Why hasnt meta knight been banned yet?

[Zodiac]

Link to original post: [drupal=3030]Why hasnt meta knight been banned yet?[/drupal]



Honestly, people may read this and think...stfu, however the fact is that after EVERY SINGLE major tournament theres buzz on banning meta knight and every time, meta knight mains come in with some crap that somehow keeps him a legal character, meta knights are almost ALWAYS the top ranks,hell even ally is picking up meta knight now. Take a hint Back room, meta knight needs to be banned, not just because he cheap but because every GOOD player has a meta knight in their back pocket. And if it keeps going like this then we will come to the point where brawl is littered with people going their "main" in round 1 against the smart people (Meta knight mains) and then thinking "guess I better switch over to meta knight now so I can win. I had fun with my main but now its time to be SRS, I don't even like playing meta knight." Its going to happen, I main peach but I know my meta knight has to be just as good or better than my peach or I WONT win at tournaments. There are good players who dont main meta knight, very good players like ADHD and T0mmy who can beat meta knights, but it doesn't happen as often as it should. Its time for a change, ban meta knight, save smash as a FUN competitive game.

 

[etecoon]

the fact is that after EVERY SINGLE major tournament theres buzz on banning meta knight

this is irrelevant because it's the same people that always wanted him banned making the noise. nothing actually changes, barely anyone will change their minds on it at this point.

 

[john!]

MK isn't my main, but he's possibly my best character. I agree that the metagame is starting to center around this character to a worrying extent. I personally have addressed the problem by devoting my attention to an earlier version of Smash Brothers entitled "Melee". Meta Knight is not a problem in "Melee". Neither are Snake or Diddy Kong. They have also hacked the balls off of Brawl and made a bunch of more balanced versions. Take your pick.

 

[Zodiac]

A man after my own heart, I concentrate on melee a LOT more but I would really like brawl better if it wasnt for the blindingly obvious meta knight problem and the fact that I know I will get ***** if I don't pick him up.

 

[HoN3Y64]

Solution: Play another game.

 

[Inaphyt]

Doesn't matter if he's broken or not, he's way too popular let other characters shine for a change.

Everytime you mention banning, someone get's technical goes into advanced politics or tells a story from another fighting game.

It's so obvious that he's broken and it's so obvious how much better the tournament scene would be without him. Even ganon starts to look a little less bad if you remove metaknight.

 

[theunabletable]

Doesn't matter if he's broken or not, he's way too popular let other characters shine for a change.

So we should ban him because you suck and can't beat him like ADHD can?

Everytime you mention banning, someone get's technical goes into advanced politics or tells a story from another fighting game.

So? I don't see what's wrong here in any way.

It's so obvious that he's broken

No it isn't.

and it's so obvious how much better the tournament scene would be without him.

Maybe at a mid level where people suck and can't beat him. But it wouldn't make the top level meta game where MK gets beaten often enough (hell more non-MKs have won big tourneys in the last year than MKs, IIRC) any better.

Competition is about trying to win, why should we cater to the people who won't win?

Even ganon starts to look a little less bad if you remove metaknight.

lolwut? So we should base our metagame off of what makes Ganon, the character FULL of unwinnable matchups (MK isn't as bad of a matchup as Sheik or ICs on FD), a little bit better? Okay, then, FD should be a CP only or banned because it causes 100% unwinnable matchups against Ganon.

A man after my own heart, I concentrate on melee a LOT more but I would really like brawl better if it wasnt for the blindingly obvious meta knight problem and the fact that I know I will get ***** if I don't pick him up.

You'll get ***** no matter who you play because you're not at the top of the meta game.

Having MK banned isn't going to make you magically win.

Anyways, this thread is bad.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

LOL I love watching the brawl commutiy destroy it's self. But at least you guys aren't as bad as the people who want to ban melee puff because she is to easy and gay and blah blah. THere aren't even a crazy amount of puff players. Also look at fox best in melee and most people play with him no bad match-ups and no one ever says he is broken due to the skill and the fact many people know the match-up because everyone plays as him. Really when someone is spamed at hhigh level gameplay their metagame should start to fall because people learn it inside out.

in melee people learned really good ways to chain throw fox/falco people learned how to powersheild lasers. people learn how to get out of the ice climbers grabs and avoid them. people learn great ways to edge gaurd sheik/marth and etc.

