Why DON'T you want Erdrick in Smash?

[fogbadge]

because i have no interest in the dragon quest series and would rather get a character i know and love

 

[Lacrimosa]

I may not like Dragon Quest (uff, this franchise :<) and not know Erdrick but that wouldn't lead me to say I don't want him in Smash.
I guess the most common reply is that he will be most likely a swordfighter. And I guess there are different playstyles with each of the swordie (Ike play different than Lucina, than Roy, than Cloud).
But visually, it wouldn't be very appealing. Just visually. Disjoint is something a lot of characters have (Olimar for example).

I'd rather like to see someone like Ephraim from Fire Emblem. Yes, FE character, but his weapon would be a lance which is something that looks different than a sword but would still be a huge disjoint, maybe like the Belmont's whip (huge range).
I guess I would be fine with another RPG protagonist if his/her weapon is not a sword. I just want to see a different weapon featured, like whips, lances, axes, maybe even something more unconventional like claws, nunchakus or if we go back to Dragon Quest, weapons like folding fans.

 

[ZelDan]

Eh, I'm indifferent to him or any DQ inclusion.

I have minimal experience with the franchise, only playing the 3DS versions of DQVII and DQVIII, which were decent and enjoyable enough games but nothing that really wowed me personally. That said I could still kinda appreciate a DQ character being made playable just for the idea of Smash being able to get a series as large and important as DQ is. I could like it for the same reason I liked Pac-Man's inclusion in Smash 4, despite not being a huge fan of Pac-man.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'm personally indifferent to the franchise as well as the character himself.
Dragon Quest is a franchise that would have most likely been put into Smash sooner or later anyway.

 

[andree123]

Erdrick is one of the characters that I predicted because he was leaked by tansut (the guy who leaked cloud in ssb4) and Verg earlier, if he's not going to be smash I have reasons why I don't want him in smash.

1. He and the franchise doesn't appeal well to the west.
2. He gets over Slime (the mascot of Dragon Quest), a FF rep, and Geno and that could had sold well if one of these fighters get in if Erdrick never becomes a playable at all.
3. He's just another swordsman, even Sakurai stated that he wanted to work on a Axe fighter instead of a Sword fighter (besides being a joke) during development of the fighters pass.

 

[Calamitas]

For me it comes down mostly to the fact that his inclusion would not bode particularly well for my own most wanted, who I obviously far prioritize. If Erdrick were to make it in after my most wanted was confirmed, then I'd just shrug and accept him. By his own merits though, Erdrick just doesn't seem all that appealing to me - everything I ever saw and heard about Dragon Quest makes it look extremely generic to me, and I'm not the biggest fan of Akira Toriyama's art style.

Oh yeah, and one more thing I forgot: The fact that Erdrick is third-party. I'm really not a big fan of the idea of getting any more third-parties.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh yeah, and one more thing I forgot: The fact that Erdrick is third-party. I'm really not a big fan of the idea of getting any more third-parties.

Killjoy.

 

[Wiinner159]

I just don't like the idea of leakers being right. Simple as that really. Even as a huge Castlevania fan I hated it when the Simon and Richter announcement proved some dumb popular leak correct Just kinda spoils the fun of speculation when it devolves into "oh this character is gonna get in because this guy said so and he's telling the truth because he's clearly an insider you guys"

 

[GoodGrief741]

I just don't like the idea of leakers being right. Simple as that really. Even as a huge Castlevania fan I hated it when the Simon and Richter announcement proved some dumb popular leak correct Just kinda spoils the fun of speculation when it devolves into "oh this character is gonna get in because this guy said so and he's telling the truth because he's clearly an insider you guys"

So you value the surprise more than a character you like getting in?

 

[Wiinner159]

So you value the surprise more than a character you like getting in?

I'd say so yeah, probably helps at this point that the character I wanted in the game for so long is already in so it makes me less concerned over who gets in and more on the surprise of what Nintendo/Sakurai's giving us. Like don't get me wrong, I enjoy the idea of a character I like getting in and some leak won't stop me from being happy about it but I always get a bit grumpy I suppose when I find out because some random guy on the internet said so

 

[FooltheFlames]

Am I the only one here who prefers SLIME ???

 

[Deleted member]

DQ is one of my favourite videogame franchises.

I’ll accept any rep as long as the series is in Smash, including Erdrick.

 

[Perkilator]

He was never even a blip on anyone's radar until the whole Brave datamine and Veggieboy "leaking" him. Now suddenly all these Erdrick "fans" just come crawling out of the woodwork acting like we should have gotten a Dragon Quest character forever ago. I mean yeah Dragon Quest is loved in Japan and all that but Erdrick really has become the biggest posterboy of bandwagoned circlejerked characters, to the point where people treat him as an inevitability. It's just suspicious how a character who basically never existed in any Smash speculation ever suddenly becomes Jesus overnight. Like it really get's my noggin joggin.

This sums up my feelings pretty well.

Then again, I'm admittedly pretty biased to wanting Sora in first.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

I love seeing so many people say "Erdrick wasn't talked about until he was leaked" as some sort of point against him because the same could be said for a lot of characters, especially flavor of the month ones like Isaac, Sora, Banjo or Bandana Dee. Just because they arent as obnoxiously vocal like the ones I just listed doesnt mean they were never looking forward to Erdrick's possible inclusion.

