Why L-cancelling shouldn't be in Smash 4.

[DefenseTech]

Removing L cancelling WOULD help casuals only in technical terms, you're right, but we're arguing against it because it's an outright bad mechanic, not because we're thinking about "casuals."

Not quite sure how removing L-canceling would help casuals...The playing field would be leveled, sure, but ones ability to successfully attack, defend, and recover would not change at all.

Casuals would still get demolished by hardcore players...Just as they do now

I understand the point you and the OP are making, and it's a good one. However because of Sakurai's design decisions L-canceling must come back.

I am guessing you are referring to Sakurai wanting to make the new game a bit faster than brawl, automatic L-cancel would achieve the exact same thing and be more efficient (in my opinion)

I don't think asking for competitive and balanced landing lag across all characters is more reasonable than bringing back L-canceling. It may be a repetitive and unnecessary mechanic but it's better than the alternative.

Edit: I think I misread your post. On the other hand the laggy attacks make the game look more fluid, L-canceling looks a bit jarring to be honest. It's much better for competitive play though, so I think it's a good compromise.

In this case I think the alternatives (some which have been discussed earlier) are far superior

Competitive players will always find ways to edge out casual players regardless of the mechanics within the game

 

[Sedda]

I was saying that to agree with the other guy, because it would be one less wall that casuals wouldn't have to worry about if they wanted to play competitively.
I don't want L cancelling in the game, and I like the fact that casuals would still get demolished, which is why L cancelling is useless.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

In this case I think the alternatives (some which have been discussed earlier) are far superior

When I said alternative, I was referencing Brawl's lag-canceling mechanic, which was terrible. If they make a system where every aerial is automatically canceled in the same manner as L-canceling I'm all for that; However, if Sakurai does not go this route (and I doubt he will) L-canceling is the only other viable option.

 

[DefenseTech]

When I said alternative, I was referencing Brawl's lag-canceling mechanic, which was terrible. If they make a system where every aerial is automatically canceled in the same manner as L-canceling I'm all for that; However, if Sakurai does not go this route (and I doubt he will) L-canceling is the only other viable option.

I think most everyone agrees that brawls lag-canceling mechanic was terrible and directly detracted from the game

What I would like to see is a totally new mechanic introduced that gives the player more options

This may fall into the fantastical department but I think some kind of meter could really work in smash

 

[smashbro29]

Whether or not they speed up the game has nothing to do with having L-cancelling or not.

That being said, L-cancelling is dumb for the already really valid reasons presented but let's take our average SF playin' Joe and see how this goes for him.

Bobby (who I totally just made up right now) buys Melee after seeing it at Evo, he'd never played smash before he thought it was Mario Party 2.0 or something. He goes home, checks it out it's a lot of fun he then goes online to learn how to up his game. Now keep in mind Bobby is like most people who play SF, an action that is more difficult is only so because of the time it takes to do the move it is ingrained into the balance, he then learns he has to jump up ever so slightly do an aerial and move with 2 different sticks and tap down to go down and PERFECTLY time his shield button, this isn't some fancy Desk stuff this is normal gameplay, what's to be expected of everyone considered halfway decent at the game.

Bobby (like most everyone I explained this to) said "the hell with this" why? It's a lot of work to get down for a basic action! I think doing the aerial and fastfalling is enough!
In SF if I pick Akuma do I need to cancel my landing lag when I do an air fireball? NO! Because that's ridiculous, if this weren't in smash and someone brought it up you'd call them a moron.

So why do people defend this "mechanic" so much? It feels good to do. It is so satisfying to be able to do on a consistent basis that if it gets taken out that feeling goes away for them. I also think they fear that the game will be less "hardcore" (which is completely moronic and you totally know why) because more people will have the basics down, and of course there are the typical insecure players who feel as if this skill separates them from the "noobs" and they might not be such hot stuff when that barrier is taken down.

Overall L-cancelling is the very definition of a game design sin, I feel as if in 64/Melee it was meant as a cool little bonus until they saw how badly it could be abused and they took it out of Brawl (the one good thing about the game's mechanics).

