Will we have Smash Ball activated as an item in the pro/competitive scene?

[commonyoshi]

After they're hit into the air it will merely be even easier for them avoid it, since they're probably above its firing area anyway (and if you try to fire from a raised platform they can easily fast-fall beneath it).

Are you kidding me? You can hit people in horizontal trajectories. >_< It's no different from a hit-to-Charge Shot combo. (if there is an efficient one; I dont use Samus)

And considering you can't use other special attacks while holding a smash ball charge and foes that attack you can force the ball back out of you, trying to fight opponents while holding the charge isn't the greatest idea ever either, which will make it difficult to keep it long enough to edge guard with it.

What's your point on this? I understand the sentences. I dont see how they tie in.

Air dodging isn't going to be nearly enough to avoid Super Sonic. Hes even faster in that form in case you didn't notice. Someone whos truly proficient with a form that fast and powerful is going to be a frightening thing indeed.

Zevox

Ok, well those of us who have moderately decent reflexes will just air dodge. Sucks for you. :/

 

[-Knux-]

Maybe you can unlock Zamus as her own character after activating Samus's final smash? That would make everything fair.

Anyone have ANY clue what Ike's Final Smash might be? Pardon the off-topicness...

 

[BentoBox]

Yes take out smash balls and strip the game of almost everything, just like in SSBM tournies.


I was opposed to how the tournaments in Melee to so much out of the game, so of curse i would be displeases if smash balls were taken out in Brawl tournies.

I mean come on, allot of thought and hard work was put in to final smashes, why dismiss all of that?

Luck can always be countered by a certain amount of skill, espcially in this case were smash balls can be knocked out of a opponent. Plus the smash ball can't be instantly attained since it has to be broken first.

Besides, final smashed can be dodged anyway, and if you manage to dodge them, it leaves your enemy open for a few moments after the attack.

i don't see why this should be taken out. it's a nice piece of content in Brawl and can be worked to the advantage of the person doing the final smash of the person dodging , then countering.

Smashballs can be knocked out of opponents, sure. But that's if they haven't used it the moment they got that aura. Samus who's waiting for the right moment to unleash his beam might be more likely to get her SB stolen from her than say, Sonic who WILL be flying around the moment he destroys the SB. And not all SB's leave openings, once again, like Samus'. Take Peach's FS for example.

The items appear randomly? I was under the impression that items have set spawn points around the stage, that are selected at random. If you take the time to memorize the random spawning points you give you self more of an advantage than if you didn't.

Also why would you hated if tiers could be effected by this? I mean aren't some of the characters judged/placed on the tier list because of their wavedashing? Final Smash could help balance the tiers, you just have to test it first. There is not point in banning something outright without testing it.

-Knight

Characters aren't judged by their wavedashing but rather the possibilities that advanced techs opened up to each. There is no waveshining without WDing. Luigi without WDing would be a terrible character. Wavedashing is a technique that actually takes time to master and apply in appropriate situations, thus why you cannot compare that with Smashballs where by the hit of a button, you unleash a game-breaking move practically assuring you a K.O.

@common: Airdodging does make you vulnerable. You've seen Sonic's FS used once by a noob, don't assume that a good Sonic player will be doing nothing but zooming from one side of the screen to the other.

 

[KirbySSB]

it should be actaully, since it involes attacking this item. But only if random boxes and capsules removed.

seconded. I like the idea of the smash balls actually

 

[Kirby knight]

Maybe you can unlock Zamus as her own character after activating Samus's final smash? That would make everything fair.

Anyone have ANY clue what Ike's Final Smash might be? Pardon the off-topicness...

Well I don't know what it could be, perhaps it was shown in one of the vids? Though my idea for his Final Smash would be smilar to his Aether technique. All of his attacks would get a boost in over all damage and each time he attacks a portion of his heatlth would be healed, this would be signified by his sword having a blue glow around it.

-Knight

 

[I_R_Hungry]

it's more gamechanging than most items and we don't allow them so no...

 

[Zevox]

What's your point on this? I understand the sentences. I dont see how they tie in.

That if you don't use the final smash quickly, its likely it will either end up as a handicap (no special attacks usable) or get beaten out of you and stolen by your foe (unless you can completely prevent your foe from attacking you with combos, which isn't exactly Samus' specialty).