I always wanted Joker but I saw him as slightly unlikely so I kept quiet about him. About a month later he was revealed to be the first DLC character

People were hyped about Dark Samus and Chrom when they realized their palettes were gone and Sakurai introduced Echo Fighters

Shadow was talked about more and more when his Assist Trophy wasn't shown RIP by the way

 

[GoodGrief741]

I love seeing so many people say "Erdrick wasn't talked about until he was leaked" as some sort of point against him because the same could be said for a lot of characters, especially flavor of the month ones like Isaac, Sora, Banjo or Bandana Dee. Just because they arent as obnoxiously vocal like the ones I just listed doesnt mean they were never looking forward to Erdrick's possible inclusion.

I always wanted Joker but I saw him as slightly unlikely so I kept quiet about him. About a month later he was revealed to be the first DLC character

People were hyped about Dark Samus and Chrom when they realized their palettes were gone and Sakurai introduced Echo Fighters

Shadow was talked about more and more when his Assist Trophy wasn't shown RIP by the way

I wonder in what universe Isaac, Sora, Banjo and Bandana Dee are flavor of the month picks.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I love seeing so many people say "Erdrick wasn't talked about until he was leaked" as some sort of point against him because the same could be said for a lot of characters, especially flavor of the month ones like Isaac, Sora, Banjo or Bandana Dee. Just because they arent as obnoxiously vocal like the ones I just listed doesnt mean they were never looking forward to Erdrick's possible inclusion.

I always wanted Joker but I saw him as slightly unlikely so I kept quiet about him. About a month later he was revealed to be the first DLC character

People were hyped about Dark Samus and Chrom when they realized their palettes were gone and Sakurai introduced Echo Fighters

Shadow was talked about more and more when his Assist Trophy wasn't shown RIP by the way

Dark Samus and Chrom were talked about before the palettes were removed. Many dismissed Dark Samus cause "too many Samuses", which I was one of those. I regret saying that.

Isaac, Sora, Banjo, they have been heavily requested for a while now. Erdrick actually is closer to a flavor of the month pick. He had a very tiny amount of talk before the leaks, which is what actually got him major attention.

Joker didn't get much talk either, but it's not like he's unknown in one part of the world. He's no icon, of course.

Shadow has been requested a super long time as is. Cause it's Shadow. It also helps that everyone but Erdrick are known worldwide, so of course websites that aren't mainly Japanese oriented aren't going to talk about Erdrick much. Many people didn't know he existed.

-------------------

Oh, right, my views. I think worldwide appeal is important too. Mainly for DLC. I'd prefer Slime or a more known hero like DQ1's, Luminary, or Eight. If only as the main face of it so people are more interested. Erdrick is a virtual unknown in 2/3rds of the world, and I don't think that's a good idea for DLC. He absolutely should be a skin if they go for that route, and he is honestly a deserving character. But I'd vastly prefer others as the face or main overall pick.

But I do grow up with DQ1, 2, and the first two(well three technically, as I didn't play Tara's Adventure) Dragon Quest Monster games, so Erdrick isn't super known to me beyond a weapon and armor name. Not that I don't respect the character, I really do. But I want the DLC to sell and make Dragon Quest more recognizable worldwide. I don't any risks here. It already is too unknown by people in the West. And it shouldn't be virtually unknown to more than maybe 10% at best. I mean, it's niche to some degree, but it feels like it borderlines on obscure at times. I'm very thankful they're doing way better advertising now, though.

 

[PhantomShab]

I love seeing so many people say "Erdrick wasn't talked about until he was leaked"

Well he wasn't.

as some sort of point against him because the same could be said for a lot of characters, especially flavor of the month ones like Isaac, Sora, Banjo or Bandana Dee.

The hell are you talking about? All of those characters except Sora had big support bases even back in Smash 4. Are you living in a different reality or something?

 

[MangoTwist]

I love seeing so many people say "Erdrick wasn't talked about until he was leaked" as some sort of point against him because the same could be said for a lot of characters, especially flavor of the month ones like Isaac, Sora, Banjo or Bandana Dee. Just because they arent as obnoxiously vocal like the ones I just listed doesnt mean they were never looking forward to Erdrick's possible inclusion.

This is just wrong. All of the above were supported by lots of people for years even without being included in a single credible "leak." I had heard of them by means of natural outcry in the lead up to Smash 4 and Ultimate. I had never heard of Erdrick before Verge and "Brave" started to point to him.

 

[Koopaul]

I don't hate Erdrick, but he seems like a boring inclusion, especially right after we just got Joker.

To be honest I knew more about Erdrick than Joker. Never played a single Persona game. Guess it's all a matter of perspective.

 

[Deleted member]

Am I the only one here who prefers SLIME ???

View attachment 225033

My brother actually prefers Slime and he's the bigger DQ fan between us lol. It'd be cute, especially if they go all out by referencing some of the spinoffs. Like bring in the bloody tank for the final smash.

 

[ZelDan]

Eh, I wouldn't really use the "only talked about after leakers' part against Erdrick. Perhaps there were people that wanted him in the game but just didn't bother since they think he didn't have much chance, but then hearing prominent leakers bring him up gave these people actual hope. or maybe for some people didn't really think of Erdrick when it came to coming to Smash, but once the idea came up from leakers, they really liked the idea; one of those "why didn't I think of that!?" sort of deals. Whatever the case, I'm sure a good amount of the Erdrick supporters are genuine, and their support shouldn't just be tossed in the trash because it came later than support for other characters.

