Wobbling: the breakdown

[the_judge]

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/intermediates-guide/what-should-be-banned/

btw I also think that Yoshi Island, and Peach's Castle shouldn't be banned.

Hyrule Temple/Termina is another story though.

I just read that whole page, and It's 100% true.

Yeah, WTF is wrong with YI64 and Peach's Castle?
Why are they banned?

Peach's castle could be banned due to Fox infinite.

 

[Overswarm]

I just read that whole page, and It's 100% true.

Yeah, WTF is wrong with YI64 and Peach's Castle?
Why are they banned?

Peach's castle could be banned due to Fox infinite.

If one more person uses Fox's infinite anything as a reason to ban, I'm going to personally buy a plane ticket and slap them.

There is one, and only one, shine combo that Fox has that cannot be DI'd out of, and that is the reverse drillshine infinite.

Drillkick, shine, wavedash, drill kick and land behind them, shine, wavedash, drill kick and land behind them, etc., etc., etc.

That has never happened for more than one revolution in tournament play that I know of, and hasn't happened much more against CPU opponents.


All other infinites can be smash DI'd out of.

When fox has you up against the wall, rotate your control stick down to left or down to right, depending on your direction. You will slide past him, he will shine you again, and you will be on the opposite side.

Not only that, but if you just hold down L and the C-stick towards Fox, the moment you have a frame open, you will auto-roll.

Fox's "infinites" don't work 90% of the time, and almost always do less damage than a combo stemming from one of Falco's shines.

 

[BigRick]

Hmm I'll post an interesting thing that I've found in AZ's article about FCD.

http://www.mlgpro.com/?q=node/145899&query=node/145899&pagenumber=1

Mew2King was then forced to fight ChuDat in the Losers Finals. Similar to last tournament, ChuDat had made a gentleman’s agreement with Mew2King, in exchange for not wobbling, Mew2King agreed that they would only play on what essentially amounted to tournament-neutral stages.

 

[Mr.C]

Because chudat isnt a ***. lols.

btw overswarm ive done 3-4 revolutions of dair shine dair's to peach players in texas several times.

 

[BigRick]

Because chudat isnt a ***. lols.

You don't seem to understand the point of this agreement... they both decide to not act like ***es

Chudat agrees to not wobble.
While M2K agrees to not counterpick him with one of the many anti-IC stages out there.

Anyways, Wobbling is indeed an imbalanced move (the most powerful one in SSBM)... but there is still a game to be played while the move is still around. Heck, it doesn't change the IC matchup at all: Wobbling or not, you play to separate the ICs, and to not get grabbed!

Sure you will get grabbed! It's impossible to completely avoid grabs if you two are of equal skill... However if you're better than the IC, you will simply **** his Nana, then if you get grabbed he won't be able to Wobble. I hope you've played the matchup enough to understand this, right?

This is a huge difference with a Fox that is laser spamming on Hyrule... just like you said ''either you pick Fox or you don't get lasered''.

- Here, you're admitting yourself that the game would be limited to one character (Fox) cause the only character that can run fast like him doesn't have a projectile.
- it would be possible ''to not get lasered''... however, since Fox's lasers is a long range attack, you will basically have to run away with a fast character and play hide and seek in that huge *** level... which destroys the point of the game (fighting your opponent)
- also, it would be impossible to catch a Fox that has a lead if he starts to run away (which would be a stalling tactic... ala Peach Bomber, Rising Pound)

To counter Wobbling ICs you said stuff like ''pick Marth/Peach and don't get grabbed''

- Here you still have a character variety (the game doesn't become IC vs IC). You can use Fox, Marth, Peach, Samus, Falcon and others to beat the ICs.
- When you say ''don't get grabbed'' it isn't for a whole matchup. If ICs are separated and you get grabbed, you will not lose a stock. If Popo is alone and you get grabbed, you will not lose a stock. If you get grabbed at 0% you do not lose a stock. If you're good enough to keep em separated than you really have nothing to worry about.
- Also it is much easier ''to not get grabbed'' instead of ''not getting lasered'' because a grab is a very short range attack. Heck, if grabbing is the only thing that your opponent tries to do, than you can beat him anytime with an attack that has more range, like a projectile. ZOMG THERE IS STILL A FIGHTING GAME IN THURR!!!
- And if the IC is not that good you can counterpick with a bad IC stage. He will usually get ***** or he will switch chars.

Now I hope that you will not compare Wobbling to Fox on Hyrule anymore, cause like you see here it's like two completely different things.