Ok, well those of us who have moderately decent reflexes will just air dodge. Sucks for you. :/

Please, I'm well aware of how air dodging works, and more than proficient with it myself. I'm also well aware that its impossible to do it every second of a fight. You might air dodge the first of Super Sonic's charges, but if he just immediately turns about and smacks into you before you have the time to do another, that doesn't really matter, does it? Or if he stalls his charge because he predicts your dodge then strikes just after you do it. And then it'd be especially painful if he then chases you and hits you again while you're still tumbling through the air, which with the speed he displays seem perfectly possible.

Zevox

 

[Igneous42]

if they can even be turned off....Probably can but maybe not. It may be viewed as a kind of move rather than an item. If so it might not be under the item switch.

 

[Kirby knight]

Characters aren't judged by their wavedashing but rather the possibilities that advanced techs opened up to each. There is no waveshining without WDing. Luigi without WDing would be a terrible character. Wavedashing is a technique that actually takes time to master and apply in appropriate situations, thus why you cannot compare that with Smashballs where by the hit of a button, you unleash a game-breaking move practically assuring you a K.O.

Ok, that is why I asked if they were judged on wavedashing or not. So your telling me for an absolute fact that those to get the smash orbs, their final smashes can not be avoided what so ever? Let alone you jumping to a bit a conclusion when you haven't even tested them. That is the point I'm trying to get across. I mean if testing something is now wrong....

-Knight

 

[Crispy4001]

I find this thought to be rediculous the smash ball is a massive part of the game they allow further stratagy in the match and if you ko someone before they use their final smash they lose it completely in addition it doesnt spawn at spawn points it comes in from a random part of the screen and floats around until someone grabs it or it leaves.

But does someone who bashes a randomly spawning and bouncing ball for a few seconds deserve access to a move that can KO at 60%? That grants invulnerability for 10 seconds? That gives back health while putting the opponent asleep? etc

Whatever (pseudo-)skill it takes to get to it first and use it is negated by the imbalance that follows.




And as for the arguement earlier that because the developers coded it into the game it should be included in tournaments... ask yourself: Heart Containers are in the game, should they be included in tournaments?

Short answer: no.

 

[-Knux-]

Well I don't know what it could be, perhaps it was shown in one of the vids? Though my idea for his Final Smash would be smilar to his Aether technique. All of his attacks would get a boost in over all damage and each time he attacks a portion of his heatlth would be healed, this would be signified by his sword having a blue glow around it.

-Knight

Sadly, no it hasn't been shown in any videos yet. (At least the ones I've watched he hasn't.)

That would be cool. It wouldn't be overly powerful, but it could help heal himself while dealing a bit more damage to the opponent. I haven't really played FEoR so I wouldn't know a move to tie in with his character, otherwise I would have a good suggestion. xP

I assume in the video where Ike, Peach, and two others fight at Pokemon Stadium 2 that his side special move is when he halts very shortly and then quicly dashes to the right and swipes. This could be used as a horizontal recovery move.

 

[commonyoshi]

That if you don't use the final smash quickly, its likely it will either end up as a handicap (no special attacks usable) or get beaten out of you (unless you can completely prevent your foe from attacking you with combos, which isn't exactly Samus' specialty).

Again, I understood the sentences just fine. I, however, dont see how it fits with the discussion we were having regarding some characters' final smashes being unbalanced when compared to others.

Please, I'm well aware of how air dodging works. I'm also well aware that its impossible to do it every second of a fight. You might air dodge the first of Super Sonic's charges, but if he just immediately turns about and smacks into you before you have the time to do another, that doesn't really matter, does it? Or if he stalls his charge because he predicts your dodge then strikes just after you do it. And then it'd be especially painful if he then chases you and hits you again while you're still tumbling through the air, which with the speed he displays seem perfectly possible.

"Ok, well those of us who have moderately decent reflexes will just air dodge. Sucks for you. :/"

You either have bad reflexes or you're underestimating air dodging. >_>
Or link a vid which shows Saiyan Sonic in all his glory. Maybe it's been me who's missed something.

 

[BentoBox]

Ok, that is why I asked if they were judged on wavedashing or not. So your telling me for an absolute fact that those to get the smash orbs, their final smashes can not be avoided what so ever? Let alone you jumping to a bit a conclusion when you haven't even tested them. That is the point I'm trying to get across. I mean if testing something is now wrong....

-Knight

Some can be avoided (mario, samus, sonic with really good reflexes), some can not (peach). I don't see how gambreaking moves can help balance the game, unless you're assuming that the worst characters will inevitably get the best FSes.