I'll say that I'm someone that didn't really put much thought or serious consideration for characters like Cloud and Bayonetta getting into Smash, but I was excited as hell when they were revealed.

 

[Izanagi97]

Combination of several things

• Me being worried about amount of DQ content repped because this is SE we're talking about. $6 (or 1/5 of what you spent on the pass) for minimal representation sounds like a **** deal to me
• As mentioned in this thread, I don't think I've heard anyone talk about Erdrick (except people who were big DQ fans) until after some prominent leakers started talking about it (I think before then, people were talking about either Slime, the mascot, or the Luminary, the DQ11 protag who's game is coming to Switch). I still remember that one post that showed that search results for Erdrick went from 150-200 hits to around 8,200 hits in the span of a day (the same day his name started being reported by leakers)
• I'm still convinced that Erdrick is on the list of leak bait characters

 

[PsychoJosh]

Erdrick and Joker represent to me a cancer that is killing Smash. I don't care about what game he's from or who designed him, I care more about the fact that Smash has forgotten about fun for the sake of popularity.

Smash's head has disappeared up its own ass because it has hyped itself up to unwarranted levels of self importance. It thinks of itself as the most important game of all games and that getting into Smash is a PRESTIGIOUS and SUPER IMPORTANT event that every game developer would give their left arm to be in. And the worst part is that this is completely undermined by nobody characters who contribute nothing particularly interesting or unique to gameplay and are just there because they're "popular". Joker is the ur-example of this: he was hyped up ever since December as being representative of what kinds of characters to expect in the Smash DLC, and then he came out, and my initial assessment of him turned out to be right. He is completely banal and uninteresting in EVERY respect - he doesn't bring anything unique to the table and his design in of itself is super bland. He has Bayonetta's guns, he has Robin's fireball, and he has Isabelle's fishing hook, except it shoots upwards. And to top it all off he has a variant of Cloud's limit break mechanic. WOW! This is really the character they made us anticipate for months. Joker is the worst, because he proves that you don't have to be a fun, good, unique character to get into Smash - having a spirit of fun is no longer a consideration. All that matters is that you have a modicum of popularity.

You may not agree with me that his design is as uninteresting as I made it out to be. But that doesn't matter - he got in because his game is popular in Japan. So Erdrick, if he gets in, is going to be the same thing. Newcomer that just gets in because he's popular, and that's all - whether or not he turns out to be fun or unique is completely moot. Being a fun and unique character is of secondary importance if it has ANY importance at all because the first thing that's important is this "cult of personality" stupidity where having a sort of celebrity status matters more than being a quality character. So instead of additions that are added in the spirit of fun (just as an example, say, F-Type, or Bub and Bob from Bubble Bobble, who easily lend themselves to unique gameplay and have way more interesting designs), we get another sword character who might as well be from the same game as the dozen other sword characters that are in the game already. But maybe, he shoots TWO fireballs! Or maybe he shoots TWO arrows instead of one! Who cares, what matters is not how he plays, but rather how popular he is in one region. I could be wrong about Erdrick, but I strongly doubt I will be. Just judging from his appearance and my knowledge of the game he's from (basically being THE textbook JRPG from which all others draw their gameplay inspiration), he will bring absolutely nothing new to the table. Just like my assessment of Joker being completely bland and uninteresting turned out to be right, I'm predicting the same thing for Erdrick. If I'm wrong and he turns out to be unique and fun, good! But if not, oh well, it doesn't matter, because he's popular and that's what matters. And therein lies the problem. Erdrick's design does not lend itself well to a unique or fun moveset. Characters designed in the spirit of fun - I.E. ones who are vastly different from each other in silhouette and function - should be the priority. The wacky and outlandish characters are the ones that make these games enjoyable. Not characters like Joker and Erdrick who are made exclusively to pander to a disjointed fanbase.

This is just one of many reasons Smash is acidic. It's basically run itself into a corner. Just because a character is popular doesn't mean they're good. I think that maybe the decisons as to who gets in Smash SHOULDN'T be made by fans. It should be made by people who care more about the quality of the game's life and haven't lost sight of why people play these games. So, in other words, not Sakurai.

 

[SirCamp]

So couple things. People absolutely did talk about and want DQ representation prior to the leak. I know I did. It wasn't much and I didn't actively participate a ton because I didn't think it was overly likely given DQ's nigh irrelevance in the West. But I truly have always thought the series deserving. Though I understand why it might look bandwagon-y.

Having said that I too would personally prefer Slime as a character. Slime would likely make for a more interesting character and is also more marketable in the West I would think. Certainly more recognizable as it stands. However, I'll personally be pleased with any DQ character's inclusion.

The other topic I wanted to touch on is that I'm seeing a lot of people talking about how they don't recognize or care about the character as if that should be reason enough for a different character to be chosen. Now, I'm not Sakurai and I don't personally now the team's criteria for choosing characters, but let's be real, neither do any of us. And ultimately character choices are not about you. Just as much as they are not about me. And it's interesting to me how people seem to be unable to look past their own biases and recognize that a character/franchise like Erdrick/DQ has pretty irrefutable merits, regardless of whether they personally care about or have a connection to them. If you've played any JRPGs, then the Dragon Quest series has affected your gaming life. Period.

