Why Ness should be out and Lucas should replace him.

[vesperview]

Or it might be an item that allows the characters to tether grab thing

I know but it's most likely a move. They wouldn't waste such a good thing and make it an item.

 

[SenorPresidente]

yeah rope snake is probably a move. i would be kind useless on character who already have grapple like link or samus. but again we have had laser guns when fox has one

 

[silver777]

who is the bigger thief??

Lucas, or Ness?

=p

 

[vesperview]

who is the bigger thief??

Lucas, or Ness?

=p

We don't know until we see Lucas's full moveset, my guess is they will be both equal, with Ness stealing from Paula and Lucas from Kumatora.

Which will make:

Ness: PK Fire, Pk Thunder

Lucas: PK Starstorm, Pk Ground

 

[Noshiee]

We don't know until we see Lucas's full moveset, my guess is they will be both equal, with Ness stealing from Paula and Lucas from Kumatora.

Which will make:

Ness: PK Fire, Pk Thunder

Lucas: PK Starstorm, Pk Ground

I see
Ness: PK Fire, PK Thunder, PK Flash and PSI Magnet...FSK Rockin
Lucas: PK Ground, PK Freeze, PK Starstorm/PK Love, and some other non-PK move, probably Rope-Snake, but I rather have it as his grab move though...FSK Love (i know they are the same (PK Love/PK Rockin), but they can make them different looking) or PK Starstorm

 

[vesperview]

I see
Ness: PK Fire, PK Thunder, PK Flash and PSI Magnet...FSK Rockin
Lucas: PK Ground, PK Freeze, PK Starstorm/PK Love, and some other non-PK move, probably Rope-Snake, but I rather have it as his grab move though...FSK Love (i know they are the same (PK Love/PK Rockin), but they can make them different looking) or PK Starstorm

Rope Snake has to be his grab but yeah that's pretty much how the moves would work.

 

[Oldskool]

lol yeah. unless we want a game with a bunch of really old characters that nobody knows i see nothing wrong with having multiple representatives.

Which are not the kind of people this game was ideally made for.

 

[crotch protector]

lucas' fair i spose..... is this similar to ness'?

 

[vesperview]

We've been discussing it for like the past ten pages, anyway the hexagon and the way he kicks make it different.

 

[crotch protector]

We've been discussing it for like the past ten pages, anyway the hexagon and the way he kicks make it different.

my bad. was it in one of the videos or something?

 

[vesperview]

my bad. was it in one of the videos or something?

No, the only Lucas move that has been seen on video is the one where he releases energy in the air like PK Flash, but then all of the others have been screenshots, he hits and releases the hexagons and he also has Duster's ropesnake from Mother 3 which seems to be his grab so far, that's as much as I can update you on the subject.

there.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Ugh, do I have to explain this AGAIN?

Hexagons have to do with nothing, literally. They're just the upgraded PSI design. If Ness was in, he would have it too, period. Deal with it. There's nothing different between the PSI in every Mother game.

And for ****'s sake, Duster's rope-snake isn't confirmed as a move at all. Stop fooling people into the lie that it's completely confirmed, because it isn't. It could easily be an item.

And even then, if it happened to be his grab, he'd just be Ness with a tether recovery, upgrading an old character. Pretty much all of his moves shown are pretty much what Ness can do. Unless Ness was change drastically in Brawl, they would be clones.

 

[SenorPresidente]

And even then, if it happened to be his grab, he'd just be Ness with a tether recovery, upgrading an old character. Pretty much all of his moves shown are pretty much what Ness can do. Unless Ness was change drastically in Brawl, they would be clones.

when did they show lucas move set? all we have really seen are smash attacks which look different the ness

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Hexagons have to do with nothing, literally. They're just the upgraded PSI design. If Ness was in, he would have it too, period. Deal with it. There's nothing different between the PSI in every Mother game.

I have no ****ing idea what you're talking about.

REAL ISSUE:

They look the similar.

RATIONALE:

So?

Seriously, they could have very different moves and play strategies, not unlike Mario and Luigi. I'm betting anything that Ness will still be in - He's super important, and he's been in from the start.

Now stop acting like ******* and use your heads.

 

[SenorPresidente]

he's been in from the start..

this. just like jiggly maybe he was at risk from getting removed from melee but the fact that he has been since the beginning gives him a good chance to stay as a veteran.

 

[Mic_128]

Just curious, but does anyone actually know what the japanese says under his name?

 

[crotch protector]

Just curious, but does anyone actually know what the japanese says under his name?

"look at the length of lucas' snake!"

 

[alpha n00b]

Just curious, but does anyone actually know what the japanese says under his name?

DUH!, Samurai panda!.