 

[GreenKirby]

So far I've only seen one Smash Ball per match. That may depend on how long your matches are.

Not true. One of the videoes (Isle Defino I think) shown Pit grabbing two of them.

 

[Makkers]

I personally don't see Final Smashes to be entirely game breaking, telling you the truth. You see, in order to actually use a Final Smash, the Smash Ball, first off, needs to spawn. Once it does, you'll have to divert attention away from beating your opponent to hit a hard to reach ball that may set you up for an early death due to your position. Also remember that the Smash Ball can be beaten out of you when you get it. If an opponent if good enough, he'll just render the Final Smash chase meaningless as he combos you straight to hell.

On top of that that, even if you do get the Smash Ball powerup, you need to take into account of two major factors: Positioning and timing. Imagine, if you will, that you are playing on the Castle Siege level. Due to the constant changes to the level, using something like Peach's FS or Fox's Tank becomes a liability since you're either going to lose out on those important healing items or, due to your size, you'll die a quick death due to lack of mobility. While I know every stage is different, there are plenty of tactical positions that can leave certain FSs useless. This alone would make the execution and success of FS more rewarding since you are overcoming the shortcomings of said FS and connecting in situations that would normally be difficult.

For those who believe Final Smashes are broken themselves, not true. Super Sonic is way too loose for his own good. He can literally kill himself trying to kill an opponent. Samus requires the player to remain stationary for a slow blast that can be dodged. Pit's Goddess army is easy to dodge from the videos I saw, with only one actually hitting the opponent. Metaknight's FS is really just Raging Demon, requiring the attack to be close and still to the opponent. I can go on but this will do just fine. I personally see this no more broken than other fighting game Supers, which are really meant to reward the user to finish a match quickly despite the opening he is subjected to due to the utilization of the attack.

Anyways, this is my two cents on the issue and I think it's not bad for a first post. It's definitely up to the community as a whole but I see no harm in allowing FSs in tournament play, personally.

 

[-Knux-]

Not true. One of the videoes (Isle Defino I think) shown Pit grabbing two of them.

Yep. He grabbed one and used it on Yoshi. Only 10 seconds after the Final Smash was complete another smash ball appeared.

 

[GreenKirby]

@common: Airdodging does make you vulnerable. You've seen Sonic's FS used once by a noob, don't assume that a good Sonic player will be doing nothing but zooming from one side of the screen to the other.

We also can't assume Super Sonic's prey (in that case, Link) was a good player as well. He sucked just as much as the Sonic player.

 

[BentoBox]

Again, I understood the sentences just fine. I, however, dont see how it fits with the discussion we were having regarding some characters' final smashes being unbalanced when compared to others.



"Ok, well those of us who have moderately decent reflexes will just air dodge. Sucks for you. :/"

You either have bad reflexes or you're underestimating air dodging. >_>
Or link a vid which shows Saiyan Sonic in all his glory. Maybe it's been me who's missed something.

You keep assuming that Sonic's charges will only come to you periodically as if it made him transform into MasterHand. What if he actually stalls next to you while you render yourself vulnerable after ADing?

@Green: And it would be foolish to state that it wasn't an uphill battle for Link the moment Sonic picked up that ball. I wasn't under the impression that Link could touch Sonic without getting blasted off the screen.

 

[joshuagor44]

If you left it in, then there'd still be some fun in the game. It's all about the 1v1, Fox/Falco, Final Destination, no items. You have to suck all the fun out of the game to be a pro.

 

[GhostAnime]

after seeing Peach's final smash, I think it should definitely be banned

 

[BentoBox]

If you left it in, then there'd still be some fun in the game. It's all about the 1v1, Fox/Falco, Final Destination, no items. You have to suck all the fun out of the game to be a pro.

Who forced you to be competitive again?

 

[GhostAnime]

why do people even say Fox/Falco in those "suck the fun out of the game" comments? what do characters have to do with sucking the fun out of it? you're free to choose any character in a competitive match, aren't you.. ?

 

[GreenKirby]

You keep assuming that Sonic's charges will only come to you periodically as if it made him transform into MasterHand. What if he actually stalls next to you while you render yourself vulnerable after ADing?

@Green: And it would be foolish to state that it wasn't an uphill battle for Link the moment Sonic picked up that ball. I wasn't under the impression that Link could touch Sonic without getting blasted off the screen.

