Why do you, personally, play a high-/top-tier?

[choknater]

haha

threads like this make me miss cool things that no one does anymore with low tiers, like GERM' bair -> jab jab -> grab

and park's yoshi holy ****

 

[odinNJ]

I don't understand the minds of scrubs. They think Marth is bad... Why

 

[Kal]

I play Zelda as my main because I sincerely feel that she is my best chance at victory against better players.

However, I do enjoy playing Fox, Sheik, and I have a deep and thorough understanding of Marth as well. These characters are different from Zelda in that they offer me the ability to beat my opponent so long as I can out-think them. With Zelda, I can lose to mediocre players purely on her inability to beat better characters regardless of thought input. At some point, the character is just too limited to overcome the technical barrier.

This seems a little contradictory to me. You think Zelda is your best shot at victory, but you acknowledge that a player does not really need to out-think you in order to win. But, if you use Fox, Sheik or Marth, you can beat your opponent as long as you can out-think them. So why do you think Zelda is your best shot at winning?

Sorry if this seems confrontational. I'm just curious.

 

[choknater]

could be a thing about mains and comfort zones

no matter how much i try hard with other characters, ice climbers are always my best lol

 

[Kyandid]

It feels a lot easier for me to improve on a high tier character.

When I **** up on Falco or Captain, I can see and feel what I did wrong. It's really easy for me to notice my mistakes, and there's a much bigger community behind these characters to steal strategies from. When I **** up as Link or Ness, sometimes I really have no idea what I could've done better.

EDIT: Falco and Samus are gangsters anyways. I'd play them even if they sucked.

 

[LLDL]

I play falco because he's fun, it has nothing to do with the tier list, and I don't even agree with his placement on the tier list anyway.

 

[Omni]

Smash News: http://www.smashboards.com/misc.php?do=news&id=322027

Added a poll!

Personally, I play top tier characters for two reasons:

1.) I like to win.
2.) I like to have fun.

Winning and having fun tend to go hand-in-hand for me due to my highly competitive nature. However, I also have to have fun playing a top tier. Fox in Melee and Meta Knight in Brawl do both of that for me.

 

[Beat!]

I play falco because he's fun, it has nothing to do with the tier list, and I don't even agree with his placement on the tier list anyway.

Where do you think he should be?

 

[The Cutting Edge]

Falco is combo and gimp fodder. 3rd or 4th imo

And who does he beat? Captain Falcon. Anyone else?

 

[LLDL]

I think he should be a bit lower. While he does have the tools to shut people down, I rarely see any falco player doing well unless they are like pro to top pro, or if the other players suck.

 

[oukd]

@poll - playing whatever character you like doesn't mean you don't play top tiers <_< some people play exclusively top tiers "for fun" or use them as the pool of "whatever character they want to play" and aren't aware (on a conscious level at least) that they do so to win. obviously everyone enjoys winning and winning is the goal of the game, but there's a difference between people who focus on winning ("whatever it takes") and those who focus on playing ("I play for fun").

so i don't think adding 'i don't' is really appropriate for the 2nd selection. not that it makes a huge difference

 

[Kyandid]

I think he should be a bit lower. While he does have the tools to shut people down, I rarely see any falco player doing well unless they are like pro to top pro, or if the other players suck.

But isn't that what the tier list is there for? Judging top-tier, competitive characters, and nothing else?

 

[LLDL]

That's exactly what it's for, but I've never seen any player justify his placement in a tournament setting, which of course leads me to question said placement. For example, PP probably plays the most efficient Falco EVER, albit lacking in some areas, but looking at his and other top falcos performance against characters lower on the tier list, even struggling (keeping in mind how efficient the players are) makes me be doubtful of how godlike falco really is.

 

[Metakill]

I play Fox because I find it like a challenge to get better with the best and more technical char in the game and play Marth because it's my favorite in terms of moveset

 

[Beat!]

I think he should be a bit lower. While he does have the tools to shut people down, I rarely see any falco player doing well unless they are like pro to top pro, or if the other players suck.

Yeah, I agree.

For the record, I think he should be 3rd or 4th (so same as you, Cutting Edge). Probably 4th in NTSC and 3rd in PAL.

 

[Omni]

@poll - playing whatever character you like doesn't mean you don't play top tiers <_< some people play exclusively top tiers "for fun" or use them as the pool of "whatever character they want to play" and aren't aware (on a conscious level at least) that they do so to win. obviously everyone enjoys winning and winning is the goal of the game, but there's a difference between people who focus on winning ("whatever it takes") and those who focus on playing ("I play for fun").

so i don't think adding 'i don't' is really appropriate for the 2nd selection. not that it makes a huge difference

Good point and well said.