My solution? Cut landing lag automatically and make it look organic in the animation.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Because SF and SSB are totally the same game.

 

[smashbro29]

Because SF and SSB are totally the same game.

Way to disregard everything else I said.

I'm saying that no other game requires such ridiculous finger gymnastics just to land safely.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Way to disregard everything else I said.

I'm saying that no other game requires such ridiculous finger gymnastics just to land safely.

I'm mocking the idea of comparing them in the first place. I hate fighting games. I think all those other games are stupid. I hate fighting games where you always face each other. I love smash for allowing freedom of movement. It is a platformer. So, frankly, if smash does it and other games don't, I'm totally fine with that.

 

[smashbro29]

I'm mocking the idea of comparing them in the first place. I hate fighting games. I think all those other games are stupid. I hate fighting games where you always face each other. I love smash for allowing freedom of movement. It is a platformer. So, frankly, if smash does it and other games don't, I'm totally fine with that.

Ok, here's another doozy for you. No platformer I've ever played has intentionally employed such an obtuse/unnatural (obviously not to people on smashboards) mechanic for landing on the ground with lag after an aerial attack.

 

[elatedshyguy]

If having to press L after every attack is stupid, then having to spin around my joystick before pressing two buttons at the same time to do a special in SF is stupid. And if they simply cut the lag the game would look awkward. I think the best way Nintendo can cater to the L-cancel enthusiasts and the L-cancel adversaries is by adding a cancel system like the one in Marvel v. Capcom 3. If you perform an aerial and when first hitting the ground perform another attack, you would cancel lag. Here's an example:

Let's say you wanna Dair and then perform smash down right after.

With L-cancel you would have to, Dair, L-cancel, smash down

With the MvC 3 cancel system you would have to, Dair, and right when touching the ground, smash down

It' hard for me to explain, but do you guys understand what I'm talking about?

 

[DefenseTech]

My solution? Cut landing lag automatically and make it look organic in the animation.

The simplest solution

If having to press L after every attack is stupid

It is stupid...

then having to spin around my joystick before pressing two buttons at the same time to do a special in SF is stupid

This makes no sense at all, button inputs make perfect sense...Kinda like...You know...Up+B and Down+A...

Just so happens that SF requires more complex inputs

If you perform an aerial and when first hitting the ground perform another attack, you would cancel lag.

Finally a good point, this method would also favor the offensive style that a lot of people crave

 

[elatedshyguy]

I would have appreciated it if you were a bit more respectful with your respond, but I understand now that I can't compare L-cancel to Specials in SF because specials don't turn the tide of the battle, however who ever has less lag can get around better and win. Anyways what's important is do you agree with the MvC3 cancel system?

 

[TreK]

If you perform an aerial and when first hitting the ground perform another attack, you would cancel lag.

That is not very different from the 'low lag on all aerials' that the anti-L-cancel guys are advocating. The only difference I could think of is that they could add limitations to it (ie not being able to move, only attack. Or not being able to do it if the aerial whiffed or something) that would make it a bit more easy to balance out.

 

[Kef]

This topic is one that I've always found extremely interesting, because there's really no "correct" side. Not only I like it when talking about fighting games, but also when talking about other competitive events like sports.

As a soccer and sports fan, I've met a lot of people with the same passion as me (or even more). I've always found interesting how there are fans who watch colossal amounts of soccer, know every fact about the game, know the rules by memory, assist every home game of their team, and actually analyze the established strategy of the game. These fans know how every play should go, how every player should approach all plays, and even go as far as doing an extremely good job at exposing both coach's intentions at battling each other. But the single most peculiar part of all this, is that when the time comes so they play the game, the can barely juggle the ball twice.

