Why Ness should be out and Lucas should replace him.

[vesperview]

I've won, this is a glorious day.

Still it wasn't for your reasoning in the first post so don't take any credit.

 

[TMS]

Still it wasn't for your reasoning in the first post so don't take any credit.

I lol'd at this post.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

I've won, this is a glorious day.

You guessed right on a 50/50 question >_>

They are rebuffing Ness's B moves for Lucas and making an entire new A move set. Heres hoping that they do a good job.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Still it wasn't for your reasoning in the first post so don't take any credit.

Obviously my reasoning for Ness' removal was correct, especially the fact that the Mother main characters is similar to the multiple Links. Link in Brawl is the Link from TP by design, the Mother main character in Brawl is Lucas by design.

 

[solrac_krad]

Id love Ness to combecak, just imagien, a battle between Lucas and Ness, maybe even Claus

 

[vesperview]

Obviously my reasoning for Ness' removal was correct..

Obviously your biased reasoning and guesses is something that is never gonna get confirmed by Sakurai, cause again they are just your opinions, so NO, it wasn't correct.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Obviously your biased reasoning and guesses is something that is never gonna get confirmed by Sakurai, cause again they are just your opinions, so NO, it wasn't correct.

It isn't biased reason, it's just simple logic that you're too much in denial to see. Yes, it was correct. If it wasn't, why don't we have Ness in Brawl and instead Lucas who replaced him?

 

[vesperview]

It isn't biased reason, it's just simple logic that you're too much in denial to see. Yes, it was correct. If it wasn't, why don't we have Ness in Brawl and instead Lucas who replaced him?

I'm not in denial I already took Ness off my sig, you're the one in denial for thinking your 3 biased points in the first post are the ones that got Ness out of Brawl, whatever, this thread is not worth any discussion anymore.

 

[Roy-Kun]

I'm not in denial I already took Ness off my sig, you're the one in denial for thinking your 3 biased points in the first post are the ones that got Ness out of Brawl, whatever, this thread is not worth any discussion anymore.

Ness has been confirmed as the first removed character then...

I didn't expected that.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

I'm not in denial I already took Ness off my sig, you're the one in denial for thinking your 3 biased points in the first post are the ones that got Ness out of Brawl, whatever, this thread is not worth any discussion anymore.

I never said that my post decided whether Ness was in Brawl or not, but I am saying that the fact that the Mother protagonist are exactly like each Link is pretty much proven when you constantly denied that.

None of my points are biased in this thread. I was biased of Ness in a simple discussion if I said, "I don't want Ness in, Lucas should replace him." without really needing to give much explaining about why (all the explaining is in the first post in this thread), but I wasn't biased at all in each point. Sure it was my opinion, but it was backed up with facts. That's what makes it something different from the typical Smashboard opinion like your's.

 

[vesperview]

I never said that my post decided whether Ness was in Brawl or not, but I am saying that the fact that the Mother protagonist are exactly like each Link is pretty much proven when you constantly denied that.

None of my points aren't biased in this thread. I was biased of Ness in a simple discussion if I said, "I don't want Ness in, Lucas should replace him." without really needing to give much explaining about why (all the explaining is in the first post in this thread), but I wasn't biased at all in each point. Sure it was my opinion, but it was backed up with facts. That's what makes it something different from the typical Smashboard opinion like your's.

Whatever, Ness is deconfirmed, your reasoning sucks even to this day, throw a party no one cares.

 

[Phaazoid]

props luke, you were right. to anyone who still thinks ness will be in brawl, ( just think about what sakurai said. UNTIL now. that means no longer. plus, who wants a clone?

and now, claus is looking good. besides, i hated ness's previous up/down smashes.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Whatever, Ness is deconfirmed, your reasoning sucks even to this day, throw a party no one cares.

If it sucks, then your's must be **** as it's way better.

 

[vesperview]

If it sucks, then your's must be **** as it's way better.