 

[etecoon]

Even ganon starts to look a little less bad if you remove metaknight.

I rofled

*character limit*

 

[Lord Viper]

Solution: Play another game.

☆ No helping. >.> ☆

☆ A lot more talk about Meta Knight being banned ever since ADHD made his thread about him not being banned, I think it's kind of funny how it had a reverse effect. >.< ☆

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Honestly, people may read this and think...stfu, however the fact is that after EVERY SINGLE major tournament theres buzz on banning meta knight

So? If I get a bunch of people to say that Ganon should be banned after every tournament, does that mean he should be banned?

and every time, meta knight mains come in with some crap that somehow keeps him a legal character, meta knights are almost ALWAYS the top ranks,

How is it crap? It obviously isn't crap, because if it was, then he'd be banned by now. They obviously have good points if he;s still allowed in tournaments. And it isn't just MK mains. There are a good number of top players that have to play against MKs on a consistent basis that want to keep him in the game.

hell even ally is picking up meta knight now.

Show me a tournament where Ally has had to use MK in order to win.

Take a hint Back room, meta knight needs to be banned,

Why should they listen to you?

not just because he cheap but because every GOOD player has a meta knight in their back pocket.

This is an untrue generalization. Ever seen ADHD use MK?

And if it keeps going like this then we will come to the point where brawl is littered with people going their "main" in round 1 against the smart people (Meta knight mains) and then thinking "guess I better switch over to meta knight now so I can win. I had fun with my main but now its time to be SRS, I don't even like playing meta knight."

It's not going to get to that point. People do not fold that easily, the Smash community is stubborn as hell.

Its going to happen, I main peach but I know my meta knight has to be just as good or better than my peach or I WONT win at tournaments.

And because of this personal example, your opinion must be right.

There are good players who dont main meta knight, very good players like ADHD and T0mmy who can beat meta knights, but it doesn't happen as often as it should.

What? As often as it should? What does that mean? MK is the best character in the game, of course he should be difficult to beat. I don't see a problem with that.

Its time for a change, ban meta knight, save smash as a FUN competitive game.

Personally, I think MK is quite a fun character.


If you're going to post your opinion, at least use evidence like Overswarm did. Reinforce your points with ACTUAL FACTS next time.

 

[llamapaste]

Can people stop arguing about MK? That's what really hurts this game. If you don't like MK that much or are just too lazy to deal with him play a different game. Stop complaining or deal with it.

 

[etecoon]

Show me a tournament where Ally has had to use MK in order to win.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKIxu669Y_A

ban meta knight

 

[MarioMariox2]

Hey, melee kinda has the same theory. With puff having good tourney results, people are wanting to bump her to top and there's a theory where melee matches will be reduced to puff dittos.

 

[UltiMario]

Meta Knight isn't banned because half the Smash Scene is Anti-Ban for one reason or another.

Also, you must realize, there are MK mains out there that play him because they simply like the character himself, not because they switched from an old main to win. The MK problem here, for example, isn't even nearly as bad as Garchomp in Pokemon was long before he was banned.

Also, Ally's MK sucks.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

I laugh every time I see pointless threads like these.

As Vrael said, use facts, or else your claim is nothing more than another attempt at ripping the community apart.

If you're going to complain that Meta Knight is 'gay BAWWWW' or something along such lines, then you might as well quit Brawl.

Again, people making themselves look completely pathetic over a video game, how depressing.

 

[Firus]

Doesn't matter if he's broken or not, he's way too popular let other characters shine for a change.

THAT

is possibly the worst argument I've heard for the banning of Meta Knight.

If you think he's broken, use that.

If you think he's too popular and are upset because he's popular and other characters aren't used enough, then go out there and try and bring about change yourself, don't ban MK because you don't like him/think he's used too much. I find Diddy to be the most obnoxiously noisy character, I want to smash a TV in when someone chaingrabs me with D3; but I don't want to BAN them, I just don't LIKE them. This is a competitive community, things are banned if they are unfair.