Street Fighter fans commonly compare the game to chess when explaining it to non-gamers. The biggest difference is that chess provides the same amount of tools to both players while having absolutely no need for any type of physical demand (except of course the brain). The reason fans are astonished to see Daigo's parry, Desk's combo exhibitions, and Javi doing multi-shines on the fly is because of the amount of work it's required to do. These are ways players show their mastery of the game, and that's the main reason L-Cancelling will always be defended. It feels good to know you can consistently do it, just as it feels good to know you can do tricks nobody can in soccer. When you give players the best tools while not requiring greater execution, the players' brilliance becomes a lot harder to appreciate for the common viewer (why would I be impressed if I could do that?). The common viewer will not appreciate spacing, reads, composure, nothing. But oh man, it only takes on flashy combo or one fancy cartwheel kick to make everyone think you are the best player. You see why that is now?

In my personal opinion, there was a huge mistake in catering to casual players' view in something they don't fully understand. It is not even about why is it not fair that I beat you at Smash because I put in extra effort, it is about why are you complaining in something that regards me and my community for the rest of the game's lifetime, but it only worries you for the month or two you are going to play the game. But the damage is set and done.

Short, L-Canceling should be automatic because of how the situation of Smash is today (and the clarified view of Sakurai of Melee being competitive and Brawl being casual). Just make it look natural so my casual friends can go wild when they pull a 3 hit combo or something. This is coming from someone that when he was 12 hated wavedashing and l-canceling because of how hard they were. Now, I can't see myself not pressing L when landing when playing any other smash game. Oh, how times change.

 

[elatedshyguy]

That is not very different from the 'low lag on all aerials' that the anti-L-cancel guys are advocating. The only difference I could think of is that they could add limitations to it (ie not being able to move, only attack. Or not being able to do it if the aerial whiffed or something) that would make it a bit more easy to balance out.

It is different. It's manual lag cancel v. automatic lag cancel. Manual lag cancel in my opinion is better because it could add depth. It could add depth if it would benefit the player to not cancel certain attacks. This is why I argue for manual lag cancel. I don't see automatic lag cancel being able to add depth in anyway.

 

[elatedshyguy]

Honestly, I could care less how lag cancel is handled (automatic v. manually), as long as 'lag cancels'. I prefer manual lag cancel, in the fashion I provided (MvC3 style), because it could add more options if handled correctly.

 

[FirestormNeos]

*Hears people talking about L-cancelling* I'm 12 and what is this?

 

[Fox Hater]

L-cancelling is stupid and always has been. There is NEVER a reason not to do it. No advantage of not doing it so whatsoever. Therefore it should be automatic. In fact I've heard top Melee players say this.

What does this mean? It means it's nothing but false, artificial difficulty. There's nothing impressive at all about learning artificial barriers.

For instance. Say Smash 4 requires you to do a shoryuken motion before you can jump, for every jump ever. You still have to press the jump button but now you need the shoryuken motion every single time as well.
Does this suddenly make Smash 4 suddenly more hardcore and competitive than Melee/Brawl? Of course not. The idea is absurd.

I'm all for advanced tech and lots of it...when there's actual depth to it and gives you MORE options, not "learn this completely asinine tech skill to do somethng so basic and there's absolutely no reason to ever not to do it".

This is why I would have liked to have seen Wavedashing in Smash 4, now that is a legitimate tech that adds true depth since it gives you more OPTIONS (Key word).

There have been many other fighting games where you could cancel a move to combo attacks that have higher recovery frames ( or lag for you smashers ) there is nothing wrong with adding difficulty in a fighter if there is a high reward for doing it. Your statement is flawed but not completely. I agree that most attacks the quick ones should have automatica cancel, but maybe every character should have at least one aerial that it is powerfull or usefull in a unique way and having to press a button to cancel it would be a good deep strategy. Maybe adding a cancel bar that is constantly being consumed and filled etc.

There are games like Guilty Gears who used this tech and King of fighter also. In GG it was called roman cancel. And the better player got rewarded by learning the timings. I dont think there is something wrong with canceling normals.

Also smash in general became competitive because of L cancel ( smash 64 and melee that is ) Just like in SF you could combo normals into super and that became a trade mark for SF, L cancel became a culture in smash. Brawl came and it was taken away to catter the casual wii players. So I personally dont see anythinf wrong with L cancel coming back. But maybe not all aerials need to be canceled like I mentioned early.

