why i think tournaments need more respect (serious topic)

[PoundSlap]

ive noticed something. a lot of people are treated disrespectfully at tournaments. i think respect and fair play is a major point in every kind of sports, e-sports is not an exception.

and im not speaking of the constant yelling of the americans (i can understand it since tournaments are indeed hype, but it disctracts the players a lot), im speaking of direct bullying. i think its already kinda bullying when you are rooting for your player since the other player has to realize that nobody is on his side. but we have to draw the line here. when people then start to chant "leffen sucks" there is definately a problem of lack of respect existing. i think people who do that should be banned from the event. i value respect and fairness a lot and this really made me mad. it was again a typical case of wrong patriotism. apart from that, leffen did absolutely nothing wrong. it is stated in the rules that you cannot press pause or you lose a stock. to my mind leffen would be disrespectful for not insisting on it because he would then not comply with the rules and hence get disqualified. leffen made the impression to me that he didnt insist on it right away but he rather did it to not get disqualified, so people should really think about it again.

another thing i think is very disrespectul is the cheering of some players. for example i never see armada during his sets stand up and cheer in a stupid way. he stays calm and focused until the end because it means more respect for all. when i see peepee, he even cheers during stocks, i mean what the ****? and after matches he stands up and dances? i think thats one of the most distracting things ever and if someone did that to me it would make me so extremely mad that i cannot focus anymore. it also distracted a bit armada i think, especially in set 1 of gf.

apart from that apex was really a great experience. but still i think we have a lot of work to do, but what do you think?

 

[Biglard]

A lot of players have a headset during their matches, Leffen included. If a player fears to be distracted by cheering/booing/USAing, it shouldn't be too hard to buy a headset, or to have somebody lending one to him.

As for the disrespectful aspect of chants such as "Leffen sucks", I approve, but it's just my humble personnal opinion, and I think people should definitely not be banned from the event, as long as they're not screaming out loud one inch away from his ears.

 

[randomguy737]

>implying you can change people's opinion of Leffen
>implying patriotism against Leffen
>implying having spirit and celebrating is a bad thing

 

[ajp_anton]

USA chants are fine and obvious considering where the tournament is.
PP cheering for himself during the match looked a bit stupid, but it probably distracted himself more than Armada so whatever.
"Leffen sucks" just made me want to never go to a US tournament again (though I probably will anyway if I get the chance), and I don't like how you put this in the middle of an obvious troll post.

 

[V-K]

>implying you can change people's opinion of Leffen
>implying patriotism against Leffen
>implying having spirit and celebrating is a bad thing

Now we already have that greentext **** on Smashboards?

 

[ShroudedOne]

"Leffen sucks" just made me want to never go to a US tournament again (though I probably will anyway if I get the chance), and I don't like how you put this in the middle of an obvious troll post.

This, and I live here.

 

[1000g2g3g4g800999]

>implying patriotism against Leffen

#UnLeffenNation?

 

[Beat!]

The "leffen sucks" chant was appalling and completely unacceptable, and everyone who participated in it should feel ashamed.

leffen's said and done a lot of things that would justify a disliking towards him (for the record, him following the rules is not one of them), but a ****ing hate chant? Disgusting.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Yoooooooo leffen sucks

 

[EPsilon933]

The Smash community sucks pretty hard sometimes

 

[Cactuar]

The crowd is fickle. Everyone who was sitting in the US team corner was trying to get the crowd to stop that chant immediately as it started. Hate chants are generally similar to the "patriotism" displayed by lower level players when they trash talk for their region's high level players. It is something that good players do not do because we usually have a great deal of respect for one another. Speaking from a competitive point of view, as your understanding of competition matures, you want your matches with any opponent to be played at the highest level possible ON BOTH SIDES, which is why that respect for others grows as your player skill does. Beating an opponent who is not playing to their ability feels shallow and dissatisfying, as it doesn't really display your own depth in ability.