In response to the general argument, I present to you the thing that made me anti-ban:

http://www.smashboards.com/news/blogs/37055/771/crushing-the-competitive-spirit

That wonderful blog by Jam Stunna makes a very good point in that the Melee community never banned the difficult characters; people found ways to counter them. The entire blog is a great read, but here's the most relevant passage:

There's no way to quantify these effects on the community, but I think that there is more than enough anecdotal evidence to support my theory that an easier game has led to a more complacent and less competitive community.

The biggest example of this is the "Ban Metaknight" debate. Is Metaknight gay? Yes. Is he gayer than Melee's Sheik or Fox? That's debatable. Is he unbeatable? Yes. But everything else has been handed to Brawl players, so why not just hand them a ban? "It's too hard to fight MK", they whine. He has no counters. He has no bad stages. He's the best character. Well, last time I checked, the same things were true for Fox and Sheik in Melee, and there was no mass movement to ban them. It used to be that our community was invigorated by challenges, and that was what pushed the metagame to heights that no one would have dreamed of in 2004.

Meta Knight hasn't been banned yet because not everybody agrees with you/wants to ban a character just because it's hard to beat them.

[joke]I should probably also inform you that when I play 'Super Smash Bros Brawl', I went to training mode, I play as Ike, and I faced off against Metaknight as an Lv.9 AI to test Metaknight's moves in training mode. What I discovered Metaknight's technique, is that when I play as Ike, I got out, then I respawn and knock Metaknight out, then Metaknight respawn and I got out again, then I respawn and knock Metaknight out again, until I got great advantage to knock Metaknight out twice within being stayed alive.

So the conclusion is, Metaknight should not be banned, because I test him while I play as Ike and I have no problems with Metaknight.

Remember that Metaknight gets knocked out by any of the characters(like Ike), because if you read 'Super Smash Bros Brawl Guide: Premiere Edition' by 'PrimaGames', they will tell you about 'Fight against Metaknight' in the 'Character Guide' Section.[/joke]

Spoiler

[/Maxfire copypasta]

Besides, this has been argued ad nauseam and the only thing that gets accomplished is that every time a larger flame war starts.

 

[Teran]

I could never win as Meta Knight, his horizontal airspeed leaves much to be desired.

His attacks are great but his movement feels weird so see, my personal example states that Meta Knight sucks. He doesn't, of course, but in my hands he does.

I play Falco, who does have a handful of unspectacular matchups but I'm fine with it. Funnily enough he goes even with Meta Knight. Meta Knight is great, but it's funny how he doesn't even win huge tournaments and people still want him banned.

Nice logic. Out of 100+ competitive players, Meta Knight doesn't come out top, when apparently every pro is using him,

Get a new cause, like banning Brawl +.

 

[AllyKnight]

My mk is fine, he can beat Lain's ICS and top players WITHOUT Tornado. If I did use tornado.... hehe

 

[etecoon]

Get a new cause, like banning Brawl +.

this is something we can all get behind

 

[Firus]

I could never win as Meta Knight, his horizontal airspeed leaves much to be desired.

This.

I liked Meta Knight before the game even came out and wanted to have him as one of my mains (granted, I wanted to have like, 14, but that's irrelevant). I was so bad with him that I eventually stopped trying.

 

[Mr.Freeman]

Link to original post: [drupal=3030]Why hasnt meta knight been banned yet?[/drupal]



Honestly, people may read this and think...stfu, however the fact is that after EVERY SINGLE major tournament theres buzz on banning meta knight and every time, meta knight mains come in with some crap that somehow keeps him a legal character, meta knights are almost ALWAYS the top ranks,hell even ally is picking up meta knight now. Take a hint Back room, meta knight needs to be banned, not just because he cheap but because every GOOD player has a meta knight in their back pocket. And if it keeps going like this then we will come to the point where brawl is littered with people going their "main" in round 1 against the smart people (Meta knight mains) and then thinking "guess I better switch over to meta knight now so I can win. I had fun with my main but now its time to be SRS, I don't even like playing meta knight." Its going to happen, I main peach but I know my meta knight has to be just as good or better than my peach or I WONT win at tournaments. There are good players who dont main meta knight, very good players like ADHD and T0mmy who can beat meta knights, but it doesn't happen as often as it should. Its time for a change, ban meta knight, save smash as a FUN competitive game.

