Why isn't there a separate button for short-hopping and normal jumping?

[supersmash43]

It is very easy sometimes to accidentally high-hop (aka 'normal hop') when you actually intended to short-hop in the first place. How could this problem be easily avoided? Ok, this applies to both Melee and Brawl (not sure about SSB 64 because I hardily ever played that game) because on the Game-controller both the Y and X buttons can be used for jumping.

What's the point of having both buttons perform the SAME action (which is SHORT and HIGH hopping)? They could have just had one of those buttons dedicated to short-hopping and the other one for high-hopping.

The precision required to short-hop from characters with fast-jumping characters like Fox and Falco (who leave the air on the 4th frame IIRC) is just ridiculous! You have to release the jump button within 2 or 3 frames (which is 1/20th or 1/30 of a second) to perform a short-hop. Otherwise, your high-hop. This isn't too much of an issue for characters with slower jumping animations like Bowser and Ganondorf though.


Maybe it is because the Gamecube controller I am using right now is a bit stiff but really the hypersensitivity required for short-hopping (which can too easily result in not SH'ing) is a little annoying if you ask me. Especially when the control layout I mentioned could have been so easily implemented given the abundance of buttons on the GC controller.

In the heat of battle, when you want to perform a SHFFL it is almost impossible sometimes to avoid accidentally high-hopping.

I think this alternative control set-up can help avoid those frustrating mess-ups (which result from human error due to how incredibly easy it is to accidentally high-hop).

 

[Ghostbone]

Yea it sucks

But you learn to deal with it. (plus it'd be annoying having to constantly switch jump buttons depending on whether you want to full hop or short hop)

 

[Big-Cat]

Yea it sucks

But you learn to deal with it. (plus it'd be annoying having to constantly switch jump buttons depending on whether you want to full hop or short hop)

How would it be annoying? That's like saying it's a bit annoying to switch between light, medium, and heavy attacks in a fighting game.

 

[Ghostbone]

How would it be annoying? That's like saying it's a bit annoying to switch between light, medium, and heavy attacks in a fighting game.

More convenient for me to only need to use one jump button. (I can assign the other jump button to something else in brawl at least)
Though I guess if you had one dedicated short hop button and another button which works the way jumps work now it'd be cool.

 

[supersmash43]

How would it be annoying? That's like saying it's a bit annoying to switch between light, medium, and heavy attacks in a fighting game.

The only compliment I can see against the proposal I made here is that some players say this feature would make the game too noob friendly (as in it take much less skill to master the art of short-hopping). To be honest, I think it is almost impossible to make short-hops all the time whenever you like. Even the best players will occassionally accidentally not short-hop because it easy to make this mistake from human error due to the incredible precision behind it (especially for characters with short jumping animations like Fox) .

 

[UltiMario]

If short hopping is something that needs to be mastered then Super Mario Bros is a competitive fighter.

 

[Ghostbone]

The only compliment I can see against the proposal I made here is that some players say this feature would make the game too noob friendly (as in it take much less skill to master the art of short-hopping). To be honest, I think it is almost impossible to make short-hops all the time whenever you like. Even the best players will occassionally accidentally not short-hop because it easy to make this mistake from human error due to the incredible precision behind it (especially for characters with short jumping animations like Fox) .

Top players don't full hop accidentally.

And there are techniques that are 9001 times harder than short hopping that players pull off consistently.

 

[FIREL]

Short hopping is easier with a button.

 

[supersmash43]

Top players don't full hop accidentally.

And there are techniques that are 9001 times harder than short hopping that players pull off consistently.

I guess I must be too noobish.

 

[shawz]

i don't think it's that big of a deal, once you play enough it becomes second nature.

 

[link2702]

the only time i accidently full hop when i intended to short hop is in lagfi...

but...its freaking lagfi lol....



anyway i like the idea of having one button being dedicated to just short hops and then the other that works like it currently does...

 

[Slashy]

Actually it is much better in Brawl than in Melee

 

[tera twin]

It's incredibly easier to short hop in Brawl than Melee.