 

[Ariyo]

Falcon 2 fast

 

[Blacknight99923]

I play top tiers because I like them more.

I like having more options, and I feel like I'm not playing the game to its fullest if i'm not using them.


conversely I also dislike low tier match ups because of it. I don't feel like they are particularly deep and I find them unenjoyable. Its not to say that I dislike playing mid and low tier characters, but I don't want to devote considerable amounts of time into them.

 

[Zeta145]

Since the beginning of brawl I used MK, Falco, and diddy. I didn't know they were gonna be high tier. I'm so sorry :'(

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

Since the beginning of brawl I used MK, Falco, and diddy. I didn't know they were gonna be high tier. I'm so sorry :'(

You sir are going to receive some verbal abuse for talking about brawl.
Not from me but from someone

 

[Rostigalen]

Back in 2005 or so I realized that Doctor Mario, Ness, Samus and Ice Climbers had pretty rad physics. I gradually stopped playing everyone but Doctor Mario, then I quit Smash only to return in 2009, still feeling that Doctor Mario had such smooth physics that came naturally to me.

Recently I've picked up a Falco that I'm alternating my Doc with. I came to realize that Doc didn't have the tools that I needed in all match-ups and that I probably underperformed. Falco isn't feeling as natural, but it's fun to win a few sets every once in a while...

 

[Kyandid]

You sir are going to receive some verbal abuse for talking about brawl.
Not from me but from someone

Personally, I think it's more upsetting that he's playing Diddy Kong bananas than Brawl.

 

[Omni]

Let's keep Melee vs. Brawl out of the discussion, people.

The topic is about tiers.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't like any of the Melee High tier characters safe for Jiggz (a little). Wish I was better with Marth and / or Falco though. Oh, and Samus. Don't like any other high tier character, so I will keep with DK and Mewtwo.

 

[Zanx8]

I play Peach just because I love the character and she is tons of fun to me

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

That's exactly what it's for, but I've never seen any player justify his placement in a tournament setting, which of course leads me to question said placement. For example, PP probably plays the most efficient Falco EVER, albit lacking in some areas, but looking at his and other top falcos performance against characters lower on the tier list, even struggling (keeping in mind how efficient the players are) makes me be doubtful of how godlike falco really is.

Dude, Falco is reallllllllllllly ****ing good lol

Also, the group of players I always see get good the fastest are Falco players.

 

[Lukingordex]

I really do not care about tiers,but at the first time when I locked one,I was just scared.

But now I know how to accept my character´s disadvantages,and I will not give up on him only because of the tier.

 

[Omni]

I really do not care about tiers,but at the first time when I locked one,I was just scared.

But now I know how to accept my character´s disadvantages,and I will not give up on him only because of the tier.

This is a pretty awesome answer. I admire your stance alot.

 

[Dan Salvato]

What I'm trying to understand is exactly why top tiers are overwhelmingly popular. I think people pick up Fox, Falco, and Sheik starting from a non-competitive level because they "feel" nice to play. Others might have been inspired by the pros who play the same characters. Others, still, could simply be influenced by the incredible amount of information, video footage, and conversation there is about the top tiers.

If Axe is so freaking good, why are there not more Pikachus?

 

[john!]

What I'm trying to understand is exactly why top tiers are overwhelmingly popular. I think people pick up Fox, Falco, and Sheik starting from a non-competitive level because they "feel" nice to play. Others might have been inspired by the pros who play the same characters. Others, still, could simply be influenced by the incredible amount of information, video footage, and conversation there is about the top tiers.

If Axe is so freaking good, why are there not more Pikachus?

people have fun when they win. winning is usually easier with top tier characters, even at casual levels of play.

 

[Omni]

What I'm trying to understand is exactly why top tiers are overwhelmingly popular. I think people pick up Fox, Falco, and Sheik starting from a non-competitive level because they "feel" nice to play. Others might have been inspired by the pros who play the same characters. Others, still, could simply be influenced by the incredible amount of information, video footage, and conversation there is about the top tiers.

If Axe is so freaking good, why are there not more Pikachus?

You definitely answered most of your question just there.

Tiers are based on how well a tool accomplishes a common goal: Winning. Many people play competitive games for different reasons, but one thing all players love to do is win. Winning or beating your opponent becomes a motivation factor to choose a tool that helps you accomplish this the best.

When I play a fighting game I think about it like this: Say you enter an arena. You enter the floor and on your table there are a large array of weapons. Knives, pistols, rocket launchers, etc. The arena awards prizes to the winner. So in my head I scan the table for the best weapons and simply ignore the less viable weapons.