I love how when I try to call the whole argument off, you always turn it into a flame war, I didn't have an entire thread to say why Ness would return, unlike you, so I don't see what the point of your last post is, thing is, your reasoning is biased and is not fact, deal with it.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

I love how when I try to call the whole argument off, you always turn it into a flame war, I didn't have an entire thread to say why Ness would return, unlike you, so I don't see what the point of your last post is, thing is, your reasoning is biased and is not fact, deal with it.

I am not flaming you, I'm just comparing it according to your logic if you think my opinion sucks. My opinion on the situation was good. It was supported by facts and logic. Your's is just, "I want Ness to return just because." Nothing to support WHY Ness should return, nothing. There's nothing wrong with your opinion but don't you dare ever try to say it's better than mine.

 

[vesperview]

I am not flaming you, I'm just comparing it according to your logic if you think my opinion sucks. My opinion on the situation was good. It was supported by facts and logic. Your's is just, "I want Ness to return just because." Nothing to support WHY Ness should return, nothing. There's nothing wrong with your opinion but don't you dare ever try to say it's better than mine.

I was arguing your biased points, not claiming them as fact like you, neither saying they are better than mine because they are both ****ing opinions.

 

[Bane]

props luke, you were right. to anyone who still thinks ness will be in brawl, ( just think about what sakurai said. UNTIL now. that means no longer. plus, who wants a clone?

and now, claus is looking good. besides, i hated Ness's previous up/down smashes.

"Until" is not an exclusive term, if it's emphasized via commas, bolding, or italics, English society assigns that connotation to it, but Ness isn't deconfirmed for the present. I'm not saying his chances haven't been hurt considerably, but Lucas clearly has a luigified version of Ness' moveset, so there's still originality space for Ness in the roster. I don't feel like arguing about the semantics of the statement, if you want to draw your own conclusions based on English society's loose connotation on a phrase translated from Sakurai's crpytic clue in a foreign language, there's very little I cam do to dissuade you, (There's no point in arguing over aether). All I know is that if They wanted to deconfirm Ness, they could have said so easily, but their speech is deliberately vague, and they do not come out and say Ness is deconfirmed in any way. In fact, they deliberately avoid that, referring loosely to his inclusion in previous games and not in the present is the kind of thing sakurai has been doing all along, he's not going to cut a character in some abstract comment, if it happens it's been clear all along. I'm not saying Ness is in for sure, but his presence is still highly possible, to say otherwise is brash and ignorant.

 

[vesperview]

"Until" is not an exclusive term, if it's emphasized via commas, bolding, or italics, English society assigns that connotation to it, but Ness isn't deconfirmed for the present. I'm not saying his chances haven't been hurt considerably, but Lucas clearly has a luigified version of Ness' moveset, so there's still originality space for Ness in the roster. I don't feel like arguing about the semantics of the statement, if you want to draw your own conclusions based on English society's loose connotation on a phrase translated from Sakurai's crpytic clue in a foreign language, there's very little I cam do to dissuade you, (There's no point in arguing over aether). All I know is that if They wanted to deconfirm Ness, they could have said so easily, but their speech is deliberately vague, and they do not come out and say Ness is deconfirmed in any way. In fact, they deliberately avoid that, referring loosely to his inclusion in previous games and not in the present is the kind of thing sakurai has been doing all along, he's not going to cut a character in some abstract comment, if it happens it's been clear all along. I'm not saying Ness is in for sure, but his presence is still highly possible, to say otherwise is brash and ignorant.

Ness is not important enough to return with neither a new moveset or a as a semi clone of Lucas, he is not Luigi.

 

[Bane]

Ness is not important enough to return with neither a new moveset or a as a semi clone of Lucas, he is not Luigi.

In actuality, Lucas is a luigified clone of Ness, whether or not he returns not vice versa. Ness was important enough to get into 64 and Melee, that doesn't just dissapear.