So we will see what happens, I sincerly hope that when Sakurai and Namco Bandai come to the drawing board they research some competitive melee matches and take ideas, but this seems like a rather long shot...

 

[smashbro29]

There have been many other fighting games where you could cancel a move to combo attacks that have higher recovery frames ( or lag for you smashers ) there is nothing wrong with adding difficulty in a fighter if there is a high reward for doing it. Your statement is flawed but not completely. I agree that most attacks the quick ones should have automatica cancel, but maybe every character should have at least one aerial that it is powerfull or usefull in a unique way and having to press a button to cancel it would be a good deep strategy. Maybe adding a cancel bar that is constantly being consumed and filled etc.

There are games like Guilty Gears who used this tech and King of fighter also. In GG it was called roman cancel. And the better player got rewarded by learning the timings. I dont think there is something wrong with canceling normals.

Also smash in general became competitive because of L cancel ( smash 64 and melee that is ) Just like in SF you could combo normals into super and that became a trade mark for SF, L cancel became a culture in smash. Brawl came and it was taken away to catter the casual wii players. So I personally dont see anythinf wrong with L cancel coming back. But maybe not all aerials need to be canceled like I mentioned early.

So we will see what happens, I sincerly hope that when Sakurai and Namco Bandai come to the drawing board they research some competitive melee matches and take ideas, but this seems like a rather long shot...

All I see here is "well GG and KOF have some obtuse cramp inducing BS so smash should too".

 

[Fox Hater]

All I see here is "well GG and KOF have some obtuse cramp inducing BS so smash should too".

=.= a very profound argumet... sorry your lack of saying something reasonable to debate will make me ignore you.

Does anyone else feels L cancel has grown as a Unique standard in our community and should be bringed back, just like in SF, marvel, MK, GG, Kof they have unique techs that serve as a trade mark for them

 

[Vkrm]

Guilty gear is fun as ****.

 

[[Corn]]

=.= a very profound argumet... sorry your lack of saying something reasonable to debate will make me ignore you.

Does anyone else feels L cancel has grown as a Unique standard in our community and should be bringed back, just like in SF, marvel, MK, GG, Kof they have unique techs that serve as a trade mark for them

Wait, people are defending L canceling?
Let me ask you a question, is there ever a time you shouldnt l cancel an air attack? In every other game, dash canceling or similar mechanics are all used strategically and not every single time because they are not needed for everything.

L canceling is one of those game mechanics that if made autoed, would have no impact on the game whatsoever as every single character used them anyways.

Adding unnecessary inputs doesn't make a game more competitive in terms of player vs player. People use it because it gives them an advantage, having it auto cancel or something will still give you the same thing.

Depth =/= higher execution barrier
Depth = Strategic Gameplay with Multiple Variations of Playstyles

Pressing L every time you land isnt one of those.

 

[Fox Hater]

Wait, people are defending L canceling?
Let me ask you a question, is there ever a time you shouldnt l cancel an air attack? In every other game, dash canceling or similar mechanics are all used strategically and not every single time because they are not needed for everything.

L canceling is one of those game mechanics that if made autoed, would have no impact on the game whatsoever as every single character used them anyways.

Adding unnecessary inputs doesn't make a game more competitive in terms of player vs player. People use it because it gives them an advantage, having it auto cancel or something will still give you the same thing.

Depth =/= higher execution barrier
Depth = Strategic Gameplay with Multiple Variations of Playstyles

Pressing L every time you land isnt one of those.

hmm interesting it does sound logical what you say. I could understand that normal attacks should have less recovery ( i guess this is what you mean by auto cancel ) but then that means link's dair, ganon's fair and dair should have less lag. I wonder if this could really be done well and balanced..

 

[smashbro29]

=.= a very profound argumet... sorry your lack of saying something reasonable to debate will make me ignore you.

Does anyone else feels L cancel has grown as a Unique standard in our community and should be bringed back, just like in SF, marvel, MK, GG, Kof they have unique techs that serve as a trade mark for them

Alright boss let's take it down in detail.

