Wobbling: the breakdown

[Shai Hulud]

As long as wobbles is being banned at half the major tournaments... the discussion is not over.

I think he means there's nothing else to say. Noone can refute the obvious argument that Ice Climbers are not the best character in the game and therefore could not be excessively broken. Anyone banning the technique is ignoring the obvious.

 

[ArcNatural]

I think the real reason wobbling is being banned is because of how long it takes to do in a match really. Shine spikes are instant, and other tactics like waveshining and shining into a wall can be smash DI'd out of for the most part, but at any rate it is still done quickly compared to wobbling. If your shined you can just be like ugh I got shined anyway back into the fray! With wobbling your like sweet mary, jfc, gdi, yeah I'll get a large cheese pizza, holy ghost and the spirit, odin's beard, mmmmm pizza, dthrow -> fsmash oh back to the game now!

There is nothing more frustrating than actually waiting for the wobbling to be complete. And it's not like the IC's have a choice either since wobbling does take a while to get into ko range. If wobbling was faster like a shinepike I think it would be much different. Everything else about it can be treated like the shine, other than the time it takes to gimp someone out with it.

 

[Eaode]

Shine spike is not an infinite.

Flatland drillshine infinite is nonexistant in competitive play and only works on select characters.

Wall assisted drillshine/waveshine infinites cannot be done on every stage.

You can possibly smash DI out of shine infinites.


No saying I agree about banning wobbling, but you really can't compare the shine to it.

 

[Speedsk8er]

Step 1-Oh? You're playing IC? (Pick Peach, Marth, Falco, Fox, Samus, Young Link, Link, GaW(?), Ganon, Jiggz, IC, Luigi(?), or Yoshi)
Step 2- Pick Pokefloats/rainbow cruise
Step 3- **** Nana
Step 4- ????
Step 5- PROFIT!

The only time I use wobbles is when I'm dealing with a proj spammer. There'e nothing more annoying than that(except for maybe being wobbled. lawl). My roommate and I had an argument about this yesterday where i'm like, "don't projectile spam and I won't do it" and he's like "It's not the same! You can't escape that!". ICs have a hella hard time dealing with projectile spam. Cheap only begets cheap. You don't want me to be cheap, then YOU don't be cheap. >_< Christ. I hate this argument... It pisses me off just thinking about it.

 

[Aesir]

Shine spike is not an infinite.

Flatland drillshine infinite is nonexistant in competitive play and only works on select characters.

Wall assisted drillshine/waveshine infinites cannot be done on every stage.

You can possibly smash DI out of shine infinites.


No saying I agree about banning wobbling, but you really can't compare the shine to it.

Flatland infinite is existant in competitive play. >_> grandfinals evo east. PC does it.

 

[pockyD]

rofl "cheap"

when will people stop calling things cheap

edit: how easily something is done shouldn't affect its legality, assuming both things are reasonable

for example, no one will argue that the drillshine infinite on link is "easy" (and it is definitely nowhere near as easy as wobbling, though much easier to set up), but it IS reasonable to expect a player to be able to do it (if someone starts doing it to you in tournament, you generally aren't so surprised you crap your pants and run out the door); therefore when banning one, banning the other is comparable in many cases IMO (as far as racking up lots of damage; it's clearly much much harder to stall using fox's but pretty much everyone agrees wobbling as a stall should be banned anyway)

 

[Aesir]

I beleive it shouldn't be banned but a cap should be inplace

You can only wobble up to 250 (I believe thats very generous.) Since you don't even need to go that high. >_>

<_<

 

[Lord Knight]

Wobbling for the purpose of stalling : banzorz.

Wobbling for the purpose of killing: all good. Highest I've needed to go was like 180% on Dreamland vs Peach. F

 

[Aesir]

I think 250 is over kill thinking about it. >_>

 

[pockyD]

Wobbling for the purpose of stalling : banzorz.

Wobbling for the purpose of killing: all good. Highest I've needed to go was like 180% on Dreamland vs Peach. F

i think everyone arguing to keep wobbling legal still wants it banned as a stall

and i think you'd have to go higher than that with falcon on dreamland

 

[Aesir]

^ chances of him coming back are slim though ;o

 

[Shai Hulud]

Captain Falcon can live on Dreamland up to the lower 200s but that's the highest you ever need to go. And I don't think he'll live that long if you use fsmash instead of dsmash.