Also, Ness is staying Luke, your "generations needs to pass" theory is garbage, just look at Pokemon!. And you can't say Pokemon is a bad example, because your Link(s) examlpe is'nt much better...

Ness is staying.

 

[vesperview]

I don't know why this thread isn't closed, there's nothing to discuss until Lucas's moves are revealed.

 

[blayde_axel]

I don't know why this thread isn't closed, there's nothing to discuss until Lucas's moves are revealed.

Honestly. I've been said to close this thread... so many invalid arguments, and still no close...

 

[DragoonFenix15]

I am aware that Ness and Lucas are the same character type, in the Mother games themselves...

But then again Ness didn't have PK Thunder or PK Fire in Mother 2, did he?
And did Lucas have the Rope Snake?

They could easily be different fighters. Lucas will probably have PK Ground or Starstorm to go with Ness having Fire and Thunder. Maybe Freeze? For the longest time I actually wanted Paula as a clone of Ness in SSBM, the only change being PK Freeze instead of PK Flash.

But even if you take out the fact that Ness and Lucas like to steal moves from their in-RPG party members, they could still be different fighters. Ness's A-moves are all over the place. Some are melee, some involve made-up PSI attacks. Don't you think Sakurai's team could think up a new set of A moves for Lucas without too much trouble? I'm sure they could.

I've probably repeated what others have said, but this topic is already 11 pages long and I'm not going to bother reading all that. I did, however, read all of your original post. And I just can't stand here and do nothing when I see one of my favorite Smasher's roles get challenged. You do make a good point about passing the generations and what not, but at the same time, Smash Bros MADE Ness. EarthBound was a great game but nobody had really heard of it before Smash Bros, and now he and his game are much more popular thanks to Smash. Leaving him out of the game just seems kinda cold to me, you know? Although your main reason for +Lucas is my favorite and something I agree with 100% -

Lucas being in Brawl PROBABLY means we're getting a Mother 3 localization. It worked for the Fire Emblem series, it can work for this too. If a Nessless Brawl is my price to pay for getting to play EarthBound 2, I'll gladly pay it.

 

[vesperview]

I am aware that Ness and Lucas are the same character type, in the Mother games themselves...

But then again Ness didn't have PK Thunder or PK Fire in Mother 2, did he?
And did Lucas have the Rope Snake?

They could easily be different fighters. Lucas will probably have PK Ground or Starstorm to go with Ness having Fire and Thunder. Maybe Freeze? For the longest time I actually wanted Paula as a clone of Ness in SSBM, the only change being PK Freeze instead of PK Flash.

But even if you take out the fact that Ness and Lucas like to steal moves from their in-RPG party members, they could still be different fighters. Ness's A-moves are all over the place. Some are melee, some involve made-up PSI attacks. Don't you think Sakurai's team could think up a new set of A moves for Lucas without too much trouble? I'm sure they could.

I've probably repeated what others have said, but this topic is already 11 pages long and I'm not going to bother reading all that. I did, however, read all of your original post. And I just can't stand here and do nothing when I see one of my favorite Smasher's roles get challenged. You do make a good point about passing the generations and what not, but at the same time, Smash Bros MADE Ness. EarthBound was a great game but nobody had really heard of it before Smash Bros, and now he and his game are much more popular thanks to Smash. Leaving him out of the game just seems kinda cold to me, you know? Although your main reason for +Lucas is my favorite and something I agree with 100% -

Lucas being in Brawl PROBABLY means we're getting a Mother 3 localization. It worked for the Fire Emblem series, it can work for this too. If a Nessless Brawl is my price to pay for getting to play EarthBound 2, I'll gladly pay it.

This post pretty much sums up how the whole thing could work, if Ness stole moves from Paula and Lucas is stealing moves from Duster, he'll easily get Kumatora's PSI.

 

[Oldskool]

Obviously the series is getting a upgrade, guys we JUST got a MOTHER 3 stage. I think it's over. I don't know how much easier Sakurai can make it besides saying. "GUYS, Ness is GONE, it's MOTHER 3's time to shine!"

Fightings games do this ALL THE TIME, this is the thrid installemnt of smash, we are not gonna have ALL the same **** characters clogging the roster again.

And now that I think about it, why would he keep Ness for a country that wasn't orignally interested in the game he appeared in in the first place? You're 12 years and 3 console generations too late guys...

 

[vesperview]

Obviously the series is getting a upgrade, guys we JUST got a MOTHER 3 stage. I think it's over. I don't know how much easier Sakurai can make it besides saying. "GUYS, Ness is GONE, it's MOTHER 3's time to shine!"

Fightings games do this ALL THE TIME, this is the thrid installemnt of smash, we are not gonna have ALL the same **** characters clogging the roster again.

