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Why Ness should be out and Lucas should replace him.

Luke Groundwalker

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
1,989
I don't like wasting time. Besides, your argument was quite irrelevant.

"ZOMG POLYGONS....MOVESETS auoshfoaighpa"
IT DOESN'T MATTER.
What the hell are you talking about? Of course the hexagons don't matter. It's just everyone thinks they do. I'm just saying it's the updated PSI design for the whole Mother series. If Ness was in, he would have a hexagon design to his PSI moves too.
He's only the main character for one of what is possibly the best games ever,
Mother 3 > Mother 2, period. Far from best game ever.
and has formed a massive N. American fan-base.
Obviously Sakurai doesn't give a **** about that when he was planning to replace Ness with Lucas in Melee when Mother 3 was being released for the N64 (later canceled, which is why it didn't happen).
 

Pluvia's other account

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What? I said that ALL the pokemon appear in every single game did I not?
No they don't.

Ness and Lucas are from the same franchise. Why would Sakurai want to move on when he barely does it with Pokemon.

And you still haven't answered my question.

I know that quite well, but people seem to think that Sakurai really cares about the "original 12" which he obviously doesn't when you point out that aspect.
That was in Melee. This is Brawl. The Original 12 have a much higher chance of returning than they do of leaving.
 

Noshiee

Smash Ace
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What the hell are you talking about? Of course the hexagons don't matter. It's just everyone thinks they do. I'm just saying it's the updated PSI design for the whole Mother series. If Ness was in, he would have a hexagon design to his PSI moves too.

Mother 3 > Mother 2, period. Far from best game ever.

Obviously Sakurai doesn't give a **** about that when he was planning to replace Ness with Lucas in Melee when Mother 3 was being released for the N64 (later canceled, which is why it didn't happen).
1. We know the hexagons doesnt matter, also, how do you know is an upgraded version of the PSI? if you dont remember, all the effects of the PSI (and others) in the Earthbound games had been different.

2. that you like Mother 3 more than Mother 2 is youre opininon, it doesnt help you in your argument.
 

Luke Groundwalker

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Messages
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1. We know the hexagons doesnt matter, also, how do you know is an upgraded version of the PSI?
Because it is?

Yes, folks, when you see PK Fire in a recent adaptation of a game series with an improved and refined look from the past two games, it DOES retcon the old look. That's simple logic in every piece of fiction ranging to books, comics, and mostly video games.
if you dont remember, all the effects of the PSI (and others) in the Earthbound games had been different.
They didn't have an effects at all, and the effects between Mother 2 and Mother 3 were pretty **** close to each other in how they look.
2. that you like Mother 3 more than Mother 2 is youre opininon, it doesnt help you in your argument.
It's not an opinion, it's a fact. It's simply in good tastes to know that Mother 3 excels in story with the quirk people all loved in Mother 2, along with the very new and well pulled off music-combo system. Mother 2 was just full of quirk, there wasn't much to it other than that. Even the original was better than Mother 2.
 

vesperview

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New Pork City, Colonel Mains: Ness, Luc
How does me adressing a moronic statement signifying that I have run out of arguments? It may mean I've comming to the realization that I'm arguing for no reason for all you know.
Look you just came to this thread to say how Sakurai is clearly leaving Ness behind because Mother 3 is taking over, which you can't back up, if you flame people for saying Takamaru won't make it, expect the same treatment when you argue with idiotic statements the return of a character that has been around since the beginning of Smash, which makes him far more important than Takamaru, who was left behind years ago, except for a gameboy advance remake, if you believe he can make it, anyone can.
 

DragoonFenix15

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
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Oldskool...

You said that Sakurai would want to use characters from a series that are most recognized right?

Don't you think Ness is more recognized WORLDWIDE than Lucas? Sakurai himself has confirmed he is keeping the non-Japan audience in mind this time around. It's just what I said - Smash gave Ness the fame he needed! And yes, he was almost replaced with Lucas in Melee blah blah. Well the fact is, he wasn't, and Melee is the most well known game on the GCN, and who is in it? Ness, not Lucas. I think Ness deserves to be in Brawl. WITH Lucas. Mother 3 is an excellent game, they should both be in, for entirely different reasons. AND with different movesets.