 

[mountain_tiger]

See, that's one of the reasons I dislike children. Their crying is so depressing...

On topic, I don't believe that MK should be banned because:

a) He isn't unbeatable

b) Other characters have been capable of winning large scale tournies.

c) It would be a massive middle finger to all those people who spent ages trying to get better with him in tournies, no?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Has anyone ever played kirby air ride ? I have simplely picked MK on the game when to pee came back and it said I won It's a racing game WTF? My brother had to once the fastest star in the game to beat handless MK and I barly lost to his handed one when I made really no mistakes and he crashed into every other wall. He reachs top speed in 1/2 a sec, auto stabs people, his top speed is higher than than most peoples easily, 3rd best at flying, and has way to good stiring.

The only case where MK should truely be banned in my book also if you know what you are doing as him you can't lose. don't hit walls and stab anything kirby can suck off up and you basically win.





MK shouldn't be banned really you whinny brawlers I play as pichu and the only johns I ever have are the following: I wish I could use the C-stick to DI for everything and not take self-damage and Pichu's sweetspot is smaller than his head anyone esle would have sweetspoted and it leads to many SDs.

Really All the brawl should play as bottom teirs from melee and then fight a sheik that's more broken than anything esle you will see in your life, but I still don't john in fact I was mad when a sheik used down-B that's an uber low taunt

 

[Apollo$]

Main metaknight, but seriously meta is not undefeatable.

 

[Night-san]

Kirby Air Ride is one of the best GCN games. EVAR.
Lmfao Freeman, for some reason that made my day.

I don't think MK should be banned. I enjoy having challenges to overcome as a community, and one of the biggies for the non MKs is developing a good MK counter with their main, as it's already been said. Victory's sweet, but it's even sweeter when it's when it's harder to pull off.

Plus, I find MK fun to play, though I don't use him outside of friendlies. I'm sure many of those who main him will agree.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Hey, melee kinda has the same theory. With puff having good tourney results, people are wanting to bump her to top and there's a theory where melee matches will be reduced to puff dittos.

Except not. There are two really good players that play Puff, Hungrybox and Mango. Puff is not dominant like MK is. Mango and Hbox have great tourney results, but you never see Puffs getting over half of the top 8 spots in tournaments.

I laugh every time I see pointless threads like these.

As Vrael said, use facts, or else your claim is nothing more than another attempt at ripping the community apart.

Oh look, Omnicron actually agreed with me about something.

 

[Mr.Freeman]

Although I'm neutral about MK being banned, this is why some might think that all of the pro-ban side are a bunch of whiners.

THERE IS A GODDAM MK DISCUSSION THREAD. Go post your rants their. (this goes to ALL the johns who say MK should be banned but don't have info to back it up)

 

[Lord Viper]

Has anyone ever played kirby air ride ? I have simplely picked MK on the game when to pee came back and it said I won It's a racing game WTF? My brother had to once the fastest star in the game to beat handless MK and I barly lost to his handed one when I made really no mistakes and he crashed into every other wall. He reachs top speed in 1/2 a sec, auto stabs people, his top speed is higher than than most peoples easily, 3rd best at flying, and has way to good stiring.

The only case where MK should truely be banned in my book also if you know what you are doing as him you can't lose. don't hit walls and stab anything kirby can suck off up and you basically win.

☆ Which Star your brother had? Swerve Star, Wagon Star, Slick Star, or Rex Wheelie? Those are the machines I just listed are the one's that can beat Meta Knight without powers, but yea, Meta Knight is pretty good in Air Ride while King Dedede is crap, but not as crappy as the Rocket Star or the Bulk Star in terms of racing. ^_^; ☆

Kirby Air Ride is one of the best GCN games. EVAR.

☆ *joy joy joy joy* =D ☆

 

[Zodiac]

Wow...And here I was just venting >.> Everyone getting pretty worked about his, Honestly, This thread looks the like the general brawl discussion from 2008.