Serious response to somewhat troll post, but I do feel it is necessary to address the "leffen sucks" chants, as they were highly inappropriate. Cheering is acceptable because it is the result of a desire from the crowd to inspire one of the players to play better. These antagonistic cheers that directly call on one of the players and attempt to insult or distract them are horrible, as their intent is to reduce that person's level of play, which, as I mentioned above, is not the desire of any higher level player, as we want them to play their best against ours.

 

[iRobinhoood]

As bad as it was, some members of the smash community did quickly boo the chant to death as did I. It was disgusting.

 

[the_CAM_factor]

i think its pretty unprofessional if that is our ultimate goal. but at the same time i think the most respectful and professional people on the boards dont get these chants hurled at them so maybe these people should be emulated

 

[Dr_Strangelove]

american smash community: forgives unprovoked post-game violence, hate chants against foreigners who are cocky on forums.

 

[Jolteon]

What happened to Leffen was really unfortunate, but whatever, apparently the vocal majority of the community thought otherwise.

 

[Sacredtwin11]

When a home crowd boos another team in sports, no one condemns them. Or when a penalty goes against them, they'll boo a lot of the time regardless of whether it's the right call. But I agree that chanting leffen sucks is bad and shouldn't happen.

 

[Charlesz]

At least no chairs were thrown and people strangled.

 

[PoundSlap]

@Cactuar: your post is good, but i dont agree with the part that all top players respect eachother. at least not during actual sets. peepee was pumping his fists, chanting usa and dancing around in a provoking way next to armada. i dont think thats a respectful way to play a set. other than that i agree with your post.

 

[JPOBS]

american smash community: forgives unprovoked post-game violence, hate chants against foreigners who are cocky on forums.

Makes sense. its easier to forgive a mistake from someone who is charismatic and likeable than from someone who goes out of his way to be an ******* literally all the time.

I guarantee that if that anyone else was in leffen's position and did the whole pause-stock-take ruling thing against scar, the community at large would NOT take it as such a big deal.

There are advantages to being sociable. If anything, Leffen has something to learn from this whole thing too, so lets not paint him to be some innocent victim.

 

[Dr_Strangelove]

Makes sense. its easier to forgive a mistake from someone who is charismatic and likeable than from someone who goes out of his way to be an ******* literally all the time.

I guarantee that if that anyone else was in leffen's position and did the whole pause-stock-take ruling thing against scar, the community at large would NOT take it as such a big deal.

There are advantages to being sociable. If anything, Leffen has something to learn from this whole thing too, so lets not paint him to be some innocent victim.

So why don't people do the same thing when m2k plays? He's unapologetically pulled some pretty ridiculous **** over the years. What about mango? He is just as cocky and unlikeable on the forums as leffen is, probably more so.

Oh wait, they're from america. ALL IS FORGIVEN.

 

[JPOBS]

So why don't people do the same thing when m2k plays? He's unapologetically pulled some pretty ridiculous **** over the years. What about mango? He is just as cocky and unlikeable on the forums as leffen is, probably more so.

Oh wait, they're from america. ALL IS FORGIVEN.

There's a bunch of reasons that m2k and mango are likeable, I'm not going to explain them to you because honestly, you're just being confrontational and I don't care to argue anymore.

 

[Nintendude]

PP didn't do anything wrong. He had home field advantage and was trying to get his supporters pumped up especially since everyone was so disheartened by Armada's thrashing of his Falco in WF. Anyone who's spoken to PP knows he has nothing but respect and admiration for Armada.

 

[Jockmaster]

I still don't understand the hate for Leffen.

He's a fantastic player and a very intellignent member of the community

Participating in a hate chant simply because he is kind of a blowhard on smashboards is pretty pathetic. That would be like...idk who is a good example of an American like Leffen and honestly I'm not going to throw out names...but it would be like one of th e best Americans going over to Europe and them chanting about how much he sucks. It would make them look very bad in our eyes

 

[Nicco]

Have you seen any real sports? In football there are constant chants both for, and against teams.