Oh, I know that it's an uphill battle for Link. Doesn't mean the battle went straight up at a 90 degree angel

 

[KirbySSB]

If you left it in, then there'd still be some fun in the game. It's all about the 1v1, Fox/Falco, Final Destination, no items. You have to suck all the fun out of the game to be a pro.

gb24chan please k thx

 

[Crispy4001]

I personally don't see Final Smashes to be entirely game breaking, telling you the truth. You see, in order to actually use a Final Smash, the Smash Ball, first off, needs to spawn. Once it does, you'll have to divert attention away from beating your opponent to hit a hard to reach ball that may set you up for an early death due to your position. Also remember that the Smash Ball can be beaten out of you when you get it. If an opponent if good enough, he'll just render the Final Smash chase meaningless as he combos you straight to hell.

On top of that that, even if you do get the Smash Ball powerup, you need to take into account of two major factors: Positioning and timing. Imagine, if you will, that you are playing on the Castle Siege level. Due to the constant changes to the level, using something like Peach's FS or Fox's Tank becomes a liability since you're either going to lose out on those important healing items or, due to your size, you'll die a quick death due to lack of mobility. While I know every stage is different, there are plenty of tactical positions that can leave certain FSs useless. This alone would make the execution and success of FS more rewarding since you are overcoming the shortcomings of said FS and connecting in situations that would normally be difficult.

For those who believe Final Smashes are broken themselves, not true. Super Sonic is way too loose for his own good. He can literally kill himself trying to kill an opponent. Samus requires the player to remain stationary for a slow blast that can be dodged. Pit's Goddess army is easy to dodge from the videos I saw, with only one actually hitting the opponent. Metaknight's FS is really just Raging Demon, requiring the attack to be close and still to the opponent. I can go on but this will do just fine. I personally see this no more broken than other fighting game Supers, which are really meant to reward the user to finish a match quickly despite the opening he is subjected to due to the utilization of the attack.

Anyways, this is my two cents on the issue and I think it's not bad for a first post. It's definitely up to the community as a whole but I see no harm in allowing FSs in tournament play, personally.

This is the same sort of arguement that gets thrown around about items:

(paraphrasing)

'You have to decide between your opponent and taking a risk and going for it' - It's not a risk at all if it spawns far enough away from your opponent, or if they're trying to get back on the ledge. Easy access happens all the time. You CANNOT discount that.


'But they take skill to use and be beaten out of you' - Making the win button slightly harder to access doesn't make it any less of a win button. Why can't something that takes skill to use also be balanced in its execution?

'But the positioning and timing is so hard to pull off' - Knowing when and how to hit B at the right time ... I'm sure that tournament players will have to practice long and hard to get a mastery of that. /sarcasm


'The Final Smash is hard enough on it's own to pull off after you've used it for some characters' - Some characters isn't every character. Also, do you really think someone who's coming to a tournament wouldn't already know how to handle Super Sonic well?

'Final Smashes can be dodged' - Yet 4/5 cases you can't hit your opponent when they pull it off. Have fun trying to counter a Final Smash once the trigger's pulled.

 

[AKC12]

And considering you can't use other special attacks while holding a smash ball charge
Zevox

That's not true. You cannot use your neutral B special, but you can use your other special moves. A video proves that, let me find it...

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8I_kzfCauo
At :30-:37, Yoshi grabs the smash ball, but suicides with its own Rolling Egg afterwards.

 

[mkmelee]

Think about this. Samus vs. Fox. Both have 1 stock, though Samus is at 110% while fox is only at 17%. Samus has a charged blast ready, but is getting combo'd with drill kicks, jabs, grabs and other aerials. It seems hopeless for Samus but then she gets in an u-tilt, which sends Fox a short distance off the stage. He's recovering when WHOOM, in comes a Smash Ball! Samus charged blasts it, the screen goes dark and BAM!

So sorry Mew2King but you just got owned; yes it was flukey, and yes it was a gay FS.

 

[commonyoshi]

You keep assuming that Sonic's charges will only come to you periodically as if it made him transform into MasterHand. What if he actually stalls next to you while you render yourself vulnerable after ADing?

That really depends how quickly Sonic can slow down to a stop or turn.
And I think you're just imagining the otehr player just standing around, waiting for Sonic to get him. No, he'll be doing his own running around and mindgaming as well.

If you left it in, then there'd still be some fun in the game. It's all about the 1v1, Fox/Falco, Final Destination, no items. You have to suck all the fun out of the game to be a pro.