There have been many other fighting games where you could cancel a move to combo attacks that have higher recovery frames ( or lag for you smashers ) there is nothing wrong with adding difficulty in a fighter if there is a high reward for doing it. Your statement is flawed but not completely. I agree that most attacks the quick ones should have automatica cancel, but maybe every character should have at least one aerial that it is powerfull or usefull in a unique way and having to press a button to cancel it would be a good deep strategy. Maybe adding a cancel bar that is constantly being consumed and filled etc.

Using cancels in a fighter has you do the bare minimum in Marvel you do L-M-H-S this is the most logicalw ay to do what you want to. Wanna interrupt a move with another move? Well DO that other move!

We have no reason to believe they'll put in a cancel meter, it's not intended to look technical on the surface level, probably not gonna have meters. This is Smash not the latest from Arc Systems Works.

There are games like Guilty Gears who used this tech and King of fighter also. In GG it was called roman cancel. And the better player got rewarded by learning the timings. I dont think there is something wrong with canceling normals.

Canceling normals makes sense, links make sense, hitting a button to land safely is not like those at all. Those include choice, those are necessary actions to do what you want to do. If I told you to do a combo that went up the basic magic series you'd just have to hit the buttons in order and it's the only logical way that could happen.

Roman Cancels are an option, one that you has benefits if you do it at the right time and can put you at a disadvantage at the wrong time.

In Smash you're asking someone to do something no other game does, hit a button to land safely after an aerial. It's ridiculous this is something that should be in the game's balance some mvoes land fast others don't. Simple.

Also smash in general became competitive because of L cancel ( smash 64 and melee that is ) Just like in SF you could combo normals into super and that became a trade mark for SF, L cancel became a culture in smash. Brawl came and it was taken away to catter the casual wii players. So I personally dont see anythinf wrong with L cancel coming back. But maybe not all aerials need to be canceled like I mentioned early.

Culture? There's an L-cancelling culture? Are shoulder buttons the food of their people? I'm sorry but none of the depth of the games came from this arbitrary BS. In both games that featured it only 2 moves total (both in 64) benefited from not L-cancelling at times.

So we will see what happens, I sincerly hope that when Sakurai and Namco Bandai come to the drawing board they research some competitive melee matches and take ideas, but this seems like a rather long shot...

Thankfully you don't work for them.

 

[[Corn]]

hmm interesting it does sound logical what you say. I could understand that normal attacks should have less recovery ( i guess this is what you mean by auto cancel ) but then that means link's dair, ganon's fair and dair should have less lag. I wonder if this could really be done well and balanced..

Auto cancel as in air attacks shouldnt have that much ending lag in general. Regular attacks should have the same as current.

 

[Sedda]

Z/L cancel is definitely not the reason why competitive smash is a thing. Competitive smash would still be here because they're great games. It's easy to pick up and can develop as far as its players want to. Competitive smash, just like any other competitive scene, probably came from friendly competition and seeing how far people could go with it before the tournament scene materialized into what it is today.

 

[Fox Hater]

Z/L cancel is definitely not the reason why competitive smash is a thing. Competitive smash would still be here because they're great games. It's easy to pick up and can develop as far as its players want to. Competitive smash, just like any other competitive scene, probably came from friendly competition and seeing how far people could go with it before the tournament scene materialized into what it is today.

yeah to be competitive it only need people willing to compete.. but if it were nt for these types of advance techs the game would not be lasting 10 years and counting... Look at brawl its obviously fading away, even tough wii had a much bigger instal base, brawl being a new game compared to melee. But its lack of depth, and advanced tech skills compared to melee has made it disappear almost. Yes there are a few tournaments here and there, but come on melee is coming back at evo and yes it was because people pay for it... but damn melee community is strong.