 

[Eaode]

Or you could get him to 300 and let him go and play super sudden death


SpeedSk8er: take on of the line breaks out of your sig. The last sentence makes the quote.

 

[Wobbles]

Of course you shouldn't use it to stall. That would be absolutely broken. I get a grab on any stock count where we're even? I wait out the timer tapping A.

Yeah, that's some kind of a deep game. And.. it takes about 30 seconds MAX to get somebody to a killing percent with that. We're assuming it's Dreamland and I grab you at 0, yeah it takes a while.

People mostly just don't like watching their whole stock seep away. Compare the following:

"Blip...blip."

"Grab... psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, BOOM."

One is EXCITING and takes SKILL and it's so fast and advanced and...the other is boring gay unfair ban ban ban ban.

You know what the real heart of the matter is? People are too ****ing lazy to learn how to combat a new character and strategy. They thought that getting past Fox and Falco and Marth and Sheik and Peach was enough. God forbid there's something else to learn. Aren't Fox and Falco already operating on a gameplan of "don't get grabbed" whenever they fight a Marth or Peach? Isn't that one of the basics for surviving at a high level of play? Not getting grabbed by a character with the highest grab potential in the entire GAME or else you probably die.

Oh no. A character with an inferior grab and worse statistics can ALSO kill us off a grab? Ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban.

You know what? I really like Sheik's needles. How they stop charge shots, lasers, turnips, recoveries, slow down the game by lying all over the place, and combo. But you know what I don't like? Bowser's flame cancel. Let's fix that in the next version. We don't want Bowser players having an unfair edge.

Deja ****ing vu.

 

[Eaode]

Also note that Sheik's needles cancel aswell

 

[SPAWN]

Wobbles is my hero. Done.

 

[Lord Knight]

"Blip...blip."

"Grab... psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, BOOM."

I like the 2nd one better.

 

[1048576]

Of course you shouldn't use it to stall. That would be absolutely broken. I get a grab on any stock count where we're even? I wait out the timer tapping A.

Yeah, that's some kind of a deep game. And.. it takes about 30 seconds MAX to get somebody to a killing percent with that. We're assuming it's Dreamland and I grab you at 0, yeah it takes a while.

People mostly just don't like watching their whole stock seep away. Compare the following:

"Blip...blip."

"Grab... psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, psh, BOOM."

One is EXCITING and takes SKILL and it's so fast and advanced and...the other is boring gay unfair ban ban ban ban.

You know what the real heart of the matter is? People are too ****ing lazy to learn how to combat a new character and strategy. They thought that getting past Fox and Falco and Marth and Sheik and Peach was enough. God forbid there's something else to learn. Aren't Fox and Falco already operating on a gameplan of "don't get grabbed" whenever they fight a Marth or Peach? Isn't that one of the basics for surviving at a high level of play? Not getting grabbed by a character with the highest grab potential in the entire GAME or else you probably die.

Oh no. A character with an inferior grab and worse statistics can ALSO kill us off a grab? Ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban.

You know what? I really like Sheik's needles. How they stop charge shots, lasers, turnips, recoveries, slow down the game by lying all over the place, and combo. But you know what I don't like? Bowser's flame cancel. Let's fix that in the next version. We don't want Bowser players having an unfair edge.

Deja ****ing vu.

Just so you know, the main problem I have with it isn't its animation or the fact that I don't want to learn how to counter it. The problem I have with it is that it's difficult to counter for an entire match. In most fighters, a solid combo or a few smart reads can knock off half a life bar, so matches rarely take longer than a minute. Infinites are moderately mild in this setting. In smash, matches usually last around four minutes, and it's difficult to outmindgame someone for that long. Eventually you will play worse than your opponent for a split second unless you are like entirely composed of coffee. That's my opinion. It's easier to not mess up for a minute than it is to not mess up for four minutes. I know how to counter it. I can l-cancel and laser camp. You fall into about five upsmashes. I'm doing well. Suddenly about two minutes into the match I shield. Oh ****. tap tap tap death. Now I'm down for the rest of the match. Not because I'm too lazy to learn how to counter it, but because I played worse than you for seven frames.

Not that that's what would happen if I played you. I'd probably realize my skill<your skill, pick Kirby, swallowcide your Nana, and laugh maniacally in your face.