 

[john!]

lol Swerve Star was so broken my friends and I banned it because it was waaay too good.

But yeah, comparisons to Melee are not valid because:

- Puff is not dominating the mid level of play
- Melee took 8 years for Puff to reach the top and is still changing

...whereas MK dominates all levels of play, except for ADHD who (I presume) knows the matchup like the back of his hand.

 

[Inaphyt]

So we should ban him because you suck and can't beat him like ADHD can? So? I don't see what's wrong here in any way. No it isn't. Maybe at a mid level where people suck and can't beat him. But it wouldn't make the top level meta game where MK gets beaten often enough (hell more non-MKs have won big tourneys in the last year than MKs, IIRC) any better.

Competition is about trying to win, why should we cater to the people who won't win? lolwut? So we should base our metagame off of what makes Ganon, the character FULL of unwinnable matchups (MK isn't as bad of a matchup as Sheik or ICs on FD), a little bit better? Okay, then, FD should be a CP only or banned because it causes 100% unwinnable matchups against Ganon. You'll get ***** no matter who you play because you're not at the top of the meta game.

Having MK banned isn't going to make you magically win.

Anyways, this thread is bad.

It's so obvious he's broken can you not SEE that? Go and look at the tournament results, in the top 8 you will find metaknight 4 to 5 times average, in which tournament? Any. The same can't be said about any other character other characters lack consistency in beating metaknights, and when adhd starts losing to mk constantly and switches to metaknight like ally did you may wish that the ban was in place afteral. Ally switched from the second best character in the game to the first, that's how crucial the leap is. Metaknight is GOD tier as any game programmer will tell you this is the last thing you want in your game.

His recovery is broken entirely basically removing the need for a platform type game, getting sent out of stage perimeters is comparable to your hp reaching 0, there is practically no time ever meta isn't getting back to the stage, he cannot be edge guarded granted meta is light, but because of his attacks being light accounts for nothing and will still live longer than any other character.

The tournament scene would flourish without him, watching the pros with a plethora of characters furthering different metagames rather than furthering the best character in the game to the point of unbeatable which will happen would be balanced and varied rather than watching the boring mk all day.

It Will make tournaments more exciting, and MORE enjoyable, also someone said about why is talking of science bad? I'll tell you why this isn't science this is a game that involves plenty of people, people are not gigabytes it should be the overall opinion and happiness of the community that decides the games laws and not cold hard facts.

It's plain to see that metaknight is hated by alot of players whether they attend tournies or not, this shows that even outside tourny play elements of brokeness have been found in mk.
I think alot more people would enjoy mk gone than mk staying, there's probably only a handle of people that actually care if mk stays, and if he's banned they will pick up new characters, rather than the hundreds of people put off brawl because mk isn't banned.

It's so blindingly obvious that playing as mk is UNFAIR and if you disagree with that you are blind.(ingly)

 

[Mr.Freeman]

Wow...And here I was just venting >.> Everyone getting pretty worked about his, Honestly, This thread looks the like the general brawl discussion from 2008.

You were venting? There's a thread for that too, man.

Here's some advice: don't make another MK thread about him being banned or anything like that. More flame warz start.

But, then again, this IS the internet..

 

[Jam Stunna]

Get a new cause, like banning Brawl +.

I want a divorce

 

[Zodiac]

You were venting? There's a thread for that too, man.

Here's some advice: don't make another MK thread about him being banned or anything like that. More flame warz start.

But, then again, this IS the internet..

Thats utterly ********, smashboards isn't about, "lets all get along and agree on everything" Smashboards is for a plethora of smash related things, debate among them. If myself or anyone else for the matter wants to make a thread stating how broken meta knight is or that brawl/melee sucks or whatever they want then they can do it if they ****ing want to.

lol Swerve Star was so broken my friends and I banned it because it was waaay too good.

But yeah, comparisons to Melee are not valid because:

- Puff is not dominating the mid level of play
- Melee took 8 years for Puff to reach the top and is still changing

...whereas MK dominates all levels of play, except for ADHD who (I presume) knows the matchup like the back of his hand.

and the fact that all the high tiers and even some the low tiers can ALL **** each other given the right player.