 

[Overswarm]

Because chudat isnt a ***. lols.

btw overswarm ive done 3-4 revolutions of dair shine dair's to peach players in texas several times.

dair shine is not an infinite. A peach holding left or right on the c-stick will get out of that immediately.

The infinite is the reverse drill shine, where you land behind them and repeat.

 

[Mr.C]

no peachs cannot get out of a dair shine if you perfect wavedash from it lols
thats why you can repeat shines across the stage.

chudat loses the most powerful technique in the game.
while m2k doesnt pick mutecity, brinstar, pokefloats...which I have never seen him pick anyways lols

 

[Overswarm]

no peachs cannot get out of a dair shine if you perfect wavedash from it lols
thats why you can repeat shines across the stage.

chudat loses the most powerful technique in the game.
while m2k doesnt pick mutecity, brinstar, pokefloats...which I have never seen him pick anyways lols

Have someone waveshine you.

The moment they hit you with the shine, rotate the control stick from down to left if they are facing you left. You will move out of shine range. Rotate the control stick from down to right and at the second or third shine you will appear behind the Fox, forcing them to turn around.

The drill kick is even easier to DI out of. Have someone stand on a platform above you, and jump and do Fox's drill kick. Have the Peach hit right or left on the control stick the moment they get hit and they will DI out of most of the d-air's hits.

The reason the reverse drillshine is an infinite is that you can't DI out of the range of the shorthopped dair no matter how well you DI the shine, and you cannot DI out of the dair because they are doing the dair inside you and landing behind you. They merely have the direction are DIng their drill kick to get the shine in then, as they can go left or right easily.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Actually I do play icys and im 100% capable of wobbling....Ive actually beat Fastliketree with icy's wobbling 2 of his stock away. Although this was a friendly.

and I personally dont care if wobbles is banned or not.
Im just saying it should be.....but then again most tourneys are banning it anways lol

and quit saying wobbling is difficult because we all know it isnt. Ofcourse there are draw backs like nana must be with you and in position but any ice climber player with skill will be able to do that easily. similar to fox's inf wall shine.. you have to be near a wall and have the technical ability to keep it up long enough for it to count....except fox only has one level with a wall that isnt banned and thats pokemon stadium on a couple of parts where people know not to go around when your playing a fox.....icy's on the other hand can wobble anywhere on any level at anytime aslong as nana is with him.

but i personally think if wobbling is allowed I think yoshi's island, great bay, peachs castle, onett, hyrule shoul also be allowed

also fox on hyrule can be countered you either have to play fox or not get lasered.
Its the same with wobbling you are forced to pick marth/peach and have to not get grabbed.

I actually heard you were garbage at wobbling.

 

[Overswarm]

I actually heard you were garbage at wobbling.

He just got SERVED!

 

[Eaode]

If Wobbling is so imbalanced, then surely you should be able to win every tournament you go to. So win a bunch of tournaments. By then you should have enough money to travel to major tournaments. Go there and beat the Nation's top players by wobbling. In the words of Sirlin, "Prove it,"

 

[Mr.C]

I actually heard you were garbage at wobbling.

no you have not lols

If Wobbling is so imbalanced, then surely you should be able to win every tournament you go to. So win a bunch of tournaments. By then you should have enough money to travel to major tournaments. Go there and beat the Nation's top players by wobbling. In the words of Sirlin, "Prove it,"

stalling with wall bombing and fox on hyrule were so imbalanced but that doesnt mean the people using them were winning tournaments.

how do tournament placings have anything to do with a imbalanced technique?

when you have not taken into consideration that some people are naturally better at this game. ie Ken, M2k etc

 

[Overswarm]

how do tournament placings have anything to do with a imbalanced technique?

Think long and hard about this one.

Do you really think that if someone could just pick Ice Climbers, get one grab, and hit a rhythmically a few dozen times in a day to win hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars they wouldn't do it?

If you say "that doesn't count, some people like Ken, M2K, PC Chris, etc., are just better at the game", you've already proven yourself wrong. If THEY can get around it, WE can get around it. We just don't know how yet, or haven't put the time and concentration into learning how to get around it.


One way or another, you've proven yourself wrong.

 

[dj asakura]

not to make silly, one worded, dumb posts but...


owned

 

[BigRick]

stalling with wall bombing and fox on hyrule were so imbalanced but that doesnt mean the people using them were winning tournaments.

lol actually the first SSBM tournaments were won by that tactic.

Matches between two lasering Foxes could last an hour