeah you SO said it just because of that! Why don't you just admit you have a huge bias that let's you criticize characters for being fairly similar unless you like them?
finalark
SNORLAX
I never said I didn't like Wolf, just saying he really isn't a villain. He would be a great character for Brawl.
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
I will admit that I was trying to infesis that Wolf would be clonish of fox, but look at his character in general.. he is a bit of a clone.
vesperview
Smash Hero
And Ness and Lucas aren't? Hahaha! Good one! Wolf and Fox would be more different than Lucas and Ness are.
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