Why Ness should be out and Lucas should replace him.

[Noshiee]

I said it was similar to it, not that it was.

Uh, no, not in Melee. Ness creates a PSI ball when he thrusts forward like Lucas did. In the original Super Smash Bros., however, he didn't.

except that Lucas's lightning-ball thingy looks bigger, but whatever
we just need a Lucas Specials update to know if he is indeed like Ness, or totally different
lol!!

 

[Neko Godot]

Ness-fans may get their wishes to pay off!

New pic from Famitsu, not known to be a move or an item, though. But if it's a move, there's a huge chance that Ness might return.

Well, I guess this is bad for everyone who wanted Duster in.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Could that be PK Flash?

 

[Noshiee]

^^^
I hope not, that would decrease Ness chances!!! =(
that's the same attack he did in the Conference Trailer, and in the trailer, it vanished after Lucas performed it, PK Flash doesnt vanish, at least not in melee, dammit,I hope is not like PK Flash!!!, I hope is another special, or alteast his UP Smash


New screenshots from LUCAS!!!

http://www.mother-jp.net/times/20071013.html

we need translator NOW!!!
lol

http://www.mother-jp.net/times/20071012.html

this one too

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Could that be PK Flash?

I'm thinking it is, just Mother 3 style.

You know, if Ness is in, I really hope the effects of his moves are upgraded to the hexagon look from Mother 3, that would be so awesome.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

New screenshots from LUCAS!!!

http://www.mother-jp.net/times/20071013.html

we need translator NOW!!!
lol

http://www.mother-jp.net/times/20071012.html

this one too

The MOTHER3, played by everyone if you know the street,
　 この「ヒモヘビ」はダスターのドロボーグッズの一つです。 This "one's snake" is the duster DOROBOGUZZU one.
　 おそらくアイテムか、リュカの必殺ワザのどちらかになると思われますが、 Probably items, Lucas's knockdown move either to be believed,
　 もしこれがリュカの必殺ワザ（横必殺ワザ？）の一つならば、 If this is Lucas's controversial knockdown (knockdown comes next?) One, if
　 ダスターの参戦キャラクターとしての登場は厳しくなってきたといえます。 Duster to go to war as a character is introduced and has been harshly.

 

[Noshiee]

I'm thinking it is, just Mother 3 style.

You know, if Ness is in, I really hope the effects of his moves are upgraded to the hexagon look from Mother 3, that would be so awesome.

I doubt both of them are going to have PK Flash, I hope that isnt PK Flash =(
also, hexagon stuff powers wouldnt make scenceon Ness, as the hexagon effects are from PK Love, attack that Ness didnt have, though it is the same attack, but the effects are different, the blue hexagons are from mother 3, colorful effects are from Eartbound (Mother 2)

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

I doubt both of them are going to have PK Flash, I hope that isnt PK Flash =(

Too bad.

also, hexagon stuff powers wouldnt make scenceon Ness, as the hexagon effects are from PK Love, attack that Ness didnt have,

Proof that you have never played a Mother game in your life.

though it is the same attack, but the effects are different, the blue hexagons are from mother 3, colorful effects are from Eartbound (Mother 2)

No, the effects from Mother 3 are an improved version of the effects that were attempted in Mother 2, which, mind you, did have some shapes used in the attacks (matter of fact, none of the actual attacks Ness use in Smash Bros. look like what they do in the game). Mother 3 just improved those effects.

 

[GenG]

The hexagons doesn't make a difference when it comes to movesets. We have yet to see if Lucas shares more moves with Ness.

Ropesnake could be B+up or grab, both for Tether recovery.
The PK Flash could be named PK Love and do the same thing, but's still a mystery.

 

[Noshiee]

Too bad.

Proof that you have never played a Mother game in your life.

No, the effects from Mother 3 are an improved version of the effects that were attempted in Mother 2, which, mind you, did have some shapes used in the attacks (matter of fact, none of the actual attacks Ness use in Smash Bros. look like what they do in the game). Mother 3 just improved those effects.