I just don't like the fact that you generalize everyone who wants it banned.

I also take issue with the "inferior grab and worse statistics" part, but that's another argument entirely.

Honestly, I'm divided now that I can't wobble anymore (haven't done it for so long) and because everyone else thinks it's tame enough to be allowed.

Lastly, just so you know, around 23-30 percent, Marth has to pivot to continue chaingrabbing an animal if he doesn't DI. Most Marth's can't do that.

 

[Team Giza]

Your mindgame and long match issue is actually no problem in Smash. You know why? Cause you have four stock and one mistake can only lead you to lose, at most, one of those stocks. Marvel vs Capcom 2 is a great example of powerful, powerful tactics flying all around the range of teams in this game. Many of them will cost you a stock (one character) if you just make a single mistake. But wait a minute? The Marvel vs Capcom 2 community gets along great, from low level to high level play, with these tactics in play. Yes, when matches reach the 4 minute mark, yes, you are bound to make mistake. 4 minutes huh? A minute a stock, eh? Most MvC2 matches last 3 minutes. Which is interesting, you know why? Cause in that you have 3 characters (which I feel you can easily compare to stocks). You know what else is interesting about Marvel vs Capcom 2? Its that a big mistake can actually lead you to lose 2 stocks because of the assist system in the game. Even so, the game still manages to be popular and the tournament scenes still get along great with all this crazy tactics that were discovered long after the game was released. I think we as a community can learn a lot from Marvel vs Capcom 2. It's serious business, ya know?

 

[Mr.C]

I posted this in another Wobbling topic.

wobbling is imbalanced.

It gets rid of your characters ability to move and can be USED to stall a match which is why peach bombing, freeze glitch's are banned.....

everyone gets grabbed and the only argument for people who want wobbling is "dont get grabbed" which is ridiculous. If dont get grabbed works then "powershield everytime" is a valid excuse for being laser spammed. Except getting grabbed usually leads to taking a hit or two in the wobbling's case one grab leads to one stock completely gone. Now if people are going to argue then why are cg's and shines allowed??!?!@# because you can DI, tech and atleast have a CHANCE to survive while with the wobbles the only chance you have of not dieing is if your opponents messes up.....which isnt going to happen because the wobbles is jabs and ftilts. lol. Now go back and watch ken vs pc chris or m2k vs any other top player in the u.s.a all of these pros average 10-20...if the best in the world are being grabbed 10-20 times in a single match how is wobbling not imbalanced? everyone gets grabbed...ofcourse skilled people can reduce the amount of times we are grabbed but still 4 grabs = you lose the match if your playing ice climbers aka imbalanced.

Look back at recent bannings of levels/techniques. Peach bombing was banned because it can stall meaning you can get in %'s ahead then stall the whole match ofcourse the counter to this is "dont let him get ahead" which is also ridiculous. Peach bombing was a very powerful and imbalanced technique which is why it was banned. Same with Onett/Hyrule because of Fox players. These are very one sided matchs when a Fox counter picks one of these levels especially Hyrule. Why? because Fox can simply laser, get percentage and run away for 7 minutes. Imbalanced which is why Hyrule was banned. It was unfair to other characters. Ofcourse the counter to Fox on Hyrule is "dont get lasered."

I have an idea lets all "Not get hit" and were automatically the best in the world! YAY! lol gg

We still do not see wobbling Ice Climbers winning major tournaments over and over and over.

Why? because there are two actual good Ice Climber players that can wobble efficiently. At this late in the smash era top players will not pick up another character they are not comfortable with and use them in tournaments.

If you people seriously think wobbling is not imbalanced....lay off the cocaine.

The fact that a game like MvC2 can allow so many things that are just as powerful as wobbling causes to a single stock (a stock being one of your three characters in MvC2), then why cannot a game like SSBM be fine playing at high levels with this in it when you even have more chances after it happens?

because in games like MvC2 alot of combinations of characters are capable of infiniting, which means it is very easy to come back from losing. In smash if you have one stock taken off by wobbling at 0% and still have chances of being inf'd again your chances of coming back and winning are slim.

Lets just remember the only character in the game that has a technique that can infinite is Ice Climber's. Where in MvC2 most people use the same character combinations allowing them to infinite while in SSBM in order to infinite you have to be Ice Climbers.