Now that doesn't mean the character definitely should be included. Like I said I don't know how characters get decided on. But can we not pretend like this is an entirely ridiculous, meritless character choice even if only in theory?

I mean it's very similar to Steve. I have not played Minecraft and I don't really care about Steve as a character at all. But still, I can recognize that Minecraft/Steve is a reasonable franchise/character to include in a game like Smash. Minecraft is very important, they could do interesting things with the character, people like him. Me not caring about him or having a connection to him takes none of that away. I personally would much prefer Banjo to be included, but guess what? Like I said before it's not about me personally. We all want things, and we are all going to be disappointed when we don't get what we want. In Smash or otherwise. But that's not a reason to dismiss what other people want/enjoy simply because you don't get yours and it's certainly not a reason to badmouth those people or those things (in this case characters). It's entirely unnecessary.

So I guess all of that was just to say let people enjoy things. It's really not that serious.

 

[Lamperouge]

I've never played a Dragon Quest game before so I'm indifferent to his possible inclusion.

 

[Perkilator]

Erdrick and Joker represent to me a cancer that is killing Smash. I don't care about what game he's from or who designed him, I care more about the fact that Smash has forgotten about fun for the sake of popularity.

Smash's head has disappeared up its own *** because it has hyped itself up to unwarranted levels of self importance. It thinks of itself as the most important game of all games and that getting into Smash is a PRESTIGIOUS and SUPER IMPORTANT event that every game developer would give their left arm to be in. And the worst part is that this is completely undermined by nobody characters who contribute nothing particularly interesting or unique to gameplay and are just there because they're "popular". Joker is the ur-example of this: he was hyped up ever since December as being representative of what kinds of characters to expect in the Smash DLC, and then he came out, and my initial assessment of him turned out to be right. He is completely banal and uninteresting in EVERY respect - he doesn't bring anything unique to the table and his design in of itself is super bland. He has Bayonetta's guns, he has Robin's fireball, and he has Isabelle's fishing hook, except it shoots upwards. And to top it all off he has a variant of Cloud's limit break mechanic. WOW! This is really the character they made us anticipate for months. Joker is the worst, because he proves that you don't have to be a fun, good, unique character to get into Smash - having a spirit of fun is no longer a consideration. All that matters is that you have a modicum of popularity.

You may not agree with me that his design is as uninteresting as I made it out to be. But that doesn't matter - he got in because his game is popular in Japan. So Erdrick, if he gets in, is going to be the same thing. Newcomer that just gets in because he's popular, and that's all - whether or not he turns out to be fun or unique is completely moot. Being a fun and unique character is of secondary importance if it has ANY importance at all because the first thing that's important is this "cult of personality" stupidity where having a sort of celebrity status matters more than being a quality character. So instead of additions that are added in the spirit of fun (just as an example, say, F-Type, or Bub and Bob from Bubble Bobble, who easily lend themselves to unique gameplay and have way more interesting designs), we get another sword character who might as well be from the same game as the dozen other sword characters that are in the game already. But maybe, he shoots TWO fireballs! Or maybe he shoots TWO arrows instead of one! Who cares, what matters is not how he plays, but rather how popular he is in one region. I could be wrong about Erdrick, but I strongly doubt I will be. Just judging from his appearance and my knowledge of the game he's from (basically being THE textbook JRPG from which all others draw their gameplay inspiration), he will bring absolutely nothing new to the table. Just like my assessment of Joker being completely bland and uninteresting turned out to be right, I'm predicting the same thing for Erdrick. If I'm wrong and he turns out to be unique and fun, good! But if not, oh well, it doesn't matter, because he's popular and that's what matters. And therein lies the problem. Erdrick's design does not lend itself well to a unique or fun moveset. Characters designed in the spirit of fun - I.E. ones who are vastly different from each other in silhouette and function - should be the priority. The wacky and outlandish characters are the ones that make these games enjoyable. Not characters like Joker and Erdrick who are made exclusively to pander to a disjointed fanbase.

This is just one of many reasons Smash is acidic. It's basically run itself into a corner. Just because a character is popular doesn't mean they're good. I think that maybe the decisons as to who gets in Smash SHOULDN'T be made by fans. It should be made by people who care more about the quality of the game's life and haven't lost sight of why people play these games. So, in other words, not Sakurai.

I think you're talking your assessment way too seriously. Joker is still WAY different from the characters you mentioned.

Since when can Bayonetta move around packing heat? Since when can Isabelle grab on to ledges with her fishing hook? Since wheb can Elfire rack up damage over time? Since when is Cloud's Limit Break something other than a one-time use, let alone something that follows Palutena's and K. Rool's model for countering? Or protect him from combo attacks? Or deflect projectiles in its base form by releasing the button?

I understand your argument, but even Sakurai knows that popularity isn't solely what matters. Surely he wouldn't go through all that legal hassle just to get-in your words, not mine-a modicum of popularity, because knowing Sqaure Enix, it won't be worth it if there isn't even any music.