I have played the mother games, at least Earthbound and Mother 3, and I know both of them have that attack, if you read closely to my post, you'll know what I meant with Ness not having the attack
what I mean is the blue hexagons are from mother 3, the other cool colorful effects are from Mother 2
and I know the moves dont look like in mother, and some of them arent even relevant (PK fire damaging everyone on screen, in melee just hits one), but the blue hexagons are oviously taken from Mother 3's PK Love

(go to the general discussion , into the Famitsu thingy topic, they are also discussing about the pictures, it looks like Rope Snake could be a smash attack)

 

[vesperview]

I think Lucas will get PK Ground and PK Starstorm and Ness will keep PK Fire and PK Thunder.

 

[Noshiee]

" There are plenty of videos of the Brawl gameplay but check out the title screen:

Characters: Nintendo / HAL Laboratory, Inc. / Pokemon / Creatures Inc. / GAME FREAK inc / Shigesato Itoi / APE inc. / INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS / Konami Digital Entertainment Co., LTD / SEGA

Note that Snake is not playable in the demo but Konami is listed there.
Here's my point. Shigesato Itoi designed the characters for Mother 1, 2 and 3. Fine, his name is there and Creatures Inc. made Mother 3. But, note, also on the list is APE Inc.
APE Inc. is the company that created Mother 1 and Mother 2. They were renamed to Creatures Inc. before Mother 3. This is the copyright information for the playable characters. If Lucas replaces Ness, there'd be no reason for APE Inc to appear since Shigesato Itoi and Creatures Inc are the two copyright owners.
In conclusion, APE Inc. is there because a character from Mother 1 and/or Mother 2 is playable....NESS!

This is not my wishful thinking. I never really enjoyed playing with Ness in Melee and thought he had too many flaws to use. This was just an observation of mine that I thought I should share. "

credits go to ShortFuse

yay!! another proof that Ness is comingback ^^

note that it says "characters", so saying that APE Inc. could be there because Mother 1 and 2 items, AT, bosses, etc. being in brawl, doesnt count

 

[Pluvia's other account]

That's not PK Flash.

It kept on traveling upwards if you didn't notice. (If that's the one from the video)

Noshiee, doesn't Creatures Inc. own Pokemon..?

 

[Noshiee]

That's not PK Flash.

It kept on traveling upwards if you didn't notice. (If that's the one from the video)

Noshiee, doesn't Creatures Inc. own Pokemon..?

just a third, but it also owns mother 3

 

[Johnknight1]

Ness-fans may get their wishes to pay off!

New pic from Famitsu, not known to be a move or an item, though. But if it's a move, there's a huge chance that Ness might return.

"I see your scwartz is (NOT) bigger then Mine"



Seriously, that's not PK Flash, it's a original attack. It was faster. Maybe PK Rockin'=???

As the last logical person on this thread who's played EarthBound, that's wat I conclude it could be. I could be wrong.

And (the) Pokémon (Company) is their own company as of like 4 or so years I think. APE became Creatures, and Creatures does their own work, like MOTHER 3. Therefore, APE must be involved in Ness, a EarthBound-related stage (NOT MOTHER 3, though there could still very well be a MOTHER 3 stage).

And only 1 of Ness' PK attacks is actually used by Ness in EearthBound. All of his PK attacks (or 3/4 of them) are used by Paula. True facts.

 

[burrito]

With everything that's been going on lately, Ness's chances to appear in Brawl have increased significantly in my eyes. I now believe that there is a 50-60% chance of him returning.

" There are plenty of videos of the Brawl gameplay but check out the title screen:

Characters: Nintendo / HAL Laboratory, Inc. / Pokemon / Creatures Inc. / GAME FREAK inc / Shigesato Itoi / APE inc. / INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS / Konami Digital Entertainment Co., LTD / SEGA

Note that Snake is not playable in the demo but Konami is listed there.
Here's my point. Shigesato Itoi designed the characters for Mother 1, 2 and 3. Fine, his name is there and Creatures Inc. made Mother 3. But, note, also on the list is APE Inc.
APE Inc. is the company that created Mother 1 and Mother 2. They were renamed to Creatures Inc. before Mother 3. This is the copyright information for the playable characters. If Lucas replaces Ness, there'd be no reason for APE Inc to appear since Shigesato Itoi and Creatures Inc are the two copyright owners.
In conclusion, APE Inc. is there because a character from Mother 1 and/or Mother 2 is playable....NESS!