---------------

LOL @ me being in LordKnights sig LOL

 

[BigRick]

In smash if you have one stock taken off by wobbling at 0% and still have chances of being inf'd again your chances of coming back and winning are slim.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BWJ2bBlO1Q

MvC2 = 2 good
SSBM = 2 good

Oh btw a bunch of stuff you say about Marvel is untrue...

For instance the best team in Marvel doesn't even use infinites hehehe

Oh and you used a bunch of crap argumentation techniques in your last post lol

 

[Mr.C]

i didnt see one wobble in that whole match lols

heres chu vs jiano in crews at fcd where chu wobbles then plays vidjo and wobbles again

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4wPybFSu0Lo

and i said nothing about the best in mvc2 not inf
i just multiple characters and combinations are capable of infiniting.

EDIT: the match that you linked Ice Climbers grabbed a total of 11 times 8/11 of the grabs nana was with popo. Jiano is a very good player and he was grabbed 8 times.... meaning a possible of 8 wobbles...thats over kill. Im guessing Wobbles was not allowed at that tourney or chu just didnt want to do it.

jiano vs chu 1st match in crews
6 grabs from (6/6 w/ nana "2 of them being wobbles)

Chu vs Vidjo (a peach)
7 grabs with 2 stock (5/7 with nana "1 wobble)

thats just showing how pro's get grabbed and how many chances there are to wobble.

 

[BigRick]

1 grab doesn't equal 1 wobble chance...

If you get grabbed at low%, you can wiggle out of it... the ICs must use their CGs for at least 1 rep.

You might get grabbed, but Nana might not be around so that the IC can start the Wobblin'

Wobbling is the most powerful move in the game... but what's wrong with it if it helps a weaker char out???

You think that Chu would've had a chance against Vidjo and his gay counterpick if it wasn't for Wobbling? He would've probably used his Pikachu instead.

Wobbling is just another gay weapon to fight gayness with.

 

[Overswarm]

i didnt see one wobble in that whole match lols

heres chu vs jiano in crews at fcd where chu wobbles then plays vidjo and wobbles again

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4wPybFSu0Lo

and i said nothing about the best in mvc2 not inf
i just multiple characters and combinations are capable of infiniting.

EDIT: the match that you linked Ice Climbers grabbed a total of 11 times 8/11 of the grabs nana was with popo. Jiano is a very good player and he was grabbed 8 times.... meaning a possible of 8 wobbles...thats over kill. Im guessing Wobbles was not allowed at that tourney or chu just didnt want to do it.

jiano vs chu 1st match in crews
6 grabs from (6/6 w/ nana "2 of them being wobbles)

Chu vs Vidjo (a peach)
7 grabs with 2 stock (5/7 with nana "1 wobble)

thats just showing how pro's get grabbed and how many chances there are to wobble.

First off, you cna get out of any grab at 40% or below before the player can headbutt you with POPO. I know. I do it a lot.

Second, I myself beat Jiano with my Ice Climbers. I 2 stocked him. I didn't wobble him. I just reverse dair chain grabbed him. Jiano has trouble against the Ice Climbers, plain and simple. He is better than me (he won the set), but my Ice Climbers had a very easy time getting grabs on him doing nothing more than desynched ice blocks to force him into the air and then nair to grab combos, or simply waiting for him to land.

Third, how about instead of counting the grabs / wobbles that happened in the match, try counting the mistakes Jiano made that led to those. Ya know, the missed techs, poorly spaced aerials, etc.

 

[Mr.C]

thats just showing how pro's get grabbed and how many CHANCES there are to wobble.

I was just pointing out how many times wobbling could have been possible.

Chu took off a total of 7 stock (3/7 were wobbles) and no you cant get out before 40% if people could chain grabbing would never happen. You can also DI out of the dair chaingrab meaning Jiano doesnt know how.

and thats my point because he was poorly spacing his aerials and missing techs, he was being grabbed.....EVERYONE misses techs, and poorly spaces aerials meaning EVERYONE will be grabbed. Just showing how using "dont get grabbed" as an argument is ********.

 

[Overswarm]

I was just pointing out how many times wobbling could have been possible.

