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yeh!!Charizard's aerial game is sweet, but his size doesn't help. His Nair is for when they are practically inside of you.
Haha! I loled pretty hard at that.Because they're one of em' crazy teenagers with their Hip hop and crazy ring tones. **** kids.
By the way, Charizard is slightly faster then Pikachu.
Yeah, well, you forgot Flamethrower and the grab game. In fact, Charizard's grab game is the most important strategy he has. Also, you are forgetting the double air jump, glide, and the fact that Fly has super armor. Yeah, the gimp thing, remember that Fair isn't Charizard's best Gimp move, Bair and Dair work much better.The main problem I find with Charizard is that he can't fight opponents directly below him worth ANYthing, particularly in the air. His down air and neutral air are really the only things that have a chance, and neither of them are exactly his most celebrated attacks by any stretch of the imagination.
And honestly, he can sometimes be more gimpable than Ivysaur; forward air and Rock Smash notwithstanding. His up B in particular needs to die. Any move in which you can hit them directly at 50% and they can recover and attack you back before you land needs to be reevaluated.
This isn't to say that Charizard is bad. But let's be serious about it. Ivysaur has got his projectile and disjointed hitboxes. Squirtle has his pokes and edge guarding. Charizard really has to count on his tilts and forward air (and the occasional prayer that the opponent is dumb enough to walking to a Rock Smash or forward smash attack), and is easily the most comboable of the three. I love Charizard, and he's always been one of my favorite Pokemon; but let's call a spade a spade here.
I didn't forget, I just didn't mention it. There are a lot of pros to Charizard, but I was focusing on his cons, which I believe outweigh them.Yeah, well, you forgot Flamethrower and the grab game. In fact, Charizard's grab game is the most important strategy he has.
Not gimping OTHERS. I mean Charizard HIMSELF can be extraordinarily easy to gimp by many characters, and when he's returning, his only real protection are his foward air, his turn-around back air, and his specials; none of which are particularly intimidating to the better gimpers out there. Heck even Mario can screw around with Charizard a lot of the time, and his gimping game has dropped like crazy since Melee.Also, you are forgetting the double air jump, glide, and the fact that Fly has super armor. Yeah, the gimp thing, remember that Fair isn't Charizard's best Gimp move, Bair and Dair work much better.
Uhh... what weaknesses does he have again? >_>Note that for the record, I myself have never once said (and certainly don't think) that Charizard sucks. But once again, his weaknesses are rather glaring.
Squirtle's the worst of the three, Ivysaur and Charizard are pretty close, so (until NSlider gets the matchup chart completed [NSlider, we need to talk about more characters, NOW!])I'm not entirely sure who's the better one (Hoping Charizard). The caught by the speedy (especially Metaknight, Shiek, ZSS, Fox, Cfalcon, and Sonic, who are faster than him in running speed) and the juggled easily are the glaring weakness. He is rather hard to gimp, his recovery is in fact above average and all his aerials (outside Dair, which isn't that good at defending yourself, but gimping) execute fast, which helps push anyone away. Not to mention fly, which has super armor (a move that prevents knockback, even from something as lethal as Marth's Final Smash [someone has done that, not sure where the video is, but there is a video somewhere]). Charizard's recovery is Above average (consider Falco's as average, it's above that at least) and the most glaring weakness is his size (I tried making a pros and cons thread, but the original purpose was rather stupid and it has died, I support any person who considers remaking it).Charizard loses to people who are fast and juggle heavies like Olimar.
He's good otherwise and I don't see him being gimped easily at all. Probably the worst out of the three, but he can get some good KO moves out there.
Neither of those statements are true. For one thing, the character never changed. He's always been the same. PERCEPTIONS of the character have changed.Yeah, unfortunately, that was the popular thought several months ago, before I joined, why do you think I made this thread? Times change, First Squirtle was the best, now he's the least reliable.
I don't remember Pokemon Trainer EVER being high tier.PT was destined to be high tier, and now Mid tier is rosy.
Again, I'm not interested in putting it up to a vote. That doesn't mean anything. Even if 500 people said that something was the case, it wouldn't make it so. If you say "Squirtle is unreliable because he can't do this and this," or "Squirtle is unreliable because characters can do this and this to him," that's one thing. But again, it is a logical fallacy to say "Squirtle is unreliable because people that use him say he is."Charizard was slow, and now we know for sure he's not. We know different things now than several months ago, and now if you ask most people here, they'll say something similar to what I said.
Is condescension what you resort to when you don't actually have something to say?And Orion, face it, perceptions do shift, yours of Squirtle hasn't shifted as fast.
What does this prove, exactly? Even Meta Knight has an even match-up against Yoshi because of his chain grab and grab release spike. Yoshi is by NO means the measuring stick of a "bad" character, and has several good match-ups. Although he's bottom tier, he's a PROVISIONALLY bottom tier (like Link) and is in no way helpless. I'm a Yoshi mainer (even more so than Pokemon Trainer), and I know all too well that Yoshi gets a lot of undeserved flack. The main thing going against him - like Link - is tournament results; not anything specifically terrible about the character itself or his match-ups.... Can we just say that Squirtle is not the best of the three, he outright fails to Yoshi, YOSHI! (Proof, go check the match-up thread)