 

[Ghostbone]

Strangely I find it harder to short hop with the control stick in Brawl.
Might have something to do with the control stick sensitivity.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I can shorthop reliably in Melee as Pichu.

What's this BS about "nobody can reliably shorthop"?

It's easy. Just release the button before your jumpsquat animation ends. Which if you're wondering, in Brawl is between 5-8 frames, depending on character, iirc.

Pichu in Melee? Like Pikachu, 2 frames.

 

[OkamiBW]

Pretty sure Pichu, Pikachu, Fox, Sheik, Samus, Ice Climbers, and Kirby have 3 frames to let go of jump. 4th frame should be the jump animation, just like in Smash 64. Someone confirm this please.

Short hopping just takes a little bit of practice. You should be able to get it 99.7% of the time after a couple months of playing.

Also, yeah, the Y button should be something else. Since X is close to the C-stick and you don't run over buttons to short hop aerial. The R trigger could be something else as well. Along with a Z2 button on the left.

Note: There are also different methods of short hopping. There's tapping, which I find harder to do. And personally, I just slide my thumb off the X button for best results.

Edit 2: Personally, I think D-Pad left should be wavedash left and D-Pad right should be to the right.

 

[EpixAura]

Well, I guess making short-hopping harder adds to techskills, lol. But in all seriousness, now that I've got the hang of it, I wouldn't want to change it. Same for wavedashing and L-canceling in Melee. Of course I'd want to make these easier, but I've already spent so much time practicing, it'd be a shame to change it. If the technique is good, it should take some practice.

I also just slide my thumb off the X button when short-hopping. I still mess up every once in a while, mostly in Melee with Falco's SHFFL, but since I use Falco, I jump so far up that they can't get me anyway, as long as I put some thought into the landing.

 

[OkamiBW]

L-canceling should probably be auto-canceling. Only reason why it perhaps shouldn't be is for the slight barrier to perfect shield pressure from space animals. And to give Ice Climbers a little shield stun mix up.

 

[Savon]

Also because the jumping in Smash is not as simple as just a high or low jump. You can get various jump heights based entirely on how long you hold the stick when you jump. That would open the door for people wanting a button for medium, low-medium, and medium high jump buttons too.

It is not hard to short hop brol

 

[FIREL]

I find it easier to short hop by setting the jump button above the attack button, meaning i only have to "slide" my thumb quickly across jump and attack, and it'll reliably short hop and attack at the same time. [Wiimote + Nunchuk]

 

[Sunnysunny]

Yeaaaa, it's hard to short hop at first but I guess ya get use to it. still inconvenient.

I'd vastly prefer it if they used MvC's style of jumping. If ya wanna do a big hop you press down then up. Much smoother feeling.

 

[supersmash43]

Yeah thanks for advice on short-hopping.

 

[Ussi]

i'd like this.. then i can short hop with R finally

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Short hopping is pretty easy, especially if you played platformer games it would be second nature to do.

Anyway, I blame the Wiimote option for this.
I don't know why.

 

[Pogogo]

None of the advanced techniques are particularly hard. Its the combinations that really hard and the level of consistency that's required. Like missed WD off edge kills you

 

[Gea]

Also because the jumping in Smash is not as simple as just a high or low jump. You can get various jump heights based entirely on how long you hold the stick when you jump. That would open the door for people wanting a button for medium, low-medium, and medium high jump buttons too.

It is not hard to short hop brol

This isn't true.

 

[MonkUnit]

Yeah, Savon, that isn't true at all. lol

You only have short hop and full hop, bro

Anyways

in answer to the OP question

Because sakurai didn't want to do that

/thread

 

[Zankoku]

Also because the jumping in Smash is not as simple as just a high or low jump. You can get various jump heights based entirely on how long you hold the stick when you jump. That would open the door for people wanting a button for medium, low-medium, and medium high jump buttons too.

Are you sure you're not playing Super Metroid?

 

[san.]