If you're going to belittle people, at least do it with some originality. You know what else isn't fun? Losing thousands of dollars just because your opponent got lucky with a couple of heart containers and hammers. Also, maybe some people prefer playing without items. Did you ever think of that? Not everyone gets the drug rush you do off KOing someone with a warp star.

 

[Zevox]

Again, I understood the sentences just fine. I, however, dont see how it fits with the discussion we were having regarding some characters' final smashes being unbalanced when compared to others.

The point was that your suggestions for how to use Samus' Zero Laser are impractical and don't necessarily help overcome its disadvantages.

"Ok, well those of us who have moderately decent reflexes will just air dodge. Sucks for you. :/"

You either have bad reflexes or you're underestimating air dodging. >_>
Or link a vid which shows Saiyan Sonic in all his glory. Maybe it's been me who's missed something.

My reflexes are perfectly fine - as I said, I'm more than proficient with air dodging - and I know full well what air dodging is capable of. The point is that its not perfect, and can't be done all the time, and Super Sonic's attacks aren't going to be coming slowly one at a time. Mere dodging isn't going to allow you to avoid him indefinitely any more than it would for any other attacks.

As for Super Sonic, the videos showing him are here and here. Bear in mind hes under the control of a level 3 computer and an apparently unskilled player who had never used him before in them - its plain hes not nearly being used to his full potential, and can turn and maneuver much more precisely when he is than they were doing.

Zevox

 

[Xengri]

Smashballs can be knocked out of opponents, sure. But that's if they haven't used it the moment they got that aura. Samus who's waiting for the right moment to unleash his beam might be more likely to get her SB stolen from her than say, Sonic who WILL be flying around the moment he destroys the SB. And not all SB's leave openings, once again, like Samus'. Take Peach's FS for example.

Alright, a opponent might use the FS right when they get it ( which would be part of your fault for letting them get the ball-Skill). so then what stops you from dodging it? you're right not all FS are straight beam attacks, like sonics or Peach's, but all of them can be avoided ( as far as I've seen there isn't a FS that nukes the whole stage so...). Take Sonic's for example, it does look like a pretty hard attack to dodge. Air dodging wouldn't save you from Sonic's attacks, but rolling looks like it would easily do the trick to me (requires skill).
Peach's is a bit of a problem. If she does get the smash ball ( which again would be your fault) at lest her FS takes sometime to activate. It is a AOE so you could just run out of the affect area, as for her healing well, shouldn't have let her get that ball, and **** happens, just make sure the next ball is yours and use it well (<--- skill) .

I can't really defend FS's just like no one can really speak against them, since we know very little so far. All i know is that they are attacks that are unique to each play and must be fought over to obtain and use properly.

~*~​

I don't care ether way, the tournament scene makes me sick anyway. Since when did adaptation become thrown out of the requirements for a good player? Just because something unexpected happens and you're suddenly put to a disadvantage, zOmg SuXZ Tht BiZ LUcK!!!!!1! one!.

It's sad how said "good players" don't know the meaning of flexibility/adaptation. Thats why "Certain stages" and "all items" are banned and considered "noob". The greatest skill is the skill of conformity, knowing how to deal with what is thrown at you whether it be advantage or disadvantage.

I'm sure many of the "good players" disagree with me and will flame me or whatever but i don't care, if tournaments become as bland and boring as they were in Melee, I'll just stop going to them this time around, besides i have the internet now anyway.

~*~​

Closing statement- I believe we should have FS in the competitive scene because it is a unique feature in the game and focuses on the players ability to adapt and conform, which last time i checked that was apart of being skilled.

 

[Zevox]

That's not true. You cannot use your neutral B special, but you can use your other special moves. A video proves that, let me find it...

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8I_kzfCauo
At :30-:37, Yoshi grabs the smash ball, but suicides with its own Rolling Egg afterwards.

Hm, interesting. Guess that might not be that much of a disadvantage after all.

Zevox

 

[GhostAnime]

I'd rather adapt to the players themselves rather than an FS being thrown at me while I take my time to recover.

there's adapting fairly, and adapting nearly impossible situations. don't even try to put luck in a skill based tournament. seriously.

 

[Xengri]

I'd rather adapt to the players themselves rather than an FS being thrown at me while I take my time to recover.

there's adapting fairly, and adapting nearly impossible situations. don't even try to put luck in a skill based tournament. seriously.