That is what I meant, the game has remained strong after these years because of the depth and reward you get when you keep dscovering and evolving the game after 12 years

 

[[Corn]]

yeah to be competitive it only need people willing to compete.. but if it were nt for these types of advance techs the game would not be lasting 10 years and counting... Look at brawl its obviously fading away, even tough wii had a much bigger instal base, brawl being a new game compared to melee. But its lack of depth, and advanced tech skills compared to melee has made it disappear almost. Yes there are a few tournaments here and there, but come on melee is coming back at evo and yes it was because people pay for it... but damn melee community is strong.

That is what I meant, the game has remained strong after these years because of the depth and reward you get when you keep dscovering and evolving the game after 12 years

What? Brawl was purposely designed not to cater to competitve players. Saying that it has a smaller community is stating the obvious at this point. Brawl doesnt have the major comp community, but it sure as hell has nearly everything else.

Wavedashing and L canceling arent advanced tech skills, L canceling is a meaningless execution barrier and wavedashing is a basic mobility option at this point.
L canceling has no depth, at all.
Wavedashing only has depth because of its variety of uses.

 

[Fox Hater]

Alright boss let's take it down in detail.

In Smash you're asking someone to do something no other game does, hit a button to land safely after an aerial. It's ridiculous this is something that should be in the game's balance some mvoes land fast others don't. Simple.



Culture? There's an L-cancelling culture? Are shoulder buttons the food of their people? I'm sorry but none of the depth of the games came from this arbitrary BS. In both games that featured it only 2 moves total (both in 64) benefited from not L-cancelling at times.


Thankfully you don't work for them.

-.- ummm where have you been these past ten years, we have being asking to do what other game doesnt for a long period of time.

1- no health bar, %
2- Team battles
3- stages that affect the Match up
4- Wave dash
5- YES! L CANCEL
6- edge game ( edge hog, edge guard )
7- stocks

Welcome to smash bro...

And you know what everyone loves it. To the extent that a team of passionate fan dedicated time to fix a game ( brawl ) -that discarded all the effort a community gave over the years - and created project M

and you know what it has L CANCEL also. It is the way smash has been played and the way we all enjoy it.


About the culture, well I think I used the wrong word, but I feel you understood what I meant for it, not food

 

[smashbro29]

-.- ummm where have you been these past ten years, we have being asking to do what other game doesnt for a long period of time.

1- no health bar, %
2- Team battles
3- stages that affect the Match up
4- Wave dash
5- YES! L CANCEL
6- edge game ( edge hog, edge guard )
7- stocks

Welcome to smash bro...

And you know what everyone loves it. To the extent that a team of passionate fan dedicated time to fix a game ( brawl ) -that discarded all the effort a community gave over the years - and created project M

and you know what it has L CANCEL also. It is the way smash has been played and the way we all enjoy it.


About the culture, well I think I used the wrong word, but I feel you understood what I meant for it, not food

The "we" you refer to is a pretty small base. I'm part of that base and I don't like it, and people clearly agree with me.

 

[[Corn]]

-.- ummm where have you been these past ten years, we have being asking to do what other game doesnt for a long period of time.

1- no health bar, %
2- Team battles
3- stages that affect the Match up
4- Wave dash
5- YES! L CANCEL
6- edge game ( edge hog, edge guard )
7- stocks

Welcome to smash bro...

And you know what everyone loves it. To the extent that a team of passionate fan dedicated time to fix a game ( brawl ) -that discarded all the effort a community gave over the years - and created project M

and you know what it has L CANCEL also. It is the way smash has been played and the way we all enjoy it.


About the culture, well I think I used the wrong word, but I feel you understood what I meant for it, not food

1:Unique
2:Unique I guess.
3:Never really asked for it, just happened to help balance counterpicking.
4:We found wavedashing, never asked for it.
5: Noone asked for L canceling, it just existed from the start.
6:This is part of 1, irrelevant.
7:Lives, healthbars, this isnt unique.

I honestly hate Project M, they tried so hard to make Brawl into Melee that it disgusted me.

You appear to have no idea what depth is. Unless you can name a situation in which you shouldnt L cancel, you have lost that argument with me and everyone else.