Also, Ness has only been in one Mother game, not two. Ninten is not Ness and Ness is not Ninten.
 

Noshiee

Smash Ace
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Because it is?

Yes, folks, when you see PK Fire in a recent adaptation of a game series with an improved and refined look from the past two games, it DOES retcon the old look. That's simple logic in every piece of fiction ranging to books, comics, and mostly video games.

They didn't have an effects at all, and the effects between Mother 2 and Mother 3 were pretty **** close to each other in how they look.

It's not an opinion, it's a fact. It's simply in good tastes to know that Mother 3 excels in story with the quirk people all loved in Mother 2, along with the very new and well pulled off music-combo system. Mother 2 was just full of quirk, there wasn't much to it other than that. Even the original was better than Mother 2.

but why should Ness have the same hexagonal effects from Lucas?, for the same reasons Samus uses SM misiles, Zelda without a rapier and with OoT spells, etc. seriously, he can have the effects from the last game (probably less paper-looking). And how do you know Ness still uses the same Bair that in Melee(probably, looking at today's update, that could be Lucas Fair)?, they could had given him a new one.

again, do you know what an opinion is? you are just saying why you like Mother 2 more than Mother 3. Probably there is more people who indeed like Mother 3 more than Mother 2 (like me), but there is also people out there who likes Mother 2 more than Mother 3, like the people who likes retro games.
 

Luke Groundwalker

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Messages
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but why should Ness have the same hexagonal effects from Lucas?, for the same reasons Samus uses SM misiles, Zelda without a rapier and with OoT spells, etc. seriously, he can have the effects from the last game (probably less paper-looking).
Ugh, dude, seriously. Are you just ignoring what I'm telling you?

Ness' effects WOULDN'T look the same at all, period, unless the elemental moves won't have a hexagon effect in Brawl, all the moves that Lucas have copied from him in Melee would pretty much be the same as shown with Lucas in terms of design.

Why?

Because like I said for the millionth time, it's simple fictional logic. It's been around for a very long time, with newer forms retconning past forms (like, for example, in the remake of the first Fire Emblem for the SNES, Marth has a new design, which was used in Melee with a few tweaks; he also has a new design in the DS remake, which will most likely be carried over to SSBB). It's literally common sense and has been around for decades.
And how do you know Ness still uses the same Bair that in Melee(probably, looking at today's update, that could be Lucas Fair)?, they could had given him a new one.
I never said I knew, what are you talking about?

Lucas, literally, is pretty much shown to have most of Ness' A moves in the air, albeit instead he may use one hand instead of two for the Fair. Yes, that is a fact, either you like it or not. It isn't a fact that it's confirmed as Lucas' Fair, Bair, whatever. But it is a fact that they're pretty much similar to anything Ness can do.
again, do you know what an opinion is? you are just saying why you like Mother 2 more than Mother 3. Probably there is more people who indeed like Mother 3 more than Mother 2 (like me), but there is also people out there who likes Mother 2 more than Mother 3, like the people who likes retro games.
I know what an opinion is, and I also know what a good opinion is. It's like people saying that Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time is better than Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past or that Final Fantasy VII (one of the worst games in history) is better than Final Fantasy VI, it just isn't true at all.
you are just saying why you like Mother 2 more than Mother 3. Probably there is more people who indeed like Mother 3 more than Mother 2 (like me), but there is also people out there who likes Mother 2 more than Mother 3, like the people who likes retro games.
I love retro games too, most of my favorite games are retro games, whoopity-****ing-do! Does that mean I would be blind to the fact that Mother 3 is a lot better than Mother 2? Hell no.
 

Noshiee

Smash Ace
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Ness is a sorry loser that should be replaced by Lucas/Claus.
first of all, you are not backing up or giving good reasons of what you just said, That you like Lucas/Claus more than Ness is your opinion. Also, Claus is nothing alike to Ness to the level of remplacing him. And Ness is more known in the US more than Lucas, if Lucas becomes more famous than Ness when brawls comes out, that would be the future, not present.
 