 

[Rikarte]

While I would rather see Slime or Geno getting the Square slot I'd be more than fine with Erdrick getting in. He's an important character from an important franchise.
What bothers me the most is how literally everyone and their grandma is expecting him at this point. Newcommer speculation is always the most fun part for me when it comes to Smash and him being "leaked" this early by so many insiders has removed so much enjoyment from that. :/

 

[AngrySun88]

I love seeing so many people say "Erdrick wasn't talked about until he was leaked" as some sort of point against him because the same could be said for a lot of characters, especially flavor of the month ones like Isaac, Sora, Banjo or Bandana Dee. Just because they arent as obnoxiously vocal like the ones I just listed doesnt mean they were never looking forward to Erdrick's possible inclusion.

I always wanted Joker but I saw him as slightly unlikely so I kept quiet about him. About a month later he was revealed to be the first DLC character

People were hyped about Dark Samus and Chrom when they realized their palettes were gone and Sakurai introduced Echo Fighters

Shadow was talked about more and more when his Assist Trophy wasn't shown RIP by the way

Stop right there.

It's flat out wrong to say that characters like Banjo (who has been requested by fans since before Melee), Issac, and Sora are "flavor of the month" characters, especially when these characters consistently top fan polls.

Whereas I and many other people haven't even heard of Erdrick until Vergeben started his rumors about him. Now everyone not only is talking about him, they're expecting him despite having no concrete proof.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I think you're talking your assessment way too seriously. Joker is still WAY different from the characters you mentioned.

Since when can Bayonetta move around packing heat? Since when can Isabelle grab on to ledges with her fishing hook? Since wheb can Elfire rack up damage over time? Since when is Cloud's Limit Break something other than a one-time use, let alone something that follows Palutena's and K. Rool's model for countering?

I understand your argument, but even Sakurai knows that popularity isn't solely what matters. Surely he wouldn't go through all that legal hassle just to get-in your words, not mine-a modicum of popularity, because knowing Sqaure Enix, it won't be worth it if there isn't even any music.

I... wow. Have you even played this game for ONE second? I'm wondering if you've even bothered to check if your claims could be disproven within seconds of booting the game up:

I guess I'm just imagining Isabelle using the fishing rod as a tether grab. Likewise I'm imagining Bayonetta's B special as well as her ability to cancel any of her jabs and aerials into gunfire by holding the A button down. Yes, Joker's Eiha causes a curse status but in practice it is functionally similar to PK Fire and Elfire so this is just a marginal difference. I don't know how it benefits your argument to make such brazenly false claims that can be disproven within seconds. It just makes it seem like you don't play Smash at all.

Anyways, here's the problem with Erdrick: Erdrick was designed to be unique in his own game. He wasn't designed to stand out among other video game protagonists, he was designed for his own game where he stands out as a unique character. In Smash he does NOT stand out as a unique character because several other characters are already using his exact gimmick and very similar design cues. Characters like F-Type, Bub and Bob, Bomberman, etc. naturally stand out because their designs are extremely varied to give them unique personalities. They aren't meant to carry the torch of their genres like Erdrick is so they are naturally less generic because of it. The diversity of designs is supposed to be what makes Smash fun, not the celebrity status of certain characters.

 

[xpnc]

I see no functional difference between Erdrick as a character and Erdrick as a Mii costume, especially considering it seems a chibi Erdrick is more likely. There is nothing that sets him apart from generic swordsman by design.

 

[LeafMB]

I take everyone who is standing against Dragon Quest because it is a series "unknown" in the west are also absolutely not supporting Banjo in any manner, right? That no one on the Banjo thread, for example, is dreading or badmouthing DQ in E3 because no one in the US knows it.

Because the data tells another tale.

Of course, to me, it is not a problem. I do not make Smash a simple popularity contest, and even if I did, I would not do it while paradoxically supporting characters that are kinda niche while deluding myself my niche is not only acceptable but that it is no niche at all, and would be the hypest most profitable reveal.

Post

We should assume Erdrick could come in with his NES look, as all NES icons so far have used their NES designs. If that is the case, wouldn't that make his silhouette unique? The only one close to it would be Young Link, but he is no closer in shape to Erdrick than he is to, uh, let's say... Lip. And wouldn't it be fun for all those people who have memories of playing Dragon Warrior on their NES to have that moment of Nintendo history in their Nintendo crossover game? Its a game so fondly remembered, including by Sakurai and many other game devs.

 

[Perkilator]

I... wow. Have you even played this game for ONE second? I'm wondering if you've even bothered to check if your claims could be disproven within seconds of booting the game up:

I guess I'm just imagining Isabelle using the fishing rod as a tether grab. Likewise I'm imagining Bayonetta's B special as well as her ability to cancel any of her jabs and aerials into gunfire by holding the A button down. Yes, Joker's Eiha causes a curse status but in practice it is functionally similar to PK Fire and Elfire so this is just a marginal difference. I don't know how it benefits your argument to make such brazenly false claims that can be disproven within seconds. It just makes it seem like you don't play Smash at all.

Anyways, here's the problem with Erdrick: Erdrick was designed to be unique in his own game. He wasn't designed to stand out among other video game protagonists, he was designed for his own game where he stands out as a unique character. In Smash he does NOT stand out as a unique character because several other characters are already using his exact gimmick and very similar design cues. Characters like F-Type, Bub and Bob, Bomberman, etc. naturally stand out because their designs are extremely varied to give them unique personalities. They aren't meant to carry the torch of their genres like Erdrick is so they are naturally less generic because of it. The diversity of designs is supposed to be what makes Smash fun, not the celebrity status of certain characters.