If English isnt your native language, I suggest that you look up what depth in a video game actually is. I suggest comparing L canceling to Wavedashing in terms of usage and application.

 

[Fox Hater]

1:Unique
2:Unique I guess.
3:Never really asked for it, just happened to help balance counterpicking.
4:We found wavedashing, never asked for it.
5: Noone asked for L canceling, it just existed from the start.
6:This is part of 1, irrelevant.
7:Lives, healthbars, this isnt unique.

I honestly hate Project M, they tried so hard to make Brawl into Melee that it disgusted me.

You appear to have no idea what depth is. Unless you can name a situation in which you shouldnt L cancel, you have lost that argument with me and everyone else.



If English isnt your native language, I suggest that you look up what depth in a video game actually is. I suggest comparing L canceling to Wavedashing in terms of usage and application.

It isnt.

And well I guess Im speaking to the brawl crowd I wont waste my time also. Here is hoping the new smash ends up being a great game, and that both comunities can coexist

 

[[Corn]]

It isnt.

And well I guess Im speaking to the brawl crowd I wont waste my time also. Here is hoping the new smash ends up being a great game, and that no both comunities can coexist

That solves one thing at least.

 

[CRASHiC]

And you know what everyone loves it. To the extent that a team of passionate fan dedicated time to fix a game ( brawl ) -that discarded all the effort a community gave over the years - and created project M

Then why are you guys one of the smallest competitive scenes if everyone loves it?
Not everyone loves it in fact to most people its a joke

 

[nLiM8d]

I hate coming in late on a discussion as you miss most of the meat that people are weighing in. Its valuable.

So how does someone win in a fight? You've got your skill set and they've got theirs- can the loser define how their opponent got the best of them?

I forgot who mentioned this, but he/she stated that the important factor that matters during high level play are definitive opportunities. I read that as split second instances that can really make the difference based on how the user interprets then capitalizes on them.

Often times I find that advanced techniques are hard to appreciate because of the subtlety behind their defining features: you've got a game where you punch and kick and some amazing stuff happens yadayada. What really leaves an impression on me is how the game introduces certain features to you. I really took a liking to how Project M handled some of these concerns, one example being that your character flashes white to let you know that you've executed something properly.

That sort of cue gives the player an idea of the options or tools that are available for them to explore. Something they can aim to be more efficient at, something they can work towards in the interest in finding out how to maintain that edge. You've got to imagine that high level players that understand their playstyle enjoy these options because of the reward that it gives them respectively; not necessarily because it helps them to be the better player in any given match, it helps them become better at playing.

Keep options that reward players for learning.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Seriously, wtf is L-cancelling?

 

[grizby2]

you guys aren't thinking of your FULL "L" potential!
no no.... now.. if you want to hear a GOOD idea...

!NEW FEATURE!
L-JUMPING

right after jumping, quickly press R/L to preform an L-jump, making you jump a bit higher and ascend higher!

L-CHARGING
tired of waiting for smash attacks of charging up? press R/L during the start-up animation frames to do an L-charge, cutting charging in half!



...

 

[grizby2]

Seriously, wtf is L-cancelling?

I like this guy! ^^^

 

[FirestormNeos]

I like this guy! ^^^

That's very nice.

Though you know what would make me very happy panda?

If you would kindly answer the question.

 

[John12346]

Giving a player an option they should perform every time does seem redundant, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be readjusted to work in a more proper way. For example, one could make it so characters can L-cancel only near the end of their aerial, or perhaps landing in such a way results in less landing lag altogether without the need for L-cancelling?

If L cancelling(or perhaps any AT) was PURPOSELY reinstated into Smash 4, the game itself should make it a point to explain exactly what it is(How to Play), and give you a visual cue for when you get it right(in P:M, for example, you flash white), though.

That's very nice.

Though you know what would make me very happy panda?

If you would kindly answer the question.

In Melee, if you perform an aerial normal attack(B moves don't count), and you land before your aerial finishes, you can press a Shield button at that time to reduce the amount of cooldown time you experience. The mechanic was removed in the transition to Brawl.