Couldn't that simply mean that there is a Mother 1/2 level or assist trophy?

 

[Noshiee]

With everything that's been going on lately, Ness's chances to appear in Brawl have increased significantly in my eyes. I now believe that there is a 50-60% chance of him returning.


Couldn't that simply mean that there is a Mother 1/2 level or assist trophy?

it specificly says "characters", like I mentioned before in the same post I think¬¬

 

[burrito]

Oh, well it could be an assist trophy or characters in the background of a level. Did Ape get credited in Mother 3 because I know that there are *spoilers!*

Spoiler

at least two Mother 2 characters in Mother 3. Pokey is a villain and Ness is mentioned multiple times from what I heard.

 

[Noshiee]

Oh, well it could be an assist trophy or characters in the background of a level. Did Ape get credited in Mother 3 because I know that there are *spoilers!*

Spoiler

at least two Mother 2 characters in Mother 3. Pokey is a villain and Ness is mentioned multiple times from what I heard.

probably youre right about the first thing, but the APE Inc being credited in Mother 3 I dont know, but is not relevant

 

[burrito]

I was just wondering. I realize it's not relevant.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Ness wasn't mentioned at all in Mother 3, period.

 

[burrito]

Well, I remember reading it somewhere, but if you say so.

By the way, I still haven't played Mother 3, I'm waiting for the translation, so try not to spoil it for me. I've already had it partially spoiled.

 

[thesage]

Ness wasn't mentioned at all in Mother 3, period.

Wrong:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=O28GNbu7ang

I've heard he's mentioned a lot and is said to be a hero in that game. This is also hinted at on the Dojo when Sakurai states, "will Lucas even surpass Ness?"

That move that people say looks like pk flash, it isn't. That's an up-smash or u-tilt. In fact it looks like a weird version of Ness' u-tilt.

Pk flash in melee does kinda look like pk flash alpha in Earthbound, cept it's green.

They could make Lucas like Melee Ness and make Ness more like 64 Ness. Right now everythings speculation.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Wrong:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=O28GNbu7ang

I've heard he's mentioned a lot and is said to be a hero in that game. This is also hinted at on the Dojo when Sakurai states, "will Lucas even surpass Ness?"

Oh woo-hoo, he's in the theater cameo I've seen a million times!

Thanks for pointing out the obvious, genius.

Just because he was in the theater cameo, he WASN'T mentioned at all in the game. There's a fine difference in being in a visual cameo and being mentioned.

That move that people say looks like pk flash, it isn't. That's an up-smash or u-tilt. In fact it looks like a weird version of Ness' u-tilt.

Wouldn't doubt it, it's still hard to say for sure.

 

[Noshiee]

Wrong:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=O28GNbu7ang

They could make Lucas like Melee Ness and make Ness more like 64 Ness. Right now everythings speculation.

1. Luke..he SHUT YOU UP!!! (he is shown in the game, he is metioned in the game, same thing, again, you dont have to be rude with your sarcastic speech, not necesary)
2. That would be a Luigified Lucas, which isnt cool, I want both being completely different!!! We will see when Ness is confirmed (if) and/or when they reveal a Lucas Specials update...or if Lucas is playable in E for All!!!^^

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

1. Luke..he SHUT YOU UP!!! (he is shown in the game, he is metioned in the game, same thing, again, you dont have to be rude with your sarcastic speech, not necesary)

No not really. And it isn't the same thing, despite what you want to think.

 

[thesage]

I've heard he's mentioned a lot and is said to be a hero in that game. This is also hinted at on the Dojo when Sakurai states, "will Lucas even surpass Ness?"

It's a problem when I need to quote myself. Right now there is no argument for wheter he is in or not because half of Lucas' moves shown are somewhat similar to Ness moves in the MELEE version. The one where Lucas only sticks on hand in front and makes a sparkle(s unknown) and the one where Lucas kicks backwards with one foot and a sparkle comes out. Despite how generic these moves are, they still should be considered. That provides an argument that Ness isn't in the game. The other two moves, his weird upward psi thing and the ropesnake, seem to state that he doesn't have Ness' moveset, which may or may not confirm Ness.