Peach can chain throw fox - Fox can usmash peach to kill at low percents

Marth can chain throw fox , has range - Fox has inferior range, cant chain throw, u-smash and waveshines.

I could on and on...

jiggly puff Good spacing is VERY hard to get by - Marth has a long sword to **** her with, Fox can do several things that kill her early, so can peach, so can falco, so can shiek.

My point being the quote is right, you can compare the two games current meta game because meta knight is infinitely more broken than jiggly puff ever will be, and plus after eight years we would have banned someone who was that broken, hell we would have done it after two years.

 

[Heartstring]

he hasn't been banned because, despite the apparent superiority that meta knight has, there ARE people whihc thrive against meta knight opposed to other higher characters. for example, i personally (although i play nowhere near the top level) play reasonably well against meta knight user's, the way i use ike apparently works well against meta knight, however i am utterly useless against any diddy kong i may face, even my little brother can go close with me using diddy kong and he just sorta throw the banana's about randomly. also i tend to do badly against fox, but very well against marth, i dont know why, but i just do.
this is the same for other people, catch is most people have trouble with meta knight

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

and the fact that all the high tiers and even some the low tiers can ALL **** each other given the right player.

Peach can chain throw fox - Fox can usmash peach to kill at low percents

Marth can chain throw fox , has range - Fox has inferior range, cant chain throw, u-smash and waveshines.

I could on and on...

jiggly puff Good spacing is VERY hard to get by - Marth has a long sword to **** her with, Fox can do several things that kill her early, so can peach, so can falco, so can shiek.

My point being the quote is right, you can compare the two games current meta game because meta knight is infinitely more broken than jiggly puff ever will be, and plus after eight years we would have banned someone who was that broken, hell we would have done it after two years.

It also doesn't help that Fox is very difficult to use at his best, compared to MK who is much easier to use at his best.

 

[theunabletable]

It's so obvious he's broken can you not SEE that?

The sky is so obviously yellow can you not SEE that?

Go and look at the tournament results, in the top 8 you will find metaknight 4 to 5 times average, in which tournament? Any.

So?

and when adhd starts losing to mk constantly and switches to metaknight like ally did you may wish that the ban was in place afteral.

Ally doesn't main MK, he still mains Snake.

And we don't know that will happen.

The tournament scene would flourish without him, watching the pros with a plethora of characters furthering different metagames rather than furthering the best character in the game to the point of unbeatable which will happen would be balanced and varied rather than watching the boring mk all day.

Maybe the mid-levels where people aren't good enough to win without MK, anyways.

Are you saying that we cater to the bads because they aren't good enough to beat MK?

ADHD, Ally, and Larry can beat MKs. They are the top level. They are the ones who competition matters to.

It's plain to see that metaknight is hated by alot of players whether they attend tournies or not, this shows that even outside tourny play elements of brokeness have been found in mk.

Appeal to the people/popularity, a logical fallacy.

It's so blindingly obvious that playing as mk is UNFAIR and if you disagree with that you are blind.(ingly)

That's ad hominem, a logical fallacy.

 

[Inaphyt]

Ok then i'll ask you, pleasant man. Why are you so adamant mk isn't broken? Even the cold hard facts point to this. Why would it be the end of the world if he was banned? (Why would it be the end of the world if he wasn't blah blah blah yes i catch on quick troll).

Mk trashes top tier characters 99% of the time, i'm not even talking about low tiers-(now i am>). Mk gone increases the viability of alot of characters that stand slightly more of a chance against the top tiers than against mk that shuts them down this would make for more interesting tournaments and other characters rising to a point that if mk was returned from the ban after say 6 months they may of learnt to deal with him better (from getting confidence at doing better in tournies)

 

[john!]

Logical fallacies are only really bad if you're trying to prove something deductively. Since we can't "prove" that MK should or should not be banned, we are taking a subjective "inductive" approach. What are considered fallacies can still be useful.

Ad hominems are never good, but ad populem works this time because this decision is supposed to benefit the community, and their opinion is extremely relevant, whether it is "right" or not.

Just commenting because I see "logical fallacy" tossed around a lot by people who really don't know when it should/shouldn't be called out.

Carry on...