Okay, so I got that part wrong. But I never knew about that function, okay? I'm not just spouting BS for no reason.

Also, here is some OTHER stuff you got wrong: Bayonetta can cancel her jabs into gunfire, but she can't jump around while firing her gun.

 

[Namasura]

I see no functional difference between Erdrick as a character and Erdrick as a Mii costume, especially considering it seems a chibi Erdrick is more likely. There is nothing that sets him apart from generic swordsman by design.

He has some similarities, but he has his differences and to me these differences matter. I want to cast Zoom and Sizzle, I want to use the thunder powers of the Sword of Kings, I want my Dragon Quest level up sound when I win battles and I want the music, the sound effects from the game, I want the spirit battles with clever DQ jokes, I want the Alefgard level. I don't want the mii costume treatment for the same reason you likely think Geno just as Mii Gunner wasn't enough.

 

[Deleted member]

Who is Erdrick

 

[AEMehr]

Erdrick and Joker represent to me a cancer that is killing Smash. I don't care about what game he's from or who designed him, I care more about the fact that Smash has forgotten about fun for the sake of popularity.

Smash's head has disappeared up its own *** because it has hyped itself up to unwarranted levels of self importance. It thinks of itself as the most important game of all games and that getting into Smash is a PRESTIGIOUS and SUPER IMPORTANT event that every game developer would give their left arm to be in. And the worst part is that this is completely undermined by nobody characters who contribute nothing particularly interesting or unique to gameplay and are just there because they're "popular". Joker is the ur-example of this: he was hyped up ever since December as being representative of what kinds of characters to expect in the Smash DLC, and then he came out, and my initial assessment of him turned out to be right. He is completely banal and uninteresting in EVERY respect - he doesn't bring anything unique to the table and his design in of itself is super bland. He has Bayonetta's guns, he has Robin's fireball, and he has Isabelle's fishing hook, except it shoots upwards. And to top it all off he has a variant of Cloud's limit break mechanic. WOW! This is really the character they made us anticipate for months. Joker is the worst, because he proves that you don't have to be a fun, good, unique character to get into Smash - having a spirit of fun is no longer a consideration. All that matters is that you have a modicum of popularity.

You may not agree with me that his design is as uninteresting as I made it out to be. But that doesn't matter - he got in because his game is popular in Japan. So Erdrick, if he gets in, is going to be the same thing. Newcomer that just gets in because he's popular, and that's all - whether or not he turns out to be fun or unique is completely moot. Being a fun and unique character is of secondary importance if it has ANY importance at all because the first thing that's important is this "cult of personality" stupidity where having a sort of celebrity status matters more than being a quality character. So instead of additions that are added in the spirit of fun (just as an example, say, F-Type, or Bub and Bob from Bubble Bobble, who easily lend themselves to unique gameplay and have way more interesting designs), we get another sword character who might as well be from the same game as the dozen other sword characters that are in the game already. But maybe, he shoots TWO fireballs! Or maybe he shoots TWO arrows instead of one! Who cares, what matters is not how he plays, but rather how popular he is in one region. I could be wrong about Erdrick, but I strongly doubt I will be. Just judging from his appearance and my knowledge of the game he's from (basically being THE textbook JRPG from which all others draw their gameplay inspiration), he will bring absolutely nothing new to the table. Just like my assessment of Joker being completely bland and uninteresting turned out to be right, I'm predicting the same thing for Erdrick. If I'm wrong and he turns out to be unique and fun, good! But if not, oh well, it doesn't matter, because he's popular and that's what matters. And therein lies the problem. Erdrick's design does not lend itself well to a unique or fun moveset. Characters designed in the spirit of fun - I.E. ones who are vastly different from each other in silhouette and function - should be the priority. The wacky and outlandish characters are the ones that make these games enjoyable. Not characters like Joker and Erdrick who are made exclusively to pander to a disjointed fanbase.

This is just one of many reasons Smash is acidic. It's basically run itself into a corner. Just because a character is popular doesn't mean they're good. I think that maybe the decisons as to who gets in Smash SHOULDN'T be made by fans. It should be made by people who care more about the quality of the game's life and haven't lost sight of why people play these games. So, in other words, not Sakurai.

To call Joker uninteresting/not unique is grossly overlooking the unique utility all of his tools have.
Obviously there are some similarities between some attacks amongst other fighters in the roster, but the combination and unique attributes of these tools are what makes the fighter unique. The concept of Bayonetta's Bullet Arts are condensed into a neutral special, yes, but the interesting part of the move comes from the movement options integrated into it. Which allows Joker to have unique special dash options on top of the easier forward/backward/jump inputs.
Eiha/Eiagon do not have the same role in Joker's moveset compared to PK Fire and Arcfire. Eiha especially is something you toss out very sparingly, the reward for landing it is much much less than for the other three specials mentioned before.
Grappling Hook is more Vine Whip than anything, but again the way the move is designed is similar only in terms of recovery (even then Ivysaur has Joker beat hard there). Any on stage use is vastly different, even dependent on you and your opponent's state.