Oldskool

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
332
No they don't.

Ness and Lucas are from the same franchise. Why would Sakurai want to move on when he barely does it with Pokemon.

And you still haven't answered my question.



That was in Melee. This is Brawl. The Original 12 have a much higher chance of returning than they do of leaving.
DUR, yes they do, otherwise we wouldn't be able to obtain them through pal park. Enough of the games! It's not up to me for you to understand the answer. I got more to say, but all in all it really isn't worth it in the long run...
 

Noshiee

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Well, good thing NONE of the secret characters are revealed yet... this frivolous argument could go on for ages.
how do you know that any of the already revealed characters are not secret, I remember Sakurai saying that Third-parties will be unlockable, but after the no-japanese characters, and the december 3, and all of the other things he had said, you could be right.
 

Luke Groundwalker

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Jul 23, 2007
Messages
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I'm sure you haven't played the Mother games, what a stupid statement.
I'm sorry, but anyone saying that Ness ISN'T a ****ty character has never played a Mother game in their life. Ness has no backstory at all, nor does he contribute much to the whole journey to defeat Gigyas compared to, say, Paula. Ness is definitely the worst of the Mother main characters.
that thing comes from someone who likes ness, why do you have him as your avatar anyways?
They only have Ness avatars to use. I'll quickly replace him with a nice Lucas one when Smashboards gets them.
 

Pluvia's other account

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DUR, yes they do, otherwise we wouldn't be able to obtain them through pal park. Enough of the games! It's not up to me for you to understand the answer. I got more to say, but all in all it really isn't worth it in the long run...
If every Pokemon was available in every game, I would have Lucario in Blue.

You still haven't answered my question. Do you know why? Because you can't.

Gosh it's fun destroying ignorant people in arguments.
 

Noshiee

Smash Ace
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I'm sorry, but anyone saying that Ness ISN'T a ****ty character has never played a Mother game in their life. Ness has no backstory at all, nor does he contribute much to the whole journey to defeat Gigyas compared to, say, Paula. Ness is definitely the worst of the Mother main characters.

They only have Ness avatars to use. I'll quickly replace him with a nice Lucas one when Smashboards gets them.
actually Ninten didn't contributed much either, he didnt even have offensive PSI, not even PK Rockin/Love.
I dont remeber mario having any backstroy either.
 

vesperview

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I'm sorry, but anyone saying that Ness ISN'T a ****ty character has never played a Mother game in their life. Ness has no backstory at all, nor does he contribute much to the whole journey to defeat Gigyas compared to, say, Paula. Ness is definitely the worst of the Mother main characters.
If they felt that way they would have never added him to begin with, backstory has nothing to do with it, Ness may just get caught up in the whole thing all of the sudden but still, he is the Mother main in Smash, you can't just dismiss him with such a stupid statement like: "He sucks"

Lucas does have a more substantial story, but all in all, his game is still not a worldwide release for him to have more supporters, easy as that!
 

Oldskool

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
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If every Pokemon was available in every game, I would have Lucario in Blue.

You still haven't answered my question. Do you know why? Because you can't.

Gosh it's fun destroying ignorant people in arguments.

In the newer games, ALL pokemon are available. Ask your question again. And stop with the idiotic twisted strawman tactics, they're wasting BOTH our time.

And people need to stop thinking this game revolves around the **** states, that mentality gets on peoples ****in nerves. It's also what keeps games region only.
 

Luke Groundwalker

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actually Ninten didn't contributed much either, he didnt even have offensive PSI, not even PK Rockin/Love.
I dont remeber mario having any backstroy either.
Ninten didn't contribute much but he was connected to the main plotline with his backstory of his grandfather George and Gigyas, yes. So Ninten did have a lot going for him.

But the difference is, Mario is iconic, and has a lot of personality. Ness isn't iconic, only in a cult fanbase in the West, which was grown just a bit in the first two Smash games. In Japan, it isn't Ness that's iconic, it's the idea of a main Mother character. In the first game, Ninten was iconic for the time; then comes the second game, Ness becomes the main icon for the series, being used by Sakurai for the Smash games simply because of that; and now with Lucas, being the main Mother icon for the modern age, pretty much the same character as the first two Mother main characters.