Chu took off a total of 7 stock (3/7 were wobbles) and no you cant get out before 40% if people could chain grabbing would never happen. You can also DI out of the dair chaingrab meaning Jiano doesnt know how.

and thats my point because he was poorly spacing his aerials and missing techs, he was being grabbed.....EVERYONE misses techs, and poorly spaces aerials meaning EVERYONE will be grabbed. Just showing how using "dont get grabbed" as an argument is ********.

No, it isn't.

If wobbling is so broken, riddle me this:

Top 32 players who used Ice cilmbers: Chu

Top 32 players who used Ice climbers and wobbled: Chu

Players at FC that wobbled in tournament play: at least 6 that I met, including Chu. All of them mained ICs. These didn't mess up when they started wobbling.

So now explain to me how Chu Dat gets 3rd, and no one else in the top 32 was a wobbling IC?

The proof is in the pudding. Wobbling helps IC's, but it does not make them invulnerable or the best in the game. There are no dominant IC's out there save a few, and only two of them Wobble.

I want to know why people want to ban it BEFORE it has shown itself needed to be banned. :\

 

[BigRick]

I want to know why people want to ban it BEFORE it has shown itself needed to be banned. :\

This is something that I've already posted on SRK.com:

IMO the main reason why people hate Wobbling is because that it is easy to perform manually. Truly if it was a complex button combination (ala Infinite waveshine) there wouldn't be any gripe against it.

 

[Mr.C]

Just because Ice Climber players are not the best in the nation doesnt mean wobbles isnt an imbalanced technique LOL wow I cant believe you just said that.

That would be like saying how come Fox players that counter Hyrule and laser spam are not top 5 in the usa??!?!!?!?!@? It doesnt change the fact that Fox on Hyrule is imba or Wobbling is imba.

and it HAS shown itself needed to be banned LOL

pros-
you die at any percent
you lose complete controll over your character
all it takes is a grab aka easy to pull off
it can be used to stall a match

cons-
you have to have nana
you have to grab

LOL

The proof is in the pudding. Wobbling helps IC's, but it does not make them invulnerable or the best in the game. There are no dominant IC's out there save a few, and only two of them Wobble.

It has nothing to do with making IC's invulnerable or dominant the fact of the matter is wobbling is a very imbalanced technique.......what happens to imbalances? they get nerfed or in smash's case they get banned.

 

[Overswarm]

Just because Ice Climber players are not the best in the nation doesnt mean wobbles isnt an imbalanced technique LOL wow I cant believe you just said that.

That would be like saying how come Fox players that counter Hyrule and laser spam are not top 5 in the usa??!?!!?!?!@? It doesnt change the fact that Fox on Hyrule is imba or Wobbling is imba.

and it HAS shown itself needed to be banned LOL

pros-
you die at any percent
you lose complete controll over your character
all it takes is a grab aka easy to pull off
it can be used to stall a match

cons-
you have to have nana
you have to grab

LOL



It has nothing to do with making IC's invulnerable or dominant the fact of the matter is wobbling is a very imbalanced technique.......what happens to imbalances? they get nerfed or in smash's case they get banned.

By the way, you can't break out of a grab if they are going to throw you. The throw starts immediately; hit stun from a headbutt takes a moment to connect, and you can break out during that time. I've done it repeatedly, and anyone else with two controllers and fast hands can do the same.


Why aren't Fox laser campers on Hyrule Temple in the top 5 in the USA? Because it is banned. Otherwise, they would be. I bet I could beat any pro player on Hyrule Temple unless they played Fox there, and even then I'd have a good chance if I got the first laser.

Wobbling? Not so much. Learning to wobbles != tournament victory.

Show me the results that have been so skewed. Where has the technique proven itself to be ban-worthy? So far the placement of players in tournaments with or without wobbling have been the same. Almost the exact same, even. Hell, Chu won a tournament recently that didn't have wobbling, yet lost FC:D that did. M2K was at both. :\

The proof is in the pudding sir. The single largest melee tournament ever created was held not too long ago, and lo and behold the only wobbling Ice Climber in the top 32 got 3rd. Not only that, but he is one of the most common top 3 placers in the history of smash; he is more consistent in top 3 placings than Ken, Azen, PC Chris, and Mew2king. Wobbling changed nothing except made a few people look foolish.


Your pro and con list shows me that you obviously don't play Ice Climbers, by the way

 

[Team Giza]

I posted this in another Wobbling topic.

wobbling is imbalanced.