I'm sure you understand the gist of where I'm going for this, so I'll just say that overall gameplay is king. If you want to boil down what you see in a trailer to "this literally looks like that" I can't stop you. Thinking something looks boring/bland is subjective.
But if you play the character you will very quickly notice that the character still provides a unique experience only they can offer.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I
We should assume Erdrick could come in with his NES look, as all NES icons so far have used their NES designs. If that is the case, wouldn't that make his silhouette unique? The only one close to it would be Young Link, but he is no closer in shape to Erdrick than he is to, uh, let's say... Lip. And wouldn't it be fun for all those people who have memories of playing Dragon Warrior on their NES to have that moment of Nintendo history in their Nintendo crossover game? Its a game so fondly remembered, including by Sakurai and many other game devs.

So he's a stumpy kid with a sword and shield. So just like Young Link.

Just stop. Erdrick is not a unique character, especially not in Smash. His design is already over-represented in Smash and doesn't need to be in the game. "Wouldn't it be fun for all those people who have memories of Dragon Warrior"? Yeah, wouldn't it be fun for all those people who have memories of Panel de Pon or Bomberman? The same argument applies to all those other people. This is a non-argument. Erdrick is unique in his own game, he would not be unique in Smash, he would be quite common.

Also, here is some OTHER stuff you got wrong: Bayonetta can cancel her jabs into gunfire, but she can't jump around while firing her gun.

Again, wrong. All her aerials are cancellable into gunfire. Maybe play the game once?

To call Joker uninteresting/not unique is grossly overlooking the unique utility all of his tools have.
Obviously there are some similarities between some attacks amongst other fighters in the roster, but the combination and unique attributes of these tools are what makes the fighter unique. The concept of Bayonetta's Bullet Arts are condensed into a neutral special, yes, but the interesting part of the move comes from the movement options integrated into it. Which allows Joker to have unique special dash options on top of the easier forward/backward/jump inputs.
Eiha/Eiagon do not have the same role in Joker's moveset compared to PK Fire and Arcfire. Eiha especially is something you toss out very sparingly, the reward for landing it is much much less than for the other three specials mentioned before.
Grappling Hook is more Vine Whip than anything, but again the way the move is designed is similar only in terms of recovery (even then Ivysaur has Joker beat hard there). Any on stage use is vastly different, even dependent on you and your opponent's state.

I'm sure you understand the gist of where I'm going for this, so I'll just say that overall gameplay is king. If you want to boil down what you see in a trailer to "this literally looks like that" I can't stop you. Thinking something looks boring/bland is subjective.
But if you play the character you will very quickly notice that the character still provides a unique experience only they can offer.

Again, I've played the character and it reaffirms my statement that he is completely bland and uninteresting in every way, and all his moves are functions that exist on other characters with very slight alterations. There is nothing unique or interesting about Joker and he is only in to appease the Persona fans who are embedded in the "cult of personality" aspect that I mentioned before - he's in because his game sold well in Japan, not because he brings anything unique to the table. The quality of these characters is washed out in favor of popularity. I said myself that gameplay is king, and Joker does not offer interesting gameplay, he just offers fanservice to people who like Persona. ALL of Joker's kit is stuff we've seen before and have come to expect.

The same absolutely will be true of Erdrick if he gets in, he is going to be another sword function in a game full of sword functions, but you think that's justified as long as he has a projectile that's very marginally different from Link's projectiles.

 

[Perkilator]

So he's a stumpy kid with a sword and shield. So just like Young Link.

Just stop. Erdrick is not a unique character, especially not in Smash. His design is already over-represented in Smash and doesn't need to be in the game. "Wouldn't it be fun for all those people who have memories of Dragon Warrior"? Yeah, wouldn't it be fun for all those people who have memories of Panel de Pon or Bomberman? The same argument applies to all those other people. This is a non-argument. Erdrick is unique in his own game, he would not be unique in Smash, he would be quite common.



Again, wrong. All her aerials are cancellable into gunfire. Maybe play the game once?



Again, I've played the character and it reaffirms my statement that he is completely bland and uninteresting in every way, and all his moves are functions that exist on other characters with very slight alterations. There is nothing unique or interesting about Joker and he is only in to appease the Persona fans who are embedded in the "cult of personality" aspect that I mentioned before - he's in because his game sold well in Japan, not because he brings anything unique to the table. The quality of these characters is washed out in favor of popularity. I said myself that gameplay is king, and Joker does not offer interesting gameplay, he just offers fanservice to people who like Persona. ALL of Joker's kit is stuff we've seen before and have come to expect.

The same absolutely will be true of Erdrick if he gets in, he is going to be another sword function in a game full of sword functions, but you think that's justified as long as he has a projectile that's very marginally different from Link's projectiles.

That's not the same as being able to jump off the ground as you fire away. Then again, I dont play as Bayonetta enough in Ultimate.

You know what? Let's take a rain check on this arguement. This thread's meant to be about Erdrick, and...I kinda derailed it.

 

[AEMehr]

Again, I've played the character and it reaffirms my statement that he is completely bland and uninteresting in every way, and all his moves are functions that exist on other characters with very slight alterations. There is nothing unique or interesting about Joker and he is only in to appease the Persona fans who are embedded in the "cult of personality" aspect that I mentioned before - he's in because his game sold well in Japan, not because he brings anything unique to the table. The quality of these characters is washed out in favor of popularity. I said myself that gameplay is king, and Joker does not offer interesting gameplay, he just offers fanservice to people who like Persona. ALL of Joker's kit is stuff we've seen before and have come to expect.

