Wobbling: the breakdown

[The Hypnotist]

Me and my friend are having a little dispute about wobbling, we need to know the following...

Is it usually banned or not banned (percentage breakdown would be nice)?

Examples of tourneys where it's legal.

Examples of tourneys where it's illegal.

Why, in detail, do you think it should be banned or legal?

 

[Wobbles]

*pound*2 - illegal
Evo Circuit Tourneys - legal
OC3 - illegal
FCD - Legal, I'm pretty sure.

Seems like for each big tourney that permits it, another one lets it go. I'd guess, from big tournaments, its 50/50.

I don't really want to go into my opinion on its ban-worthiness or lack thereof. I'm tired of the topic, and nobody on either side of the debate listens to the other.

 

[PB&J]

i don't know all the percentages but i don't think it should be banned...it makes me fustrated when i ply people and they always think im going to wobble...i narely use it but being banned is dumb

 

[The Hypnotist]

Hahaha, ok guys, thanks! Other thoughs by anyone else?

 

[1048576]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=101770&page=10

There's the majority of the Wobbling argument.

 

[The Hypnotist]

Thank you!

 

[BigRick]

Well it all goes down to the organizers... if you're going to a specific tourney, just ask them.

lol and Evo simply doesn't ban stuff... they actually praise Wobblers there

 

[Askeflink]

RoS4 aka RoX4, biggest tournament in Europe arranged by Helios didn't ban wobbling.

 

[Rage.]

Of course EVO isnt going to Ban it
the other games they host are all about infinates

 

[BigRick]

Of course EVO isnt going to Ban it
the other games they host are all about infinates

Ignorance at its best

 

[Xsyven]

It's simple. If you go against an opponent that gets all butt hurt about wobbling, just tell him to counterpick with Ice Climbers.

Ice Climbers can't wobble Ice Climbers. I think that since there is a way around it, that it shouldn't be banned.



But still. I don't complain that it's banned. I think banning it is completely understandable.

 

[Wobbles]

If the way around it is to reduce the competitive playfield to IC dittos, then it should be banned.

But there are other ways around it, so it shouldn't be. But it is.

 

[Team Giza]

But still. I don't complain that it's banned. I think banning it is completely understandable.

No it is not completely understandable for high level tournaments. It is completely out of the question cause it takes out a unbroken character tactic with little to no real argument for why they are doing it that would conform to any of the basic ideas of competitive gaming, especially in fighting games.

 

[RastaImposta]

*pound*2 - illegal
Evo Circuit Tourneys - legal
OC3 - illegal
FCD - Legal, I'm pretty sure.

Seems like for each big tourney that permits it, another one lets it go. I'd guess, from big tournaments, its 50/50.

I don't really want to go into my opinion on its ban-worthiness or lack thereof. I'm tired of the topic, and nobody on either side of the debate listens to the other.

Yah, this topic has been beaten to death with a stick, then popo's hammer.

Usually, this is what Ive noticed, when a tourny realizes that Wobbles might actually compete, they ban the wobbles.

 

[Team Giza]

Of course EVO isnt going to Ban it
the other games they host are all about infinates

Umm... what other game there has infinites? I guess 3S has one and it never comes up. CvS2 doesn't have any to my knowledge. Tekken 5 I don't even think has infinites besides maybe Steve Fox and that might be out of DR. Virtua Fighter infinites?... now thats a funny concept. Hells no. So we got Marvel vs Capcom 2... which really is more about resets and zoning then the infinites, unless you are Iron Man. I can only hope you were joking but thought I should be safe. Learn your games before you say stuff. Most Evo players are anti-infinites in games but they just don't like the idea of banning anything that isn't broken.

 

[1048576]

Okay let's not start another argument now. There's a whole thread to do that in. Giza, Wobbling is technically broken considering what most people (at least those that I've discussed this with) believe "broken" means in competitive gaming.

 

[JFox]

HOLY ****, Wobbles your avatar is AMAZING. Seriously, I want to give it an award. Best in show.

 

[choknater]

**** people, wobbling is so easy to avoid. here's how:

1. don't play against chudat in a tournament
2. don't play against wobbles in a tournament
3. if it's not those two, they're probably not that superb as an IC anyway. even if they wobble you, you can still win with peach/marth/falcon. easy as pie

and don't say there are a lot of good ic's out there, cuz there aren't.

 

[Team Giza]

Okay let's not start another argument now. There's a whole thread to do that in. Giza, Wobbling is technically broken considering what most people (at least those that I've discussed this with) believe "broken" means in competitive gaming.

No. Its not. What is broken in tournaments? Let me quote a very famous competitive gamers, and game developer, a man who's name is famous in the world of competitive video gaming, especially in fighters.

A multiplayer game is balanced if a reasonably large number of options available to the player are viable--especially, but not limited to, during high-level play by expert players.

Ice Climbers infinite does not ruin the balance of the game and this is proven obviously by the tournament results from the past year, were only one really major tournament is won by wobbling. Recently, other fighting game communities have been looking down on ours quite a bit because of the fact that even some of our community is thinking about banning a tactic that is pretty obviously not game breaking. It is a topic that needs to be brought up because it is not resolved yet, and you can see that it is unresolved because half the tournaments are banning it and half of them aren't.

---
Edit: Ack, sorry I mis-interrupted your post, I will keep it in the other topic from now on.

 

[N1c2k3]

Giza's got it about right...