And now that I think about it, why would he keep Ness for a country that wasn't orignally interested in the game he appeared in in the first place? You're 12 years and 3 console generations too late guys...

That's the most retarted thing I have ever read, the leaving generations behind argument is very stupid... Pokemon Trainer has three first generation pokemons to prove that wrong, and Ness has built a foundation thanks to his appearance in the two previous smash games, of course I wouldn't expect the guy who thinks Takamaru is a giveaway to understand that.

 

[Oldskool]

That's the most retarted thing I have ever read, the leaving generations behind argument is very stupid... Pokemon Trainer has three first generation pokemons to prove that wrong, and Ness has built a foundation thanks to his appearance in the two previous smash games, of course I wouldn't expect the guy who thinks Takamaru is a giveaway to understand that.

The pokemon carry over to the next generation, they can't be compared. Stop spewing out crap that has no realtion to this topic, and Takamaru is probably better than any of the crap you can muster out of your head, whihc I'm sure will end up in an assist trophy fate. And it's not like what you say is going to matter anyway, he's not going to waste his time on foreign language websites he can barely understand just to see a bunch of people who don't want characters he thinks are a good idea.

This amount of ignorance can only come from someone with a lack of Nintendo history in general. If you have not played ANY of the MOTHER games (ideally ALL THREE) get out of here, fast, before you make a spectacle of yourself.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I checked Ness' Bair.

It's different than Lucas'.

EDIT:

Oldskool:

Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle and Pikachu are all first gen.

Vesperview is destroying your argument.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Obviously the series is getting a upgrade, guys we JUST got a MOTHER 3 stage. I think it's over. I don't know how much easier Sakurai can make it besides saying. "GUYS, Ness is GONE, it's MOTHER 3's time to shine!"

Fightings games do this ALL THE TIME, this is the thrid installemnt of smash, we are not gonna have ALL the same **** characters clogging the roster again.

And now that I think about it, why would he keep Ness for a country that wasn't orignally interested in the game he appeared in in the first place? You're 12 years and 3 console generations too late guys...

First of all, you're an idiot.

Moving on - I think it's unsafe to make such claims provided that there COULD be more updates including say, NESS, or an EARTHBOUND STAGE.

As proven with Samus, just becasue there are newer games does not mean that they will represent that character through the newer games. Samus' look is still from Super Metroid.

Link is a different story, simply because he JUST DOES look a hundred times BETTER. There's no comparison between TP link and OoT Link in my opinion. TP just rocks the house.

Samus' look in Prime 3 is only subtly different, and in my opinion the worst look yet.

You have to put everything into perspective. Try to think like Sakurai: What would be best in general to a series?

 

[Dynamism]

I'm pretty sure if they can come up with 2 completely different MS for Ike and Marth who have nothing but a sword to play with, that they can come up with 2 completely different MS for Ness and Lucas who have about 10 times more than "that"

And Ness is almost 'retro' and most of all...

THE SSB64 YO-YO IS BACK TO PWN!!!

 

[Oldskool]

First of all, you're an idiot.

Moving on - I think it's unsafe to make such claims provided that there COULD be more updates including say, NESS, or an EARTHBOUND STAGE.

As proven with Samus, just becasue there are newer games does not mean that they will represent that character through the newer games. Samus' look is still from Super Metroid.

Link is a different story, simply because he JUST DOES look a hundred times BETTER. There's no comparison between TP link and OoT Link in my opinion. TP just rocks the house.

Samus' look in Prime 3 is only subtly different, and in my opinion the worst look yet.

You have to put everything into perspective. Try to think like Sakurai: What would be best in general to a series?

Or they could have used Super Metroid because it was the BEST Metroid game hands down, and the Prime series was made in America? Seriosuly, you're now just grabbing things that cannot COMPARE to this situation. (And I'm not thinking it's Super Metroid anyway, it's probably Zero Mission)

As for the Pokemon series...

The pokemon have never been axed after each generation, other characters even make cameos from the older games. In Daimond and Pearl Oak and Jasmine make cameos. In MOTHER 3 it is confirmed by Itoi that Ness is ****in' dead. He's been in the last two games, it's time for a change. Fighting games do this a lot and Sakurai just can't keep holding on to the same characters, some of them are going to go. And what since would it make to have Ness unlockable and Lucas a main character?

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Or they could have used Super Metroid because it was the BEST Metroid game hands down, and the Prime series was made in America? Seriosuly, you're now just grabbing things that cannot COMPARE to this situation. (And I'm not thinking it's Super Metroid anyway, it's probably Zero Mission)

As for the Pokemon series...