If someone can't handle being cheered against, they shouldn't be competing.

 

[Tomber]

The first thing I did when I entered this after reading the headline was to ctrl+f "leffen". Seems like I was spot on.

Anyway, some sports competitors (don’t remember the names, can look it up) say that it motivates them to play better when people are cheering against them. They use the cheering as some kind of "trigger" in order to make them first their best. It's often part of the sport/game and is something you should try to adapt to as a top player in any case as there isn't much you can do about it.

With that said, I didn't really like the "leffen sucks" chant at Apex either. But I don't think it affected him that much.

 

[Battlecow]

Cactuar, you're full of **** lol. "Oh good players never do that it's just that you lower-level subhuman plebeians who are inferior to us morally as well as at melee, if that even needs to be said." Did you not catch any of hungrybox's (hilarious, public, and laudable) anti-leffen jabs? By your logic, he has about 600,000 times the moral authority you have. I find it very funny that you used the same "Oh good players know how it is and don't need to explain themselves" line to defend unknown's actions (which were actually despicable).

The "leffen sucks" chant was lacking in class. Not sure if I support it because leffen's despicable and cheering against despicable opponents is part of hype/fun competition, or if it was a step too far

I definitely think that shouts of "**** him up hax!" or "get bodied leffen!" are very acceptable, and that cheering against people you don't like is part of the competitive experience once you leave middle school

Also **** me I just responded seriously to a troll thread just like everyone else, this discussion should've taken place elsewhere and poundslap should've been banned years ago

 

[jerflip]

Have you seen any real sports? In football there are constant chants both for, and against teams.

If someone can't handle being cheered against, they shouldn't be competing.

Are you serious?

SSBM isn't soccer. These aren't entire teams playing, these are single players. Imagine going to a tennis game and the crowd starts chanting "Nadal sucks". Or a game of badminton where they chant "Taufik sucks". It doesn't happen in professional sports, or even professional e-sports for that matter (SSB has a long way to go before being considered a legitimate e-sport).

All I know is if I were in Leffen's shoes, I'd be pissed

 

[batistabus]

"Leffen sucks" was total bull****. It doesn't matter how he acts on these forums...that was childish and unacceptable.

Also, the football/soccer analogy doesn't exactly apply here. Just about everyone in that crowd was entered in the tournament. It's not like they're fans watching from home completely removed from the experience like an average person compared to a sports athlete. What if, in baseball, the team up to bat was chanting something similar to the opposing team's pitcher? It's simply bad sportsmanship, which is sometimes enough to get you booted from a professional sports game.

 

[ajp_anton]

I still don't understand the hate for Leffen.

He's a fantastic player and a very intellignent member of the community

When in an argument about anything from smash to what soda tastes the best and what someone said 5mins ago, he goes all out making the other look stupid in order to win.
He knows this and he's trying to improve (at least IRL), but it's difficult to get rid of such an image of yourself.

Have you seen any real sports? In football there are constant chants both for, and against teams.

If someone can't handle being cheered against, they shouldn't be competing.

Football (whatever version) is a team sport. It's easier to handle than being chanted against *personally*. There may be ways to be cheered against that aren't as disrespectful, but "[name] sucks" is too much.

Also **** me I just responded seriously to a troll thread just like everyone else, this discussion should've taken place elsewhere and poundslap should've been banned years ago

We aren't responding to the thread, we are responding to a discussion that happend to be started by a troll post =).

 

[Zhea]

Gonna start off by saying, yeah the Leffen Sucks chant was not socially acceptable. He wasn't the only one heckled, I.E. the **** M2K got during his set with Mango. It did not show well on the community. By the same token Leffen kind of needs to learn to be more tactful.

Yeah, yeah implying still getting butt hurt on the internet 2013, but words mean something. Leffen speaks his mind, he is direct and that's fine, however:

Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untraveled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these formalties as ‘empty,’ ‘meaningless,’ or ‘dishonest,’ and scorn to use them. No matter how pure their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best.