In Axe's case, he brought a knife to a gun fight. Before the metagame progressed people felt like this was suicide. However, Axe was able to master his knife to do things common knives can't do like... deflect bullets. His skill with the knife is unrivaled and he has learned how to combat the more stronger weapons. The thing is, it takes a lot of time and dedication to master a tool like a knife and be able to enter a gun fight and win. It is not an easy task at all, but it is more than possible.

This is why there are not that many Axe's. This is also why there are a lot of high tier users. Ease of use. Achieving a novelty status like Axe or Armada is very difficult.

 

[Bing]

Dude, Falco is reallllllllllllly ****ing good lol

Also, the group of players I always see get good the fastest are Falco players.

I agree, I think its because Falco is high in demand in terms of tech skill, but also has his huge combo game. So while he's not as technically demanding as Fox, it forces players to be technical but still have other options to become successful

 

[Lukingordex]

It is fun to win.

And win with a Low tier is a lot more fun!!!

 

[Chico113]

i play as falco because i always played as him in startfox 64 MP in the late 90s with friends. i don't really care about tier or advantages. im a casual smash player since 2001 and i just play for fun.

 

[Dan Salvato]

You definitely answered most of your question just there.

Tiers are based on how well a tool accomplishes a common goal: Winning. Many people play competitive games for different reasons, but one thing all players love to do is win. Winning or beating your opponent becomes a motivation factor to choose a tool that helps you accomplish this the best.

When I play a fighting game I think about it like this: Say you enter an arena. You enter the floor and on your table there are a large array of weapons. Knives, pistols, rocket launchers, etc. The arena awards prizes to the winner. So in my head I scan the table for the best weapons and simply ignore the less viable weapons.

In Axe's case, he brought a knife to a gun fight. Before the metagame progressed people felt like this was suicide. However, Axe was able to master his knife to do things common knives can't do like... deflect bullets. His skill with the knife is unrivaled and he has learned how to combat the more stronger weapons. The thing is, it takes a lot of time and dedication to master a tool like a knife and be able to enter a gun fight and win. It is not an easy task at all, but it is more than possible.

This is why there are not that many Axe's. This is also why there are a lot of high tier users. Ease of use. Achieving a novelty status like Axe or Armada is very difficult.

That certainly bothers me a lot, since so much of the variety of Smash is lost simply because people want an easier time winning - according to that theory, anyway. But, having personally discovered the thrill of doing well with a low tier, I wish more people would seek that out.

 

[Omni]

That certainly bothers me a lot, since so much of the variety of Smash is lost simply because people want an easier time winning - according to that theory, anyway. But, having personally discovered the thrill of doing well with a low tier, I wish more people would seek that out.

Well, think of it this way.

Pursuing to master a non high-tier actually has very strong merits. I have played hundreds of Fox's, Falco's, Falcon's, Marth's, and Sheik's, etc. and have a large amount of experience against them. Pikachu? Not so much. Axe level Pikachu's? None at all. This puts Axe and any very strong mid/low tier main at a large advantage.

On one hand, that Pikachu has an extremely large amount of experience vs. the high tiers. However, the high tiers have little to no experice vs. a high-leveled Pikachu. Using a mid/low tier usually has very small returns early, but very large payoffs later.

Again, it takes a lot of hard work and a large amount of losses until you can finally transform a low/mid tier into an absolute monster.

tl;dr:

 

[wezai]

I never really cared about tiers, it was all about the characters <3 I knew which ones I wanted to main even before the game was released!

Fox: Star Fox 64 fan here.
Falco: See above. Also, I always thought that Falco is awesome. I definitely knew I was gonna play him when the game is out.
Sheik: What? I'll be able to play as a Sheikah? What, it's Zelda herself? Omg, can't wait for SSBM to get released.

I still stick to these 3 characters. Only downside is that they are way too mainstream! xD

 

[Hopland]

Sheik is a ninja.
Plus, chain for the win.

 

[Kal]

And Sheik is like two whole characters. When I had no idea how to play, I picked Zelda just so I could learn two characters at once. I thought it added a dimension of depth to my playstyle. Actually, it did. It just happens that, once you reach a certain skill point, Sheik overshadows Zelda in so many aspects that using Zelda becomes a painfully sub-optimal strategy.

Man, this game has some balance issues.

 

[SpeedyJ]

Because I enjoy playing them and they are easier to win with.

Spoiler

I know such a cliche answer right?

Don't get me wrong though, low tiers like Roy, Young Link and Mewtwo are fun too.