I'm pretty sure this concept is universal in almost every platformer nowadays.

 

[SuperMetroid44]

It really doesn't matter to me. Just press the button lightly and you jump lightly, no need for a whole button for it. It be cool, but it doesn't really matter, like I said.

 

[Espyo]

Yeah, the thing is that not everyone has fast fingers. I can only short hop with Fox in Melee like 1 out of every 30 times. While others can SHFLL as easily as they breathe. Sure, your idea doesn't seem bad, supersmash43, but the thing is that they know short hops have potential, and they wanted to reward fast fingers. If your fingers aren't quick enough to perform a short hop, maybe you don't deserve the benefits it has.

On the other hand, competitiveness in the Smash Brothers world is horribly blurry. To make a Smash game that can be appreciated by everyone is an Intense Boss Battle (see what I did there?). If each button behaves differently, the tournament players will complain that it makes life easier for noobs, and if the buttons work as they do now, casual players will complain they can't short hop. Deciding between implementing your idea and leaving it out must be brutally hard for Nintendo.

 

[EmperorB-rad2kj]

Short hopping is prett easy tbh and doesnt require your fingers to be all that fast. Practice it and im sure youll find its secong nature. When i first found out about DACUS it was hard as nails to do but once i got it down it was as easy as breathing.

Simply an example

 

[supersmash43]

None of the advanced techniques are particularly hard. Its the combinations that really hard and the level of consistency that's required. Like missed WD off edge kills you

Yeah, the thing is that not everyone has fast fingers. I can only short hop with Fox in Melee like 1 out of every 30 times. While others can SHFLL as easily as they breathe. Sure, your idea doesn't seem bad, supersmash43, but the thing is that they know short hops have potential, and they wanted to reward fast fingers. If your fingers aren't quick enough to perform a short hop, maybe you don't deserve the benefits it has.

On the other hand, competitiveness in the Smash Brothers world is horribly blurry. To make a Smash game that can be appreciated by everyone is an Intense Boss Battle (see what I did there?). If each button behaves differently, the tournament players will complain that it makes life easier for noobs, and if the buttons work as they do now, casual players will complain they can't short hop. Deciding between implementing your idea and leaving it out must be brutally hard for Nintendo.

Yeah you are right. Having a short-hop and normal hop button just makes the game too noob-friendly even though it is very difficult for me to short-hop with Fox in Melee consistently too (although characters with slower jumping animations like Bowser and Ganondorf aren't too difficult to short-hop with for me).

 

[OkamiBW]

Having a short-hop button doesn't really make the game more "noob friendly". If short hopping were broken, it'd be understandable if there was difficult execution. But short hopping really isn't broken. The reason why there isn't a need for a short-hop button is because short hopping simply isn't that difficult to begin with. If anything, one of the jump buttons should be something else that's more difficult to do, but not necessarily broken.

 

[Big-Cat]

Why are we valuing tech skill so much here?

 

[Blissard]

I can't tell whether or not people are trolling about being unable to short hop.

 

[MonkUnit]

Why are people arguing about how easy or hard it is to short hop in brawl or melee? Legit answer below. Answers it fully.

Yeah, Savon, that isn't true at all. lol

You only have short hop and full hop, bro

Anyways

in answer to the OP question

Because sakurai didn't want to do that

/thread

If you have any question as to why something was done in a certain way in brawl, easy answer; "Because Sakurai" or "Because Sakurai didn't want to."

 

[Zantetsu]

Oh, now they want short hopping to be easier?.. Come on this game isn't that hard to grasp.

 

[EmperorB-rad2kj]

Yeah you are right. Having a short-hop and normal hop button just makes the game too noob-friendly even though it is very difficult for me to short-hop with Fox in Melee consistently too (although characters with slower jumping animations like Bowser and Ganondorf aren't too difficult to short-hop with for me).

Agreed the game is already considered easy enough.

 

[Ghostbone]

Agreed the game is already considered easy enough.

Melee is considered easy enough?
Wut