If Leffen want's to speak his mind such a blunt matter than he kinda has that coming. If you poke the bee, you are going get stung, and Leffen has been swinging at the nest like it's a pinata. Neither side is guilt free, but neither side decided to step up and be the bigger person.

Most of the people chanting didn't know Leffen outside of his board's persona and the same has, judging by the crowd, probably been true of Leffen. So would you go up to a stranger and start **** talking them? Wouldn't you be polite?

Either way Leffen did well this tournament and I hope him and Javi get a rematch.

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

I would disagree with the Dr. PP dancing and cheers being disrespectful because he was generating hype and didn't mean any ill-will towards Armada. I think Armada would probably agree with that sentiment as well.

So yes, I was the one that started the "Leffen Sucks" chant immediately after the Scar/SFAT teams fiasco when Leffen/Ice played Mango/DoH. I thought the Leffen is a f***** was when it went too far. (Won't mention who said that).

however, the next day, I proposed the "Leffen Rules" chant when he played Hbox and cheered for him.

 

[oukd]

^ at least you manned up to your mistake and are honest about it, good ****

i thought the leffen sucks chant was definitely inappropriate. but still kinda funny lmao
shouldn't happen again though

If you poke the bee, you are going get stung, and Leffen has been swinging at the nest like it's a pinata.

damn. dat eloquent analogy

 

[Scar]

The crowd is fickle. Everyone who was sitting in the US team corner was trying to get the crowd to stop that chant immediately as it started. Hate chants are generally similar to the "patriotism" displayed by lower level players when they trash talk for their region's high level players. It is something that good players do not do because we usually have a great deal of respect for one another. Speaking from a competitive point of view, as your understanding of competition matures, you want your matches with any opponent to be played at the highest level possible ON BOTH SIDES, which is why that respect for others grows as your player skill does. Beating an opponent who is not playing to their ability feels shallow and dissatisfying, as it doesn't really display your own depth in ability.

Serious response to somewhat troll post, but I do feel it is necessary to address the "leffen sucks" chants, as they were highly inappropriate. Cheering is acceptable because it is the result of a desire from the crowd to inspire one of the players to play better. These antagonistic cheers that directly call on one of the players and attempt to insult or distract them are horrible, as their intent is to reduce that person's level of play, which, as I mentioned above, is not the desire of any higher level player, as we want them to play their best against ours.

We can bring this up again in Episode 4 - even though we already covered crowd / player interactions this is a bit more nuanced and is pretty relevant. It's also one of the few things I disagree with you about so there's that. imo the OP is reasonably good too.

 

[ph00tbag]

Hax with the slicing motion, tho.

 

[Bad Cupboard]

PP dancing around was fantastic and in no way disrespectful. Being happy that you won shouldn't be frowned upon, and neither should showing it. He was generating hype. It would have been different if he had taunted Armada.

The Leffen sucks chant was ****ing disgusting though. It was absolutely uncalled for and made the smash community look like a bunch of angsty children.

 

[Svetsunov]

Don't agree with the "Leffen Sucks" chant, even if he is a huge ***.

PP dancing around and whatnot is a different story.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

I only talked to Leffen for like 5 minutes but he seemed like a good guy. The Mudkip hat was mad cute as well.

Can't say I didn't harbor a teensy bit of animosity toward him tho. But thats mostly because Aziz and Wes are my dudes. Hax poopin on him in the crew battle pretty much put that to rest tho lol

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

you make the bed you lie in.
that chant wouldn't have been any quieter if ppl knew him better ^.^

 

[Europhoria]

I can't believe anyone in a competitive community ever getting to the point where they're thinking about a situation like this where no one can cheer against someone/trash talk them is the right thing. People are so dumb

 

[oukd]

oh and speaking of tournament respect. who was the one random guy who was being a **** to m2k during his set?