And BTW, props for missing the entire point I was bringing up.

 

[vesperview]

In actuality, Lucas is a luigified clone of Ness, whether or not he returns not vice versa. Ness was important enough to get into 64 and Melee, that doesn't just dissapear.

And BTW, props for missing the entire point I was bringing up.

You're saying he isn't deconfirmed by today's update, and as I said he is not important enough to return with a new moveset or as a semi clone, which is the only way he could return now that Lucas has practically all of his B moves.

 

[Phaazoid]

"Until" is not an exclusive term, if it's emphasized via commas, bolding, or italics, English society assigns that connotation to it, but Ness isn't deconfirmed for the present. I'm not saying his chances haven't been hurt considerably, but Lucas clearly has a luigified version of Ness' moveset, so there's still originality space for Ness in the roster. I don't feel like arguing about the semantics of the statement, if you want to draw your own conclusions based on English society's loose connotation on a phrase translated from Sakurai's crpytic clue in a foreign language, there's very little I cam do to dissuade you, (There's no point in arguing over aether). All I know is that if They wanted to deconfirm Ness, they could have said so easily, but their speech is deliberately vague, and they do not come out and say Ness is deconfirmed in any way. In fact, they deliberately avoid that, referring loosely to his inclusion in previous games and not in the present is the kind of thing sakurai has been doing all along, he's not going to cut a character in some abstract comment, if it happens it's been clear all along. I'm not saying Ness is in for sure, but his presence is still highly possible, to say otherwise is brash and ignorant.

when sakurai said ont the official website that there is a character called ness who has appeared in the smashbros series up until now, it sounds like he's giving him the boot, because he won't make a separate update for it obviously, what better place to make the announcement than on his successors movepage? where it also says that his moves are very similar? DAMMIT SAKURAI, BE CLEAR FOR ONCE AND JUST SAY NESS ISN'T IN BRAWL!!!

i don't hate ness, just sakurai being so **** confusing, as you have a good point.

 

[ThoraxeRMG]

Ness shall return!

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

I was arguing your biased points, not claiming them as fact like you, neither saying they are better than mine because they are both ****ing opinions.

Claiming them as a fact? Hahahaha, what a joke. I never claimed any of my opinions as fact. Although my opinion on the subject is supported by facts, like the Link cliche that is present in Mother and Magical Vacation, and that Lucas has more backstory that Ness. Those aren't opinions, those are facts. However, the whole message that is supported by those facts IS my opinion, and I never said it was a fact.

And yes, there is different types of opinions. One type of opinion is an opinion that is supported by facts, making a reasonable basis on why the opinion might be true. Another is the type of opinion, like your's, that has NOTHING to back it up other than personal preference. I'd say the first type is much better.

 

[Big-Cat]

You keep telling yourself that.

 

[vesperview]

Claiming them as a fact? Hahahaha, what a joke. I never claimed any of my opinions as fact. Although my opinion on the subject is supported by facts, like the Link cliche that is present in Mother and Magical Vacation, and that Lucas has more backstory that Ness. Those aren't opinions, those are facts. However, the whole message that is supported by those facts IS my opinion, and I never said it was a fact.

And yes, there is different types of opinions. One type of opinion is an opinion that is supported by facts, making a reasonable basis on why the opinion might be true. Another is the type of opinion, like your's, that has NOTHING to back it up other than personal preference. I'd say the first type is much better.

What I need to back up saying your arguments are biased? Good one, as I said I never made up an entire thread with biased reasoning to say Ness should be in unlike you and this thread.

 

[EPX2]

You're saying he isn't deconfirmed by today's update, and as I said he is not important enough to return with a new moveset or as a semi clone, which is the only way he could return now that Lucas has practically all of his B moves.

Being one of the three main characters of the Mother franchise (and possibly the most recognizable) doesn't make him important enough?