Oh, I know that. Most people rather have things turned off then having to learn to deal with it. That use to bother me in Melee since tournaments were the major concentration of Smash players.

But now with WiFi I can find people online to play with, and from time to time find a fight with the options turned on .
I can't say how Brawl tournaments will turn out, but if they turn into the some thing as Melee tournaments I'll go to some once in a while, but be on WiFi most of the time.

 

[Crispy4001]

Closing statement- I believe we should have FS in the competitive scene because it is a unique feature in the game and focuses on the players ability to adapt and conform, which last time i checked that was apart of being skilled.

Players should be able to adapt and conform to each other's mind games, characters and playstyles, not to a randomly spawning win-button pick up.

New skill-based features and techniques in Brawl should be evaluated in terms of what they add to the balance, and if using them opens up non-player-influenced spontaneity scenarios that could unfairly cost a player a match.


Final Smashes fail on both accounts, at least from what we've seen of them. I don't even think it's a stretch to say that items would be a better alternative use in tournaments (which they won't be).

 

[Makkers]

'You have to decide between your opponent or taking a risk and going for it' - It's not a risk at all if it spawns far enough away from your opponent, or if they're trying to get back on the ledge. Easy access happens all the time. You CANNOT discount that.

It is a risk and not easy access if you are launching yourself in the air to hit a constantly moving ball that also moves due to you hitting it. Most kills in Smash happens when an opponent is midair. Why give the opponent that free ticket in an situation where you can't afford it?

'But they take skill to use and be beaten out of you' - Making the win button slightly harder to access doesn't make it any less of a win button. Why can't something that takes skill to use also be balanced in it's execution?

What makes Super moves in other fighting games any less of a "Win Button"? Controller motions? That becomes less of an issue and can be pulled off with ease once you get used to them and deals a ton of damage when performed right. I guess all Super Moves are skill-less, eh?

Much like Super Moves in other fighting games, FSs require all the right signs before pulling them off, otherwise it's a wasted light show.

'But the positioning and timing is so hard to pull off' - Hitting B at the right time ... I'm sure that tournament players will have to practice long and hard to get a mastery of that. /sarcasm

Don't be condescending to me, buddy. I'm willing to discuss this issue but try less talking down to people. This is not about feeding anybody's ego, especially yours.

Anyways, pulling off a Super Blast with Samus requires just as much practice and timing as pulling off a Super in any other fighting game, especially considering the speed in which the blast moves (Large cover but slow as hell). Same goes with executing the various FSs.

'The Final Smash is hard enough on it's own to pull off after you've used it for some characters' - Some characters isn't every character. Also, do you really think someone who's coming to a tournament wouldn't already know how to handle Super Sonic well?

Not sure where you're going here.

'Final Smashes can be dodged' - Yet 4/5 cases you can't hit your opponent when they pull it off. Have fun trying to counter a Final Smash once the trigger's pulled.

Depends on the character. All the FSs seem to have a disadvantage to them and just require the proper tweaks to keep them from being entirely game breaking. They may seem entirely broken when newbies are playing the game but we really can't gauge their power until we've seen them in action ala tournament play, which will be next week.

However, from what I'm seeing, there are downsides and counters to the FSs shown but I can't pass judgment just yet, much like how you can't pass judgment either.

Anyways, I say give it a try for one or two tournaments, see how it goes then decide from there. I feel that FSs do have character flaws from what was shown and are really not that different from any super in any fighting game. Then again, it's easy for me to say that when I haven't played the game. Hell, it's easy for anybody to say anything when they haven't play the game. I can say that FSs give out candy and gum drops when you use them, for crying out loud.

 

[$ick]

I'm hoping it won't be. ^_^

 

[commonyoshi]

As for Super Sonic, the videos showing him are here and here. Bear in mind hes under the control of a level 3 computer and an apparently unskilled player who had never used him before in them - its plain hes not nearly being used to his full potential, and can turn and maneuver much more precisely when he is than they were doing.

Ok, you've said this about three times already about "air dodging all the time" or something like that, and I think that's where we disagree. You dont need to air dodge "all the time". Sonic isn't THAT fast.

And considering, as you said, we dont know what Sonic is really capable of since we've only seen him in the hands of noobs, there's no way to accurately determine who is right.