The same absolutely will be true of Erdrick if he gets in, he is going to be another sword function in a game full of sword functions, but you think that's justified as long as he has a projectile that's very marginally different from Link's projectiles.

Again, if you want to think that way think it. I'm not going to change your subjective/negative mindset.

In a title with 80 characters you're going to see some overlap, it's unavoidable. You can choose to focus your energy into disliking every little similarity if you want, personally I just think that's a big waste of time, but whether you think the moveset is fun to play or not is, again, your opinion. I think Joker is neat, not really a character for me, but I appreciate the way you utilize his kit. Aside from drag-down up air, the character feels vastly different from the characters he draws inspiration from. The mere existence of Arsene is something wholly unique to him, are there any other fighters that has literally every attack altered (with the exception of get up/grab related attacks) upon filling an in-game requirement?
- - - - -
Maybe Gohan with a Sword will follow suit as you said, draw inspiration/ideas from different fighters to create something new. Maybe he'll have something that's wholly unique to him.

But to gauge their worth before you even know they're in the game is a bit silly. I can understand having no interest in their game or character, but you should start judging what they offer when you have gameplay to look at.

 

[The DanMan051]

Erdrick and Joker represent to me a cancer that is killing Smash. I don't care about what game he's from or who designed him, I care more about the fact that Smash has forgotten about fun for the sake of popularity.

Smash's head has disappeared up its own *** because it has hyped itself up to unwarranted levels of self importance. It thinks of itself as the most important game of all games and that getting into Smash is a PRESTIGIOUS and SUPER IMPORTANT event that every game developer would give their left arm to be in. And the worst part is that this is completely undermined by nobody characters who contribute nothing particularly interesting or unique to gameplay and are just there because they're "popular". Joker is the ur-example of this: he was hyped up ever since December as being representative of what kinds of characters to expect in the Smash DLC, and then he came out, and my initial assessment of him turned out to be right. He is completely banal and uninteresting in EVERY respect - he doesn't bring anything unique to the table and his design in of itself is super bland. He has Bayonetta's guns, he has Robin's fireball, and he has Isabelle's fishing hook, except it shoots upwards. And to top it all off he has a variant of Cloud's limit break mechanic. WOW! This is really the character they made us anticipate for months. Joker is the worst, because he proves that you don't have to be a fun, good, unique character to get into Smash - having a spirit of fun is no longer a consideration. All that matters is that you have a modicum of popularity.

You may not agree with me that his design is as uninteresting as I made it out to be. But that doesn't matter - he got in because his game is popular in Japan. So Erdrick, if he gets in, is going to be the same thing. Newcomer that just gets in because he's popular, and that's all - whether or not he turns out to be fun or unique is completely moot. Being a fun and unique character is of secondary importance if it has ANY importance at all because the first thing that's important is this "cult of personality" stupidity where having a sort of celebrity status matters more than being a quality character. So instead of additions that are added in the spirit of fun (just as an example, say, F-Type, or Bub and Bob from Bubble Bobble, who easily lend themselves to unique gameplay and have way more interesting designs), we get another sword character who might as well be from the same game as the dozen other sword characters that are in the game already. But maybe, he shoots TWO fireballs! Or maybe he shoots TWO arrows instead of one! Who cares, what matters is not how he plays, but rather how popular he is in one region. I could be wrong about Erdrick, but I strongly doubt I will be. Just judging from his appearance and my knowledge of the game he's from (basically being THE textbook JRPG from which all others draw their gameplay inspiration), he will bring absolutely nothing new to the table. Just like my assessment of Joker being completely bland and uninteresting turned out to be right, I'm predicting the same thing for Erdrick. If I'm wrong and he turns out to be unique and fun, good! But if not, oh well, it doesn't matter, because he's popular and that's what matters. And therein lies the problem. Erdrick's design does not lend itself well to a unique or fun moveset. Characters designed in the spirit of fun - I.E. ones who are vastly different from each other in silhouette and function - should be the priority. The wacky and outlandish characters are the ones that make these games enjoyable. Not characters like Joker and Erdrick who are made exclusively to pander to a disjointed fanbase.

This is just one of many reasons Smash is acidic. It's basically run itself into a corner. Just because a character is popular doesn't mean they're good. I think that maybe the decisons as to who gets in Smash SHOULDN'T be made by fans. It should be made by people who care more about the quality of the game's life and haven't lost sight of why people play these games. So, in other words, not Sakurai.

This... is the longest piece of irate hogwash I've ever bothered to sit down and read in my life.

It's painful.

You know what, I'm gonna make a checklist:
>Complains that Smash has gotten worse with more characters: check.
>Complains about Joker: check.
>Equates moves with broadly similar animations as being the exact same thing: check.
>Claims only Japanese popularity matters: check. (Like seriously, how big of a rock do you have to live under to have completely missed the Persona 5 hype? It was freaking nominated for GOTY at the VGAs in the same year that had Breath of the Wild and SMO).
>Claims that a super old/obscure character should be added: check.
>Selectively complains that characters bring nothing new to the table: check.
>Complains about sword users: check.
>******* about Sakurai: check.
>Complains about characters being chosen because of popularity and then turns around and says those characters don't appeal to the people who play the game: check.

You're one of those people who got pissed over "Everyone is Here", aren't you?

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Imagine trampling all over a fanbase’s hopes just because you don’t like a character.