 

[1048576]

Sorry for being a prick in that post you quoted, Giza. The machine wouldn't let me edit my posts. Anyway, essentially a broken tactic is a programming flaw which creates an imbalance in the mechanics of a game. Most infinites are broken in this sense.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Sorry for being a prick in that post you quoted, Giza. The machine wouldn't let me edit my posts. Anyway, essentially a broken tactic is a programming flaw which creates an imbalance in the mechanics of a game. Most infinites are broken in this sense.

Not true. By this definition wavedashing is broken, dash-dancing is broken, JC usmash is broken, etc., because they create imbalances. Eg., ICs have an awesome wavedash--Link does not. Fox's JC usmash is great, Marth's is not, etc.

It's considered broken if the imbalance is too severe to counter.

 

[RaptorHawk]

As a non IC player I want say something about wobbling.

If sheik is aloud to 0 to death me by chainthrowing. Then I see ABSOLUTELY no reason why wobbling should be banned. That's all I have to say.

 

[Team Giza]

Sorry for being a prick in that post you quoted, Giza. The machine wouldn't let me edit my posts. Anyway, essentially a broken tactic is a programming flaw which creates an imbalance in the mechanics of a game. Most infinites are broken in this sense.

Well I was kinda getting off topic since this is more of a breakdown of tournament banning threads. I was gonna edit my replying post too after I re-read your post and understood what you were trying to say more but couldn't edit the posts either. -.-; I hate when smashboards does that.

 

[Aesir]

Of course EVO isnt going to Ban it
the other games they host are all about infinates

by all their others you mean MVC2 right? since its the only infinite heavy game they run. All their others barely have infinites. =|

 

[Team Giza]

~smashboards makes people double post~

 

[Team Giza]

by all their others you mean MVC2 right? since its the only infinite heavy game they run. All their others barely have infinites. =|

Even MvC2 isn't too infinite heavy... what? We got Psylocke, Iron Man, Magneto... and umm... maybe Sabertooth... and even with the infinite Sabertooth isn't even playable against many other characters that don't have infinites. I think Marvel vs Capcom 2 is huge proof that infinites do not break games since characters like Cable, Storm and Sentinel are on the top and they do not have infinites. OMG! This means that Fox could actually be more broken then Ice Climbers even if they are allowed to use their infinite!

 

[takieddine]

As a non IC player I want say something about wobbling.

If sheik is aloud to 0 to death me by chainthrowing. Then I see ABSOLUTELY no reason why wobbling should be banned. That's all I have to say.

shiek cant 0-death everyone, plus you have more of a chance to get out of the CG with good DI.

 

[choknater]

shiek cant 0-death everyone, plus you have more of a chance to get out of the CG with good DI.

back throw to edgeguard on a fast faller is still a 0-death no matter how you look at it. any character can 0-death, it's just a matter of setting it up properly. for IC, it requires a grab at a decent percentage.

 

[Aesir]

most people who get cg'd by sheik normally can't get out till 80+ >_>

 

[Shai Hulud]

Fox's down-B is 0 - death on many characters at the edge. ZOMG BAN IT

 

[Team Giza]

back throw to edgeguard on a fast faller is still a 0-death no matter how you look at it. any character can 0-death, it's just a matter of setting it up properly. for IC, it requires a grab at a decent percentage.

Which means its not even a zero to death combo. Its a 20-30% to death combo, and nana has to be in the right position. @.@;

I smile at Shai Hulud's post.

 

[MookieRah]

This whole issue is silly. How many people in here think that ICs are the best character in the game? I mean, if you think this technique is broken then that means you believe that they are god tier. I bet most people here still wouldn't put them above fox even with their hatred of this technique.

 

[Shai Hulud]

This whole issue is silly. How many people in here think that ICs are the best character in the game? I mean, if you think this technique is broken then that means you believe that they are god tier. I bet most people here still wouldn't put them above fox even with their hatred of this technique.

Exactly. I've been bringing this up for ages. Other than Numbers, I don't know of anyone who actually thinks wobbling ICs are the best character in the game.

I think the real issue is that ChuDat is God Tier and certain pros like to ban wobbling if Chu or Wobbles is coming to their tournament. It's pathetic, really.

At best this puts ICs at bottom of high tier.

 

[Nintendude]

That's also how I feel. Until Ice Climbers are considered the best character in the game there's no reason to ban wobbling. Sometimes I do agree with it being banned though. I heard that it's banned at 0C3 so that people who fly thousands of miles to attend don't have to put up with losing to something as lame as wobbling, and I think that's a good idea.

 

[MookieRah]

I heard that it's banned at 0C3 so that people who fly thousands of miles to attend don't have to put up with losing to something as lame as wobbling, and I think that's a good idea.

I think if they are willing to fly thousands of miles for this game that they should learn to deal with it.

 

[Shai Hulud]

There aren't "lame" ways of losing and "cool" ways of losing. Besides, last I checked, Ice Climbers made up about 1 - 2% of tournament characters and are easily counterpicked. I heard Meep had two Peaches in his pool at FCD. Talk about lame.

 

[Smasher89]

Grab is avoidable and IC can be counterpicked, therefore IC is not gamebreaking neither wobbling, end of discussion.

 

[choknater]

just to emphasize smasher89's final words:


END

OF

DISCUSSION.

(That means you, 10873642019830971 guy.)

 

[Team Giza]

As long as wobbles is being banned at half the major tournaments... the discussion is not over.

edit to reply to post below: Alright Shai... I cannot argue with that.. @.@