It gets rid of your characters ability to move and can be USED to stall a match which is why peach bombing, freeze glitch's are banned.....

Look back at recent bannings of levels/techniques. Peach bombing was banned because it can stall meaning you can get in %'s ahead then stall the whole match ofcourse the counter to this is "dont let him get ahead" which is also ridiculous. Peach bombing was a very powerful and imbalanced technique which is why it was banned. Same with Onett/Hyrule because of Fox players. These are very one sided matchs when a Fox counter picks one of these levels especially Hyrule. Why? because Fox can simply laser, get percentage and run away for 7 minutes. Imbalanced which is why Hyrule was banned. It was unfair to other characters. Ofcourse the counter to Fox on Hyrule is "dont get lasered."

Hmm... funny thing right here. Cause rising pound and peach bombing are not banned if they are for actually recovery advantage and not used to stall a match. And you cannot compare it to the freeze glitch because that allows the player to attack at his leisure and not have to keep up any rhyme or execution.

The reason you ban the level instead of Fox is because you cannot say that Fox cannot laser or Fox cannot run. And it is absolutely impossible to catch up to Fox is the Fox has any idea of what he is doing. With wobbling there are tons of counters, which have been stated, that and you need Nana (how is ********) to be able to be next to you. Its actually tough stuff.

 

[Mr.C]

why are the only two arguments for people wanting wobble to stay are "why arent wobblers placing first?" or "dont get grabbed" quit acting like a 2nd grade kid with downs

hyrule was banned because of fox and how imbalanced he was one it
fox players who counter hyrule had a huge advantage it doesnt mean they will place 1st, 2nd , 3rd at tourneys it was banned because it was overpowered

wobbling is the same it is a very overpowerd imbalanced move
just because you dont see wobblers placing top 3 at tourneys doesnt mean it isnt imbalanced

same goes for fox on onett it was banned because it gave fox a huge adavantage vs characters that can be shined.....does that mean people who play onett with fox will automatically place well at tourneys? no.

your arguments are horrible

EDIT: if keeping nana close to popo is SOOOOOOO HARD then there would be zero competitive ice climbers

i didnt compare peach bombing to freeze glitching i compared it to how the wobble can be used to stall a match
it was an example.

 

[Speedsk8er]

EDIT: if keeping nana close to popo is SOOOOOOO HARD then there would be zero competitive ice climbers

You OBVIOUSLY don't play IC.

While I do believe that wobbling is pretty unfair and cheap, I don't believe that it gives IC a super advantage over anyone. Alot of elements have to come into play for it to actually work. Not to mention, Nana is so easily gimped that almost anyone could avoid being wobbled.

Sorry if this makes no sense. I'll kinda tipsy at the moment.

 

[Team Giza]

i didnt compare peach bombing to freeze glitching i compared it to how the wobble can be used to stall a match
it was an example.

Nor did I. I never compared peach bombing to freeze glitch I was comparing the differences of both to wobbling. In case you didnt know, peach's wall bombing is not banned as long as it is used for recovery purposes. Ice Climbers should be allowed to use wobbling in order to kill an opponent but not to stall a match. Wobbling differs from the freeze glitch because

The thing is wobbling can be countered. Fox running away on stages like hyrule cannot be countered unless you pick Fox. Personally I think that Peach's castle should be unbanned if the reasoning for it is Fox infinites since I'm sure it can be beaten there (I have beaten many a decent Fox on that level).

Okay so there are two good ice climbers... its a complex character to use so not a lot of people try to pick them up. Hmm, they have a infinite that is actually relative difficult to perform because you have to...
-Have them over 20-30% (depending on character)
-You need to grab
-Nana must be next to you
-Execution of the move must be maintained
The opponent knows its coming when they fight against an Ice Climber. They have a variety of options to use still in order to avoid getting grabbed and still be applying pressure and begin the process of separating Nana (an important step to destroying her). Because of all of this, it allows the ice climbers to still be beaten. I'm not saying you aren't gonna get grabbed during a match, but I am saying you can minimize it quite a bit so that you can get more kills off then the Ice Climbers can get off grabs.