Ness really isn't as iconic as people want to make believe he is, really. I highly doubt Sakurai will listen to a handful of Western fans who support Ness' return. Although it's possible and all that Ness will return, I wouldn't get my hopes up for it.
 

Pluvia's other account

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In the newer games, ALL pokemon are available. Ask your question again. And stop with the idiotic twisted strawman tactics, they're wasting BOTH our time.

And people need to stop thinking this game revolves around the **** states, that mentality gets on peoples ****in nerves. It's also what keeps games region only.
What makes the Mother series so different to the Pokemon one? Sakurai clearly likes his retro.
 

Noshiee

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In the newer games, ALL pokemon are available. Ask your question again. And stop with the idiotic twisted strawman tactics, they're wasting BOTH our time.

And people need to stop thinking this game revolves around the **** states, that mentality gets on peoples ****in nerves. It's also what keeps games region only.
no they aren't.
 

Oldskool

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no they aren't.
Yes, through trading, promotion and wi-fi, they are ALL AVAILABLE. Do you even have Diamond or Pearl? Yeah... I can see this is going nowhere...
I repeat, Sakurai likes Retro characters, RETRO characters are character who haven't recieved OFFICIAL sequals since the 80s.
 

PrettyGoodYear

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What makes the Mother series so different to the Pokemon one? Sakurai clearly likes his retro.
Sorry, I do want Ness to come back but that was a poor defense...

First of all, once a Pokemon is introduced, he is playable in EVERY subsequent Pokemon game. Not only that, but Pokemon like Pikachu are recurringly seen out of their Pokeballs and there are many (in-game) trainers that like them, making them relevant all throughout the series.

And Sakurai clearly likes his retro, yes. I more than agree, but there is a difference between liking say, Pit, who is the only main character in his RETRO SERIES from which he can draw from, as in, Sakurai likes his retro SERIES, but we have yet to see him use an outdated character model.

The thing is Fire Emblem, but Marth and Roy are way too different (in FE, not in Melee) and the reasons for including both of them (Marth for iconity, he did appear in 2 games... Roy for shameless advertisement... in Japan his game was even released, that didn't apply for the US. In the US they were just random, but they did help bring FE to America) couldn't apply to Ness and Lucas.
 

Big-Cat

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take the picture out, is to big!!!
and..o yeah, dont spam...<_<
this is a place for discussion,
what do you want us to do?
Let Limey Man handle it. Frankly, only he and Sakurai can help us.
 

Dr.Saturn

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
134
What the hell!

I'm sorry, but anyone saying that Ness ISN'T a ****ty character has never played a Mother game in their life. Ness has no backstory at all, nor does he contribute much to the whole journey to defeat Gigyas compared to, say, Paula. Ness is definitely the worst of the Mother main characters.

They only have Ness avatars to use. I'll quickly replace him with a nice Lucas one when Smashboards gets them.
Who gives a **** if he has no back story nether does pit, any of the Pokemon, little mac, balloon fighter, Kirby.
 

Luke Groundwalker

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Who gives a **** if he has no back story nether does pit, any of the Pokemon, little mac, balloon fighter, Kirby.
I wasn't saying that a backstory was needed for Smash, I was just pointing out to the idiots who actually thought Ness was a better character than Lucas in terms of the Mother games.
 

Dr.Saturn

Smash Apprentice
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Oct 6, 2007
Messages
134
I mean i love all the mother characters but Ness was always my favorite i don't know why i just always thought there just some extreme power hiding with in him .

I would really love it if Ness, Lucas, and Claus could be in the game i know it sound dumb but to be honest why not i mean the Mother games were great games and its than better melee 5 Zelda characters in which 2 were clones.
 

Noshiee

Smash Ace
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you must feel so proud, are you celebrating tonight? becouse you won an argument about a videogame character being in or not, not to mention that you dont know the people you where arguing with, in a forum...yeah, if I were you, I would celebrate tonight...>_>
Lucas is almost identical to Ness, so we wont miss him, atleast the people with a life wont.
 
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