The pokemon have never been axed after each generation, other characters even make cameos from the older games. In Daimond and Pearl Oak and Jasmine make cameos. In MOTHER 3 it is confirmed by Itoi that Ness is ****in' dead. He's been in the last two games, it's time for a change. Fighting games do this a lot and Sakurai just can't keep holding on to the same characters, some of them are going to go. And what since would it make to have Ness unlockable and Lucas a main character?

You're right, Super Metroid is the best one. I didn't think I had to mention that.

The things I mention actually do compare to the situation if you posess an IQ over 20, however I am willing to answer your questions if you simply

ELABORATE.

 

[freeman123]

Oldskool
Or they could have used Super Metroid because it was the BEST Metroid game hands down, and the Prime series was made in America?

Regardless of why they use the SM Samus, he's right about the fact that they don't just represent the newest games in the series. If that were true, Pokemon Trainer would use D/P starters and Diddy's moveset wouldn't be based off of DK64.

Dynamism
I'm pretty sure if they can come up with 2 completely different MS for Ike and Marth who have nothing but a sword to play with

How do you know that Ike and Marth are different? From what I understand, Ike is pretty much Marth except he's stronger and slower. That's what the people who have played the demo have said.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Freeman, there is such a thing as fighting styles.

Oldskool, you don't even have any logic.

 

[Oldskool]

Regardless of why they use the SM Samus, he's right about the fact that they don't just represent the newest games in the series. If that were true, Pokemon Trainer would use D/P starters and Diddy's moveset wouldn't be based off of DK64.

Movesets have nothing to do with it really. And I never SAID that he ALWAYS uses newest games, I'm saying that he porbably will in the MOTHER situation. Ugh, no offense to you though, it's not like you're resorting to direct childish mudslinging. This is why I hate this stuff, they put stuff in you're post that wasn't there so they can argue more, or they pretend like they can't undertand what you're trying to get across.

I'm sure he will say that he was considering which trainer he would use, which would probably effect which pokemon they could use aswell. I think he made the right decision, it's not like the Pokemon Trainers matter, they are in the background, the Pokemon however do (and he used the ones people will be most familiar with and have the most dynamic differences). I do know the trainer was second to Mewtwo for the melee polls, so that may have effected it.

Yeah, I'm not even gonna bother with that logic comment...

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Movesets have nothing to do with it really. And I never SAID that he ALWAYS uses newest games, I'm saying that he porbably will in the MOTHER situation.

But you have yet to elaborate about that, or give proper resoning. You can't make calls like that - you're not psychic.

That's why we're flaming you.

Or at least why I'm flaming you.

Die.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Movesets have nothing to do with it really. And I never SAID that he ALWAYS uses newest games, I'm saying that he porbably will in the MOTHER situation. Ugh, no offense to you though, it's not like you're resorting to direct childish mudslinging. This is why I hate this stuff, they put stuff in you're post that wasn't there so they can argue more, or they pretend like they can't undertand what you're trying to get across.

I'm sure he will say that he was considering which trainer he would use, which would probably effect which pokemon they could use aswell. I think he made the right decision, it's not like the Pokemon Trainers matter, they are in the background, the Pokemon however do (and he used the ones people will be most familiar with and have the most dynamic differences). I do know the trainer was second to Mewtwo for the melee polls, so that may have effected it.

Yeah, I'm not even gonna bother with that logic comment...

What makes the Mother series different? You are completely contradicting yourself.

Everyone knows that Sakurai likes his Retro. You are trying to make the other person look stupid, even though they have much more logic than you.

 

[Oldskool]

What makes the Mother series different? You are comletely contradicting yourself.

Everyone knows that Sakurai likes his Retro. You are trying to make the other person look stupid, even though they have much more logic than you.

What the hell? A retro series is a series of games that has yet to be revieved. Mother JUST got a new game 2 years ago!

Pokemon, follows no LINEAR storyline (well not anymore atleast). Mother seires does in realtion to the Mother 2 and Mother 3 games which may effect the inclusion of characters. I mean we are getting a level that SPOILS the story of Mother 3.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

I have no ****ing idea what you're talking about.

Then read harder.

I'm betting anything that Ness will still be in - He's super important, and he's been in from the start.

Super important?

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

[Pluvia's other account]

What the hell? A retro series is a series of games that has yet to be revieved. Mother JUST got a new game 2 years ago!

Pokemon has 4 Generations.

You still haven't answered my question.

 

[vesperview]

What the hell? A retro series is a series of games that has yet to be revieved. Mother JUST got a new game 2 years ago!

Running out of arguments, huh?

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Then read harder.

I don't like wasting time. Besides, your argument was quite irrelevant.

"ZOMG POLYGONS....MOVESETS auoshfoaighpa"
IT DOESN'T MATTER.

Super important?

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

He's only the main character for one of what is possibly the best games ever, and has formed a massive N. American fan-base.

What exactly did you hope to achieve..