 

[Noshiee]

I just relised something, in the fall conference trailer, we see Lucas taking some shiny lightball and releasing it up into the blue hexagonic shine, what if that shiny ball is the shiny ball that appears in anyone while charging their Smash attacks?
It can be seen in screenshots ,as well in the demo videos, a small shiny ball is seen when someone chages a smash attack, which can mean that the attack that lucas did in the trailer is his Up Smash, which is why no hexagon is seen in the screenshot from the japanese site with the unseen Lucas screenshots, the attack wasnt charged, so making it weaker...what do you think? is that attack a special or a Up Smash? (I doubt is an Up Tilt, it takes to long to perform)
If it is indeed an Up Smash, then thats another move that Ness never had, increasing his chances, unless the hexagonic attack looks similar to a yo-yo lol!!
If not, it still different from Ness, but still a mystery
<_<...
>_>...

 

[Mama]

I'm not going to slog through 27 pages of a character in or out debate thread so I'll just respond to the original topic/post if thats okay. I'm not pro Ness or pro Lucas. I don't use Ness at all. Nor have I played any of the Earthbound games (I think I played a bit of the first one but I'm not really sure)

I simply think that both characters can be in the game with no real problem. They may be based off the same concept (the main characters in the earthbound series) but Link is still a completely different concept in itself. He's basically reincarnated. Inheriting the Tri-force of courage from the previous hero. The Earthbound main characters are just similar in appearance (status and equipment as well but I don't think that really matters). Ness could be changed for Brawl and both he and Lucas could exist in the same game. The fact that Mother 3 was a Japan only release only helps that argument seeing as how not everyone has played Mother 3 but everyone has had a chance to grow attached to Ness and would be confused if there favorite character disappeared so some (seemingly) random guy could take his spot.

From a storyline point of view I think it makes sense to replace Ness. But from a Brawl point of view I think it makes more sense to have both characters.

 

[Enigma14]

For his shield he should use PK Shield instead of the bubble and it would look like Fox's reflector

 

[freeman123]

He looks pretty different from Ness to me.

 

[2007]

@Luke Groundwalker:
after reading your first rant, that puts grounds for Ike replacing Marth and Roy
Marth FTL
Roy FTW.

 

[Noshiee]

He looks pretty different from Ness to me.

I know, the only thing that looks similarto ness in the screenshots is his Bair, and probably the light, which looks loosly like PK Flash, but it is not continous (like in the trailer), it vanishes, so it cant be PK Flash. I was actually thinking it could be his Up Smash, as the little shiny light appears before releasing the blue hexagonal energy. it could also be a taunt, as it is seen in the trailer around other taunts. We will find out in the dojo, hopelly in the near future, or when tht game comes out.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

@Luke Groundwalker:
after reading your first rant, that puts grounds for Ike replacing Marth and Roy
Marth FTL
Roy FTW.

Roy sucks and should not return

Are you basing it just on Melee or the games?

Because it should be based on the games more than Melee


Roy looses either way though

 

[slisenberg]

I can't read the whole thread (19 pages! ack!), but the topic post was well done. :D

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

He looks pretty different from Ness to me.

Then you're obviously in denial.

 

[Noshiee]

Then you're obviously in denial.

why is that? the only think similar there is the Bair...and I already said it inmy last post why the light is not PK Flash.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

why is that? the only think similar there is the Bair...and I already said it inmy last post why the light is not PK Flash.

Uh, pretty much all of his moves look like something Ness could do. And you don't know if that one is PK Flash or not. It easily could be. It's similar to it either way. Ness' PK Flash didn't even look like the PK Flash in Earthbound.

And the ropesnake isn't confirmed as a move, either you like it or not.

 

[Noshiee]

Uh, pretty much all of his moves look like something Ness could do. And you don't know if that one is PK Flash or not. It easily could be. It's similar to it either way. Ness' PK Flash didn't even look like the PK Flash in Earthbound.

And the ropesnake isn't confirmed as a move, either you like it or not.

as well as bowser's moves looked like something charizard could do. so what?

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

They also looked like something Bowser could do...

I do see a lot of similarities, but some incosistencies have popped up as well... we shall see.