 

[vesperview]

Being one of the three main characters of the Mother franchise (and possibly the most recognizable) doesn't make him important enough?

I never said he wasn't important, I said in a Smash Bros context he isn't important enough to have a new moveset or be a semi clone.

 

[EPX2]

I never said he wasn't important, I said in a Smash Bros context he isn't important enough to have a new moveset or be a semi clone.

How are you determining this, though? I don't understand why he's not "important" enough (in the SSB series, as you said), seeing as how he's possibly the most recognizable main character of the Mother franchise.

 

[vesperview]

How are you determining this, though? I don't understand why he's not "important" enough (in the SSB series, as you said), seeing as how he's possibly the most recognizable main character of the Mother franchise.

Cause if he was important enough in a Smash context, Sakurai would've never though about replacing him in Melee and Lucas would not have practically all of his B moves.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

What I need to back up saying your arguments are biased? Good one, as I said I never made up an entire thread with biased reasoning to say Ness should be in unlike you and this thread.

It isn't biased reasoning, you have to have a piece of dog**** for a brain to think it is, I'm sorry.

 

[vesperview]

To each their own I guess, I don't really care enough to keep this discussion going so please, refrain from replying.

 

[EPX2]

Cause if he was important enough in a Smash context, Sakurai would've never though about replacing him in Melee and Lucas would not have practically all of his B moves.

Ahh, I see what you mean now. Still, though, you're basing this off something that was supposed to happen in Melee and something that may or may not have any relevance as far as Ness being a significant character in the SSB series. Who's to say that Sakurai may not have reconsidered his position on Ness and came to the conclusion that he is worthy enough of being included in SSBB? After all, it's been almost six years since that bio about Ness was written and a lot of Sakurai's stances on certain issues have changed - he obviously no longer feels hesitant about including his own creations nor about including Japan-only characters (Marth and Roy were supposedly only going to be in the Japanese version of SSBM).

And the fact that Lucas has many of Ness' moves can be looked at in a variety of ways - you can say that he is the spiritual successor to Ness, you can say that he is going to be Ness' Luigi, hell, you can even say that he's going to be what Ness should've been in the original and Melee (i.e. more true to his character, using moves that he actually used in Mother 3, whereas Ness would get his moveset made over).

 

[vesperview]

you can even say that he's going to be what Ness should've been in the original and Melee (i.e. more true to his character, using moves that he actually used in Mother 3, whereas Ness would get his moveset made over).

He can only use PK Rockin and PK Flash, that's not enough to solidify a complete moveset.

 

[Bobby Emerald]

To each their own I guess, I don't really care enough to keep this discussion going so please, refrain from replying.

You're just mad 'cause Luke was on the brink of owning you.
'Sup Luke. Basically, everything that you said makes sense to me, I wouldn't mind Ness being a costume of Luke, but I also wouldn't mind if Ness was a playable character. I'm hoping for the latter though.

 

[Airmicro]

He can only use PK Rockin and PK Flash, that's not enough to solidify a complete moveset.

So what about PK healing, PK shield, PK Lifeup, PK hypnotise and Teleport?

Plus, you could just add the slingshot or his dog (even if it played a little role in the game)

 

[vesperview]

You're just mad 'cause Luke was on the brink of owning you. .

He never owns anyone, he just trolls most threads, so stop kissing his *** you fool.

 

[axemangx]

He never owns anyone, he just trolls most threads, so stop kissing his *** you fool.

Quoted for the holiest of truth.


Seriously.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

He never owns anyone, he just trolls most threads, so stop kissing his *** you fool.

Oh yeah, I have a good opinion, I MUST be a troll, it's the only explanation!

 

[vesperview]

Oh yeah, I have a good opinion, I MUST be a troll, it's the only explanation!

Oh yeah you troll when someone disagrees you must be right.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Oh yeah you troll when someone disagrees you must be right.

Obviously so, especially some **** with a baseless opinion comes in and tries to challenge my more developed one.