 

[Mr.C]

Actually I do play icys and im 100% capable of wobbling....Ive actually beat Fastliketree with icy's wobbling 2 of his stock away. Although this was a friendly.

and I personally dont care if wobbles is banned or not.
Im just saying it should be.....but then again most tourneys are banning it anways lol

and quit saying wobbling is difficult because we all know it isnt. Ofcourse there are draw backs like nana must be with you and in position but any ice climber player with skill will be able to do that easily. similar to fox's inf wall shine.. you have to be near a wall and have the technical ability to keep it up long enough for it to count....except fox only has one level with a wall that isnt banned and thats pokemon stadium on a couple of parts where people know not to go around when your playing a fox.....icy's on the other hand can wobble anywhere on any level at anytime aslong as nana is with him.

but i personally think if wobbling is allowed I think yoshi's island, great bay, peachs castle, onett, hyrule shoul also be allowed

also fox on hyrule can be countered you either have to play fox or not get lasered.
Its the same with wobbling you are forced to pick marth/peach and have to not get grabbed.

 

[Overswarm]

Actually I do play icys and im 100% capable of wobbling....Ive actually beat Fastliketree with icy's wobbling 2 of his stock away. Although this was a friendly.

and I personally dont care if wobbles is banned or not.
Im just saying it should be.....but then again most tourneys are banning it anways lol

and quit saying wobbling is difficult because we all know it isnt. Ofcourse there are draw backs like nana must be with you and in position but any ice climber player with skill will be able to do that easily. similar to fox's inf wall shine.. you have to be near a wall and have the technical ability to keep it up long enough for it to count....except fox only has one level with a wall that isnt banned and thats pokemon stadium on a couple of parts where people know not to go around when your playing a fox.....icy's on the other hand can wobble anywhere on any level at anytime aslong as nana is with him.

but i personally think if wobbling is allowed I think yoshi's island, great bay, peachs castle, onett, hyrule shoul also be allowed

also fox on hyrule can be countered you either have to play fox or not get lasered.
Its the same with wobbling you are forced to pick marth/peach and have to not get grabbed.

I don't believe you play ICs. >_>

 

[Mr.C]

ask anyone in Texas lol

im known for playing and being good with every character.... except yoshi ofcourse =)
because yoshi sucks

 

[BigRick]

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/intermediates-guide/what-should-be-banned/

btw I also think that Yoshi Island, and Peach's Castle shouldn't be banned.

Hyrule Temple/Termina is another story though.

 

[Overswarm]

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/intermediates-guide/what-should-be-banned/

btw I also think that Yoshi Island, and Peach's Castle shouldn't be banned.

Hyrule Temple/Termina is another story though.

I'm against Peach's Castle's banning as well (for singles), and was originally for Yoshi's Island to be unbanned, but then I realized Falco can double shine for a KO half the cast at 0%, and most of the cast at 40%+, and Fox can u-throw u-air ftw with one "chillin" combo.

Too much emphasis on aerial destruction, as it were.

 

[Mr.C]

i know right moves that are capable of di'ing and people actually having a chance to survive are way too good

but wobbling is fair... =) LOL

 

[Overswarm]

I'm not sure what you mean by "only defense"...

You are saying our only defense is:

1. It hasn't affected tournament placings (it hasn't)

2. It is not as easy to pull off as people say it is (it isn't)



How is that a bad defense? Saying "It's harder than you are making it sound, and regardless, the tournament placings haven't changed".

Your reasoning for banning:

"It is too easy to do"

"It is broken/imbalanced/unfair/etc."


So here is where the challenge on your part lies. We won't agree on whether it is really easy to do or not; it is not as simple as just pressing the win button, but it also is not as complex and Fox's reverse drillshine infinite against Peach. There's no conclusion, how difficult it is is based solely on opinion.

So all we have left is

"It is broken/imbalanced/unfair/etc."

To which I, and many others, reply "prove it". I have yet to see ONE crazy out of the blue tournament with any big names where some random wobbling kid has won. I haven't even seen tournaments where a known, good player has won via wobbling, with the exception of a tournament with Wobbles himself. Surprise surprise, the same people he beat in that tournament with wobbling unbanned he beat in another tournament with it banned.

So where is your evidence that it should be banned?

Why didn't you win FC:D? Why didn't Chu?

Why aren't Ice Climbers players just raking in the cash and buying brand new parkas?

Why should it be banned other than people saying "I don't like it"?