I don't care ether way, the tournament scene makes me sick anyway. Since when did adaptation become thrown out of the requirements for a good player? Just because something unexpected happens and you're suddenly put to a disadvantage, zOmg SuXZ Tht BiZ LUcK!!!!!1! one!.

Baka. Anyone with a basic knowledge of Smash wouldbe able to counter your "arguements".
Your first sentence, no content. "it makes me sick. Wah wah!"
Second sentence, adaptation is everything in this game. Nice use of vague wording there. That's all it is.
I dont think you know what the point of a tournament is. A tournament is supposed to be a gathering of players who play the same game, have fun, and determine who is the best. So yes, having someone at a disadvantage would undermine the whole part about deciding the best, making it suck.

What's really irksome about your post is the way you seem so upidy about having the tides turned against you. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about because no one likes being at a disadvantage. It is part of being human. In fact, I bet you're only in favor of items because you're terrible at the game and need an excuse to hate the people better than you. That's also part of human nature.

It's sad how said "good players" don't know the meaning of flexibility/adaptation. Thats why "Certain stages" and "all items" are banned and considered "noob". The greatest skill is the skill of conformity, knowing how to deal with what is thrown at you whether it be advantage or disadvantage.

Jibberish. You've obviously never played for high stakes (like five bucks. ) or even for the title of being best among your friends. If you did you'd disregard everything you've just said.

I'm sure many of the "good players" disagree with me and will flame me or whatever but i don't care, if tournaments become as bland and boring as they were in Melee, I'll just stop going to them this time around, besides i have the internet now anyway.

I'm not a "good player", but whatever.

 

[Master Peach]

In order to dodge peach's Final Smash. You have to manage to get of screen or behind one of the Peach images that shows up. Maybe edge hogging will help as well. But from what I've seen That seem to be the only way to avoid Being touch by Peach's Final Smash. This move is Broken though. Good Luck to those who will be able to dodge it.

[:Edit: If you want to see what I'm talking about look at the Vid. Take a look at Ike on 4:21 http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zfxo4ThurUw
He didn't get affected by it until he was on screen.

People We have to try to look for ways to avoid being hit with these moves instead of trying to automatically Ban them from tourneys. These Move can add strategy. We just have to look into more.]

As for Final Smashes Being in Tournaments. I would like to see that. Final Smash take skill to use and acquire. Also It isn't impossible to dodge most of them and own your opponent. As seen by Yoshi in one of the vids. He dodge almost all of Pit's Final Smash. Like I said before. Edge hogging will help save you from Most final Smashes.

When the game come out I'll be testing with my bro to see, if and how to dodge all of the Final Smashes. I'm sure you can. This is gonna be fun ^^

 

[mkmelee]

Also consider this scenario.

Think about this. Samus vs. Fox. Both have 1 stock, though Samus is at 110% while fox is only at 17%. Samus has a charged blast ready, but is getting combo'd with drill kicks, jabs, grabs and other aerials. It seems hopeless for Samus but then she gets in an u-tilt, which sends Fox a short distance off the stage. He's recovering when WHOOM, in comes a Smash Ball! Samus charged blasts it, the screen goes dark and BAM!

So sorry Mew2King but you just got owned; yes it was flukey, and yes it was a gay FS.

A little cheesy no?

 

[BentoBox]

Alright, a opponent might use the FS right when they get it ( which would be part of your fault for letting them get the ball-Skill). so then what stops you from dodging it? you're right not all FS are straight beam attacks, like sonics or Peach's, but all of them can be avoided ( as far as I've seen there isn't a FS that nukes the whole stage so...). Take Sonic's for example, it does look like a pretty hard attack to dodge. Air dodging wouldn't save you from Sonic's attacks, but rolling looks like it would easily do the trick to me (requires skill).
Peach's is a bit of a problem. If she does get the smash ball ( which again would be your fault) at lest her FS takes sometime to activate. It is a AOE so you could just run out of the affect area, as for her healing well, shouldn't have let her get that ball, and **** happens, just make sure the next ball is yours and use it well (<--- skill) .

I don't understand why you seem to think that a player not being able to catch a ball before his opponent would supposedly display a lack of skill. The ball doesn't spawn right between the two fighters. The ball doesn't lend out its powers after the first poke and from what we've seen, gets knocked away after a bit of pounding (meaning that anyone could get lucky and get the last decisive hit). All of this should've made you realise that whoever is granted the usage of his FS wasn't rewarded simply because he was better. Luck is a definite factor you cannot dismiss. Luck has no place in tournament play.